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Don't get me wrong, I love that guy and I think it's boss he's been kicking ass in the Emperor's name for 1200+ years. But how has he not suffered from the Black Rage/Red Thirst? Shouldn't the BAs be studying him to see if they fix the gene seed with this guy?

 Kaiserbudheim wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I love that guy and I think it's boss he's been kicking ass in the Emperor's name for 1200+ years. But how has he not suffered from the Black Rage/Red Thirst? Shouldn't the BAs be studying him to see if they fix the gene seed with this guy?

He may simply be so damn stubborn and lucky to never be overtaken by the black rage. Also there are some BA characters who has survived BR, Mephiston is the most ridiculous example, having actually overcome the it, Lemartes another. I'd say it not that surprising if some 1500+ years old space marine with plot armor survives a plot device.

Dante is ancient by normal marine standards, but he isn't unique - back in 2nd edition Dante's Scout Sergeant was still alive and kicking and not frothing.

Maybe he has suffered from it but has it under control, GW constantly change fluff so it's possible

He's secretly an Ultramarine.

^ hahaha

Not all Blood Angels suffer the Black Rage. Its actually more common among the younger marines. If you survive to an old enough age you are probably not going to catch it at all.

Its like life expectancy. A person today may expect to live to 70, but if they make it to 70 the chance of them surviving into their 90s is greatly increased.


So with BAs it may be that if you make it past 200 the chance of you suffering the Black Rage is greatly reduced. Simply because you haven't fallen to it so far.

They would have no veteran marines capable of forming a coherent sentence otherwise...

 purplefood wrote:
They would have no veteran marines capable of forming a coherent sentence otherwise...

Funny, I never got the impression of "Frothing psychopaths," as in, World Eater style. More "Angry Marines' slightly more docile cousin who can't think past the rage and is driven by instinctual need to kill but can't still scream Praise the Emperor in battle."

 Deadshot wrote:
Funny, I never got the impression of "Frothing psychopaths".

But that's what they are if taken by the Black Rage - unstoppable psychotic killers. They might also drink the blood of fallen enemies if given a chance. The only officers with any chance of communicating orders to them are Chaplains (and some Sanguinary Priests). Death Company makes Khorne Berserkers - even Kharn - seem rational by comparison.

Ofc, the "normal" Blood Angels aren't that far gone. The so-called Red Thirst represents this on the tabletop - a unit might be so exited that they gain some nice USRs for close combat. But that's just a temporary taste of the full madness of the Black Rage - they'll calm down once the battle is over.

Spetulhu has it right. Read the Blood Angels novels if ya need a clearer depiction, but once they're gone to it they're usually gone past most communication.

Wasn't aware that there was like an age limit to catching the black rage

 Viersche wrote:
Wasn't aware that there was like an age limit to catching the black rage

And the fluff isn't discussing it, but it does seem reasonable considering the BA Codex. Tycho fell to it but only after being horribly disfigured in battle. In the BA Codex characters don't even have the Red Thirst rule. So it seems that those with the age and mental fortitude to resist might be almost totally resistant to the Black Rage. They're still aware of it and wish to not catch it, but they have the experience and power needed to ignore it when they feel a lust for blood.

Its not really an age limit, its just that the younger more hotblooded marines are more likely to lose control.

Once you have become tempered with experience you have more control and are less likely to fall to it. its still very much a possibility that you can fall, just less likely as you have learned to keep it in check.


The same thing goes for Space Wolves and the Wulfen.

Because Blood Angels have two themes, or a twin-theme.

There is the curse, the Black Rage, and how it slowly destroys the future of the Chapter.

There is, on the other hand, also the hope for salvation, the "golden", "noble" part of the army that stands opposite the "black", "savage" part. Dante is the classic embodiment of that theme (and the Sanguinary Guard/ Sanguinor expanded on it in the most recent Codex).

Viersche wrote:Wasn't aware that there was like an age limit to catching the black rage

GW fluff seems to suggest the opposite, so (once again) it may depend on which sources you are looking at.

"It is true that as a Blood Angel ages, as he sees more bloodshed and battle, he becomes more and more prone to the onset of the Black Rage."
- WD #261, Index Astartes : The Blood Angels [online backup]

To me, it seems more like a question of willpower, with Dante obviously being the one-in-a-thousand exception. The hero who embodies the "noble" theme that Zweischneid mentioned.

Remember that the blood angels have dreadnoughts who's pilots are far older than Dante. GW has also said that dreadnoughts suffer from the black rage just as normal blood angels.

BaconUprising wrote:
Remember that the blood angels have dreadnoughts who's pilots are far older than Dante. GW has also said that dreadnoughts suffer from the black rage just as normal blood angels.

If you're referring to the codex line about the Furioso's dating back to the time of the Heresy, keep in mind that it refers to the dreadnoughts themselves and not necessarily the marines interred in them. Dante is exceptionally old even among most dreadnoughts, its entirely possible that he is older than any of the marines in the Blood Angels' dreadnoughts.

Many chapters would have dreadnoughts older than Dante. Thats not really unique to the BAs.

Never said it was, the space wolves are renowned for their ancient dreads

Dante is 1100 years old. It is a query that is brought up in the codex, why he has not succumbed, and it just gives some ambiguous answer to why not, saying that it will be his duty to protect the Emperor in his most dire time of need, probably during the "end times".

Also, it is not a sure thing that marines fall to the black rage. Some are just more susceptible to it than others, due to either a weaker mind (as it is thought by some in the inquisition to be a stepping stone to chaos) or just get unlucky with their gene seed.

thetallestgiraffe wrote:
Dante is 1100 years old. It is a query that is brought up in the codex, why he has not succumbed, and it just gives some ambiguous answer to why not, saying that it will be his duty to protect the Emperor in his most dire time of need, probably during the "end times".

Actually, he's been Chapter Master for 1100 years. He's older than that.

Funnily enough, I noticed that the big rulebook (which is newer than the Codex) switches it back to being alive for 1100 years. So...does codex still override brb for fluff matters? :p

You can be Chapter Master for 2.000 years or longer, and still only have lived 1.100.
I mean, Dante surely travelled through the Warp a lot during his career, right? Where time is said to run faster?

Alternatively, Baal just has shorter years or a shorter calendar than Earth. It could be intentional that the BRB specifically says "1.100 standard Terran years".

There's no mention of him being tossed around in the warp, in which time runs randomly, not specifically faster. There are instances of people being lost in the warp and randomly appearing thousands of years later not knowing much time has passed.

I've never seen anything to indicate what a Baal year is, or that they refer to time in anything *but* standard terran years after you get past planet level time keeping.

Not "tossed". Travelling. Just going from point A to point B with his Marines, which means a lot of time spent in the Warp.

And I have heard that time can run into both directions (or not at all) and at varying speeds, but I believe the default was faster. Don't quote me on that, though, maybe I am misremembering, and as always it could simply depend on the source.

Either way, it'd be a sensible explanation to avoid a contradiction. We can probably take for granted that Dante did travel through the Warp, and did experience a time shift. Over a thousand years, I could see decades, even centuries accumulate.

Not that anyone has to adopt this theory, ofc.

I can't adopt that theory, there's simply nothing about Dante in particular to indicate he is anything but plain old.

 Super Ready wrote:
Funnily enough, I noticed that the big rulebook (which is newer than the Codex) switches it back to being alive for 1100 years. So...does codex still override brb for fluff matters? :p

he was named chapter master the moment he was born.

Or the fact that Lysander was stuck in the warp for a thousand years(after being named 1st captain) and then reemerged. And he says he cannot remember a time when Dante was not chapter master of the BAs.

One does not become 1st captain overnight. We are talking at least a couple centuries. So that means Dante has been Chapter Master for at least 1200ish years. A

One also doesn't become Chapter Master overnight. Again, a few hundred years.

So Dante has to be around 1500 years old.

Grey Templar wrote:One does not become 1st captain overnight. We are talking at least a couple centuries. [...] One also doesn't become Chapter Master overnight. Again, a few hundred years.

Seeing as Space Marines seem to live "only" for around 300 years ...

Of course it could be different for the Blood Angels, given their longevity, but it's not Codex Standard. And then there are always circumstances that could necessitate quick promotions, such as combat casualties (how many Marines actually retire instead of dying in battle?) and/or someone showing exceptional aptitude (for which Dante could apply, given the attributes accredited to him - unless that too is just hyperbole) and/or the old boss receiving a promotion into the Chapter's Death Company.

Grey Templar wrote:So Dante has to be around 1500 years old.

In that case you create a conflict of sources and will have to discard the fluff in the new rulebook as well as Codex AoD.

That being said, Lysander was not stuck in the warp for "a thousand years" - that's an oversimplification which makes the contradiction unavoidable. I have analysed the exact quotes here.