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Page 39, third Paragraph:

Note that, after an Independent Character joins a unit, that unit can move no further that movement phase.

 Jancoran wrote:
Page 39, third Paragraph:

Note that, after an Independent Character joins a unit, that unit can move no further that movement phase.

Thanks!

This might be the Speed Freek in me speaking, but I've always found Warbikes to be more attractive than Stormboyz. Faster with Turbo boost, consistant 4+ cover and 4+ armor, T5, Hammer of Wrath every time they get the charge, better guns...

The only thing Jump Infantry really has on bikes, besides being generally cheaper, is that they have to test for DT only if they start or land in it. So they could easily just jump over a forest while bikes have to go through it and risk DT or otherwise move around it which can be a hassle. Also, you can deep strike if you're feeling horny.

Although both units have to compete with my Ork air force as far as Fast Attack slot availability goes, which brings up probably the biggest issue with Stormboyz: FA slot competition.

Stormboyz have hammer of wrath as well, but they lack the cover and turboboost. And armor. Warbikes are terrible though since theyre expensive as hell for the same physical capability and only a little better shooting. Bikernobz are where its at, but thats a different foc.

I love stormboyz, but I never use them because almost all of my opponents have some kind of barrage pie plate. No more hiding behind terrain for me.

 Wilytank wrote:
Also, you can deep strike if you're feeling horny.

LOL

I wouldn't say stormboyz are terrible or useless. They are below the curve of what's good (especially with dakkajets sharing slots with them), but they still do what they are supposed to do.

Basically they are really fast slugga boyz, and that's not really that bad. Even though you have to decide whether you get the d6 extra or assault using hammer of wrath (no rokkit pack d6 when using the jump pack to assault rather than to move), it's still a lot of orks to the face faster than most armies are comfortable with. However, they are too expensive to be fielded in multiples and a single unit gets a huge "shoot me" sign attached to them, even when hugging cover. If you manage to keep them completely out of sight (for example, behind battle wagons), they are can be valuable asset.

Zagstruk makes his unit pretty much unremovable, slaughters anything in challenges, and is probably the last model in the game to be able to charge from reserves. However, he costs an arm and a leg and just adds even more points to a unit that's no better than slugga boyz(which in turn are inferior to shoota boyz).

While I wouldn't exactly advice to bring a unit of storm boyz to a tournament if you plan on winning, there are dozens of worse units in the codex. More than one unit is a wast of points though and will drop your model count too far for comfort.

I'll retract my statement.

 Wilytank wrote:
This might be the Speed Freek in me speaking, but I've always found Warbikes to be more attractive than Stormboyz. Faster with Turbo boost, consistant 4+ cover and 4+ armor, T5, Hammer of Wrath every time they get the charge, better guns...

Their also 25 points per model. Owch.
Sure, they get a 4+ armor save. They get a hammer of wrath. But they just don't have the numbers or leadership to do the job.

If they were 18 points, I would grab em up like hotcakes, but 25 points is to expensive for what they deliver.

Agreed with labmouse.

25pts, and when people run them you never see groups larger than 8 due to the cost, and limitations prevent the orkyness of hording up (max numbers being so low). Theyre single wound models that cost 4 times that of a normal boy for little gain. Random heavy flamer will remove them from the board, or god forbid a baleflamer.

Stormboyz in comparison are better because they atleast are only ~2x the cost of boyz and retain the reason for the cost bump - speed. I want to run a speedfreek list using Wazdakka purely because its an orky tradition and i have a badass custom built wazdakka model i'd like to field AS wazdakka for a change, but in any even remotely competitive game i'll never even glance at warbikers but i have glanced at stormboyz many times...just didnt have the points to spare.

I've run bikers in big groups and done just fine with them.

What I haven't done is face Tau with such a list. Flamers I can handle easily, but no-cover shooting from the other side of the board is like paper to the warbikers rock

 Jancoran wrote:
Page 39, third Paragraph:

Note that, after an Independent Character joins a unit, that unit can move no further that movement phase.

So after the movement phase is the assault phase. so they can still assault with the unit they joined correct?

 Icculus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Page 39, third Paragraph:

Note that, after an Independent Character joins a unit, that unit can move no further that movement phase.

So after the movement phase is the assault phase. so they can still assault with the unit they joined correct?

thanks for listing page ref janco!

I interpret it that you can Icculus! (and what my little diagram was based on)... never knew the bit about the movement phase though! pretty crazy! Who knows though? Maybe my tactic is a no-go! (though I think it is still legal honestly!)

skyfi wrote:

 Icculus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Page 39, third Paragraph:

Note that, after an Independent Character joins a unit, that unit can move no further that movement phase.

So after the movement phase is the assault phase. so they can still assault with the unit they joined correct?

thanks for listing page ref janco!

I interpret it that you can Icculus! (and what my little diagram was based on)... never knew the bit about the movement phase though! pretty crazy! Who knows though? Maybe my tactic is a no-go! (though I think it is still legal honestly!)

Yeah I think the tactic still makes sense.

1. Deep strike stormboyz between HQ and target
2. Move HQ 6in. to stormboyz unit, joining them
end move phase.
begin assault phase
1. Assault new unit of stormboyz/HQ to target

 Icculus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Page 39, third Paragraph:

Note that, after an Independent Character joins a unit, that unit can move no further that movement phase.

So after the movement phase is the assault phase. so they can still assault with the unit they joined correct?

Yes they can assault according to the normal rules on assaulting. But it means you need to always move the unit he's going to join BEFORE you move him/her to join it. This makes a difference in certain circumstances, such as certain Psyker blessings/Maledictions, and certainly in terms of positioning him since you cant move through friendly or enemy models, ever.etc...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Icculus wrote:

skyfi wrote:

 Icculus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Page 39, third Paragraph:

Note that, after an Independent Character joins a unit, that unit can move no further that movement phase.

So after the movement phase is the assault phase. so they can still assault with the unit they joined correct?

thanks for listing page ref janco!

I interpret it that you can Icculus! (and what my little diagram was based on)... never knew the bit about the movement phase though! pretty crazy! Who knows though? Maybe my tactic is a no-go! (though I think it is still legal honestly!)

Yeah I think the tactic still makes sense.

1. Deep strike stormboyz between HQ and target
2. Move HQ 6in. to stormboyz unit, joining them
end move phase.
begin assault phase
1. Assault new unit of stormboyz/HQ to target

And no you cannot assault after you deep strike unless you are a Vanguard Veteran.

 Jancoran wrote:

 Icculus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Page 39, third Paragraph:

Note that, after an Independent Character joins a unit, that unit can move no further that movement phase.

So after the movement phase is the assault phase. so they can still assault with the unit they joined correct?

Yes they can assault according to the normal rules on assaulting. But it means you need to always move the unit he's going to join BEFORE you move him/her to join it. This makes a difference in certain circumstances, such as certain Psyker blessings/Maledictions, and certainly in terms of positioning him since you cant move through friendly or enemy models, ever.etc...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Icculus wrote:

skyfi wrote:

 Icculus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Page 39, third Paragraph:

Note that, after an Independent Character joins a unit, that unit can move no further that movement phase.

So after the movement phase is the assault phase. so they can still assault with the unit they joined correct?

thanks for listing page ref janco!

I interpret it that you can Icculus! (and what my little diagram was based on)... never knew the bit about the movement phase though! pretty crazy! Who knows though? Maybe my tactic is a no-go! (though I think it is still legal honestly!)

Yeah I think the tactic still makes sense.

1. Deep strike stormboyz between HQ and target
2. Move HQ 6in. to stormboyz unit, joining them
end move phase.
begin assault phase
1. Assault new unit of stormboyz/HQ to target

And no you cannot assault after you deep strike unless you are a Vanguard Veteran.

Or have the stormboyz Zaggstrukk in the squad. C'mon man, youve got an ork avatar. you cant forget about Zagstruk! he allows you to assault on a deep strike!

I know. Zagstrukk is for the win. Not many people use him though. Oh and ironically, I dont own any orks. hehehehe.

Well, that's just tricksy then.

But yes, I suppose it should be clarified that for that tactic to work, you must use Zagstruk. you will also lose d3 boys in the process.

It says ZAG + boys on the damn diagram guys! Lol

well that being said: it's not an extremely easy to read deal on some computer screens

My apologies it was just a quick sketch done a long time ago as an example as why stormboys don't suck/a tricksy way to use them.

In any event, might just use stormboys +zag next game for some fun

Zag is a beast. I really like him. He's pretty pricey but the ability to strike at i4 on charge with a PK makes him ferocious vs alot of targets!

skyfi wrote:
My apologies it was just a quick sketch done a long time ago as an example as why stormboys don't suck/a tricksy way to use them.

In any event, might just use stormboys +zag next game for some fun

Zag is a beast. I really like him. He's pretty pricey but the ability to strike at i4 on charge with a PK makes him ferocious vs alot of targets!

I've used Zag and Stormboyz in probably 8-10 games, and only a couple of those times did I find it was actually worth it.

Zagstruk has some great positives but also a huge negative. You can Assault from Deep-Strike, his Power Klaw strikes at Init 3 (They FAQed it so it doesn't go at 4 anymore because he lost Furious Charge) and his morale ability means that your Storm Boyz are fighting to the last man.

However.

His Power Klaw only works when he charges into combat, which I've found to be his biggest liability. If you end up in combat with a tough character that you don't kill in the first assault, say with Terminator armor, then in following assault rounds you don't get your Power Klaw attacks in, which means your opponent can start whittling you down as your normal attacks bounce off his armor. Now, the GOOD news is that because of Zagstruk's morale ability, it might take your opponent a few turns to whittle you down, so your Stormboyz can tarpit whatever they've assaulted.

Also, since Zagstruk is not an Independent Character, he is vulnerable to any directed firepower. A smart opponent can get rid of him by challenging him when he doesn't have his Power Klaw attack, or using precision hits to try and wipe him out.

My experiences with Stormboyz and Zagstruk are one of two things:

1) Zagstruk attacks and assaults something, wipes it out, and then gets killed in the next shooting phase.
2) Zagstruk attacks and assaults something, doesn't wipe it out, and remains in that combat for the next couple of turns until either Zagstruk is killed or all the stormboyz are slowly whittled away.

I'll say this though... he's a FUN unit to use. The games I've used him in are always memorable, win or lose.

Its not him losing furious charge he still has it, Furious Charge no longer grants a bonus initiative anymore...the ork FAQ just talks about it because it was a thing back then.
Just like old tau dex talking about target priority like crazy throughout the dex. That dex was so heavily FAQ'd i almost never looked at it instead of the FAQ lol

My apologies I thought zag was i4 like a warboss. Whoops.

He's not ghazgul, but he is still a beat stick. (On charge)

Without his pk at i3 and surprise charge he is a bit lackluster. The assault from deep strike is why I bring him though. More of a suprise factor than a real asset. In any case my mileage is similar to yours. Usually he isn't worth it. Plain and simple. He doesn't "suck" really but not optimal enough to tak for competitive lists. All in all they are "alright" but Too expensiv. Zag brings a neat gimmick with him and all but, still relegates them to a "fun" unit instead of a competitive one. I wouldn't ever say they suck though, they are just really quite mediocre, and beiń overpriced doesn't help!

-sky

If Zag and his unit takes out that firebase unit that kills your lots of your boyz I think it might be worth it.

i used to take a min stormboyz squad and zag purely to send him at some backfield vehicle like a LRBT squad (which, pens n such do pour over btw so he has a good chance to take out more than 1 on 1 charge) but i ALWAYS mishap the bastard.

Kinda funny, i also play tau and deepstrike crisis teams all the time and rarely scatter and if i do i usually scatter to a bad shooting spot not into a mishap. Never once deepstruck with orks and didnt mishap (even weirdboy 'Ere We Go! deepstrike)

The rules for stormboys are perfectly fine.

The problems with the storm boys isn't their rules, it's their cost.

They should probably be about 2 points more than a regular slugga boy instead of double the price.

Seeing as how they are currently unpopular and don't have a multi part plastic box it would be a reasonable conclusion to think GW will release a new plastic box of storm boys and give them a huge price reduction when the ork 6ed book comes out.

8pt stormboyz

Good god I would take them at that price.

It'd probably be 7 points in fact if the rumoured 5 point boy kicks in with the next dex

GW always puts a huge tax on mobile units, so I would expect to see them below 9 points. However, they might get the option to assault fliers, as seen in THQ's game "Space Marine".

 schadenfreude wrote:
Seeing as how they are currently unpopular and don't have a multi part plastic box it would be a reasonable conclusion to think GW will release a new plastic box of storm boys and give them a huge price reduction when the ork 6ed book comes out.

They do have a multipart plastic box though... But I agree, their point cost is the problem. They should cost around 9pts (or 8pts with the rumoured point reduction of boyz). Less than that would make Trukk boyz look even worse than they currently are.