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Tax payer money well spent or well, spent? What a crew of jackasses, I think there's a law suit in here somewhere.


http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/agents-raid-animal-shelter-kill-deer-named-giggles.html

Firstly, you never, ever take a fawn. They are not abandoned.

Fawns have no scent, so when a predator or another threat approaches them, they lie in the grass, and it'll pass by while the mother draws it away. After the danger has passed, the mother will return. She can sometimes be gone for hours if necessary, but she will return.

This is not a new policy, what the Wisconsin DNR did, and the people running the shelter should have known about this.

It's a BS story made to pull at the heart strings, but it never would have happened if the people had left nature alone, as they should have.

DNR has more power in WI then the LEO there has lol

 Jihadin wrote:
DNR has more power in WI then the LEO there has lol

DNR is a branch of LEO. State Police equivalent, just differant job description.

DNR Conservation Officer is my intended career path after my stint in the AF is done.

DNR doesn't need a search warrant to enter a house if there is a suspicion that an individual either poach, go over the amount allowed, or shoot out the back door. I did over a year at Ft McCoy WI. DNR has more power then LEO

 Jihadin wrote:
DNR doesn't need a search warrant to enter a house if there is a suspicion that an individual either poach, go over the amount allowed, or shoot out the back door. I did over a year at Ft McCoy WI. DNR has more power then LEO

In those regards, yes. But in all other aspects of the job, they're nothing more then State Police. They have authority to act just as a regular police officer, enforcing all laws of the state.

Back to the original point, it is illegal for citizens to "raise" wild animals, as that fawn was. The state does not have the resources to rehabilitate the animal, and it was to late to return it to the wild, the damage was already done. There was only one solution, euthanizing the deer.

Don't like it? Take it up with the Wisconsin legislature for making those laws. Don't attack the officers who did their job.

This week, on a very special episode of Warrior Cops©...

My favourite part is the "you can't have a Canada Goose on the property". Apparently, WI DNR is both unaware that they can fly, and also has no idea how powerful a foe they have made that day.

Ask anyone from Chicago; they'll tell you the Hell that Canadian Geese can bring.

Well maybe the shelter should have maybe idk register the deer with wild life control? Incidents lik this can often be avided if people file the proper paperwork.
Also, PEople in the comments section make me fear for mankind

And here's the more disturbing part:

A 19-year-old staff member took photographs of the raid, but Schultz said a deputy sheriff confiscated his cell phone and deleted all the pictures.

Fire the deupty sheriff and throw them in jail for destruction of property. This kind of thing needs to stop.

Destruction of property? He deleted pictures, besides if it was an iphone apple would have sue them

I say.......Promote the Deputy.....its fun crushing a 19 years old dreams of a "Free America" Right now its it's just verbage till it actually gets filed to go to court eh

I agree with the crazy man. Free america is a boring america.

 azazel the cat wrote:
My favourite part is the "you can't have a Canada Goose on the property". Apparently, WI DNR is both unaware that they can fly, and also has no idea how powerful a foe they have made that day.

Ask anyone from Chicago; they'll tell you the Hell that Canadian Geese can bring.

There are a large number of geese the roam around my old high school chasing teens and gaking everywhere. Mostly they gaked on the sidewalks, and then people would track it into the school. It was not uncommon to see one of the janitors mopping up goose gak.

One day myself and some friends were hanging out in front of the school when we heard someone yelling at the top of their lungs. Around the corner of the school comes a flock of around 100 geese running on the ground or sort of half flying. Behind them comes this old janitor riding a golf cart at high speed and brandishing a rake while using the choicest language. Just as he was about to overtake the flock they all made a sharp 90 degree turn, when he tried to do the same the golf cart tipped over. In an instant all 100 geese turned around and jumped on him.

My friends and I ran over and beat them off with our backpacks (a teen's backpack being only slightly less heavy than a gym bag full of bowling balls we did quite well) and managed to save the guy.

Geese are some real hard *insert adjective here* man

 Peregrine wrote:
And here's the more disturbing part:

A 19-year-old staff member took photographs of the raid, but Schultz said a deputy sheriff confiscated his cell phone and deleted all the pictures.

Fire the deupty sheriff and throw them in jail for destruction of property. This kind of thing needs to stop.

Add to that the five day stake out, including surveying by air before the raid so the baby Deer caper could be cracked, and it adds up to a crew of morons that is wasting tax payer money in Wisconsin so they can pretend they're on a major drug raid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ma55ter_fett wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:
My favourite part is the "you can't have a Canada Goose on the property". Apparently, WI DNR is both unaware that they can fly, and also has no idea how powerful a foe they have made that day.

Ask anyone from Chicago; they'll tell you the Hell that Canadian Geese can bring.

There are a large number of geese the roam around my old high school chasing teens and gaking everywhere. Mostly they gaked on the sidewalks, and then people would track it into the school. It was not uncommon to see one of the janitors mopping up goose gak.

One day myself and some friends were hanging out in front of the school when we heard someone yelling at the top of their lungs. Around the corner of the school comes a flock of around 100 geese running on the ground or sort of half flying. Behind them comes this old janitor riding a golf cart at high speed and brandishing a rake while using the choicest language. Just as he was about to overtake the flock they all made a sharp 90 degree turn, when he tried to do the same the golf cart tipped over. In an instant all 100 geese turned around and jumped on him.

My friends and I ran over and beat them off with our backpacks (a teen's backpack being only slightly less heavy than a gym bag full of bowling balls we did quite well) and managed to save the guy.

Geese are some real hard *insert adjective here* man

That must have been a sight.

Relapse wrote:
Tax payer money well spent or well, spent? What a crew of jackasses, I think there's a law suit in here somewhere.


http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/agents-raid-animal-shelter-kill-deer-named-giggles.html

It depends if you believe the animal shelter people or the police people. Clearly there are several discrepancies between their statements.

A bit of objective evidence would help resolve the contradictions. For example, the guy with the phone cam could simply undelete the deleted files. That would prove that they had been deleted and the killing of the fawn at the shelter. This would destroy the police credibility.

TBH, though, I am rather surprised he did not just live tweet with pics during the raid. The evidence would be incontrovertible. Of course it's possible the deleted pics story just was made up in order to smear the police.

There is a post on a site discussing this by someone allegedly familiar with this firsthand that offers a substantially different narrative. I'm not reposting it here because who knows what the veracity is; but this recounting as is currently reported and posted here (and elsewhere) may contain some serious lies of omission. I'm hoping some actual reporting happens and we see the whole story.

Let me be clear, I'm not impugning Relapse as it's an interesting story for realz and there are about 4 sites with this story as is, but I'm going to hold on rushing to judgement after how poorly reported a certain other true crime story turned out to be after the fact.

This week, on a very special episode of Warrior Cops©...

(copyrighted rooofl)
That could run and run.....

Because we all know how terrifying baby deer named Giggles are...

Great, now I want to punch a policeman.

I can't help but feel that we're not getting the whole story here.

Other things that might be relevant to this discussion.

*pretty sure transporting wild animals across state lines is a felony. If they didn't go through proper channels, that could have been an additional charge, and perhaps be a reason for the odd way that this raid was supposedly carried out. This is me going off memory, not 100% sure that's an actual law. If I remember correctly, its more to prevent parasites and diseases from crossing state lines, and less about animal trafficking.

*it is illegal to have a wild animal without a license. Deer in particular can be extremely dangerous when they're older. Those hooves hurt and of course if you have a buck those antlers aren't for show. Not really a big deal in this case because we're talking about a fawn, but it's the main reason the law exists. They don't joke around with this law in most states.

Sounds like Fish and Wildlife got a wee bit carried away in their job. I agree that a simple call might have sufficed. If the shelter said no it would have at least given them a more legitimate excuse for a raid.

Or maybe the deer had some super virus we don't know about and the DNR just saved all our lives, who knows?

*I'm looking at a career in wildlife conservation, so obviously I'm a bit biased here*

What bugs me about this story is the way they came in like gangbusters to get the fawn, complete with a 5 day stakeout of the place.

How would they get a warrant to search without some evidence the fawn was in there?

text removed.
reds8n

Typical adorable name bias in the liberal media.
The similar killing of adorable baby bear "Axeface Murderpants" has been completely ignored.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
How would they get a warrant to search without some evidence the fawn was in there?

DNR does not require a warrant. Don't ask me about the legality of it, I have no idea about it, but it's there somehow.

 djones520 wrote:
DNR does not require a warrant. Don't ask me about the legality of it, I have no idea about it, but it's there somehow.

Well, we probably shouldn't ask you about it because you're totally, utterly wrong. Of course they need a search warrant as law enforcement officers, and the idea they don't is laughable.

Google your state + department of natural resources + search warrant for any number of news stories about them executing said warrants, any state in the country. Unless they have probable cause (just like any other law enforcement), they need a warrant.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
How would they get a warrant to search without some evidence the fawn was in there?

The same way you get any other search warrant - by showing a judge what you have and getting them to sign off on it.

Here's a different version of the same story that says - surprise - they were, in fact, executing a warrant based upon tips. Whether those tips should have been adequate, that's another argument.

 Ouze wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
How would they get a warrant to search without some evidence the fawn was in there?

DNR does not require a warrant. Don't ask me about the legality of it, I have no idea about it, but it's there somehow.

Well, we probably shouldn't ask you about it because you're totally, utterly wrong. Of course they need a search warrant as law enforcement officers, and the idea they don't is laughable.

Google your state + department of natural resources + search warrant for any number of news stories about them executing said warrants, any state in the country. Unless they have probable cause (just like any other law enforcement), they need a warrant.

Well since you wanted to get into it.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(g03h5g55onrwi155ocxbbk3b))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-324-1602

There always has to be probably cause, but probably cause comes from something as simple as "I saw my neighbor skinning 3 deer in his garage in July." Once that takes place, they do not need a warrant to enter the premises. If they can acquire one they will, because it'll make for fewer legal challenges, but as the law shows... they don't require one. It's not a blanket free for all for them to walk wherever they want, but that was never what we were talking about.

Well, now we're getting a little more close to accurate, and away from "DNR can search your house whenever they feel like it if they think you were poaching" mark we were floating at mid-thread, there. Regardless of how loose PC requirements are in WI, it's one or the other.

And now I'm moving the goalposts, I know, but I doubt that incredibly loose test as described would survive a challenge if it went far enough because it doesn't meet any exigency test. But that's a whole other thing.

They can skip a warrant, IF they have probable cause to believe you have poached or committed something that specifically falls under their jurisdiction. For example, he needs a warrant if he thinks you have pot, but he can enter if he thinks you have poached ducks or illegally obtained pet piranhas.

If he just happens to find weed while he's in there that's just a bonus.

No, I don't get it either.

So DNR are just liike any other cops.

If somebody tells the LE/DNR that their neighbor is skinning people/deer in their garage right now then LE/DNR can act on that probable cause to investigate.

No different than any other cop investigating any other thing that he/she has probable cause for.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ouze wrote:

Here's a different version of the same story that says - surprise - they were, in fact, executing a warrant based upon tips. Whether those tips should have been adequate, that's another argument.

So they had tips and then they did surveillance based on those tips that probably gave them enough probable cause to get a warrant and get the illegally held deer before it was illegally moved across state lines by somebody that should have know that what they were doing was illegal and either didn't know the rules for the facility they were operating or somebody who just didn't care to get the proper authorization.

But "bad cops shoot Bambi" gets a better emotional reaction from people.

I'm not a fan of cops and I think there are plenty of donkey caves out there who need their badge up their rear. But this is a non-story.