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I'm still unsure how the Centurions can even move, as well as that, do the Space marines really need more 'line breaker' or 'heavy weapon' units? There are already several units able to fill these roles, and adding more isn't really productive. I really think GW should be expanding on troops, and trying to expand on rules for individual chapters and the traits that are shown by them. What I would like to see would mainly be a greater customization of characters, which in turn would effect the rest of the army. While chapter tactics already does this, it's only to an extent.

I'm also not sure about this Black Templar's thing. I imagine they are gonna keep Helbrecht, but I don't know how they will retain the Emperors champion or Grimaldus as their own units. Both will probably become alternatives to Chaplins and company champions.

So don't buy them. It's not like GW is holding you at gun point to buy their models. It would be easier to just rob you at that point. Based on the rumored stats they aren't even an auto-include. So there really isn't much reason to be griping. Now if it was the only model GW was releasing then sure, that would be a shame, however we are also getting some really nice pieces in this release as well.

 Pyriel- wrote:
So we finally have it.
Even the centurion rules are as crappy as their looks.

What...is...the...point of this unit?

You have a copy of the codex?

Imperial Deceit wrote:
So don't buy them. It's not like GW is holding you at gun point to buy their models. It would be easier to just rob you at that point. Based on the rumored stats they aren't even an auto-include. So there really isn't much reason to be griping. Now if it was the only model GW was releasing then sure, that would be a shame, however we are also getting some really nice pieces in this release as well.

Don't try and reduce criticism to 'griping'. I do agree that the other models do look good, but I'm entitled to post my opinions on this board, even if you disagree with them.

 OverwatchCNC wrote:

 Pyriel- wrote:
So we finally have it.
Even the centurion rules are as crappy as their looks.

What...is...the...point of this unit?

You have a copy of the codex?

Yeah, going on rumors alone might not be the best.

 Marthike wrote:
People need to stop hating.

The centurion looks pretty epic, when did realism comes before epicness.

Who cares how a marine fits in it. It looks cool and that's all I care.

People don't need to do anything. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and just because you don't care about something doesn't mean planet earth has to agree with you. You should not be offended that other people don't like it, nor should people who don't like it be offended that you do. Make up your own mind and let others do the same, no one has a monopoly on opinion here.

In some cases it is criticism, however a lot of these posts it is mostly “These models suck, they are the worst thing ever” which is exactly griping. It is a generalization I admit but this topic is almost 70 pages long and generalizing is kind of warranted at this point. I don’t mind the criticism; it gets people thinking, like all of those who are trying to figure out cool conversion or how to improve the piece once they get one. However claiming something sucks is a pure opinion, and basically useless information. You don’t like centurions, we get it, it has been stated.

I've seen too many rumoured rules differ significantly from the end published version to stress about a leaked unit being rubbish.
When I have the published rule book in hand, and I've seen them in use on the tabletop, then I'll form an opinion.
Anything prior to that is to my mind foolish.

 Marthike wrote:
People need to stop hating.

The centurion looks pretty epic, when did realism comes before epicness.

Who cares how a marine fits in it. It looks cool and that's all I care.

Upon the use of the word hating, I realised that this post would not end well. People are free to give their opinions here, don't try and put it down to 'hating'. That's fairly immature.

Someone here said it best: "complaining about people complaining...is still complaining"

Imperial Deceit wrote:
In some cases it is criticism, however a lot of these posts it is mostly “These models suck, they are the worst thing ever” which is exactly griping. It is a generalization I admit but this topic is almost 70 pages long and generalizing is kind of warranted at this point. I don’t mind the criticism; it gets people thinking, like all of those who are trying to figure out cool conversion or how to improve the piece once they get one. However claiming something sucks is a pure opinion, and basically useless information. You don’t like centurions, we get it, it has been stated.

Generalizing is never warranted. People are free to say if they don't like something, even if it's not fully critical.

 Marthike wrote:
People need to stop hating.

Oh do we now? Yes sir, right away supreme chancellor!

The centurion looks pretty epic, when did realism comes before epicness.

That is your opinion and you have every right to it, just as I have every right to say I think they are stupidest SM models I have ever seen.

Who cares how a marine fits in it. It looks cool and that's all I care.

Apparently quite a lot of people need some realism to suspend their disbelief. Oh and good for you.

Generalizing by which I mean I am not going to go through and list every exemption to my statement, instead I will use the qualifier of “most” instead of “all” thus save myself typing a page worth of examples. And I never said people weren’t free to say they don’t like something, I said it was useless information. However this is in danger of getting way off topic so I’m going to drop it now sense I won’t convince you to my side in either case. Anywho…
How ‘bout them Space Marines?
Has anyone been able source better pictures of the Sternguard?

Here's a good one - a general in thread warning!

Stay on topic - or else expect to run into trouble.

So, yeah, sorry to interrupt all this discussions happening over here

I'm work-blocked right now, but I'm dying with curiousity, are the Sternguard pics up front anything new? I only remember a picture of 2 Sternguard with new arse-kicking Combi-weapons.

Those are the same pics from before. I'm holding out for another "leaked" box like the Vanguard vets, but I see that as unlikely despite how awesome it would be.

What? You don't share my same aesthetic opinion?! You must be a horrible person! ARrrghhgh!!!

Who cares about what they look like, the only thing I am interested in are their rules, especially their new weapons. Heard about them wounding on armor save while denying the enemy's armor save in return.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Who cares about what they look like, the only thing I am interested in are their rules, especially their new weapons. Heard about them wounding on armor save while denying the enemy's armor save in return.

You heard about gravguns/cannons/pistols.

Grav weapons will be interesting. Although they could very easily be unbalancing. Wounding on the save instead of toughness isn't that bad, unless the gun also has a high str. or low ap, then you would be penalizing heavy armour units that usually pay a hefty fine for that armour. I really don't want to see them end up as an auto-include.

Of the three characters, I am very unsure about the chaplin, not liking the helm on it from this angle at all, unpleasant echoes of the Lamartes original. Will have to wait and see it from another angle. The Captain seems solid enough, but is very Ultramarine in aesthetic, I'm also not a fan of the 'holding the baby' gun holding and given this, it makes kit bashing very awkward, which is undesirable. The Librarian is freaking amazing, not sure about his cherub, but the rest of the model is bloody great, the head is very well done.

The Vanguard look good, the Sternguard look AMAZING (and I'm not exactly a big marine fan).

The Stalker and Hunter both look good, liking the additional bracing legs on them, I guess once they hit the table, the flyer trend will go out the window, especially given what appears to be two individually targeting turrets on the Stalker. Whilst my DE and Orks might well be crying over it, I hope it removes the necron flyer spam.

I'm not sold on the centurions, they seem very hastily put together, much as the recent space marine flyers have been. Just as the newly leaked images of the new forgeworld space marine flyer have really impressed me and left me wondering why on earth GW doesn't get that same dude or dudette to design their flyers, so am I now wondering what the forgeworld peeps could have done to create the centurion with less of a 'slapped together hastily' look. What, for example, is the point of the powerfists if they can't reach past either the heavy weapons or the drill things (poorly done drill things btw) and the legs... very badly done, strangely, whilst looking at these and pondering how to deal with the legs on them, I considered that a banelord styled tractor unit might work better than the giant legs they ended up with, that or just buying 3 forgeworld contemptors and running them 'count's as'.

The 'toy' aesthetic is becoming stronger and stronger in recent GW releases but forgeworld has not carried that into their production. I wonder if perhaps we older gamers are being market relocated to the forgeworld product and purposely away from the GW product? Given they are all but at the same price now, that might not be as offensive as it used to sound.

Imperial Deceit wrote:
Grav weapons will be interesting. Although they could very easily be unbalancing. Wounding on the save instead of toughness isn't that bad, unless the gun also has a high str. or low ap, then you would be penalizing heavy armour units that usually pay a hefty fine for that armour. I really don't want to see them end up as an auto-include.

I hope grav don't turn in a autowin.

GW promised to stop stealing FW models. Weather or not that pertains to the sculpters I don't know. I personally like the metal terminator chapline, but a power armour model wouldbe good too.

It would be great if we could get some pictures of the Sternguard and Tactical Squads.

I said....IT WOULD BE GREAT IF WE COULD GET SOME PICTURES OF THE STERNGUARD AND TACTICAL SQUADS.

Just saying.

Edit: Double post, again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 dienekes96 wrote:
It would be great if we could get some pictures of the Sternguard and Tactical Squads.

I said....IT WOULD BE GREAT IF WE COULD GET SOME PICTURES OF THE STERNGUARD AND TACTICAL SQUADS.

Just saying.

One more time Dienekes, I don't think they heard you in the back.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Of the three characters, I am very unsure about the chaplin, not liking the helm on it from this angle at all, unpleasant echoes of the Lamartes original. Will have to wait and see it from another angle. The Captain seems solid enough, but is very Ultramarine in aesthetic, I'm also not a fan of the 'holding the baby' gun holding and given this, it makes kit bashing very awkward, which is undesirable. The Librarian is freaking amazing, not sure about his cherub, but the rest of the model is bloody great, the head is very well done.

The Vanguard look good, the Sternguard look AMAZING (and I'm not exactly a big marine fan).

The Stalker and Hunter both look good, liking the additional bracing legs on them, I guess once they hit the table, the flyer trend will go out the window, especially given what appears to be two individually targeting turrets on the Stalker. Whilst my DE and Orks might well be crying over it, I hope it removes the necron flyer spam.

I'm not sold on the centurions, they seem very hastily put together, much as the recent space marine flyers have been. Just as the newly leaked images of the new forgeworld space marine flyer have really impressed me and left me wondering why on earth GW doesn't get that same dude or dudette to design their flyers, so am I now wondering what the forgeworld peeps could have done to create the centurion with less of a 'slapped together hastily' look. What, for example, is the point of the powerfists if they can't reach past either the heavy weapons or the drill things (poorly done drill things btw) and the legs... very badly done, strangely, whilst looking at these and pondering how to deal with the legs on them, I considered that a banelord styled tractor unit might work better than the giant legs they ended up with, that or just buying 3 forgeworld contemptors and running them 'count's as'.

The 'toy' aesthetic is becoming stronger and stronger in recent GW releases but forgeworld has not carried that into their production. I wonder if perhaps we older gamers are being market relocated to the forgeworld product and purposely away from the GW product? Given they are all but at the same price now, that might not be as offensive as it used to sound.

In the event they are trying to shove vet gamers over to FW entirely, they need to put out an absolute, unassailable, unquestionable, unequivocal statement that Forgeworld units are legitimate in normal play, because apparently slapping big "APPROVED FOR 40K, NO, REALLY, THERE'S A BIG STAMP AND EVERYTHING" into the rules didn't work.

People will always be resistant to FW. While there are certainly some OP units in the IA books, that's also true of the GW codex. Although it seems like those same people don't seem to mind FW when I use one of there underpowered units...

Really? Hm, always thought GW clarified that FW models with the big WARHAMMER 40K stamp are eligiblefor use in normal games.

Imperial Deceit wrote:
People will always be resistant to FW. While there are certainly some OP units in the IA books, that's also true of the GW codex. Although it seems like those same people don't seem to mind FW when I use one of there underpowered units...

The problem is that Forge World isn't doing anything interesting anymore. They've largely given up innovating and seem to be content with becoming a guarded recluse for jaded gronards.

I am continually impressed with GW innovating and pushing the envelope, something that used to be Forge World's strength before they .. well, just gave up..

FW's Horus Heresy book in particular is just one giant copy-&-paste from Black Library, down to unit names and even named characters. Innovation? Zero. The miniatures may be decent sculpts, no doubt, but they are all timid iterations of the same old Space Marine and Terminator aesthetics. Add a spike here. Add a Rogue Trader easter-egg there. That's all. No risk. No fun. No greatness.

This is a far, far cry from the Forge World that dared break new ground for (than) stagnant miniatures lines like the Tau (e.g. XV9 suits).

In contrast, the GW-studio is really not afraid to try new things. The large Walkers like the Riptide or Wraithknight, even the flyers, would've been things from the (back than) more innovation-happy Forge World as little as 2 or 3 years ago.

And even in this, GW is not content. They could've easily done a "Space-Marines-Riptide", since they are on a roll. But they choose not to, instead going once again into a brand new, unfamiliar direction.

I get that the Centurions aren't everyone's cup of tea (though I do like them, and believe more people will as soon as 360-views are there), but they demonstrate a passion for innovation and experimentation that Forge World has sadly lost in recent years.

ForgeWorld legality and complaining about the new models? DON'T CROSS THE STREAMS!

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:


The Vanguard look good, the Sternguard look AMAZING (and I'm not exactly a big marine fan).

Grrr you got all me excited that they'd leaked and I just spent 20 fruitless minutes trying to find something other than Mr.baldheadbeard.