Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added]

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**generalchaos34**

Crazyterran wrote:
ephrael wrote:
Crazyterran wrote:
Anyone else notice that there's two Combi-plasmas in that one DA squad box?

Good to know there should be at least two Combi-Plasmas in there. (Here's hopin there's at least two of each!)

I don't think that's a picture of a new DA squad box but a squad built using components from several different kits. We'll be lucky to get multiple combi-weapons in one box from GW as usual.

I meant the DA Squad... in the box.

Since for some reason they are showing DAs for the Space Marine release.

I was wondering about that one myself, and that was mostly "why are there filthy motorcycle emo Dark Angels on my new codex"

**Spartan089**

Zappit wrote:
This release has really started to get me thinking about unusual applications for this codex. This book is going to have a very wide variety of tactics, builds, and strategies.

Honestly, Chaos just ought to use this codex.

Hear me out. The Chaos marines have a pretty bland, underwhelming codex, and these guys are supposed to be on the cusp of destroying the Imperium? The new units aren't wildly exciting - Warp Talons are overpriced and vulnerable, Mutilators are slow and have too few attacks, the daemon engines have low WS/BS to be major threats, Hellbrutes are wonderful exploding statues, and cultists couldn't hold an objective if they were nailed to it. The only new unit that would suck to lose is the Helldrake.

Loyalist Marines have everything their heretic counterparts need. They have anti-air. They have ATSKNF. They will have tactics allowing more distinct armies with a wide variety of stategies. They have better Land Raiders. They have Drop Pods.

Get inventive with your fluff, and it will make sense. Iron Warriors using Iron Hands tactics or taking advantage of that UM Devastator oath? Makes sense to me. You know what Chaos Legion, like the Black Templars, would possess an incredible crusading style? Word Bearers. Night Lords and Raven Guard. The Imperial Fists sure are stubborn, just like The Flawless Host, who are so arrogant they can't see themselves failing. It's not very hard.

Already have a painted Chaos army? That Forgefiend just might make a good Predator. Those Helldrakes could be Stormtalons. Those Obliterators could be Centurions. Get creative. Convert stuff. Make those traitors competitive, and thumb your nose at the corpse Emporer by using his own tactics against him!

As for the new White Dwarf, I don't see us getting much more than pictures. The descriptions tend to be brief, and the battle reports don't give realistic, balanced games. It's just another episode of Whose Gunline is it, Anyway?, where the lists are made up and the points don't matter.

I've been advocating count as for CSM ever since that trash of a 6th edition codex came out. Out of all the codexs, CSM should have gotten unique legion rules just like the ones in this book. I for one will be using IH for my IW. Alot of people tend to look down on count as, but if everything is what you see I don't see the problem.

**Zanderchief**

This is the 3rd PA army for 6th. How much has it hurt CSM & DA in terms of actual stats?

I do not own DA but are they 14pts with ATSKNF and CT?
I know CSM are 13pts without either. Cheapest Fearless are 17pts.

Do we know if the SM's get some free weapons in the the Tacs squads again?

Just seems weird that the basic stats are the same, SM get all that love and only for 1pt more.

Is this because the other units available offset the reduced price? I just don't get it.

**Dante72**

Woke up and had to read through about 5 pages of off topic crap - thanks.

Seriously though, why are they showing a DA veteran squad for a SM release? Someone mentioned that they're made from the Sternguard set. Does that mean no more DA veterans box?

**davou**

They're showing DA because the vanilla boxes have been used to expand more specific chapters forever.

Go look at the Blood angels army section, and take a look at their tac squad. Its not even painted red, its UM. The Vanilla boxes are the ones that they get to sell to five different codex holders in one go.

Why does marketing it seem to irk people?

**Dante72**

Marketing doesn't Irk people. It was just a question that since they have a DA vet box does this mean the Sternies will replace them?

Thanks for the answer...

**kb305**

ClockworkZion wrote:
NickTheButcher wrote:
frozenwastes wrote:
Edited by AgeOfEgos

.....The librarian with skull faced flying baby should make things nice and clear for everyone just what 40k is about.....

Releasing models based on fluff written in 3rd ed.?

Hate the Cherub all you want, but it's not anything new (aside from actually getting a model). I personally like the little dude and can't wait to get it.

To me, things like this strike up fun conversation during games when a player asks WTH is on my Librarian.

My wallet is really going to lose some weight in the next few weeks.

Yeah, I dig him too. Then again I like everything that comes out for 40k. I like my game full of stuff that's so over the top it breaks the meter and becomes awesome because of it. Forget 11, I like my 40k going to 11,000.

Yes, I even think the Lord of Skulls is kinda awesome.

that's too bad. sorry to hear that.
you could always try dunking your models in glue and throwing them into a bin full of random bits.

that cherub looks slowed. In the artwork the cherubs look passable but when it's actually on a model, it's just... terrible. it would be the first thing my hobby knife slices off.

**Yodhrin**

EDIT: Nevermind, skipped ahead.

**tomjoad**

Dante72 wrote:
Marketing doesn't Irk people. It was just a question that since they have a DA vet box does this mean the Sternies will replace them?

Thanks for the answer...

Oh...Do Dark Angels not already have some kind of veteran squad that these would be perfect models for?

I mean, I know Company Vets kind of suck, but they are in the book.

**Nocturnus**

Any chance that the Canadian retail for the regular codex has been revealed? I'm guessing about $70.00.

**Sigvatr**

Wait a second, is that flying baby a hoax or are they seriously releasing this model as-is?

**cadbren**

Sigvatr wrote:
Wait a second, is that flying baby a hoax or are they seriously releasing this model as-is?

Given that they've just released this figure, why are you suprised?

**kb305**

cadbren wrote:
Sigvatr wrote:
Wait a second, is that flying baby a hoax or are they seriously releasing this model as-is?

Given that they've just released this figure, why are you suprised?

another laughably bad space marine. maybe it's meant to be a joke?

he must be singing It's Raining Men off that peice of paper cause that model is super fabulous.

**Sigvatr**

A naked baby butt...straight...in the face..dear lord.

**Bomster**

Seriously guys? These things have been part and parcel of the setting for at least 20 years. I for one am happy for every one of those baroque and weird elements that they bring into that (instead of any annoying modern military tech wankery).

(Edit: That weird - at first I see my post twice, then I edit the second one and there's only the edited one left?)

**Symbio Joe**

Get used to your charackters falling victim to the Shiv Angel of the Emperor in a challenge.

**NickTheButcher**

Bomster wrote:
Seriously guys? These things have been part and parcel of the setting for at least 20 years. I for one am happy for every one of those baroque and weird elements that they bring into that (instead of any annoying modern military tech wankery).

Many times this....

Not sure why it's so surprising that they are making models with components that have been in the fluff since 3rd. ed.

It's a cherub....and it's awesome.

I wish they would make a tech marine model with them as servitors.

-------

I'm starting to notice how the new 'dex is applying the "forge your own narrative" more and more. While the Salamanders only have the 1 SC, making a Chapter Master (or any other character) match the fluff with wargear and relics doesn't seem too far fetched -- while this could be done in 5th, the addition of the chapter tactics make the vanilla characters "feel" more like the chapter I'll be playing.

I anxiously await being able to try out all the different combinations of tactics this book may be opening up.

**Jimsolo**

NickTheButcher wrote:
Bomster wrote:
Seriously guys? These things have been part and parcel of the setting for at least 20 years. I for one am happy for every one of those baroque and weird elements that they bring into that (instead of any annoying modern military tech wankery).

Many times this....

Not sure why it's so surprising that they are making models with components that have been in the fluff since 3rd. ed.

It's a cherub....and it's awesome.

I wish they would make a tech marine model with them as servitors.

I'm sayin'. That librarian is kicking. Not only have I desired a model with one of those creepy little cherubs on it since I first saw them in the margins, I also love how that librarian is rockin' that pimp cane.

I'd been engaged in some surprisingly civil discussions on Dakka this past week or so, and had idly wondered where all the toxic invective had gone to. Now I've found it.

**Yodhrin**

Yeah, anyone wierded out by cyber-cherubs must have been suffering some form of selective blindness for the last decade or so, because they've been plastered all over the page margins of rulebooks and the artworks for that whole time.

Now, I'm not a huge fan of the Librarian cherub myself, his face looks less "sinister" and more "derp", but unless I can find it as bitz on ebay fairly soon I'll probably end up buying the Master of Marches just for that scrollbearer cherub(if I can find it at a discount online of course).

This thread has been odd, I never realised how many people play 40K but apparently hate the art, background, and themes the whole game is based on.

**Dante72**

I'm new to all of this, but from what I can see and have read, the cherubs and a lot of similar imagery is part of the whole 40k mythos.

I for one really liked the cherubs and aside from the fact, that the first one is Finecast, would love to have them in my collection. You gotta admit they look a hell of a lot better than for example those DA's with smoke coming from their backpacks...

**sockwithaticket**

What is with the design change to corvus helmets? It started with the Ravenwing Command Squad box and it looks like the one in the Sternguard box is the same. I really dislike the horizontal vents, they throw off the whole look, at least there's none of the bizarre scaffolding on he helmet that came with the RCS.

**Apologist**

More cherubs, servo skulls and weird robed people taking notes on rubricising skulls in the middle of battlefields for me, please – I love the aesthetic

As to the corvus helmet vents, that's an alternative design that dates back to Rogue Trader, notably the front cover:

I think the popularity of the plastic marines, which only had the vertical slits, gave the impression that the mark VI was more uniform than was probably the case (background-wise). Similarly, the new Mark VI torso has a single tube running up to a central plate, from which three tubes emerge. This was the design on the original metals, but not on the plastics (who had three tubes emerging directly from the belt).

TL;DR Not a design change, but a reference to the early artworks.

I've been following the thread fairly lightly, so I may have missed this – but if not, does anyone have any specific details on the successor Chapters covered? I'd like to know exactly who's mentioned, and in what sort of detail. A sentence or two each? A paragraph? A page?

**AlmightyWalrus**

Hmm, a Black Templars Chapter Master with the EW relic, 3++ and a Thunder Hammer would murder the everliving crap out of most things in a challenge. Although he'd have slightly less oomph than our current Master of Sanctity on the charge, he'd have an extra wound, real Eternal Warrior and rerolls all the time in challenges. Screw the Emperor's Champion, I'm getting a Marshal!

**kb305**

it looks fine on saint Celestine, looks good even

but in my opinion cupid on space marines looks very bad.

**Yodhrin**

kb305 wrote:
it looks fine on saint Celestine, looks good even

but in my opinion cupid on space marines looks very bad.

That sounds like a case of your opinion being coloured by how you've chosen to frame your view. Think less "cupid" and more "baroque religious devotional art come to life in the form of spiteful vat-grown cyber-constructs with built-in lasers"

**Apologist**

Agreed – and it's worth noting that the GW sculptors aren't just dropping them in willy-nilly. Putti have a long history of symbolism in art. There's an interesting article through this link:
http://www.ringlingdocents.org/putto.htm

I imagine the GW art and design teams have put a lot of thought into their inclusion.

**xruslanx**

just like to chime in that i think the cherubs look sweet. They are very much a part of the middle age theological culture that plays a huge part in 40k, and play a large part in the background fluff.

**sockwithaticket**

Apologist - thanks for that. I thought it might be a retro throwback, but, given that even forgeworld uses the more well established design (for the moment, at least), I'm surprised that it's being introduced.

**ClockworkZion**

kb305 wrote:
that's too bad. sorry to hear that.
you could always try dunking your models in glue and throwing them into a bin full of random bits.

that cherub looks slowed. In the artwork the cherubs look passable but when it's actually on a model, it's just... terrible. it would be the first thing my hobby knife slices off.

Nothing to feel sorry about. And I rather like taking pride in doing a good job in my model construction so no throwing glue into my bits box and shaking to see what I get.

Technically speaking, that cherub would be fairly mentally challenged. Imperium servo tech (skulls, those creepy cherub things, ect) aren't known for being really smart.

And I dig it, if only because I already have a few from some old Sisters related kits that I like using for objective markers.

**Leth**

The new tacticals took the kit from 37.25 to 40 dollars American for the same number of guys. Not bad considering You are getting more mks of bits, more different types of guns, and a better missile launcher.

I think someone was saying that the sternguard kit will come with two modular bolters. So you can take the combi weapon bit and then slot it on the bolter, they will then provide all the different weapon bits(and the rest can be converted)

All in all I am really looking forward to getting my hands on that sternguard kit......They will make AWESOME sergeants.