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xruslanx wrote:
sigh, even dakka is not free of liberal hogwash. I love how only in the past 50 years have we decided that the dark ages didn't happen...even though more or less every educated person in the entire middle ages spent all their time lamenting its downfall.

Then there is the reinnacence - literally the redescovering of ancient greek and roman manuscripts regarding mathamatics and architecture that simply was not known before.

Plus the professional roman army, which was quite clearly superior to the fuedal levies that replaced it. Or do you think that a peasant with a stick is a match for a professional soldier in a chain iron shirt? The saddle was the only real advantage that the dark ages had, and that was stolen from the middle east.

Plus the levels of industrial activity that dwarfed anything that came after it, and was only surpassed at the outbreak of the industrial revolution.

But what did the romans ever do for us, eh?

Please, can we just stay on topic. Parody posts like this might be funny, but aren't really in the scope of what we are interested in. I could research and submit so many posts analyzing the society and politics of the 41st millennium that it would choke every tube into this internet, but it won't help me decide what to do with my scouts.

Davor wrote:

 Ryan_A wrote:
"Telion:
- Chapter Tactics Ultramarines
- Same points cost
- Same rules"

Does this mean that unless you are ultramarines or have ulttramarines allies, that you can't take telion? This will really suck as I rely on him for my quadgun and scouts behind my aegis line.

Do what Tyranid players or any good General would do. Adapt.

You can take him, you just need to be using UM CT. (I think they are called chapter tactics.)

Well damn, time to post him up on ebay than. Just bought him a month or so ago too.

 MandalorynOranj wrote:
So on-topic, think it might be possible that the relics are limited by Chapter Tactics as well as characters?

No, these relics will be very general and be able to really fill in as special gear on any army. The supplements will bring the army specific stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ryan_A wrote:

Davor wrote:

 Ryan_A wrote:
"Telion:
- Chapter Tactics Ultramarines
- Same points cost
- Same rules"

Does this mean that unless you are ultramarines or have ulttramarines allies, that you can't take telion? This will really suck as I rely on him for my quadgun and scouts behind my aegis line.

Do what Tyranid players or any good General would do. Adapt.

You can take him, you just need to be using UM CT. (I think they are called chapter tactics.)

Well damn, time to post him up on ebay than. Just bought him a month or so ago too.

Why not convert/paint him up to fit your army and use him as a cool Sergeant/Vet Sergeant?

 Ryan_A wrote:

Davor wrote:

 Ryan_A wrote:
"Telion:
- Chapter Tactics Ultramarines
- Same points cost
- Same rules"

Does this mean that unless you are ultramarines or have ulttramarines allies, that you can't take telion? This will really suck as I rely on him for my quadgun and scouts behind my aegis line.

Do what Tyranid players or any good General would do. Adapt.

You can take him, you just need to be using UM CT. (I think they are called chapter tactics.)

Well damn, time to post him up on ebay than. Just bought him a month or so ago too.

Considering your thread about wishing to include a Librarian in your crimson fists army, why not grab a UM Librarian (Or Tigurius) and an UM scout squad with Telion?

 Ryan_A wrote:
Well damn, time to post him up on ebay than. Just bought him a month or so ago too.

Or you could keep him, remove the Us and paint him up in your preferred colours and use him as the scout Sgt? That way you can also use him if you decides to try the UM CTs down the track.

 Eldarain wrote:

 Ryan_A wrote:

Davor wrote:

 Ryan_A wrote:
"Telion:
- Chapter Tactics Ultramarines
- Same points cost
- Same rules"

Does this mean that unless you are ultramarines or have ulttramarines allies, that you can't take telion? This will really suck as I rely on him for my quadgun and scouts behind my aegis line.

Do what Tyranid players or any good General would do. Adapt.

You can take him, you just need to be using UM CT. (I think they are called chapter tactics.)

Well damn, time to post him up on ebay than. Just bought him a month or so ago too.

Considering your thread about wishing to include a Librarian in your crimson fists army, why not grab a UM Librarian (Or Tigurius) and an UM scout squad with Telion?

Thank you, I think my attachment best explains my reaction!

anyone with real world military experience should be well aquainted with accepting logical fallacies...
hahahahaha...

the Dark Ages seems to be a very European thing...
the Arabs, the Chinese, and the Japanese were all making scientific and technological advances throughout the European Middle Age...
of course, 40K is written from the European perspective...

on topic: 3 more days until the White Dwarf drops...
should be interesting to read the design articles, and the batttle report...
we should also be able to check out the sample pages from the Codex on iBooks Friday night...

i'm looking forward to see how much new fluff we get for chapters like the Salamanders and the Iron Hands...

cheers
jah

can someone upload the leaked WD pictures (the new ones) on dakka since I am blocked :(

xruslanx wrote:
sigh, even dakka is not free of liberal hogwash. I love how only in the past 50 years have we decided that the dark ages didn't happen...even though more or less every educated person in the entire middle ages spent all their time lamenting its downfall.

Then there is the reinnacence - literally the redescovering of ancient greek and roman manuscripts regarding mathamatics and architecture that simply was not known before.

Plus the professional roman army, which was quite clearly superior to the fuedal levies that replaced it. Or do you think that a peasant with a stick is a match for a professional soldier in a chain iron shirt? The saddle was the only real advantage that the dark ages had, and that was stolen from the middle east.

Plus the levels of industrial activity that dwarfed anything that came after it, and was only surpassed at the outbreak of the industrial revolution.

But what did the romans ever do for us, eh?

The ancient Celts had saddles which the Romans copied off them.
Please look at church/Frankish style architecture. This is what today is referred to as Gothic stye and seems to be the preferred style for 40K. It was this Germanic style that dominated church buildings from the end of the 'Dark Ages' through to the Renaissance.
The Renaissance (rebirth) was a move towards the cultures and art of the ancient world. Gothic style was seen as barbaric as it wasn't Roman or Greek. As the Goths were seen as barbarians, their name was given to this style as an insult. It was also at this time that the concept of the middle ages was developed. The middle ages being the period between the Roman Empire and the Reborn classical civilization - the bit in the middle in other words that we now aren't going to talk about.
The reason people are moving away from considering the Dark Ages as such is because more is now known about that time and they're not as primitive as people first thought. Populations were rising, new towns were being created, Christianity was replacing paganism, but there was always this idea that the ancient world was superior, kind of how people in the 40K universe look back at the time before the heresy as a superior time to live.
Despite the muslim world's vaunted civilization, they never created anything akin to the ancient cities and aside from some mosques, never truly matched the architecture even of the early middle ages - it's a bit of a myth that they were so advanced. Their true advantage lay in controlling the major trade routes between Europe, Africa and Asia. They actually cut Europe off from the rest of the world which is why Columbus and others were keen to use ships to find new sources of trade which led to the "discovery" of the Americas and then the rest of the world.

Sorry that was off topic, but this is important as there is a lot of sterotypes tied up in medieval Europe and they often end up in 40K scenarios too.

 Marthike wrote:
can someone upload the leaked WD pictures (the new ones) on dakka since I am blocked :(

Probably not, given that GW has hit sites with C&Ds over stuff like this before.

if its important; move that gak to another thread.

 Marthike wrote:
can someone upload the leaked WD pictures (the new ones) on dakka since I am blocked :(

Pretty much what has been seen so far but show various chapter colours.



The sgt here shows the new mk6 torso.
The rest of the pictures are some new art work and some battle report.
When the official release comes out in a couple of days we'll have lots of good pictures to see.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 davou wrote:
if its important; move that gak to another thread.

Hey sherlock, if I move it to another thread then I can't reply to the poster with a horrid grasp of history here now can I.

Those two helmets on the left Vanguard look new. But due to paint job it is hard to tell what they actually look like.

Please stay on topic and if you want to discuss the Dark Ages, creationism or imperialistic advances throughout history---please move such talk to the OT forum. General warning for the thread--any further OT discussion will have this warning in consideration when it is removed.

Thanks,

Ryan

 SickSix wrote:
Those two helmets on the left Vanguard look new. But due to paint job it is hard to tell what they actually look like.

They're new.


Sgt in the middle has a crusader type helm with eagle which is the same as the sgt in the pic above where the artists has painted a big cross over his face.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Do people deliberately use flashes on "leaked" pics?

They keep releasing things like Codex: Space Marines and people keep finding out just how silly it all is. The librarian with skull faced flying baby should make things nice and clear for everyone just what 40k is about. For some, it's fun, for others it's a disappointment when they thought they were getting into a sci-fi game.

I like though, that fluff is optional. that you can get the models you want and play with the rules you want and have the story be... whatever you want.

The new Sternguard look pretty good, but at that price, i think I'd get Forgeworld Heresy stuff as I like 30k universe better than the 40k one.

I have to have the flying baby, that and the one that comes with one of the new masters of the chapter.

In regards FW, I think some of the new plastic sets are just as good like the Ravenwing bike command set - the gap is closing.

Anyone else notice that there's two Combi-plasmas in that one DA squad box?

Good to know there should be at least two Combi-Plasmas in there. (Here's hopin there's at least two of each!)

After looking at the changes I think competitively marines will remain in the same spot. Do you guys see anything that is game changing? Don't get me wrong their are great players who will win with it but, to the average player the changes will not equal out to more wins.

Puscifer wrote:
MK?

Save your pity for the weak!

Crazyterran wrote:
Anyone else notice that there's two Combi-plasmas in that one DA squad box?

Good to know there should be at least two Combi-Plasmas in there. (Here's hopin there's at least two of each!)

I don't think that's a picture of a new DA squad box but a squad built using components from several different kits. We'll be lucky to get multiple combi-weapons in one box from GW as usual.

Edited by AgeOfEgos

This release has really started to get me thinking about unusual applications for this codex. This book is going to have a very wide variety of tactics, builds, and strategies.

Honestly, Chaos just ought to use this codex.

Hear me out. The Chaos marines have a pretty bland, underwhelming codex, and these guys are supposed to be on the cusp of destroying the Imperium? The new units aren't wildly exciting - Warp Talons are overpriced and vulnerable, Mutilators are slow and have too few attacks, the daemon engines have low WS/BS to be major threats, Hellbrutes are wonderful exploding statues, and cultists couldn't hold an objective if they were nailed to it. The only new unit that would suck to lose is the Helldrake.

Loyalist Marines have everything their heretic counterparts need. They have anti-air. They have ATSKNF. They will have tactics allowing more distinct armies with a wide variety of stategies. They have better Land Raiders. They have Drop Pods.

Get inventive with your fluff, and it will make sense. Iron Warriors using Iron Hands tactics or taking advantage of that UM Devastator oath? Makes sense to me. You know what Chaos Legion, like the Black Templars, would possess an incredible crusading style? Word Bearers. Night Lords and Raven Guard. The Imperial Fists sure are stubborn, just like The Flawless Host, who are so arrogant they can't see themselves failing. It's not very hard.

Already have a painted Chaos army? That Forgefiend just might make a good Predator. Those Helldrakes could be Stormtalons. Those Obliterators could be Centurions. Get creative. Convert stuff. Make those traitors competitive, and thumb your nose at the corpse Emporer by using his own tactics against him!

As for the new White Dwarf, I don't see us getting much more than pictures. The descriptions tend to be brief, and the battle reports don't give realistic, balanced games. It's just another episode of Whose Gunline is it, Anyway?, where the lists are made up and the points don't matter.

ephrael wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:
Anyone else notice that there's two Combi-plasmas in that one DA squad box?

Good to know there should be at least two Combi-Plasmas in there. (Here's hopin there's at least two of each!)

I don't think that's a picture of a new DA squad box but a squad built using components from several different kits. We'll be lucky to get multiple combi-weapons in one box from GW as usual.

I meant the DA Squad... in the box.

Since for some reason they are showing DAs for the Space Marine release.

I like the Centurians

 Davespil wrote:
I like the Centurians

Of course you would. Its only logical.

Creationism aside (and hopefully less of a tangent) does anyone have any idea if we'll be seeing a price rise with this release? I haven't heard any rumours, but the whole dire avenger thing with the eldar release has made me nervous.

I can almost guarantee that the prices on any re-cut kit will go up. Not once has it not been the case that they augment the price for a new box.

 frozenwastes wrote:
Edited by AgeOfEgos


.....The librarian with skull faced flying baby should make things nice and clear for everyone just what 40k is about.....

Releasing models based on fluff written in 3rd ed.?

Hate the Cherub all you want, but it's not anything new (aside from actually getting a model). I personally like the little dude and can't wait to get it.

To me, things like this strike up fun conversation during games when a player asks WTH is on my Librarian.

My wallet is really going to lose some weight in the next few weeks.

 NickTheButcher wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
Edited by AgeOfEgos


.....The librarian with skull faced flying baby should make things nice and clear for everyone just what 40k is about....

Releasing models based on fluff written in 3rd ed.?

Hate the Cherub all you want, but it's not anything new (aside from actually getting a model). I personally like the little dude and can't wait to get it.

To me, things like this strike up fun conversation during games when a player asks WTH is on my Librarian.

My wallet is really going to lose some weight in the next few weeks.

Yeah, I dig him too. Then again I like everything that comes out for 40k. I like my game full of stuff that's so over the top it breaks the meter and becomes awesome because of it. Forget 11, I like my 40k going to 11,000.

Yes, I even think the Lord of Skulls is kinda awesome.