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Hang in I will need to ask my friend where he found it. He showed it to me.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Everyone who has skin cancer should sue her for failing to protect them from her product which is clearly hazardous and not being managed regarding public health.

Very well played...

 Platuan4th wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
There was a guy in America who bought a superman cape. He then went home and jumped off the roof of his house and broke his leg. He then sued the producers of the cape for $20 million because it didn't say on the box that the cape didn't enable the ability to fly...

He won...
This is true

It's so true that I can't find anything about it. Link?

I'm still looking but this was done after the case as a precaution I believe: http://www.forbes.com/2010/01/29/safety-caution-product-liability-entrepreneurs-law-warning-labels_slide_11.html

Suprised Marvel owning the word "zombie" wasn't on this list.

Lucasfilm put a TM after 'nazi' in some publications. Most notably in the Indiana Jones RPG published by TSR. TSR have often been accused of trying to copyright the term 'nazi' but it was Lucasfilm behind it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-23697138

Its not only GW who appear to be over-sensitive , Red Bull are going after a small Norfolk Brewery for producing a beer called ' Redwell '

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Lucasfilm put a TM after 'nazi' in some publications. Most notably in the Indiana Jones RPG published by TSR. TSR have often been accused of trying to copyright the term 'nazi' but it was Lucasfilm behind it.

Thanks for that!

I try to mention it every time someone blames that on TSR - since TSR had plenty of their own stupidities, without adding Lucasfilm's silliness.

Sometimes I think that I am the only one that points out that Lucasfilm was behind that bit of IP snickery.... (It is also on the blisters for the old Kenner Indiana Jones toys.) Nice to be beaten to the punch for a change!

The Auld Grump

Shame Al Gore made the internet or i would claim ownership if it and make everyone pay me for using it.

 Dynamix wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-23697138

Its not only GW who appear to be over-sensitive , Red Bull are going after a small Norfolk Brewery for producing a beer called ' Redwell '

Absurdly enough, it seems the problem is the word "Red". Apparently, this word is so associated with Red Bull that no one else in the drinks business can use it in a trademark. Guess they're coming after Red Seal next?

Backfire wrote:

 Dynamix wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-23697138

Its not only GW who appear to be over-sensitive , Red Bull are going after a small Norfolk Brewery for producing a beer called ' Redwell '

Absurdly enough, it seems the problem is the word "Red". Apparently, this word is so associated with Red Bull that no one else in the drinks business can use it in a trademark. Guess they're coming after Red Seal next?

Red Stripe ought to have a case against Red Bull , apparently Red Stripe is from 1938 !

 warriorpriest wrote:
Shame Al Gore made the internet or i would claim ownership if it and make everyone pay me for using it.

Ah but he didn't, he made the World Wide Web, nobody actually knows who made the internet, but it already existed before the world wide web (Source:Stephen fry)

EDIT: Well the second half was right, I barely remembered the quote when I typed the above so I'm glad I was half right

 warriorpriest wrote:
Shame Al Gore made the internet or i would claim ownership if it and make everyone pay me for using it.

He neither claimed to own it nor did he claim to have invented it.

What he claimed was that he was part of the initiative to move DARPA Net forward, and into public use.

Which happens to be true, the question is to what degree - but Vint Cerf gives him the benefit of the doubt.

I really wish that folks didn't take Bill Mahr's word on... well, anything, really. (In this case, Mr. Mahr even apologized, if I recall correctly - he was making a joke, which people then believed.)

The Auld Grump

*EDIT* Snopes article.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 warriorpriest wrote:
Shame Al Gore made the internet or i would claim ownership if it and make everyone pay me for using it.

He neither claimed to own it nor did he claim to have invented it.

What he claimed was that he was part of the initiative to move DARPA Net forward, and into public use.

Which happens to be true, the question is to what degree - but Vint Cerf gives him the benefit of the doubt.

I really wish that folks didn't take Bill Mahr's word on... well, anything, really. (In this case, Mr. Mahr even apologized, if I recall correctly - he was making a joke, which people then believed.)

The Auld Grump

*EDIT* Snopes article.

Hence the orc sticking out his tongue.......... really hard sometimes to convey humor/satire/sarcasm/ etc,,,,,,

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 warriorpriest wrote:
Shame Al Gore made the internet or i would claim ownership if it and make everyone pay me for using it.

He neither claimed to own it nor did he claim to have invented it.

What he claimed was that he was part of the initiative to move DARPA Net forward, and into public use.

Which happens to be true, the question is to what degree - but Vint Cerf gives him the benefit of the doubt.

I really wish that folks didn't take Bill Mahr's word on... well, anything, really. (In this case, Mr. Mahr even apologized, if I recall correctly - he was making a joke, which people then believed.)

The Auld Grump

*EDIT* Snopes article.

"...I took the initiative in creating the Internet. ..." I think we can give the jokesters a pass on this one. Al's got enough riyal to take the ribbing.

 warriorpriest wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 warriorpriest wrote:
Shame Al Gore made the internet or i would claim ownership if it and make everyone pay me for using it.

He neither claimed to own it nor did he claim to have invented it.

What he claimed was that he was part of the initiative to move DARPA Net forward, and into public use.

Which happens to be true, the question is to what degree - but Vint Cerf gives him the benefit of the doubt.

I really wish that folks didn't take Bill Mahr's word on... well, anything, really. (In this case, Mr. Mahr even apologized, if I recall correctly - he was making a joke, which people then believed.)

The Auld Grump

*EDIT* Snopes article.

Hence the orc sticking out his tongue.......... really hard sometimes to convey humor/satire/sarcasm/ etc,,,,,,

Sorry, I wasn't sure if you were razzing the claim or his saying it. Most folks seem to take it as a given that he made the claim, without bothering to find out otherwise - much like folks that take Washington Irving's statement that Columbus' sailors were on the verge of mutiny, for fear of falling off the edge of the world. (That was not true, either. Sailors knew that the world was round long before the church accepted it - they could see it with their own eyes, every day....)

Buzzsaw - as mentioned in the Snopes article, Gore used proper English.

He did not come 'close enough' - he in fact did help launch the initiative.

Vint Cerf wrote:Vint Cerf responded to MSNBC

From http://www.msnbc.com:80/news/249325.asp (which has apparently subsequently timed out). See also ``Revisionist Internet History.'' —jsq

Vint Cerf responded to MSNBC's questions about the Net's origins with this e-mail:

VP Gore was the first or surely among the first of the members of Congress to become a strong supporter of advanced networking while he served as Senator. As far back as 1986, he was holding hearings on this subject (supercomputing, fiber networks...) and asking about their promise and what could be done to realize them. Bob Kahn, with whom I worked to develop the Internet design in 1973, participated in several hearings held by then-Senator Gore and I recall that Bob introduced the term ``information infrastructure'' in one hearing in 1986. It was clear that as a Senator and now as Vice President, Gore has made it a point to be as well-informed as possible on technology and issues that surround it.

As Senator, VP Gore was highly supportive of the research community's efforts to explore new networking capabilities and to extend access to supercomputers by way of NSFNET and its successors, the High Performance Computing and Communication program (which included the National Research and Education Network initiative), and as Vice President, he has been very responsive to recommendations made, for example, by the President's Information Technology Advisory Committee that endorsed additional research funding for next generation fundamental research in software and related topics. If you look at the last 30-35 years of network development, you'll find many people who have made major contributions without which the Internet would not be the vibrant, growing and exciting thing it is today. The creation of a new information infrastructure requires the willing efforts of thousands if not millions of participants and we've seen leadership from many quarters, all of it needed, to move the Internet towards increased availability and utility around the world.

While it is not accurate to say that VP Gore invented Internet, he has played a powerful role in policy terms that has supported its continued growth and application, for which we should be thankful.

We're fortunate to have senior level members of Congress and the Administration who embrace new technology and have the vision to see how it can be put to work for national and global benefit.

I think that we can give the jokesters a beat to the head with a Louisville Slugger on this one.

If you don't know who Vint Cerf is. and why his opinion in this matter carries more weight than that of a standup comedian....

Gore's quote was taken out of context by a comedian that openly embraces being a Libertarian - he was voicing his bias, and nothing more.

Mind you, I have also heard pundits claiming that Al Gore 'invented global warming'....

The Auld Grump

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Sorry, I wasn't sure if you were razzing the claim or his saying it. <SNIP>

The Auld Grump

No worries. just was trying to throw a little humor in. Epic fail. LOL!!

 Dynamix wrote:

Backfire wrote:

 Dynamix wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-23697138

Its not only GW who appear to be over-sensitive , Red Bull are going after a small Norfolk Brewery for producing a beer called ' Redwell '

Absurdly enough, it seems the problem is the word "Red". Apparently, this word is so associated with Red Bull that no one else in the drinks business can use it in a trademark. Guess they're coming after Red Seal next?

Red Stripe ought to have a case against Red Bull , apparently Red Stripe is from 1938 !

HOORAY BEER!

EDIT2: And this (beating to death the issue of Al Gore) is really rather off-topic, so I'm going to spoiler it, single the battle hymn of the republic (or hum the imperial march, whatev) and leave the conversation be.

Now for a much further reaching example than those chosen by Cracked - The Donation of Constantine. The Pope owns it all, Baby!

The Auld Grump, what is a forged document or two?....

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

Spoiler:

As was, again, noted in the Snopes article - Create does not equal Invent.

The fact that folks today do not pay attention to the meaning of the words that they hear does not make the meaning of those words change.

It is more akin to Eisenhower taking the initiative to create the national highway system, or for Edison to take initiative to create the electrical infrastructure.

Neither Eisenhower nor Edison either invented or created those things - though it is more arguable that Edison invented the need for that infrastructure. Both created the initiatives that did create them.

That you do not properly understand the terms that Gore used, in the manner that he used them, does not make him wrong, nor does that ignorance make you right. Ignorance does not equal authority.

Now for a much further reaching example than those chosen by Cracked - The Donation of Constantine. The Pope owns it all, Baby!

The Auld Grump, what is a forged document or two?....

Wow. That certainly sorted me out, nothing like an accusation of "you don't get it mayun!" to lend rhetorical force to an argument. I suppose that I could point out that your examples undermine the point you are trying to advance. I suppose I could point out the hilarity in accusing a patent attorney, a profession that requires an intimate understanding of invention and what makes someone an inventor, of the nuances that underlie the claim of creator-ship and so, of being unfamiliar with said term. But that would be churlish. So let us be reasonable: I'm not going to change your mind. You're sufficient emotionally invested that disagreement with your opinion cannot be genuine, but must be the product of ignorance.

So instead, when someone wants to make reference to Al Gore as an exemplar of a pompous, unscrupulous windbag willing to aggrandize their own contributions, it is incumbent upon all of us to remember, Al Gore didn't claim to invent the Internet...

He claimed to create it.

Buzzsaw, did you quote the wrong post? Your response doesn't seem to match what AuldGrump is saying. What does Al Gore have to do with the Donation of Constantine?

Buzzsaw - look up the dang definitions of the word 'Initiative' - it has several meanings, and you have latched onto the wrong one mayun.

Getting angry about being wrong is not making you right, either.

Dictionary.com: wrote:in·i·tia·tive (-nsh-tv)
n.
1. The power or ability to begin or to follow through energetically with a plan or task; enterprise and determination.
2. A beginning or introductory step; an opening move: took the initiative in trying to solve the problem.
3.
a. The power or right to introduce a new legislative measure.
b. The right and procedure by which citizens can propose a law by petition and ensure its submission to the electorate.
adj.
1. Of or relating to initiation.
2. Used to initiate; initiatory.
Idiom:
on (one's) own initiative
Without prompting or direction from others; on one's own.

See definition number three? Both a. and b.? Guess what... Initiative was the right word for him to use.

Or maybe you thought that he meant 'roll 1d6, high die goes first'?

The Auld Grump - I should never assume that the other guy knows how to use a dictionary....

frozenwastes wrote:Buzzsaw, did you quote the wrong post? Your response doesn't seem to match what AuldGrump is saying. What does Al Gore have to do with the Donation of Constantine?

Check the spoilered quote in this post.



Hmmm....

 Buzzsaw wrote:
... So let us be reasonable: I'm not going to change your mind. You're sufficient emotionally invested that disagreement with your opinion cannot be genuine, but must be the product of ignorance.

Well clearly I was off there!

But in the spirit of fairness, let us run the substitution experiment: for myself, I would go with definition 2, such that the offending sentence is transformed thusly;

"During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet." becomes "During my service in the United States Congress, I took a beginning or introductory step in creating the Internet." That seems a relatively straightforward sentence construction that makes perfect sense, it suffers only from being a bombastic and self-important piece of puffery worthy of mockery. To come full circle, very much of the character of GW's claims vis-a-vis things like Space Marines.

But, let's use your construction (we'll use 3a which has the virtue of being shorter). The substitution is thus;

"During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet." Becomes "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the power or right to introduce a new legislative measure in creating the Internet." Herein lies the rub: that construction doesn't actually change the objectionable nature of the sentence.

That is, whether you think of the sentence as meaning a) "During my service in the United States Congress, I took a beginning or introductory step in creating the Internet", or b) "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the power or right to introduce a new legislative measure in creating the Internet", the offending part, which makes the sentence a bombastic and self-important piece of puffery worthy of mockery, is "in creating the internet".*

The statement is bombastic, meretricious, and above all else, a prime example of the unselfconscious self-aggrandizement of the modern politician. So it is, like GW's claims of owning the Chaos Star, the Inquisition, the Imperial Guard, a fit subject for mockery.

*The statement by Vint Cerf is delightfully artful in taking the wind out of Gore's boast; "took the initiative in creating the Internet" becomes "creation of a new information infrastructure requires the willing efforts of thousands if not millions of participants" and "it is not accurate to say that VP Gore invented Internet, he has played a powerful role in policy terms that has supported its continued growth and application..."

What is fascinating about all this is the way it actually illuminates the shenanigans that so often roil the hobby: so often, we wonder how GW can possibly advance the claims that is does? Well just look at this series of posts: I think AG is being far too generous in his assessment, while AG thinks I'm transparently wrong. And all over a single sentence, a mere 16 words!

eclipseoto wrote:
Hilarious. Especially since the whole techno-worship that 40k revolves around was stolen from The Foundation by Asimov.

There was a more proximate source, actually.

In the pre-Warhammer era, Games Workshop was a licensee publishing British versions of two American roleplaying games. The first was TSR's Dungeons & Dragons. The second was Traveller, Game Designers' Workshop's science-fiction game.

Traveller was (and kind of still is) set in the far future against the backdrop of the Third Imperium, a human-centered interstellar empire so vast and unwieldy that a semi-decentralized feudal system is the only way to manage it. The Imperial Navy polices the space between the stars, with the emperor projecting force on the ground via the Imperial Marines--elite power-armored troops that drop in from orbit. The Imperial Army, on the other hand, is a much larger and more diverse institution, with recruitment and force organization largely left to the worlds they guard. The Third Imperium's predecessor, the 'Rule of Man', was the only version of the Empire ruled from Terra. Far from being the good guys, the Terrans were highly xenophobic and totalitarian in outlook, complete with political officers not unlike Soviet Commissars. The Second Imperium collapsed in time, but its remnants remained in the sectors around Sol... And oh, yeah, ships travel between the stars by entering an alternate dimension called jumpspace.

Looking at the universe of 40K, it's easy to see some very specific elements of Traveller's setting poking through here and there. Just like there are obvious borrowings from different serials that appeared in 2000 AD and the works of Michael Moorcock. Just like WFB shows the strong influence of Dungeons & Dragons, the other game that GW licensed to publish for a British audience.

To be clear, none of this is intended as a slam against GW. I like 40K, and I think the setting is a lot of fun. But it's also derivative as hell, which is ironic given their attitude toward "their" IP.

Ah, Cracked. How I love you.

So it might be more fair to say Traveller ripped off Asimov and GW ripped off Traveller. Well, actually there were two intermediaries between Traveller and 40k as well. Laserburn and Imperial Commander. Both were written by Brian Ansell before he became managing director of GW in 1982 and were basically and attempt to make a "not Traveller" miniature game based on Traveller.

So pretty much the whole foundation of GW's universes is based on taking other people's ideas and claiming you own them.

 frozenwastes wrote:
So pretty much the whole foundation of the current IP system is based on taking other people's ideas and claiming you own them.

To be fair, the above is probably more accurate.

Add into that the fact that nothing is truly original or new and you have a problem.

 frozenwastes wrote:
So it might be more fair to say Traveller ripped off Asimov and GW ripped off Traveller. Well, actually there were two intermediaries between Traveller and 40k as well. Laserburn and Imperial Commander. Both were written by Brian Ansell before he became managing director of GW in 1982 and were basically and attempt to make a "not Traveller" miniature game based on Traveller.

So pretty much the whole foundation of GW's universes is based on taking other people's ideas and claiming you own them.

GDW was at least honest in where it got its material, and was unto the end of its days.

The only IP difficulties that I remember with GDW was over the cyberpunk elements of 2300 AD - R. Talsorian claiming that all cyberpunk are belong to them. That was settled by folks at Chaosium acting as uninvolved arbiters.

But, yeah... GW is claiming credit for reinventing the wheel. Worse, it is arguable that GW stole from material that they were at the time licensing from other holders - such as Judge Dredd, Dungeons & Dragons, and Elric.

High Elves with the word Melnibonean still on the tab... vulture headed bird demons (Vrock by any other name), that kind of thing....

Mind you, at the time they were a lot more open about borrowing from the greats. But most of those folks are long gone, now.