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I think people need to stop and think..the ETC is very hard and completely different to single events. One player could domi ate but if the team doesnt perform due to bad match ups..bad luck..poor play or possibly silly list design..you lose overall or draw. Overall we had a fantastic tight game against the US and i realy hope to see them next year.
After winning it last year..englands performance dropped marginally..i could give a run through as to why but overall i had a blast..met some awesome players..and beat kopach in what was known as the blob off haaha. Was a great game and looking forwards to seeing most of them at Nova in a few weeks
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/12 18:52:48
Would be interested on a break down of your games alex assume the teams performance will be on 40kuk podcast?. Also every problem faced by team america is encountered with every other etc team, location of players etc might not be to the degree due to size of us but factor in other issues its not just a tissue they face
40kGlobal AOA member, regular of Overlords podcast club and 4tk gaming store. Blogger @ http://sanguinesons.blogspot.co.uk/ 06/2013: 1st at War of the Roses ETC warm up.
08/213: 3rd place double teams at 4tk
09/2013: 7th place, best daemon and non eldar/tau army at Northern Warlords GT
10/2013: 3rd/4th at Battlefield Birmingham
11/2013: 5th at GT heat 3
11/2013: 5th COG 2k at 4tk
01/2014: 34th at Caledonian
03/2014: 3rd GT Final
The reality is with the size of our country, economic barriers, and logistical challenges, you're never going to have an even semi-provably "best" team of Americans, b/c even putting together America's "best" 8 (if you could identify them, which you can't) would create a lot of friction due to having 8 alphas who barely know each other being required to get along.
I will bite!
Andrew Gonyo
Tony Kopach
Nick Nanavati
Brad Chester
Alan Bajramovic
Ben Mohle
Paul Murphy
Reese Robbins
The last 2 are very good players and Paul gives the team a representative from the south (and not that carpet bagger Willingham), and Reese someone west of the Mississippi for a true team America. You can make an argument for a few others, but that is close to the 8 best IMO.
And I do not agree with your thoughts that 8 alphas can't get along. When united by country Americans step up. I will give you the example of the USA basketball team during the olympics.
Because it is a European Championship and the Europeans think that Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland are countries.
Which in fact they are... Think only in the Olympics do you have them all aggregated up. But in soccer, rugby etc.. They all field independent teams.
Think the issue is more of a team selection one than necessarily enough slots. Why not just have some of the bigger west coast tournaments like the BAO send their winner like the NOVA?
But again, now you're taking players that are literally 3000 miles apart and having them play together.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be some west coast representatives, but that's clearly a problem no other country on the list other than Russia could face.
USA fields only one team for many Olympic events (like, say, indoor team volleyball) but multiples in others (such as beach doubles volleyball). So, honestly it just depends on the venue how many teams are appropriate, imo.
Certainly, a country the size of the USA could be considered for 2 teams. But, since the format is not much practiced here, and the expense to travel to Europe is so great, I don't think people would want to field a second team, anyway (as MVBrandt already explained on the last page).
If we could avoid having folks look down their noses at entire other countries in this thread, though (i.e. the fact that Wales and Ireland are indeed countries, but also the several anti-US jabs that have been posted) that would be great guys. We're all here to enjoy the same hobby and international competition is a really exciting thing
RiTides wrote: But again, now you're taking players that are literally 3000 miles apart and having them play together.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be some west coast representatives, but that's clearly a problem no other country on the list other than Russia could face.
USA fields only one team for many Olympic events (like, say, indoor team volleyball) but multiples in others (such as beach doubles volleyball). So, honestly it just depends on the venue how many teams are appropriate, imo.
Certainly, a country the size of the USA could be considered for 2 teams. But, since the format is not much practiced here, and the expense to travel to Europe is so great, I don't think people would want to field a second team, anyway (as MVBrandt already explained on the last page).
The point regarding travel distance for practice is valid, however I would suggest that this should not exclude participants from the west coast or mountain zones. Doesn't seem to fair to me that because a bunch of the existing team is on the east coast that the west coast would be excluded because it makes travel to difficult. Or to put it another way, if the team was all west coasters would we want to exclude the NOVA open winner because it is to far to travel?
Because it is a European Championship and the Europeans think that Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland are countries.
Which in fact they are... Think only in the Olympics do you have them all aggregated up. But in soccer, rugby etc.. They all field independent teams.
So what makes a country is the fact that soccer recognizes you as one? Not being recognized by the UN, or your government, but by soccer. Wow! I did not know that.
We need to get ahold of all of the map people and get them in touch with the the rugby union to sort this out.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/12 21:17:49
Gotta agree. The USA has every right to multiple teams that the UK does. You're one country now, sorry. If you want to say that they "used to be separate countries" then we will send the entire state of Texas after you!
Yeah, I realize the history of it, but functionally all three are part of Great Britain, and should be rolled into one team. Otherwise you might as well have each US state field a team.
Having a US East and US West isn't going to break the competition, especially when the US is paying much more then the other countries to field a team.
I feel a need to continue to post that this is a subject already much discussed and decided upon, by the governing body and membership of the ETC. There will not ever be a 2nd US Team.
MVBrandt wrote: I feel a need to continue to post that this is a subject already much discussed and decided upon, by the governing body and membership of the ETC. There will not ever be a 2nd US Team.
Mike is right, there will never be a second US team.
Not only will the ETC never allow it, but you will never be able to get the16 of the best 40k gamers in the US to travel to the backwaters of Europe just for a tournament. By the time you fill out 2 teams, the talent pool will be very shallow.
I do not think that it has anything to do with the numbers of teams, but the selection process for the team might need revision. The England team did not win until they overhauled their selection process to get their best players.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/12 21:58:06
MVBrandt wrote: I feel a need to continue to post that this is a subject already much discussed and decided upon, by the governing body and membership of the ETC. There will not ever be a 2nd US Team.
Mike is right, there will never be a second US team.
Not only will the ETC never allow it, but you will never be able to get the16 of the best 40k gamers in the US to travel to the backwaters of Europe just for a tournament. By the time you fill out 2 teams, the talent pool will be very shallow.
I do not think that it has anything to do with the numbers of teams, but the selection process for the team might need revision. The England team did not win until they overhauled their selection process to get their best players.
The problem is any selection process is going to be questionable when taken against the size of the States in general, and when measured against public opinion.. I don't think even MOST people would agree you just listed a "best" Top 8. You just listed 8 players you think are great (which, as an aside, they are). You also ditched off the current Captain, who was around 2nd best points scorer at ETC this year. You can't even remove Greg from the team (and you wouldn't, b/c he's been solid as a teammate even if you don't like his decision-making approach for team building) because he's the Captain, and they can only leave the team by stepping down, and they name their successors. And that's not a knock on Greg or that status quo ... it's just how it is. At the least, Greg is using a process, instead of having the team be entirely comprised of his own personal "Best 8."
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/08/12 22:04:22
The issue with he US is how do you overhaul the selection process to get the 8 best US players? At some point it will come down to who travels the most and does well when the do. SO you can either take the winners of certain events and past players with experience which we do now or you do something like take the players with the highest average finish in the largest gts in the us.
MVBrandt wrote: I feel a need to continue to post that this is a subject already much discussed and decided upon, by the governing body and membership of the ETC. There will not ever be a 2nd US Team.
Mike is right, there will never be a second US team.
Not only will the ETC never allow it, but you will never be able to get the16 of the best 40k gamers in the US to travel to the backwaters of Europe just for a tournament. By the time you fill out 2 teams, the talent pool will be very shallow.
I do not think that it has anything to do with the numbers of teams, but the selection process for the team might need revision. The England team did not win until they overhauled their selection process to get their best players.
I don't foresee two USA teams in the immediate future, I admit. But, what is the process used by England? (Or other countries, to be fair)
But Blackmoor, there's a lot of overlap between your theoretical list of best 40k US players, and the requalifiers (for 2014?) listed below. So presumably the selection process is pretty good / getting closer to the ideal?
yermom wrote: Just to keep everyone updated we have the list of requalifiers based on performance:
Andrew Gonyo
Tony Kopach
Nick Nanavati
Greg sparks
Brad Chester
Also note that Alan has a very good chance of requalifying based on the wild card spot.
That's not to say anyone did notably poorly on the team. Also kudos to Ben for being a great substitution!
Maybe we need some sort of tournament with a similar format? We could give it a similar name, even....
all seriousness, the first consideration is "who is willing and able to go?" I know some great players, who lack inclination to spend big to fly to Europe and play 40k. Serbia isn't just a few trains away from the east coast,much less the west coast.
MVBrandt wrote: The problem is any selection process is going to be questionable when taken against the size of the States in general, and when measured against public opinion.. I don't think even MOST people would agree you just listed a "best" Top 8. You just listed 8 players you think are great (which, as an aside, they are). You also ditched off the current Captain, who was around 2nd best points scorer at ETC this year. You can't even remove Greg from the team (and you wouldn't, b/c he's been solid as a teammate even if you don't like his decision-making approach for team building) because he's the Captain, and they can only leave the team by stepping down, and they name their successors. And that's not a knock on Greg or that status quo ... it's just how it is. At the least, Greg is using a process, instead of having the team be entirely comprised of his own personal "Best 8."
The selection process is always going to be a huge issue in the US because the sizes of most states are the same as whole countries in Europe. Those countries have a lot easier time knowing who their best players are (since they are all at the same tournaments), but also the travel to the ETC is not an issue so they can have them all go.
I said that the selection process needs to be looked at and an open mind for all possibilities to find the best team for the US. There is also a lot to be said about experience with the ETC and their unique format that is also very valuable. No one will ever be happy with what ever it is, but it should be looked at.
And as a side note, I meant no slight of Greg because he is a very good player. You just asked me to name the 8 best in the US.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
RiTides wrote: But Blackmoor, there's a lot of overlap between your theoretical list of best 40k US players, and the requalifiers (for 2014?) listed below. So presumably the selection process is pretty good / getting closer to the ideal?
The short answer is that the team is getting better and the reason the team went from 19th place last year to 9th this year (and tied for 6th place in match points).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/12 22:36:16
The reality is with the size of our country, economic barriers, and logistical challenges, you're never going to have an even semi-provably "best" team of Americans, b/c even putting together America's "best" 8 (if you could identify them, which you can't) would create a lot of friction due to having 8 alphas who barely know each other being required to get along.
I will bite!
Andrew Gonyo
Tony Kopach
Nick Nanavati
Brad Chester
Alan Bajramovic
Ben Mohle
Paul Murphy
Reese Robbins
The last 2 are very good players and Paul gives the team a representative from the south (and not that carpet bagger Willingham), and Reese someone west of the Mississippi for a true team America. You can make an argument for a few others, but that is close to the 8 best IMO.
And I do not agree with your thoughts that 8 alphas can't get along. When united by country Americans step up. I will give you the example of the USA basketball team during the olympics.
I like that list! I think that is a perfectly acceptable team. I often find myself wishing Reece was included, then again he is a really busy man.
Because it is a European Championship and the Europeans think that Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland are countries.
Which in fact they are... Think only in the Olympics do you have them all aggregated up. But in soccer, rugby etc.. They all field independent teams.
So what makes a country is the fact that soccer recognizes you as one? Not being recognized by the UN, or your government, but by soccer. Wow! I did not know that.
We need to get ahold of all of the map people and get them in touch with the the rugby union to sort this out.
Las Vegas Open Head Judge
I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings or pride, but your credentials matter. Even on the internet.
"If you do not have the knowledge, you do not have the right to the opinion." -Plato
The best captain would want the best team. Look at the success of Ben Mohile. In terms of more than one team people need to know it was openly discussed and not a foregone conclusion by the ETC. Prestige should be set aside so that the US has the opportunity to do its very best. I think there is room for some improvement.
