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Rune Priest - chooser
Rune Priest

7 wolfguard PA - 4 combi-melta, 4 combi flamer, 3 combi plasma - drop pod
7 wolfguard PA - 4 combi-melta, 4 combi flamer, 3 combi plasma - drop pod
7 wolfguard PA - 4 combi-melta, 4 combi flamer, 3 combi plasma - drop pod

10 grey hunters - 2 x melta - drop pod
10 grey hunters - 2 x melta - drop pod
10 grey hunters - 2 x melta - drop pod
10 grey hunters - 2 x melta - drop pod
10 grey hunters - 2 x melta - drop pod
10 grey hunters - 2 x melta - drop pod

I have been playing with 5 pods and tau allies with great success. I think that the wolfguard can replace the tau and be more versatile. 83 PA models will be tough for anyone to deal with when properly applied.

Hmm... You seem to have a good way of dealing with Tanks, that's for sure. It's got 0 AA capabilities, though, and not a whole lot that can deal with AA. I obviously don't know your local meta, but Nids or Chaos/CSM will ruin your day. (Flyrants, Flying Circus, and Helldrakes.)
12 total flamer shots will be decent enough anti horde, but I'm not sure if you want the flamers in the same squad as the Plasmas. It gives versatility, but you'll be losing 3 or 4 of the guns in the squad depending on which one you choose to use.

Flyers aren't super scary - they kill a few dudes that aren't locked in combat. FMC's aren't scary either, as I have enough squads to ground and shoot up a couple a turn. Heldrakes scare me, and I have no answer to them. I hope that there are just too many models for them to swing the game. Obviously 3 of them end me, but I have yet to see more than one...

Let's say it is turn one. You've only got half your army in.
It would take literally all of the firepower you've got to ground and kill 1 Flying Hive Tyrant. That leaves 1700 points of enemy shooting at your 1000 points, essentially unscathed. Firing something that isn't designed to kill something else at that something else rarely works efficiently.

I agree to an extent, but what is shooting at me with tyranids? I would have to be particular about where the pods drop, but Most 'nid shooting is short ranged. I drop the pods to kill the flyrant and use the subsequent 4 pods full of marines more aggressively. Still not ideal, but I would not fear nids with that list at all. Enough horde control for little bugs and enough S* ap1 to finish the fatties. Chaos on the other hand...

Only problem with this list is that new reserve rules state you need to start with half of your units starting on the table.

I use SW droppods in my army, but rule wise you need to balance it with forces that be active turn 1 or survive a alpha strike from a opponent.

Agreed with the posts above my daemon flying circus list would salivate at the sight of this.

 Inigo Montoya wrote:
I agree to an extent, but what is shooting at me with tyranids? I would have to be particular about where the pods drop, but Most 'nid shooting is short ranged. I drop the pods to kill the flyrant and use the subsequent 4 pods full of marines more aggressively. Still not ideal, but I would not fear nids with that list at all. Enough horde control for little bugs and enough S* ap1 to finish the fatties. Chaos on the other hand...

Devilguants, Hive Guard, hormogants in general, the hive tyrant you haven't killed yet...
Plus, you know, they can assault you.

Am I the only one noticing this list is illegal?

 hazal wrote:
Am I the only one noticing this list is illegal?

Nothing is illegal about it. It's lopsided and missing important things, but it isn't illegal.

 hazal wrote:
Am I the only one noticing this list is illegal?

How?

pg 124 BRB
When deploying their armies, players can choose not to deploy up to half of their units (rounding up) keeping them as reserves for later.

Based on that alone he has 11 units that are effected by the rule meaning that at least 5 units must start on the table. Droppods (not the units inside) and fliers are not counted towards this limit.

 hazal wrote:
pg 124 BRB
When deploying their armies, players can choose not to deploy up to half of their units (rounding up) keeping them as reserves for later.

Based on that alone he has 11 units that are effected by the rule meaning that at least 5 units must start on the table. Droppods (not the units inside) and fliers are not counted towards this limit.

I only see Two, the Rune Priest.
Every Other Unit Has a Drop Pod as a Deticated Transport. So only one Model can not be put in reserves.

Yes, one rune priest hides somewhere that a backfield pod will drop and waits till it hits to join the unit.

My only real sugetion is to drop one of the Drop Pods to give your Rune Priest a Body Guard.

I dont really care if he dies, hope he doesn't, but the one in s pod is the warlord...

 Inigo Montoya wrote:
I dont really care if he dies, hope he doesn't, but the one in s pod is the warlord...

You could replace the both of them for Njal

... Units in the droppods are still counted as units that can be deployed. The only units that are not counted are ones that have to start in reserves, the units in the drop pods do not have to start in reserves so they are counted.

Units counted towards the reserve limit
Rune Priests = 2
WG = 3
GH = 6
Total of 11, not counting the droppods as they are not counted towards the reserve limit.

So RAW and RAI you need to start at least 5 units on the board.

Further to this if the opponent goes first and you have nothing on the table, he wins. Otherwise if you only put 1 priest (which is against the rules) on the table and he dies, you also loose. As a blood angel player with 6 droppods, 40 jump and 2 ravens, I am well versed in the limits of reserves and the rules. The list as presented breaks the reserve rule unless several of the droppods are empty upon entry.


*** the dedicated transports are not counted towards the reserve limit, the troops inside them are.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For the whole droppods are ignored for the reserve calculation thats pg 36 BRB, the other reserve rule stating half must start on the table is page 124 BRB

 hazal wrote:
... Units in the droppods are still counted as units that can be deployed. The only units that are not counted are ones that have to start in reserves, the units in the drop pods do not have to start in reserves so they are counted.

Units counted towards the reserve limit
Rune Priests = 2
WG = 3
GH = 6
Total of 11, not counting the droppods as they are not counted towards the reserve limit.

So RAW and RAI you need to start at least 5 units on the board.

Further to this if the opponent goes first and you have nothing on the table, he wins. Otherwise if you only put 1 priest (which is against the rules) on the table and he dies, you also loose. As a blood angel player with 6 droppods, 40 jump and 2 ravens, I am well versed in the limits of reserves and the rules. The list as presented breaks the reserve rule unless several of the droppods are empty upon entry.


*** the dedicated transports are not counted towards the reserve limit, the troops inside them are.

Preparing Reserves:
When deploying their armies, players can choose not to deploy up to half oft heir units (rounding up) keeping them as Reserves to arrive later. Units that must start the game in reserve are ignored for the purposes of working out how many other units may do so. A unit and its Dedicated Transport are counted as a single unit for these purposes. Independent Characters are also counted as a single unit regardless of whether they have joined another unit or not. During deployment, when declaring which units are kept as Reserves, the player must clearly explain the organization of his Reserves to the opponent.
First, he must specify to the opponent if any of his Independent Characters left in reserve are joining a unit, in which case they will arrive together. Similarly, the player must specify if any units in reserve are embarked upon any Transport vehicles in reserve, in which case they will arrive together.

 hazal wrote:
... Units in the droppods are still counted as units that can be deployed. The only units that are not counted are ones that have to start in reserves, the units in the drop pods do not have to start in reserves so they are counted.

Units counted towards the reserve limit
Rune Priests = 2
WG = 3
GH = 6
Total of 11, not counting the droppods as they are not counted towards the reserve limit.

So RAW and RAI you need to start at least 5 units on the board.

Further to this if the opponent goes first and you have nothing on the table, he wins. Otherwise if you only put 1 priest (which is against the rules) on the table and he dies, you also loose. As a blood angel player with 6 droppods, 40 jump and 2 ravens, I am well versed in the limits of reserves and the rules. The list as presented breaks the reserve rule unless several of the droppods are empty upon entry.


*** the dedicated transports are not counted towards the reserve limit, the troops inside them are.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For the whole droppods are ignored for the reserve calculation thats pg 36 BRB, the other reserve rule stating half must start on the table is page 124 BRB

Ok, incorrect on so many levels. Pg 36 clearly allows for all Droppods and occupants to be excluded from the Force Reserve Restrictions. So long as the Rune Priests are in a pod, he has no requirement to start any models on the board.


Pg124 clearly mentions that exclusion again as well, in addition to explicitly allowing ICs to to join and embark said transports.

Therefore he can start without any models on the board RAW and RAI.

Pg122 States "Game Turn" which means after both players have gone. Since during his first turn half of his Drop Pods will be arriving with their units so long as his opponent can't wipe him to a man before the end of the First turn he does not auto lose.

For someone who "As a blood angel player with 6 droppods, 40 jump and 2 ravens, I am well versed in the limits of reserves and the rules. " you really need to reread the relevant rules, especially the Deep Strike Rules on Pg 36 and Preparing Reserves on Pg124.

That is correct but the second part of the rule (which is not on the same page, BRB is awesome for that) is that you ignore units that must start in reserve, such as fliers and droppods.

Droppods pg 36; always start in reserve and hence ignored from the reserve calculation. This does not extent to the units that purchased it. The quoted rule from 124 would count for transports that dont have to start in reserves.

The grey hunters, wolf guard and rune priests have the option of being deployed on the table or in reserves regardless of the purchase of droppods.

Therefore you have 11 units (20 if counting droppods but page 36 tells us to ignore them for the calculation) out of those 11 units at least 5 have to start on the table at the start of a game.

 hazal wrote:
That is correct but the second part of the rule (which is not on the same page, BRB is awesome for that) is that you ignore units that must start in reserve, such as fliers and droppods.

Droppods pg 36; always start in reserve and hence ignored from the reserve calculation. This does not extent to the units that purchased it. The quoted rule from 124 would count for transports that dont have to start in reserves.

The grey hunters, wolf guard and rune priests have the option of being deployed on the table or in reserves regardless of the purchase of droppods.

Therefore you have 11 units (20 if counting droppods but page 36 tells us to ignore them for the calculation) out of those 11 units at least 5 have to start on the table at the start of a game.

Some units that must arrive by Deep Strike. They always begin the game in reserve and always arrive by Deep Strike. When working out how many units can be placed in reserve, units that must be deployed by Deep Strike (along with any models embarked upon them) are ignored. In addition, a unit that must arrive by Deep Strike (such as a Drop Pod) must do so even if you are playing a special mission where the Reserves special rule is not being used. Of course, all the Eternal War missions presented later do use Reserves,so you won't usually need to worry about this distinction.

And Drop Pods MUST Start in Reserve and Do not count for what goes into Reserves, alsong with any Squads that they are Deticated in.
The Two HQs do not, so he now has TWO Deployable Units of witch only one can be Reserves.

It comes down to the dedicated point. There is no rule stating that a unit that takes a droppod has to enter via the droppod, if there was you would be 100% correct.

However, the unit that buys the droppod has the option to either take the droppod or start on the table, therefore you must use them in the calculation.

So in short. The dedicated rule of the droppod only means what unit can use it at the start of the game, it in no way allows the unit inside to negate the rule of reserves.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rule 1: units that units that have to start in reserve are not counted towards the reserve rule

Rule 2: you cant half more then half your force reserved.

The confusing rule: units and their transport are counted as one for reserve calculations.


The key point is that rule 1 does not apply to the units in the droppods (they do not have to start in reserve), and same rule negated counting the pods towards the reserve allowance. So from here we count the units that can start on the table in regards to rule 2 being half of 11 rounding up.

I think we can all ignore Hazal aat this point.
Anyways...
Since you are playing Space Wolves, who lack AA anyways, you should be fine. If nothing else I'd drop the Rune Priest who has to walk and buy more wolf guard, but other than that there's little else to do without drastically changing the list.

 hazal wrote:
It comes down to the dedicated point. There is no rule stating that a unit that takes a droppod has to enter via the droppod, if there was you would be 100% correct.

However, the unit that buys the droppod has the option to either take the droppod or start on the table, therefore you must use them in the calculation.

So in short. The dedicated rule of the droppod only means what unit can use it at the start of the game, it in no way allows the unit inside to negate the rule of reserves.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rule 1: units that units that have to start in reserve are not counted towards the reserve rule

Rule 2: you cant half more then half your force reserved.

The confusing rule: units and their transport are counted as one for reserve calculations.


The key point is that rule 1 does not apply to the units in the droppods (they do not have to start in reserve), and same rule negated counting the pods towards the reserve allowance. So from here we count the units that can start on the table in regards to rule 2 being half of 11 rounding up.

How does this entry previously quoted not put an end to this?

When working out how many units can be placed in reserve, units that must be deployed by Deep Strike (along with any models embarked upon them) are ignored.

Hazal - you fail at rules.

I am going to look at a single priest and more wg bodies.

 Anpu42 wrote:
And Drop Pods MUST Start in Reserve and Do not count for what goes into Reserves, alsong with any Squads that they are Deticated in.
The Two HQs do not, so he now has TWO Deployable Units of witch only one can be Reserves.

The special rule on page 36, which you yourself quoted, says nothing about Dedicated Transports or the units to which they are dedicated. It tells us that, when calculating the number of units that can be placed in reserve, we ignore:

1.) Units that must be deployed via Deep Strike.
2.) Any models embarked upon such units.

There are no additional restrictions, stipulations, or requirements.

If the Rune Priests can be deployed embarked upon a Drop Pod (and pages 78 and 121 tell us they can be) and Inigo chooses to deploy them in that manner, then they are ignored when it comes to calculating how many units can be placed in reserve. It's that simple.

^^this

Drop pod ASSAULT!

everything in pods

Sorry for hijacking the thread on a rule point.

I am inpart pretty intense on this rule as I have had TO's come down upon it pretty hard since 6th started, and haven't seen a full pod list since then for that reason, I used to run a full furioso/Ras one in its hayday.

 hazal wrote:
Sorry for hijacking the thread on a rule point.

I am inpart pretty intense on this rule as I have had TO's come down upon it pretty hard since 6th started, and haven't seen a full pod list since then for that reason, I used to run a full furioso/Ras one in its hayday.

Tournament Organizers are free to modify the rules as they see fit. However, the rules provided in the main rulebook are clear about what to do when a model is embarked upon a unit that must deploy via Deep Strike (ignore it when calculating the number of units that can be kept in reserve) and how to determine whether or not a model is embarked upon another unit during deployment (see page 121). There is no stipulation that says to ignore models embarked upon such a unit only if they could not be deployed in another fashion. If a model is embarked upon such a unit, it is ignored. If it is not embarked upon such a unit, it is counted.