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 brassangel wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 brassangel wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
If boneswords become AP3, I think its possible that Rending Claws will be the preferred weapon for warriors.

Depends on the points cost of both Warriors and Boneswords.

I still don't get why people act like there are boatloads of armor save 2+ units running around that Warriors HAVE to be dealing with. AP3 means you absolutely slaughter every infantry in the game, short of the absolute hardest ones from Elites or HQ slots (which are all more expensive than Warriors anyway).

Its mostly cause warriors are essentially the Terminators of Nids (powerful, good at both shooting and assault, expensive, hard to kill (uness your opponent has a lot of S8), so naturally we wan themt to do well against actual terminators. If rending stay 5 pts to the bonesword's 10, I can easily see most people taking them instead.

But they aren't the Terminators of Nids. They are Troops choices, and mid-range Hive Nodes. They have great stat-lines, and will kill most infantry faster than Terminators will. The trade off is, they can't defeat a TH+SS unit of Terminators; but nothing really can without spending way more points. Tyranids are supposed to be squishier, not harder. Tyranids are about volume of attacks, not incredibly power-fueled, armor-obliterating precision strikes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Janthkin wrote:
CSM Terminators aren't more expensive than Warriors.

It's not that they HAVE to be dealing with heavy infantry; it's that that was the only niche the current codex gave them. In 5e, Genestealers were just plain better (and so were Raveners). In 6e, just drown whatever it is in poisonous 'gants and/or Gargoyles, until one of the big bugs can spare a few minutes to come over and smash it.

And CSM Terminators come standard with power weapons (AP3), yes? You have to pay points to give them anything else, and they are also in the Elites slot. Warriors are Troops.

The current codex didn't give them any niche. They were just bad in the current codex... because the current codex is bad. Tyranid Warriors are stuck in an awkward place, I agree, but they still slaughter pretty much every other Troops choice in the game. We get to throw gaunts and Gargs at Terminators, so I'd say that's a pretty fair trade.

To be fair, if warrior are getting T5/EW I have a gut feeling they are going back to the Elite slot, with possibly a way to unlock them as troops (Swarmlord?)

If they get those buffs, then yes, they will be Elites. As it stands, they aren't Elites, and shouldn't be played (or viewed) as such.

Do people really field Warriors solely to take on Terminators one-on-one? That's a pretty bad strategy if you do, and not really what they are useful for (and shouldn't be). Especially when, as previously stated, gaunts + any MC will do that with ease.

There just aren't enough Terminators in an entire tournament, let alone a single table, to warrant using Warriors that way. Warriors can slaughter the important, objective claiming units much more efficiently. Learn to use them to their strengths; don't be upset because they don't do what you envision they should do.

 brassangel wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 brassangel wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
If boneswords become AP3, I think its possible that Rending Claws will be the preferred weapon for warriors.

Depends on the points cost of both Warriors and Boneswords.

I still don't get why people act like there are boatloads of armor save 2+ units running around that Warriors HAVE to be dealing with. AP3 means you absolutely slaughter every infantry in the game, short of the absolute hardest ones from Elites or HQ slots (which are all more expensive than Warriors anyway).

Its mostly cause warriors are essentially the Terminators of Nids (powerful, good at both shooting and assault, expensive, hard to kill (uness your opponent has a lot of S8), so naturally we wan themt to do well against actual terminators. If rending stay 5 pts to the bonesword's 10, I can easily see most people taking them instead.

But they aren't the Terminators of Nids. They are Troops choices, and mid-range Hive Nodes. They have great stat-lines, and will kill most infantry faster than Terminators will. The trade off is, they can't defeat a TH+SS unit of Terminators; but nothing really can without spending way more points. Tyranids are supposed to be squishier, not harder. Tyranids are about volume of attacks, not incredibly power-fueled, armor-obliterating precision strikes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Janthkin wrote:
CSM Terminators aren't more expensive than Warriors.

It's not that they HAVE to be dealing with heavy infantry; it's that that was the only niche the current codex gave them. In 5e, Genestealers were just plain better (and so were Raveners). In 6e, just drown whatever it is in poisonous 'gants and/or Gargoyles, until one of the big bugs can spare a few minutes to come over and smash it.

CSM Terminators come standard with power weapons (AP3), yes? You have to pay points to give them anything else, and they are also in the Elites slot. Warriors are Troops.

The current codex didn't give them any niche. They were just bad in the current codex... because the current codex is bad. Tyranid Warriors are stuck in an awkward place, I agree, but they still slaughter pretty much every other Troops choice in the game. We get to throw gaunts and Gargs at Terminators, so I'd say that's a pretty fair trade.

And seriously, there aren't enough Terminators on the field for the AP2/AP3 discussion to matter. Tyranids have so many more ways of dealing with Terminators that Warriors can triple or quadruple their points by eating the rest of the infantry an army normally fields. Do you really field Warriors solely to take on Terminators one-on-one? That's a pretty bad strategy if you do. Especially when, as previously stated, gaunts + any MC will do that with ease.

I disagree warriors are the closest thing tyranid players have to terminators. They can easily be seen as an elite equivalent with WS5 3 wounds and a base of 3 attacks. As it goes they are also command units having synapse and what not. I also don't believe by just saying that something is in a troop slot invalidates its ability to be compared to as an elite, if that is so then terminators themselves shouldn't be considered elite either due to them holding a troop slot in some codecies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 brassangel wrote:
If they get those buffs, then yes, they will be Elites. As it stands, they aren't Elites, and shouldn't be played (or viewed) as such.

Do people really field Warriors solely to take on Terminators one-on-one? That's a pretty bad strategy if you do, and not really what they are useful for (and shouldn't be). Especially when, as previously stated, gaunts + any MC will do that with ease.

There just aren't enough Terminators in an entire tournament, let alone a single table, to warrant using Warriors that way. Warriors can slaughter the important, objective claiming units much more efficiently. Learn to use them to their strengths; don't be upset because they don't do what you envision they should do.

I don't think anyone is getting upset per say it is just a matter if perception as to wether someone considers them to be an equivalent to an elite or specificity terminators.

I suspect that if you mount it on a large oval base it will be fine....

 Lord Scythican wrote:


I was hoping I could finally use my cerebore, but I am betting it is too big...

 brassangel wrote:
If they get those buffs, then yes, they will be Elites. As it stands, they aren't Elites, and shouldn't be played (or viewed) as such.

Do people really field Warriors solely to take on Terminators one-on-one? That's a pretty bad strategy if you do, and not really what they are useful for (and shouldn't be). Especially when, as previously stated, gaunts + any MC will do that with ease.

There just aren't enough Terminators in an entire tournament, let alone a single table, to warrant using Warriors that way. Warriors can slaughter the important, objective claiming units much more efficiently. Learn to use them to their strengths; don't be upset because they don't do what you envision they should do.

As of right now I find it generally bad strategy to take Warriors at all. And actually, yes, bonesword Warriors are amazing at killing Terminators. It is only slightly harder for them to kill Terminators than it is for them to kill Tac marines... or Ork boyz, which very few units can claim. So the idea of taking Warriors for clearing "important, objective claiming units," is pretty much just as moot just as taking them for killing Terminators... in both cases "gaunts + any MC will do that with ease" - honestly couldn't have said it better. So how is it then, that a Warriors true battlefield application is killing objective campers??? Shooting them with deathspitters (queue rimshot)? I totally agree with you on this, having a unit built soley to kill Terminators is silly, but the truth is Warriors (and Shrikes by extension) are amazing at it - like absurdly effecient at it... so my take-away is that Warriors are, well, silly.

 BlackRaven1987!! wrote:

 brassangel wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 brassangel wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
If boneswords become AP3, I think its possible that Rending Claws will be the preferred weapon for warriors.

Depends on the points cost of both Warriors and Boneswords.

I still don't get why people act like there are boatloads of armor save 2+ units running around that Warriors HAVE to be dealing with. AP3 means you absolutely slaughter every infantry in the game, short of the absolute hardest ones from Elites or HQ slots (which are all more expensive than Warriors anyway).

Its mostly cause warriors are essentially the Terminators of Nids (powerful, good at both shooting and assault, expensive, hard to kill (uness your opponent has a lot of S8), so naturally we wan themt to do well against actual terminators. If rending stay 5 pts to the bonesword's 10, I can easily see most people taking them instead.

But they aren't the Terminators of Nids. They are Troops choices, and mid-range Hive Nodes. They have great stat-lines, and will kill most infantry faster than Terminators will. The trade off is, they can't defeat a TH+SS unit of Terminators; but nothing really can without spending way more points. Tyranids are supposed to be squishier, not harder. Tyranids are about volume of attacks, not incredibly power-fueled, armor-obliterating precision strikes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Janthkin wrote:
CSM Terminators aren't more expensive than Warriors.

It's not that they HAVE to be dealing with heavy infantry; it's that that was the only niche the current codex gave them. In 5e, Genestealers were just plain better (and so were Raveners). In 6e, just drown whatever it is in poisonous 'gants and/or Gargoyles, until one of the big bugs can spare a few minutes to come over and smash it.

CSM Terminators come standard with power weapons (AP3), yes? You have to pay points to give them anything else, and they are also in the Elites slot. Warriors are Troops.

The current codex didn't give them any niche. They were just bad in the current codex... because the current codex is bad. Tyranid Warriors are stuck in an awkward place, I agree, but they still slaughter pretty much every other Troops choice in the game. We get to throw gaunts and Gargs at Terminators, so I'd say that's a pretty fair trade.

And seriously, there aren't enough Terminators on the field for the AP2/AP3 discussion to matter. Tyranids have so many more ways of dealing with Terminators that Warriors can triple or quadruple their points by eating the rest of the infantry an army normally fields. Do you really field Warriors solely to take on Terminators one-on-one? That's a pretty bad strategy if you do. Especially when, as previously stated, gaunts + any MC will do that with ease.

I disagree warriors are the closest thing tyranid players have to terminators. They can easily be seen as an elite equivalent with WS5 3 wounds and a base of 3 attacks. As it goes they are also command units having synapse and what not. I also don't believe by just saying that something is in a troop slot invalidates its ability to be compared to as an elite, if that is so then terminators themselves shouldn't be considered elite either due to them holding a troop slot in some codecies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 brassangel wrote:
If they get those buffs, then yes, they will be Elites. As it stands, they aren't Elites, and shouldn't be played (or viewed) as such.

Do people really field Warriors solely to take on Terminators one-on-one? That's a pretty bad strategy if you do, and not really what they are useful for (and shouldn't be). Especially when, as previously stated, gaunts + any MC will do that with ease.

There just aren't enough Terminators in an entire tournament, let alone a single table, to warrant using Warriors that way. Warriors can slaughter the important, objective claiming units much more efficiently. Learn to use them to their strengths; don't be upset because they don't do what you envision they should do.

I don't think anyone is getting upset per say it is just a matter if perception as to wether someone considers them to be an equivalent to an elite or specificity terminators.

Terminators can be MADE Troops in some codices. You are also cherry-picking segments of my post in an effort to make a point.

Tyranid Warriors shouldn't be used to fight Terminators, or even compared to Terminators, because they don't fill the same role. They don't excel at the same things - in a vacuum, or as an overall strategy. Terminators are a wall and a bowling ball in one. They move slow, they don't have a lot of attacks, but when they hit, they hit very hard and are difficult to grind down. Warriors are light weight, can be quick, but have more attacks and a more efficient to-hit rate in combat.

The former can walk into other deathstars, hold objectives indefinitely, but are also far fewer in number in an army. They are also stupid expensive when kitted out. The latter can be a mobile Synapse unit, support smaller infantry, fielded in greater numbers, and slash all forms of light to medium infantry to bits.

The problem is fundamental: people (especially on the internet) compare straight across armies, not within the army itself. People don't focus on a units' strengths, they instead point out what they can't do. Or they look at what a unit in another book does and decide they want that for their unit. Armies play differently, units are used differently, and even if there are perceived similarities (though not real ones), that doesn't mean they need to be equally capable of the same things.

People "perceive" Warriors should be what Terminators are, but they are wrong. Opinions don't matter here; they are wrong. Tyranid Warriors are good by the fluff, and their stats reflect that. They don't need to be Terminator good, however. They will hit better (WS5), with more attacks, and have a larger presence on the field (due to greater numbers in the Troops slot). But they are squishier, and can't punch through Terminators. Nothing really does; that's what Terminators are. That's not what Tyranid Warriors are.

Why would we want Tyranids to just have what Space Marines have anyway; or vice versa? Then they wouldn't be Tyranids (or Space Marines).

 fleetofclaw wrote:

 brassangel wrote:
If they get those buffs, then yes, they will be Elites. As it stands, they aren't Elites, and shouldn't be played (or viewed) as such.

Do people really field Warriors solely to take on Terminators one-on-one? That's a pretty bad strategy if you do, and not really what they are useful for (and shouldn't be). Especially when, as previously stated, gaunts + any MC will do that with ease.

There just aren't enough Terminators in an entire tournament, let alone a single table, to warrant using Warriors that way. Warriors can slaughter the important, objective claiming units much more efficiently. Learn to use them to their strengths; don't be upset because they don't do what you envision they should do.

As of right now I find it generally bad strategy to take Warriors at all. And actually, yes, bonesword Warriors are amazing at killing Terminators. It is only slightly harder for them to kill Terminators than it is for them to kill Tac marines... or Ork boyz, which very few units can claim. So the idea of taking Warriors for clearing "important, objective claiming units," is pretty much just as moot just as taking them for killing Terminators... in both cases "gaunts + any MC will do that with ease" - honestly couldn't have said it better. So how is it then, that a Warriors true battlefield application is killing objective campers??? Shooting them with deathspitters (queue rimshot)? I totally agree with you on this, having a unit built soley to kill Terminators is silly, but the truth is Warriors (and Shrikes by extension) are amazing at it - like absurdly effecient at it... so my take-away is that Warriors are, well, silly.

Warriors can do it, but they are bad overall. What I'm referring to is there's no real reason for them to be used that way, and no real reason in 6th edition for them to have an AP2 CCW; by fluff or necessity. Tyranids swarm Terminators for the win, or run a Trygon into them. As per the fluff, Tyranids are often about instilling psychic madness and fear, Warriors are hardly a way to shake Terminators. One mid-sized bug against a Terminator? No contest. Send 400 bugs at them, or a few super monstrous ones? There you go.

Warriors need a more well defined role as a mobile Synapse unit, support for the smaller bugs, and an elite unit for taking on other forms of light-to-medium infantry. Otherwise, they are just expensive Genestealers, or slower Raveners.

@ brassangel

Ok sir I stand corrected apparently someone Is getting upset. Your right in some codecies terminators can be MADE troops and in at least one I can think of they ARE troops (hey look I can use capital letters too).

The point is I didn't say warriors are terminators nor did I say that they are almost exactly like them , I said that they are the closest thing that tyranids have to terminators. You also act as if I am unable to do basic math well lets see your standard terminator THSS is 40 points per model with no additions able to be made to it, so now you have a warrior 30 points per model base add a other 15 for lash whip and bone sword per model and now add another 5 per model for adrenal glands hmmm well ill be that must 50 points a model but you know what terminators are stupid expensive compared to tyranid warriors. You point out everything terminators can do i offer no debate you are correct on every aspect but I would argue that warriors can fill the same role in the tyranid codex and can be compared to terminators as an elite which was my original point.

Lastly I find your argument to while passionate and your point of view fine I would appreciate it if you don't come swooping in an tell me that "opinions don't matter here they are wrong". Now I am not sure if you we're trying to say my opinion was wrong or I was wrong for having an opinion either is somewhat insulting. We are on this forum to discuss rumors which I am pretty sure are going to be opinionated from everyone.

The only armies that can put out massed 2+ saves well in my mind are GKT spam and Sanguinary Guard...both of which are units warriors never really wanted to touch anyways.

 Lord Scythican wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
Well, the Cerebore is a transport in the fluff (a burrower, IIRC). It's also important to note that unlike the Exocrine and Malefactor, the Cerebore isn't a classic Epic unit -- I believe it's first appearance was in the CCG. So that'd get around the studio's issues with using the Epic names.

If we do get a Cerebore, it'll be interesting to see how it operates. The obvious rules interpretation of its fluff would be to have it operate much like a drop pod, which seems like territory already covered by spores. Perhaps spore-like delivery combined with Mawloc-like entry effects? Who knows?

I think it's very likely that you can consider this to be a drop pod that starts on the field and has legs...think tervigon for any kind of unit that can currently be podded...but you only get one birthing.

I was hoping I could finally use my cerebore, but I am betting it is too big...

Does that thing have a younger sister?

 ductvader wrote:
The only armies that can put out massed 2+ saves well in my mind are GKT spam and Sanguinary Guard...both of which are units warriors never really wanted to touch anyways.

Don't forget about Deathwing

TechMarine1 wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
The only armies that can put out massed 2+ saves well in my mind are GKT spam and Sanguinary Guard...both of which are units warriors never really wanted to touch anyways.

Don't forget about Deathwing

Key word was massed 2+ saves WELL. DW are way too expensive now...

I'm getting excited for nids, I've persevered through 3 editions with them and with 6th being the most balanced set so far I have high hopes that I can use more than one build effectively.

Okay, digression over. Back on topic now.

I could see the Mycetic Spore/other transport monster kit working perfectly fine. Remove an abdominal sac, flip the torso upside down, and you've got a completely different bug. That wouldn't make it too dissimilar to the Necron Ghost Ark.

I remember before Eldar, Tau, and Chaos Space Marines, we had a boatload of rumors (like these); some true, some not. Then we had silence for 3-4 weeks before the juicy stuff started hitting.

Over/under on that happening again?

 brassangel wrote:
I remember before Eldar, Tau, and Chaos Space Marines, we had a boatload of rumors (like these); some true, some not. Then we had silence for 3-4 weeks before the juicy stuff started hitting.

Over/under on that happening again?

This is most likely what GW is planning yes.

 ductvader wrote:

 brassangel wrote:
I remember before Eldar, Tau, and Chaos Space Marines, we had a boatload of rumors (like these); some true, some not. Then we had silence for 3-4 weeks before the juicy stuff started hitting.

Over/under on that happening again?

This is most likely what GW is planning yes.

A part of me wonders if GW leaks some of the information on purpose. Some stuff they play-tested, some stuff complete bologna, and some the real deal. With how little we get from the reliable old mongers (Harry and Hastings - the latter of whom has retired from that role), it seems we get this plop storm with every codex. Even Harry only gives us tentative release orders without any real details anymore.

I'll bet you lunch GW is leaking a lot of this themselves. All these new accounts showing up and their first post is a detailed rumor about something 3 weeks away?

Yup, smells like an inside job.

Whatever the case is, I'm excited for Tyranids if November is the date.

 brassangel wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 brassangel wrote:
I remember before Eldar, Tau, and Chaos Space Marines, we had a boatload of rumors (like these); some true, some not. Then we had silence for 3-4 weeks before the juicy stuff started hitting.

Over/under on that happening again?

This is most likely what GW is planning yes.

A part of me wonders if GW leaks some of the information on purpose. Some stuff they play-tested, some stuff complete bologna, and some the real deal. With how little we get from the reliable old mongers (Harry and Hastings - the latter of whom has retired from that role), it seems we get this plop storm with every codex. Even Harry only gives us tentative release orders without any real details anymore.

I have been saying that for a while now. It's GW who is releasing them, or giving the people to give out the rumours. This way we JUMP on it and we CREATE the HYPE for the upcoming release, at least on the internet. It's FREE for GW. Just look at GW "teaser videos", they can't create this much hype without us doing it for them.

 SickSix wrote:
I'll bet you lunch GW is leaking a lot of this themselves. All these new accounts showing up and their first post is a detailed rumor about something 3 weeks away?

Yup, smells like an inside job.

There was a second rumor monger on the grassy knoll!

Must resist bugs army!! Used to have about 3k pts worth back in 2nd edition and loved them. Maybe if I do an all warrior army it wont take up so much room lol

Been wanting to do bugs for ages .... Held off for new rules, so I'm excited for a new book finally.

Davor wrote:

 brassangel wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 brassangel wrote:
I remember before Eldar, Tau, and Chaos Space Marines, we had a boatload of rumors (like these); some true, some not. Then we had silence for 3-4 weeks before the juicy stuff started hitting.

Over/under on that happening again?

This is most likely what GW is planning yes.

A part of me wonders if GW leaks some of the information on purpose. Some stuff they play-tested, some stuff complete bologna, and some the real deal. With how little we get from the reliable old mongers (Harry and Hastings - the latter of whom has retired from that role), it seems we get this plop storm with every codex. Even Harry only gives us tentative release orders without any real details anymore.

I have been saying that for a while now. It's GW who is releasing them, or giving the people to give out the rumours. This way we JUMP on it and we CREATE the HYPE for the upcoming release, at least on the internet. It's FREE for GW. Just look at GW "teaser videos", they can't create this much hype without us doing it for them.

And people claim they aren't hyping their stuff months in advance...

Sure, the interwebs wants full pictures, stats, and points costs 6 months out, but their sales trends since going hush-hush has given them NO REASON to do that. This allows them to build hype without truly spoiling anything, and saves the real analysis of units for when actual time has been spent on the table top. (That's a rant for a different thread.)

To be fair, I have no clue if this is what they are up to, or if it's just blind luck for them.

 brassangel wrote:
To be fair, I have no clue if this is what they are up to, or if it's just blind luck for them.

So the options are evil manipulative corporate masterminds plotting in a dark room, or social media incompetent luckers with crappy employee control.

I always assume half the hypers for anything on the internet are corporate plants.

New video game? New movie? New GW stuff? New Taco Bell Doritos Locos flavor? Any company can get easy marketing by having their employees, who probably frequent some sort of board already, start hyping it up.

 HoverBoy wrote:

 brassangel wrote:
To be fair, I have no clue if this is what they are up to, or if it's just blind luck for them.

So the options are evil manipulative corporate masterminds plotting in a dark room, or social media incompetent luckers with crappy employee control.

Not all corporate think-tanks are evil or manipulative just because they have marketing ideas that don't cost much. I think it's just smart to do it that way.

Most of what's found on social media is incompetence of the individual, not the company said individual works for.

Still looks awesome, can't wait!

But no TL Devs on Tyrants? Thank God I magnetised

 The Shadow wrote:
Still looks awesome, can't wait!

But no TL Devs on Tyrants? Thank God I magnetised

And thank god I sold all my (badly) painted Nid stuff so I can start from scratch

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:
Still looks awesome, can't wait!

But no TL Devs on Tyrants? Thank God I magnetised

And thank god I sold all my (badly) painted Nid stuff so I can start from scratch

I nearly sold all my Nid stuff as well. Hopefully I'll have made the right decision and a lot of the relatively useless things I've got now will find a use in the new Codex.