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Oh I wasn't implying they won't give them actual models in 6th edition. Just that I get irritated when people say 'But GW don't sell Shrikes!', they do, through a Forgeworld conversion kit. Or 'GW don't sell a Prime model!', they do, it's a Warrior. Or 'GW don't sell Ymgarl Genestealers!', they do, they're Genestealers with the Feeder Tendril head.

I get the legitimate complaints about the Harpy, Mycetic Spore and some of the characters, but the majority of 'But GW don't sell it!' complaints are simply false. Either they sell them through Forgeworld (which is still GW) or they intended for other parts of a kit to be used (eg Ymgarls and Primes). They're just typical cryptic GW when it comes to telling people this.

 -Loki- wrote:
Oh I wasn't implying they won't give them actual models in 6th edition. Just that I get irritated when people say 'But GW don't sell Shrikes!', they do, through a Forgeworld conversion kit. Or 'GW don't sell a Prime model!', they do, it's a Warrior. Or 'GW don't sell Ymgarl Genestealers!', they do, they're Genestealers with the Feeder Tendril head.

I get the legitimate complaints about the Harpy, Mycetic Spore and some of the characters, but the majority of 'But GW don't sell it!' complaints are simply false. Either they sell them through Forgeworld (which is still GW) or they intended for other parts of a kit to be used (eg Ymgarls and Primes). They're just typical cryptic GW when it comes to telling people this.

Ehhh. I disagree. Using feeder tendrils to represent Ymgarls is an agreed social contract, not a GW convention. They have never stated anywhere that Ymgarls are genestealers with those specific heads. As such, in light of the Chapterhouse case, I'm sure they will do their best to make sure every single model is represented going forward.

I think its pretty easy to note what the guidelines GW is following are: all models should be represented, and where possible, they should be in plastic. They are making every effort to move all model lines from pewter/finecast to plastic, and I expect this trend to continue.

Edit: I basically agree with Brassangel. Its their business model: if its available to the army, you should be able to buy it. I'm not saying they will be able to do everything that Tyranids are missing in one go (though they might), but they certainly will try.

I did not say that they would not. Apologies if I 'irritated' you, Loki, although it wasn't a complaint (also I was specifically ignoring Forge World, because I was attempting to point out how much of a non-issue the situation is). As I have been saying for several posts now, I don't believe Tyranids are in a state anywhere near as bad as the Dark Elves are. Therefore, just because Dark Elves are getting a big release does not in any way imply that the Tyranids are also getting a big release.

They could entirely remodel OOE or they could simply add a few upgrade bits to the Carnifex kit, as with the Hive Tyrant/Swarmlord. Also, what Loki said is true - the Warrior Prime is no different to a standard Warrior. It is up to the player in how to make it stand out - much like a Space Marine Sergeant can be made from no Sergeant-specific bits but be easily recognised by his red helmet.

Don't get me wrong, I'd absolutely love it if Tyranids got a massive release. I just don't think that the Dark Elves are an indication of that, either way.



It is literally a Genestealer with Feeder Tendrils. If they do for some reason decide to make a Ymgarl model, I can't see it being anything more than a bunch of mutation-themed bits in the Genestealer box.

One more time. Big Dark Elf release does not mean big Tyranid release.

Saying a Ymgarl is literally a Genestealer, or a Tyranid Prime is simply a warrior is lke saying Space Marines don't need models for Veterans or Captains, because they are all space marines. Yet they do, so our ' complaints' about not having a model for our veterans or captains is completely legit in my opinion. I would really like to see what Games Workshop can do with a new Genestealer Ymgarl model, or Prime for that matter.

MadmanMSU wrote:
Ehhh. I disagree. Using feeder tendrils to represent Ymgarls is an agreed social contract, not a GW convention. They have never stated anywhere that Ymgarls are genestealers with those specific heads. As such, in light of the Chapterhouse case, I'm sure they will do their best to make sure every single model is represented going forward.

I think the Ymgarl issue is more than a social contract. In the previous Nid Codex, there was an entry instructing you on how Ymgarl Stealers were equipped. The codex specifically says that they have the feeder tendril biomorph. So I think that there is a standard GW convention for how they're supposed to look. Plus, there's the GW artwork.

That said, GW has changed its convention on what constitutes a Ymgarl Stealer. Along with the feeder tendrils, they were stated to have Scything talons (and maybe other biomorphs, I forget). The current entry on Ymgarls don't have the scything talons, so there's some evolution in terms of what GW puts forth.

Without going into wishlisting what kits do you think will get a serious rules update/change in the new codex?
Is it safe to assume any and all that have undersold is a good place to start?
What about Carnifexes just as an example? I think(?) they sold quite well in 4th when Nidzilla and their build was great but not so well in 5th?

 Ratius wrote:
Without going into wishlisting what kits do you think will get a serious rules update/change in the new codex?
Is it safe to assume any and all that have undersold is a good place to start?
What about Carnifexes just as an example? I think(?) they sold quite well in 4th when Nidzilla and their build was great but not so well in 5th?

The thing with that line of thought is that two of our most iconic units, fexes and stealers which aren't much use at the moment, will still be selling well because of what they are, not what they do. However I am hoping of the units in the des, that they get fixed the most.

I wouldn't be surprised if they redo the Genestealers kit, that set is pretty old isn't it?

 feluca wrote:
Saying a Ymgarl is literally a Genestealer, or a Tyranid Prime is simply a warrior is lke saying Space Marines don't need models for Veterans or Captains, because they are all space marines. Yet they do, so our ' complaints' about not having a model for our veterans or captains is completely legit in my opinion. I would really like to see what Games Workshop can do with a new Genestealer Ymgarl model, or Prime for that matter.

I really had no issue with it until I read this.

That said, I got some Ymgarl err. . . whatever they are called now from Chatperhouse and just run with those. A bit large on my run but utterly obvious to anyone.
To the point that I have been asked how I got so many of them done.

 Ratius wrote:
Without going into wishlisting what kits do you think will get a serious rules update/change in the new codex?
Is it safe to assume any and all that have undersold is a good place to start?
What about Carnifexes just as an example? I think(?) they sold quite well in 4th when Nidzilla and their build was great but not so well in 5th?

I'd expect Tervigons getting nerfed and Tyrannofexes getting boosted, so everyone has to buy that big kit again.

Regarding Carnifex, Dakkafex is the popular choice now, so again that one might be nerfed while the other variants could get a boost (some of the leaked rules suggest that, though these are probably fake).

Finally, it all depends on what unit is going to get a new kit. Most of all, if Harpy is going to get a new kit, it will probably be better than it is now.

 ergotoxin wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
Without going into wishlisting what kits do you think will get a serious rules update/change in the new codex?
Is it safe to assume any and all that have undersold is a good place to start?
What about Carnifexes just as an example? I think(?) they sold quite well in 4th when Nidzilla and their build was great but not so well in 5th?

I'd expect Tervigons getting nerfed and Tyrannofexes getting boosted, so everyone has to buy that big kit again.

Regarding Carnifex, Dakkafex is the popular choice now, so again that one might be nerfed while the other variants could get a boost (some of the leaked rules suggest that, though these are probably fake).

Finally, it all depends on what unit is going to get a new kit. Most of all, if Harpy is going to get a new kit, it will probably be better than it is now.

A buff to the Harpy is almost a must.

If it's in plastic already.... not much change (just a light frosting of 6th edition)

it's the stuff without plastic kit (or never seen before) where the meat of things will be

I can see the Harpy being buffed, maybe with options (or a dual kit) to run it as either an air-to-ground or air-to-air platform. Especially with the current trend of "everyone gets a flyer". That said, did they add the Stormraven to the new SM codex?

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
That said, did they add the Stormraven to the new SM codex?

Yes.

-Loki- wrote:Oh I wasn't implying they won't give them actual models in 6th edition. Just that I get irritated when people say 'But GW don't sell Shrikes!', they do, through a Forgeworld conversion kit. Or 'GW don't sell a Prime model!', they do, it's a Warrior. Or 'GW don't sell Ymgarl Genestealers!', they do, they're Genestealers with the Feeder Tendril head.

I get the legitimate complaints about the Harpy, Mycetic Spore and some of the characters, but the majority of 'But GW don't sell it!' complaints are simply false. Either they sell them through Forgeworld (which is still GW) or they intended for other parts of a kit to be used (eg Ymgarls and Primes). They're just typical cryptic GW when it comes to telling people this.

Frozen Ocean wrote:I did not say that they would not. Apologies if I 'irritated' you, Loki, although it wasn't a complaint (also I was specifically ignoring Forge World, because I was attempting to point out how much of a non-issue the situation is). As I have been saying for several posts now, I don't believe Tyranids are in a state anywhere near as bad as the Dark Elves are. Therefore, just because Dark Elves are getting a big release does not in any way imply that the Tyranids are also getting a big release.

They could entirely remodel OOE or they could simply add a few upgrade bits to the Carnifex kit, as with the Hive Tyrant/Swarmlord. Also, what Loki said is true - the Warrior Prime is no different to a standard Warrior. It is up to the player in how to make it stand out - much like a Space Marine Sergeant can be made from no Sergeant-specific bits but be easily recognised by his red helmet.

Don't get me wrong, I'd absolutely love it if Tyranids got a massive release. I just don't think that the Dark Elves are an indication of that, either way.



It is literally a Genestealer with Feeder Tendrils. If they do for some reason decide to make a Ymgarl model, I can't see it being anything more than a bunch of mutation-themed bits in the Genestealer box.

One more time. Big Dark Elf release does not mean big Tyranid release.

No one said it does mean a big Tyranid release; in fact, I think someone asked if they thought it could mean Tyranids will get one. It was purely speculative. Way to draw the wrong conclusions about other poster's implications (as usual) though.

A Space Marine sergeant comes in the Tactical Squad box, so no, it's not up to the player. The Tyranid Warriors kit was made before there were rules for the Prime, and there are no bits for the Prime in the kit. The Genestealers kit came before there were rules for Ymgarls, when Feeder Tendrils was a biomorph option that offered Preferred Enemy. GW therefore released those kits before rules for the units existed. While there may have been an implication to use those kits for such a purpose at one time, given that they weren't made for those unit entries, and now with the ChapterHouse lawsuit, there is NO WAY GW allows the miniature to just be up to the gamers. They will get their own models.

Your assumption that it's up to the player may have made sense (though without evidence) in a previous edition, but not now; not since the CH lawsuit. It is because Tyranids lend themselves to such heavy conversion opportunities by 3rd party vendors that I fully expect GW to erase that as best they can. Games Workshop wants to make money. They want you to buy their Tyranid Prime; not buy bits from another vendor to use with old models that you aren't spending money on anymore because you already have them.

Based on what I have been told, I do know that you are wrong about this. You aren't often wrong, but in this, you are completely wrong. GW won't just leave the Tyranid characters and units up to conversion just because you (incorrectly) think "it's up to the players." Like Necrons, who got every special character and generic character represented; like Space Marines who got the same; like Tau, etc., Tyranids will have every model represented by name.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
I did not say that they would not.
...
Don't get me wrong, I'd absolutely love it if Tyranids got a massive release. I just don't think that the Dark Elves are an indication of that, either way.

I said nothing about GW leaving it be. I didn't say that "up to the players" means GW will not release a kit. The Space Marine Sergeant example was about how you could paint a helmet red on any standard Tactical Marine and you could call him your Sergeant. You don't need to use the special helmet, shoulders, or chest. That is the part that is "up to the players". It is not "an assumption"; denying hypothetical usage of this hypothetical Sergeant, just because he doesn't have the little extra tidbits on his armour, is completely unreasonable. I didn't say that these things that are "up to the players" have any bearing on whether GW will release a set or not, I said that the gaps in the range are not crippling. The Prime and Doom are so similar to their species that they would do just fine without a model. That is not to say that GW will not release a model for them. Similarly, Ymgarls are very easily created from Feeder Tendril Genestealers - is not to say that there won't be a Ymgarl kit, but that the current state of being without a model is essentially a non-issue.

I did not say that they would not create these models. Indeed, it's quite probable. What I was saying was that, although there are gaps in the range, they are not huge, not things that warrant a big release. As Loki said at the top of this page, I wasn't implying that they won't give them actual models in 6th edition. There just had to be a big drama about it.

Way to draw the wrong conclusions about other poster's implications (as usual) though.

Way to add in a totally necessary bit of flame, there.

 brassangel wrote:

BACK ON TOPIC: With the Dark Elves getting a bigger than normal release, are some earlier suspicions of a larger Tyranids (and Orks) release possible?

Please, tell me, what wrong conclusion did I draw from this?

My only point was that a big Dark Elf release has no bearing on a big Tyranid release. Can we drop it now, or do we have to go through another page of misunderstandings?

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
My only point was that a big Dark Elf release has no bearing on a big Tyranid release. Can we drop it now, or do we have to go through another page of misunderstandings?

We can (and will) totally drop it now.

Just a thought, but if the rumors of SCs being rolled into units as brood upgrades is true (OOE into Fex broods, Parasite into Shrikes, ect) is there anything really keeping Ymgarl Stealers from being rolled into normal stealers as a 1 per army full unit upgrade?

I'd like to see a Ymgarl Broodlord HQ Choice that unlocks the ability to make Genestealer Squads into Ymgarls at +9ppm

MajorWesJanson wrote:Just a thought, but if the rumors of SCs being rolled into units as brood upgrades is true (OOE into Fex broods, Parasite into Shrikes, ect) is there anything really keeping Ymgarl Stealers from being rolled into normal stealers as a 1 per army full unit upgrade?

Why would they be one per army? Although, I can see them being an upgrade to regular Genestealers, something similar to a Mark of Chaos (ie purchase the 'Ymgarl' upgrade for the unit, grants certain special rules).

EDIT:

Bloodhorror wrote:
I'd like to see a Ymgarl Broodlord HQ Choice that unlocks the ability to make Genestealer Squads into Ymgarls at +9ppm

Sounds cool, although I'm not sure about it being an HQ choice. The Warrior Prime isn't as hardy as most HQs, but a Broodlord (without extensive improvement) would be a strange and weak HQ. Broodlords are more similar to Sergeants than to HQs, I'd say. Speaking of Broodlords, I do very much hope that units like it get a ballistic skill, so they can actually use psychic shooting powers (or at least a rule that allows them to reroll results of a power they can't actually use).

EDIT2: Actually, it's probable that the Broodlord will get the same treatment as the Aspiring Sorcerer, in that it will only be able to generate powers from a specific discipline from its own book.

ar to Sergeants than to HQs, I'd say. Speaking of Broodlords, I do very much hope that units like it get a ballistic skill, so they can actually use psychic shooting powers (or at least a rule that allows them to reroll results of a power they can't actually use). EDIT2: Actually, it's probable that the Broodlord will get the same treatment as the Aspiring Sorcerer, in that it will only be able to generate powers from a specific discipline from its own book.

A joint Genestealer/Ymgarl kit would make a lot of sense, _if_ GW want to recut the sprues - in theory it just needs some sort of backplate overlays to represent the heavier armour, and head variants to look more Ymgarly (feeder tendrils or whatever they want to retcon the fluff to be) which could be as simple as expanding the current decorative but not especially useful head selection.

Not holding my breath though - GW may have merely buffed the Genestealer rules, or ignored them entirely, and in either case left the kit as is.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Just a thought, but if the rumors of SCs being rolled into units as brood upgrades is true (OOE into Fex broods, Parasite into Shrikes, ect) is there anything really keeping Ymgarl Stealers from being rolled into normal stealers as a 1 per army full unit upgrade?

Yes. There aren't enough Ymgarl heads in the genestealer box.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Just a thought, but if the rumors of SCs being rolled into units as brood upgrades is true (OOE into Fex broods, Parasite into Shrikes, ect) is there anything really keeping Ymgarl Stealers from being rolled into normal stealers as a 1 per army full unit upgrade?

Yes. There aren't enough Ymgarl heads in the genestealer box.

This is true. There is but 'Ymgarl' head.

The most important rules (if they are true) in roughly descending order of awesomeness are going to be IMO:

1. "Ravenous Advance", depending on which units get it. This would help solve what is IMO the number 1 problem with nids at the moment: getting into decent assault range. With charging through difficult terrain being commonplace, but unreliable above 5 or so inches (without fleet), rules like this are much needed to balance the game. In fact termagants getting fleet would be a big boost too if true.

2. Psychic Shield. Finally an invulnerable save available for our most valuable MCs. Won't give any extra help against scatter lasers, tesla spam and the like, but will at least be guaranteed, and so will allow more aggression with tyrants/swarmlord.

3. Big bug's 12'' FNP bubble. If this is really true, it's massive. No more needing to pick and choose targets with catalyst and risk perils; just group your units tactically and have the big bug in position for incoming reserves. Of course it's a big target, but it looks like it will have at least 6 wounds, at worst 3+ armor, and with it's constant FNP and hopefully extra upgrades like Spore field (below) and/or (alpha) regeneration or even psychic shield, we should be able to protect it in some way. GW certainly haven't made the Riptide or the Wraithknight underpowered (to put it modestly), so hopefully they follow suit for nids.

4. Lictor's/Ymgarl's "Surprise" rule. Whilst this would nerf Ymgarls a little bit, i think they would still be very useful, and the Lictor would probably shoot up again in viability.

5. Spore Field. If it's true, another invaluable nerf against incoming shooting attacks. Of course there won't be much point having it on a flyrant, but I think an auto-include on a tervigon or a walking tyrant.

6. The Swarmlord being a god-like beast. If the Swarmlord really has all the stuff listed, then with his usual tyrant guard retinue, he will truly be a near unstoppable force. I'm suspecting they might make him slightly less of a combat beast, in return for the apparent protections he's now going to get, but he'll still tear almost everything to pieces. It looks likes he's actually going to be a proper deathstar MC now, with eternal warrior, 6 wounds, and 2+/4++. All that is golden, and will prevent him dying cheaply. Throw in his giving one unit FNP, 4 mastery levels, and 18'' Synapse, and he's truly awesome. It's just a question of cost. If he stays the same cost that he is now, I would say he's worth every point. I reckon one of the hardest choices in the new nid codex will be which of the seemingly awesome HQs to go for, as they will no doubt be pricy.

7. "Overlord" rule on the Hive Tyrant. Assuming a unit starts on the board, and is planning to assault, this will make that turn 2 assault that little bit more likely, by adding 3 inches over the two turns, which could be and often is critical. Coupled with Ravenous Advance this would add up an average of 6.5'' bonus over two turns (as in, 6.5'' more than in the current rules on average), which is a massive distance when it comes to making early game assaults, as charges are usually quite close at that stage of the game.

8. IWND standard on a Tervigon. I find this one unlikely, given a Tervigon will apparently still be able to buy regeneration, but if it's true, this is a great buff to our tervigons, which coupled with spore field will make tervigons even more annoying to shift than they are now.

There's obviously some nerfs for us too. SitW would go from a 43.5% chance of failing a power at LD10 to a 41.6% chance, so isn't much of a nerf, however losing the forced 3D6 would be a considerable nerf, due to reduced chance of perils, but this won't be a critical hit to nids. There hasn't been much word on Trygons either, and so I'm not sure how they're going to shape up in the new rules.

Cheers,

Tom

That would be an interesting set of changes. Make most Tyranids cheaper and more swarmy, while the Hive Node/HQ beasts are super powerful (but likely expensive).

Broodlords and before them Genestealer Patriarchs were far more powerful than 'sergeants'.

Hopefully we will return to that. But mainly I pray for a Broodlord model that looks like the art in the 4th Edition codex.

 Souleater wrote:
Broodlords and before them Genestealer Patriarchs were far more powerful than 'sergeants'.

Hopefully we will return to that. But mainly I pray for a Broodlord model that looks like the art in the 4th Edition codex.

You don't like the gearing up for super saiyan mode Broodlord?

I imagine they won't update that model, in light of everything else that needs to be made.

 brassangel wrote:

-Loki- wrote:Oh I wasn't implying they won't give them actual models in 6th edition

 brassangel wrote:
Based on what I have been told, I do know that you are wrong about this. You aren't often wrong, but in this, you are completely wrong. GW won't just leave the Tyranid characters and units up to conversion just because you (incorrectly) think "it's up to the players." Like Necrons, who got every special character and generic character represented; like Space Marines who got the same; like Tau, etc., Tyranids will have every model represented by name.

Seriously, first line of my fething post.

I never implied GW won't give us kits for these in 6th edition - just that when, right now someone complains they don't sell them I get irritated. They do, either through Forgeworld or intended use of another kit. It's not hard to figure out, it's not some complex equation to find out what kit was intended for use in 5th edition for a Prime or an Ymgarl. Right now, not in a 6th edition book.

Apologies if this was already posted, I could not find it elsewhere. Kinda new here, and was thinking of doing a 40k army. I Googled "New Tyranid Concept Model" and set it at "past 24 hours" and I saw several dozen pictures. However, this one stuck out. I couldn't save from the website, but saved the preview thumbnail. I can't read what is written either... Could this be the new Ymggrl (?) thingy you guys were talking about?