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Puscifer wrote:

 brassangel wrote:
I think Dark Elves will be October. The Inquisition thing will drop in November as the "holiday buy" and to give the Dark Elves some breathing room. The Hobbit will come in December alongside it's respective movie.

I expect Tyranids in January, but hope we are pleasantly surprised with something before.

I'm getting to that point... but there are so many conflicting rumors.

Only thing I can say though is GW have NEVER released two games in consecutive months. If I recall, there may also be something stated in the contract with New Line on the Hobbit too.

It just wouldn't make sense to release two games in 30ish days. It becomes difficult to support and doesn't give a single game to focus on and become the centre of attention.

Oooooo... Hobbit is out again... Nah, little Jimmy is still playing 40k skirmish cuz its 40k.

GW will be wanting to avoid this like the plague as the Hobbit contract is worth a fethton of money.

Interesting point. Then again, GW has done a lot of things they normally never do:

-release a codex every other month; army books on the months in between
-write most of the books for an edition at the same time, with each author overseeing every project for (relative) balance within the edition
-ensure every entry of the FO has a model

Puscifer wrote:


There is no random. No "cinematics", which for someone who works in the film industry, believes that GW has no clue how to be cinematic. By definition or execution.

Would love to hear you expand on this subject, perhaps in its own thread...

T

timd wrote:

Puscifer wrote:


There is no random. No "cinematics", which for someone who works in the film industry, believes that GW has no clue how to be cinematic. By definition or execution.

Would love to hear you expand on this subject, perhaps in its own thread...

T

I could rant on for pages on this subject.

ATM, I'm overwhelmed with moving house, writing my current script and keeping to deadline on a graphic novel.

It is something I have been asked to do before and I am very interested in writing an article and getting other opinions.

Maybe something I'll have a crack at when I'm less busy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 brassangel wrote:

Puscifer wrote:

 brassangel wrote:
I think Dark Elves will be October. The Inquisition thing will drop in November as the "holiday buy" and to give the Dark Elves some breathing room. The Hobbit will come in December alongside it's respective movie.

I expect Tyranids in January, but hope we are pleasantly surprised with something before.

I'm getting to that point... but there are so many conflicting rumors.

Only thing I can say though is GW have NEVER released two games in consecutive months. If I recall, there may also be something stated in the contract with New Line on the Hobbit too.

It just wouldn't make sense to release two games in 30ish days. It becomes difficult to support and doesn't give a single game to focus on and become the centre of attention.

Oooooo... Hobbit is out again... Nah, little Jimmy is still playing 40k skirmish cuz its 40k.

GW will be wanting to avoid this like the plague as the Hobbit contract is worth a fethton of money.

Interesting point. Then again, GW has done a lot of things they normally never do:

-release a codex every other month; army books on the months in between
-write most of the books for an edition at the same time, with each author overseeing every project for (relative) balance within the edition
-ensure every entry of the FO has a model

The codex release schedule has been both brilliant and insane. From a marketing and sales standpoint, it's a brilliant strategy by GW.

The dead opposite can be said about releasing two games in a thirty day period. It could be very bad for business, as already hardly anyone plays The Hobbit. Releasing the skirmish game this close to the release of it will just mean GW will lose even more money on it and that is something they can ill-afford to do with anything, but especially with the LOTR license.

But as with everything, we shall have to wait and see.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anywho... Back on topic...

Does anyone else think that the new Nids are going to be drastically powered up from 4th and 5th ed?

I still have a gut feeling that the book could go all OP and throw a huge curve ball to the way the top armies play.

Any news on who is writing the Dex?

Puscifer wrote:

timd wrote:

Puscifer wrote:


There is no random. No "cinematics", which for someone who works in the film industry, believes that GW has no clue how to be cinematic. By definition or execution.

Would love to hear you expand on this subject, perhaps in its own thread...

T

I could rant on for pages on this subject.

ATM, I'm overwhelmed with moving house, writing my current script and keeping to deadline on a graphic novel.

It is something I have been asked to do before and I am very interested in writing an article and getting other opinions.

Maybe something I'll have a crack at when I'm less busy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 brassangel wrote:

Puscifer wrote:

 brassangel wrote:
I think Dark Elves will be October. The Inquisition thing will drop in November as the "holiday buy" and to give the Dark Elves some breathing room. The Hobbit will come in December alongside it's respective movie.

I expect Tyranids in January, but hope we are pleasantly surprised with something before.

I'm getting to that point... but there are so many conflicting rumors.

Only thing I can say though is GW have NEVER released two games in consecutive months. If I recall, there may also be something stated in the contract with New Line on the Hobbit too.

It just wouldn't make sense to release two games in 30ish days. It becomes difficult to support and doesn't give a single game to focus on and become the centre of attention.

Oooooo... Hobbit is out again... Nah, little Jimmy is still playing 40k skirmish cuz its 40k.

GW will be wanting to avoid this like the plague as the Hobbit contract is worth a fethton of money.

Interesting point. Then again, GW has done a lot of things they normally never do:

-release a codex every other month; army books on the months in between
-write most of the books for an edition at the same time, with each author overseeing every project for (relative) balance within the edition
-ensure every entry of the FO has a model

The codex release schedule has been both brilliant and insane. From a marketing and sales standpoint, it's a brilliant strategy by GW.

The dead opposite can be said about releasing two games in a thirty day period. It could be very bad for business, as already hardly anyone plays The Hobbit. Releasing the skirmish game this close to the release of it will just mean GW will lose even more money on it and that is something they can ill-afford to do with anything, but especially with the LOTR license.

But as with everything, we shall have to wait and see.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anywho... Back on topic...

Does anyone else think that the new Nids are going to be drastically powered up from 4th and 5th ed?

I still have a gut feeling that the book could go all OP and throw a huge curve ball to the way the top armies play.

Any news on who is writing the Dex?

As long as we can win vs Tau, Taudar, Wave Serpent Spam and similar things then I will be happy.

I don't care if the codex is strong, weak or average. All I want is a fully customizable army, like the 3-4th ed codexes, perhaps with a flavour of the 5th Space Wolves codex customization options. That would keep me happy.

SBG wrote:
I don't care if the codex is strong, weak or average. All I want is a fully customizable army, like the 3-4th ed codexes, perhaps with a flavour of the 5th Space Wolves codex customization options. That would keep me happy.

Same here.

Puscifer wrote:

timd wrote:

Puscifer wrote:


There is no random. No "cinematics", which for someone who works in the film industry, believes that GW has no clue how to be cinematic. By definition or execution.

Would love to hear you expand on this subject, perhaps in its own thread...

T

I could rant on for pages on this subject.

ATM, I'm overwhelmed with moving house, writing my current script and keeping to deadline on a graphic novel.

It is something I have been asked to do before and I am very interested in writing an article and getting other opinions.

Maybe something I'll have a crack at when I'm less busy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 brassangel wrote:

Puscifer wrote:

 brassangel wrote:
I think Dark Elves will be October. The Inquisition thing will drop in November as the "holiday buy" and to give the Dark Elves some breathing room. The Hobbit will come in December alongside it's respective movie.

I expect Tyranids in January, but hope we are pleasantly surprised with something before.

I'm getting to that point... but there are so many conflicting rumors.

Only thing I can say though is GW have NEVER released two games in consecutive months. If I recall, there may also be something stated in the contract with New Line on the Hobbit too.

It just wouldn't make sense to release two games in 30ish days. It becomes difficult to support and doesn't give a single game to focus on and become the centre of attention.

Oooooo... Hobbit is out again... Nah, little Jimmy is still playing 40k skirmish cuz its 40k.

GW will be wanting to avoid this like the plague as the Hobbit contract is worth a fethton of money.

Interesting point. Then again, GW has done a lot of things they normally never do:

-release a codex every other month; army books on the months in between
-write most of the books for an edition at the same time, with each author overseeing every project for (relative) balance within the edition
-ensure every entry of the FO has a model

The codex release schedule has been both brilliant and insane. From a marketing and sales standpoint, it's a brilliant strategy by GW.

The dead opposite can be said about releasing two games in a thirty day period. It could be very bad for business, as already hardly anyone plays The Hobbit. Releasing the skirmish game this close to the release of it will just mean GW will lose even more money on it and that is something they can ill-afford to do with anything, but especially with the LOTR license.

But as with everything, we shall have to wait and see.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anywho... Back on topic...

Does anyone else think that the new Nids are going to be drastically powered up from 4th and 5th ed?

I still have a gut feeling that the book could go all OP and throw a huge curve ball to the way the top armies play.

Any news on who is writing the Dex?

I think they will be OP. They can't ally so to counterbalance I think they will make them pretty damn good. Who ever writes it will have that in the back of their head and that a lot of units need to get way better or drop way down to be viable. So they will be like "12 points a model, no 10 points a model" and gak like that will slip through the cracks, they need to do such an overhaul with them that more stuff will slip through weather it be for the better or worse.

Puscifer wrote:

timd wrote:

Puscifer wrote:


There is no random. No "cinematics", which for someone who works in the film industry, believes that GW has no clue how to be cinematic. By definition or execution.

Would love to hear you expand on this subject, perhaps in its own thread...

T

I could rant on for pages on this subject.

ATM, I'm overwhelmed with moving house, writing my current script and keeping to deadline on a graphic novel.

It is something I have been asked to do before and I am very interested in writing an article and getting other opinions.

Maybe something I'll have a crack at when I'm less busy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 brassangel wrote:

Puscifer wrote:

 brassangel wrote:
I think Dark Elves will be October. The Inquisition thing will drop in November as the "holiday buy" and to give the Dark Elves some breathing room. The Hobbit will come in December alongside it's respective movie.

I expect Tyranids in January, but hope we are pleasantly surprised with something before.

I'm getting to that point... but there are so many conflicting rumors.

Only thing I can say though is GW have NEVER released two games in consecutive months. If I recall, there may also be something stated in the contract with New Line on the Hobbit too.

It just wouldn't make sense to release two games in 30ish days. It becomes difficult to support and doesn't give a single game to focus on and become the centre of attention.

Oooooo... Hobbit is out again... Nah, little Jimmy is still playing 40k skirmish cuz its 40k.

GW will be wanting to avoid this like the plague as the Hobbit contract is worth a fethton of money.

Interesting point. Then again, GW has done a lot of things they normally never do:

-release a codex every other month; army books on the months in between
-write most of the books for an edition at the same time, with each author overseeing every project for (relative) balance within the edition
-ensure every entry of the FO has a model

The codex release schedule has been both brilliant and insane. From a marketing and sales standpoint, it's a brilliant strategy by GW.

The dead opposite can be said about releasing two games in a thirty day period. It could be very bad for business, as already hardly anyone plays The Hobbit. Releasing the skirmish game this close to the release of it will just mean GW will lose even more money on it and that is something they can ill-afford to do with anything, but especially with the LOTR license.

But as with everything, we shall have to wait and see.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anywho... Back on topic...

Does anyone else think that the new Nids are going to be drastically powered up from 4th and 5th ed?

I still have a gut feeling that the book could go all OP and throw a huge curve ball to the way the top armies play.

Any news on who is writing the Dex?

SBG wrote:I don't care if the codex is strong, weak or average. All I want is a fully customizable army, like the 3-4th ed codexes, perhaps with a flavour of the 5th Space Wolves codex customization options. That would keep me happy.

First of all, 3rd ed wasn't really a good codex. It was a mess. You didn't have styles of play, just a bunch of random bugs with poorly modeled biomorphs. "Look, I put stupid huge claws on my Warriors so he looks awful on the table top!" The Hive Node thing was a bad idea also; I don't want Sergeants like Space Marines have. I want Tyranids to rely on the whole swarm as a part of their cohesion.

4th edition certainly wasn't pliable. You played 5-6 Carnifexes and the rest didn't matter.

I want a variety of styles; I want strong, but not broken. In other words, I want a typical 6th edition codex, compensating for the lack of Allies in some way.

It won't go all OP. All of the 6th edition books play nice together. People seem worried it's either going to really really suck, or be really really broken, but there's been no indication of that recently. And that's just it: what happened in previous editions doesn't count. It's not a valid argument for what to expect.

The way I gather it, all the authors sort of collaborate to cross-reference each of the other books written for 6th. So while one guy's name ends up on it, it's really a compilation of ideas with one lead director.

 brassangel wrote:
ON TOPIC: I'm interested to know if Kroothawk still thinks Tyranids are coming in November. Not to heckle him, but because I was really hopeful for a November release.

We will see in WD or on Friday, if all Dark Elves are released in one month. Leaked list suggests strongly: No. Then 2nd wave (with pics in armybook) plus Inquisition box in November makes sense.
So at the moment January seems more likely to me.

 Tyran wrote:
As long as we can win vs Tau, Taudar, Wave Serpent Spam and similar things then I will be happy.

We can... It's a tough game but possible with the right powers.

True - we shouldn't have to rely on getting 2-3 Iron Arms just to compete, but it is possible.

Dont know if this has been mentioned cause I dont wanna go through all 33 pages to see, but so far right before the release of a new codex we see a new book about that race from Black Library. So, Im guessing we will see a book soon that is in some way or form about nids.

 lost_soul wrote:
Dont know if this has been mentioned cause I dont wanna go through all 33 pages to see, but so far right before the release of a new codex we see a new book about that race from Black Library. So, Im guessing we will see a book soon that is in some way or form about nids.

I have made those same observations in the past. If you look on Amazon & BL, the coming soon, there are a couple novels that feature Tyranids, Sept/Oct 2013...

 lost_soul wrote:
So, Im guessing we will see a book soon that is in some way or form about nids.

I was able to get an early extract from this novel:

 Kroothawk wrote:

 lost_soul wrote:
So, Im guessing we will see a book soon that is in some way or form about nids.

I was able to get an early extract from this novel:

Spoiler:

Herbert the Termagant
Chapter One
Nomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnom ....
Here the official teaser video:

Riveting! Looks like BL is making a quality come back again!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
************* HOWEVER *************************

Tau came out in April 2013 (the models) and 1 novel that had Tau in it came out in April 2013 (ebook),BUT in March 2013 TWO Tau dedicated novel were out, two ebooks in April, then July & August saw more....

So, if Tyranids have Sep/Oct 2013, with the above theory/formula, it would support Nidvember...

Kroothawk wrote:

 brassangel wrote:
ON TOPIC: I'm interested to know if Kroothawk still thinks Tyranids are coming in November. Not to heckle him, but because I was really hopeful for a November release.

We will see in WD or on Friday, if all Dark Elves are released in one month. Leaked list suggests strongly: No. Then 2nd wave (with pics in armybook) plus Inquisition box in November makes sense.
So at the moment January seems more likely to me.

Seems to be the case. At least we should know when to start expecting something more concrete then.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
As long as we can win vs Tau, Taudar, Wave Serpent Spam and similar things then I will be happy.

We can... It's a tough game but possible with the right powers.

True - we shouldn't have to rely on getting 2-3 Iron Arms just to compete, but it is possible.

The new book will thankfully move us away from depending on BRB psychic power rolls to have a chance in games.

 brassangel wrote:
The new book will thankfully move us away from depending on BRB psychic power rolls to have a chance in games.

Or maybe it won't. It's a bit early to start saying such things

 Vhalyar wrote:

 brassangel wrote:
The new book will thankfully move us away from depending on BRB psychic power rolls to have a chance in games.

Or maybe it won't. It's a bit early to start saying such things

Based on what we've gotten in 6th edition so far, it is not early to say such things. That's been the trend since Necrons: every book can stand on it's own and win.

 Tyran wrote:
As long as we can win vs Tau, Taudar, Wave Serpent Spam and similar things then I will be happy.

So as long as we can beat the most powerful codexes

I just want a genestealer cult

The Division Of Joy wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
As long as we can win vs Tau, Taudar, Wave Serpent Spam and similar things then I will be happy.

So as long as we can beat the most powerful codexes

I just want a genestealer cult

Everything since Necrons is among "the most powerful codexes." So if Tyranids are competitive against them with a variety of builds, then yes.

Genestealer Cult? No. Thank. You. There's not even going to be a way to fit that in the codex, really, and a supplement isn't going to be so divergent as to include a dozen new units.

Hell, I'd like an army that has more than one or two builds and can compete.

I also want the book here in November, but now I'm just wishing for things out of my control.

All I ask is that genestealers actually be usable. I've got a bunch of the buggers around that don't get much use anymore because they just so happen to be mostly terrible. Don't need a cult list but if they'd act like actual shock troops I'd be cool with that.

Not having to rely on flyrants would be a nice bonus.

I really hope it's still nidvember if only because it's more fun to say than niduary.

So were agreed that the red terror is obviously back in? I mean they made a fine cast model. And any thought on how much genestealers might drop in points? My friends seem to think they're great for 14pts but they're full of gak.

DufenDorgen wrote:
So were agreed that the red terror is obviously back in? I mean they made a fine cast model. And any thought on how much genestealers might drop in points? My friends seem to think they're great for 14pts but they're full of gak.

Compare a genestealer for 14 points against a demonette at what, 9 points? That's about the closest comparison I can come up with. Stealers are better, but not 55% better that's for sure. I'd estimate that if genestealers don't get any rules changes, they will be 10-12 points, with upgrades on top of that to drive them back up to the 14-16 range.

 brassangel wrote:

The Division Of Joy wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
As long as we can win vs Tau, Taudar, Wave Serpent Spam and similar things then I will be happy.

So as long as we can beat the most powerful codexes

I just want a genestealer cult

Everything since Necrons is among "the most powerful codexes." So if Tyranids are competitive against them with a variety of builds, then yes.

Genestealer Cult? No. Thank. You. There's not even going to be a way to fit that in the codex, really, and a supplement isn't going to be so divergent as to include a dozen new units.

The only way I see a Genestealer Cult is as a supplement for the IG that (among other things) lets it be allies with Nids. So very improbable.

 Carnage43 wrote:

DufenDorgen wrote:
So were agreed that the red terror is obviously back in? I mean they made a fine cast model. And any thought on how much genestealers might drop in points? My friends seem to think they're great for 14pts but they're full of gak.

Compare a genestealer for 14 points against a demonette at what, 9 points? That's about the closest comparison I can come up with. Stealers are better, but not 55% better that's for sure. I'd estimate that if genestealers don't get any rules changes, they will be 10-12 points, with upgrades on top of that to drive them back up to the 14-16 range.

I don't even think Genestealers are really better than daemonettes. That 5+ invul makes up for an awful lot.

There are some "strike force" bundles for 40k coming out in November.

Each year this happens, and there are typically four (maybe more), 2 WHFB & 2 40k...

Maybe Tyranids is one?

Oh, I hope so... Not that it will include 100% usable units, but I'd like to buy one anyhow!

...grumble grumble, probably include 6x Pyrovore squads in finecast...Grumble...

 brassangel wrote:
First of all, 3rd ed wasn't really a good codex. It was a mess. You didn't have styles of play, just a bunch of random bugs with poorly modeled biomorphs. "Look, I put stupid huge claws on my Warriors so he looks awful on the table top!" The Hive Node thing was a bad idea also; I don't want Sergeants like Space Marines have. I want Tyranids to rely on the whole swarm as a part of their cohesion.

4th edition certainly wasn't pliable. You played 5-6 Carnifexes and the rest didn't matter.

I want a variety of styles; I want strong, but not broken. In other words, I want a typical 6th edition codex, compensating for the lack of Allies in some way.

It won't go all OP. All of the 6th edition books play nice together. People seem worried it's either going to really really suck, or be really really broken, but there's been no indication of that recently. And that's just it: what happened in previous editions doesn't count. It's not a valid argument for what to expect.

I mostly agree with those thoughts. The 4th edition book's power builds included various MC-heavy builds and stealer shock.

I don't think the new book will be OP, not because 6th edition codicies are all balanced (they aren't), but because Tyranids' place in the fluff is that of a force of nature, or more properly nature gone out of control. They're the mindless adversary or monster -- but not really a proper villain -- that gets shot up cinematically by the heroes and villains. They aren't like other xenos, as expressed in their lack of allies. Tau and Eldar are xenos, but still main actors in the story, if that makes sense. Tyranids are almost part of the setting.

So Termagants and Hormagaunts dying in droves, Warriors getting blown to pieces...it all plays well thematically/cinematically/whatever you want to call it, but doesn't easily lend itself to *gameplay* in which durability is key. This is part of the reason why you saw players move away from Gaunt hordes and to more MC-heavy armies with both the 4th and 5th edition codicies. Obviously, 4th edition Carnifexes and 5th edition Tervigons were wildly popular because they were incredibly points-efficient. And some people just don't like to move 200 models a turn. Still, killing 200 gaunts has gotten progressively easier with each edition as ranged weapon lethality has increased. Plus they might go haywire without synapse, etc. Players' competitive instincts tend to take them away from the gribblies and toward the tougher and/or particularly lethal options. Cripes, just look at what people are fielding from the Daemons codex.

The above opinion may seem ridiculous and simplistic, and I'm kinda intentionally being that way to try to spark some conversation. Still, I do think it holds some water when it comes to GW's design thinking for the army. How do you make bugs die spectacularly and still balance the army? Tervigon buffs seemed to be one answer in the 5th edition book, where Termagants were still made of glass but became a glass hammer of sorts in range. What will the 6th edition book bring? Tyranids, like their fluff, have been very different with each codex, so I guess many things are possible.


Regarding Genestealer Cults, the challenge there is their three diverse elements -- 'Stealers, humans, and Hybrids. A Tyranid codex doesn't rep parts 2 and 3 well. The IG book doesn't rep parts 1 or 3 well. I use the Ork codex for mine, and that does okay with parts 2 and 3 and parts of 1, but doesn't rep purestrains well. GCults ultimately need their own codex to be done properly, barring a significant shift in the army's background.

I would love to have an all genestealer army again....


That'd be so cool, then my Aliens Army conversion would be spot on....

Genestealer cults do not need their own army. They don't need to be represented in 40k in any meaningful way, simply due to the fact that there isn't much to them. You've got some genestealers, some civilian-y guys, and some hybrids, who may as well be civilian-y guys for the purpose of rules. They don't have large enough variety of units or vehicles or characters that could actually make up a codex.