Tyranid Rumours (1st post updated with hive guard pic.)

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**Sasori**

Byte wrote:
Anyone have the pic that was removed from 1st post? First rule of thumb with GW pic leaks. Save, dont link URLs.

It's still in the first post for me.

**Absolutionis**

The top image has been removed. The Hive Guard image at the bottom of the post is still there.

**Eldercaveman**

Absolutionis wrote:
The top image has been removed. The Hive Guard image at the bottom of the post is still there.

It's the same as the Hive Guard pic in the original post.

**brassangel**

BrotherOfBone wrote:
jifel wrote:
BrotherOfBone wrote:
Frozen Ocean wrote:
BrotherOfBone wrote:
*Snip*

*snip*

The Tau were good enough before their new codex, an easy transition into 6th without the reduction of pts on every other unit would have been fine in my opinion. Tyranids are not below par, I've gone up against them enough times to know this. I'm not trying to say that this is every Tyranid player (the above was sarcasm, you know where I'm coming from..), but after a simple skim of this thread all I can see is ridiculous wishlisting. 'Tyranids need to go faster' Is fleet not enough? 'Tyranids need a Genestealer Cult' Do they really? 'Pyrovores suck' Don't use them then. It's the same as Vanguard Veterans, there's always that one overcosted unit, just don't use it. And yes, Carnifexes may be a bit overcosted but that doesn't stop them from being viable at shooting, whack them in cover and have them take shots at aircraft or light tanks and you'll see that they're not as bad as you try and make out they are. Tyranid armies are more than viable, there are a lot of different ways to play them which split into three main categories: Nidzilla, endless swarm or one I like to call 'psychic rape'. They're pretty self-explanatory. And, yes you may get shot down before getting into combat if you're a fool and play without cover, or if you happen to pick the wrong sort of army format, for example Nidzilla vs Plasma Spam Dark Angels, there's no way you're getting out of it and it's bad luck. But if you happened to play an endless swarm against that army you'd win hands down.
Please tell me you can see where I'm coming from.

Well... Endless Swarm isn't viable anymore as an army build. And when you say Nidzilla and Psychis Rape, its the same army... Because our only good MCs are Tervigons, Flyrants and the Swarmlord. Which are all good Psykers. Basically, Nids have one build that's good, which is Psychic Monster Mash with a few Elites thrown in. Having one list becomes predictable. Most of the arguments here don't want THAT much, just viable Close Combat as a replacement for Psychic Stupidity. And lets just say, Space Marines don't cost "way more points" than Genestealers. They're the same cost, except the Marine has way better gear. But we all want decent CC, good speed to get there, and we'll accept subpar shooting as a result.

Endless Swarm isn't viable anymore why exactly..? Orks seem to do this quite well, as do Imperial Guard (I know you will argue that there's transports and blah but you have far superior numbers). There's nothing wrong with the Tyrannofex, Carnifex etc. in regards to Nidzilla, and by Psychic Rape I mean Zoanthropes, HT/SL, Tervigons etc. etc. And, IIRC Genestealers have Outflank and Rending Claws... By the way, you already have decent CC, better speed than almost every army in the game on foot and awesome short-ranged shooting.

Um...what? How about 265 points for one BS3 gun that has no impact on the game, and is on too slow a platform to use his combat ability? Oh, and hello Grav guns for that guy.

The Carnifex is not good. Run a brood of 2 or 3, and sure, you've created a hard to kill unit for about 500 points that will never see combat, or shoot at anything relevant. Transports, maybe, but they aren't killing infantry because every army gets a save against their guns.

Tyranids don't have good speed. That's their problem. Also, they only have one good list because those are the only viable units in the codex. If you do attempt to build with the other units, it eats up valuable slots that could be spent on Tervigons - the only cost-effective unit in the book. Tyrants can muscle their way into being good, but are still super expensive.

The only good things Tyranids really have are psychic powers in the BRB. They need their own identity, need to be the best army at CC (through numbers and speed), and a variety of builds like every other 6th edition codex has offered.

Everyone who has played 40k the last 4 years knows just how poor their codex is. It's not even a debate.

**-Loki-**

brassangel wrote:
The Carnifex is not good. Run a brood of 2 or 3, and sure, you've created a hard to kill unit for about 500 points that will never see combat, or shoot at anything relevant. Transports, maybe, but they aren't killing infantry because every army gets a save against their guns.

I've never had speed problems getting meleefexes into combat - even getting the charge on Dark Eldar, nor getting my Dakkafexes in range with their Devourers. It's all about target saturation, and using the target saturation to help the slower units get into range.

The problem with the Carnifex isn't its range, nor its speed. It's the fact that, for its cost, it's simply not resiliant enough. It needs to stay where it is but take a significant price cut letting you take more, or get significantly boosted resiliance but stay where it is in the points bracket. A brood is meant to be a slow, tanky unit that, when it eventually gets a charge, it hits like a Thunderhawk crashing into a Guardsman. A brood is slow, and hits hard if you've got claws on them to help them reroll misses, but it just isn't tough enough to deliver that charge.

This says everything about the Tyranid army as a whole right now, since it has plenty of problems, and the problem with the Carnifex isn't unique to it. It just doesn't do what it does well well enough. Most of the list has the problem - fast units aren't fast enough, tough units aren't tough enough, punchy melee units can't deliver their punch, shooty units can't dellver their shots.

**jifel**

Apart from stories of individual success, everyone agrees Tyranids need some fixings. But, seeing as they're such a "different" army to basically all the others in both fluff and Playstyle, are there any rumors regarding the new army artifacts everyone has been getting? I have a feeling for Nids it'll just be biomorphs that are explained as less common so are 0-1 instead of being an actual 1 in the whole universe. (I'm really hoping Warp Field, like the old 2+6++ is one of these!)

**BlaxicanX**

The former would be preferable. In a world where entire armies have access to pseudo-rending, any low-model count melee specialist that relies on a low armor/toughness save is basically screwed.

**tetrisphreak**

I agree - the tyranid mantra is "bodies over bullets" after all.

**ninjafiredragon**

brassangel wrote:
BrotherOfBone wrote:
jifel wrote:
BrotherOfBone wrote:
Frozen Ocean wrote:
BrotherOfBone wrote:
*Snip*

*snip*

The Tau were good enough before their new codex, an easy transition into 6th without the reduction of pts on every other unit would have been fine in my opinion. Tyranids are not below par, I've gone up against them enough times to know this. I'm not trying to say that this is every Tyranid player (the above was sarcasm, you know where I'm coming from..), but after a simple skim of this thread all I can see is ridiculous wishlisting. 'Tyranids need to go faster' Is fleet not enough? 'Tyranids need a Genestealer Cult' Do they really? 'Pyrovores suck' Don't use them then. It's the same as Vanguard Veterans, there's always that one overcosted unit, just don't use it. And yes, Carnifexes may be a bit overcosted but that doesn't stop them from being viable at shooting, whack them in cover and have them take shots at aircraft or light tanks and you'll see that they're not as bad as you try and make out they are. Tyranid armies are more than viable, there are a lot of different ways to play them which split into three main categories: Nidzilla, endless swarm or one I like to call 'psychic rape'. They're pretty self-explanatory. And, yes you may get shot down before getting into combat if you're a fool and play without cover, or if you happen to pick the wrong sort of army format, for example Nidzilla vs Plasma Spam Dark Angels, there's no way you're getting out of it and it's bad luck. But if you happened to play an endless swarm against that army you'd win hands down.
Please tell me you can see where I'm coming from.

Well... Endless Swarm isn't viable anymore as an army build. And when you say Nidzilla and Psychis Rape, its the same army... Because our only good MCs are Tervigons, Flyrants and the Swarmlord. Which are all good Psykers. Basically, Nids have one build that's good, which is Psychic Monster Mash with a few Elites thrown in. Having one list becomes predictable. Most of the arguments here don't want THAT much, just viable Close Combat as a replacement for Psychic Stupidity. And lets just say, Space Marines don't cost "way more points" than Genestealers. They're the same cost, except the Marine has way better gear. But we all want decent CC, good speed to get there, and we'll accept subpar shooting as a result.

Endless Swarm isn't viable anymore why exactly..? Orks seem to do this quite well, as do Imperial Guard (I know you will argue that there's transports and blah but you have far superior numbers). There's nothing wrong with the Tyrannofex, Carnifex etc. in regards to Nidzilla, and by Psychic Rape I mean Zoanthropes, HT/SL, Tervigons etc. etc. And, IIRC Genestealers have Outflank and Rending Claws... By the way, you already have decent CC, better speed than almost every army in the game on foot and awesome short-ranged shooting.

Um...what? How about 265 points for one BS3 gun that has no impact on the game, and is on too slow a platform to use his combat ability? Oh, and hello Grav guns for that guy.

The Carnifex is not good. Run a brood of 2 or 3, and sure, you've created a hard to kill unit for about 500 points that will never see combat, or shoot at anything relevant. Transports, maybe, but they aren't killing infantry because every army gets a save against their guns.

Tyranids don't have good speed. That's their problem. Also, they only have one good list because those are the only viable units in the codex. If you do attempt to build with the other units, it eats up valuable slots that could be spent on Tervigons - the only cost-effective unit in the book. Tyrants can muscle their way into being good, but are still super expensive.

The only good things Tyranids really have are psychic powers in the BRB. They need their own identity, need to be the best army at CC (through numbers and speed), and a variety of builds like every other 6th edition codex has offered.

Everyone who has played 40k the last 4 years knows just how poor their codex is. It's not even a debate.

Orks can do green tide, but it's not reliably good. There are not competitive with it. Assult armies just arnt good now a days, and they need fixing.

**Stormonu**

BrotherOfBone wrote:
Frozen Ocean wrote:
BrotherOfBone wrote:
"I want Tyranids to be everything they are now but better in every way. I want point drops on every unit, better stats and more options, I also want more units because Tyranids don't already have some very viable builds. Tyranids also need Super Fleet where they roll 4D6 and pick the highest 3, and reroll all 1s and 2s. Carnifexes must now also be good in combat, because they don't already destroy stuff in range with Twin Linked Devourers. On top of this, I want new models for everything, a Genestealer supplement and models for those too, in fact, Tyranids should be able to completely own marines in assault as well, despite the fact they're super-soldiers and cost a lot more points."
-Every Tyranid player ever

That is hardly fair. It is well known that Nids are in quite a predicament at the moment, and that, among other things, Carnifexes are overpriced. Yes, there will always be overzealous wishlisting, but they are in dire need of improvement. Are Tyranid players not allowed to want their armies to, you know, actually be viable? The Tau got a huge improvement, but we're supposed to just be content with overpricing, removal of options, and getting shot down before getting into combat?

The Tau were good enough before their new codex, an easy transition into 6th without the reduction of pts on every other unit would have been fine in my opinion. Tyranids are not below par, I've gone up against them enough times to know this. I'm not trying to say that this is every Tyranid player (the above was sarcasm, you know where I'm coming from..), but after a simple skim of this thread all I can see is ridiculous wishlisting. 'Tyranids need to go faster' Is fleet not enough? 'Tyranids need a Genestealer Cult' Do they really? 'Pyrovores suck' Don't use them then. It's the same as Vanguard Veterans, there's always that one overcosted unit, just don't use it. And yes, Carnifexes may be a bit overcosted but that doesn't stop them from being viable at shooting, whack them in cover and have them take shots at aircraft or light tanks and you'll see that they're not as bad as you try and make out they are. Tyranid armies are more than viable, there are a lot of different ways to play them which split into three main categories: Nidzilla, endless swarm or one I like to call 'psychic rape'. They're pretty self-explanatory. And, yes you may get shot down before getting into combat if you're a fool and play without cover, or if you happen to pick the wrong sort of army format, for example Nidzilla vs Plasma Spam Dark Angels, there's no way you're getting out of it and it's bad luck. But if you happened to play an endless swarm against that army you'd win hands down.
Please tell me you can see where I'm coming from.

Personally, I would imagine in a foot race between an eldar and a tyranid, the tyranid should win every time (long as we're talking warrior or smaller). So, whatever it would take to get gaunts (and maybe stealers) to move as fast as Eldar miniatures. I'd love to see hormagaunts running down bikes with some sort of cheetah-like speed boost. (I mean, tyranids are masters of the biomorph, why couldn't they incorporate some cheetah-like DNA? As an upgrade option, available to those with chitin or reinforced chitin).

And I'd like to see genestealer cults come back just because they used to be part of GW canon. Don't care to see squats come back, however.

**brassangel**

That's true.

Now some of it is up to the players/TO's using good terrain. As I've said before, a lot of tables still have 2-3" plastic runes from 4th edition, and clear roadways from 5th edition. Too many open firing lanes for the shooter-heavy armies, and those armies have gotten the first 6th edition codices.

Also, it's tough to make a CC army good without being too good. If they can get into combat consistently, shooting armies don't stand a chance.

Tyranids need to die in droves, yet still be able to swarm an enemy while also being a feasible choice for tournaments (e.g. they can't take 45 minutes in the movement phase).

It's a tough balance to strike, and GW will be under a scrutinous eye with this one.

**Vhalyar**

BrotherOfBone was trolling and a mod specifically asked to stop discussing his stupid posts, but I guess some people can't resist the bait.

Personally, I would imagine in a foot race between an eldar and a tyranid, the tyranid should win every time (long as we're talking warrior or smaller).

One of the defining traits of Tyranids in 2d edition was their speed, which eclipsed even that of the Eldar. I would like to see that brought back, if at least for the smaller creatures.

**Caederes**

If Hormagaunts are changed back to Beasts and their upgrades become 1 point per model, they can stay at their current base points per model. Those two changes would make them soooooo much better and worthwhile.

**Eldercaveman**

Da krimson barun wrote:
Good news:A store manager on the one ring is probably going to tell us what's in the new white dwarf.TOMMOROW.Look at me giving sources for my rumours!Well kinda..Not really...sorta though and that's better then most people.

So is this due today?

**Bloodhorror**

I hope so

**Eldercaveman**

Bloodhorror wrote:
I hope so

And me I'm bored of waiting now

**dakkajet**

Eldercaveman wrote:
Bloodhorror wrote:
I hope so

And me I'm bored of waiting now

He said today. People have other things too do so hopefully itll be up later.

**tetrisphreak**

As I intimated earlier in the thread, we should be seeing leaks and screencaps of the DEC white dwarf this week, based on when it's happened in the past.

Also let's all keep our eyes peeled on the GamesWorkshopWNT youtube channel starting Friday - that's where our teaser trailer will show up (but not necessarily when it'll show up, sadly...)

**BeeCee**

There have been some great ideas posted in this thread and Brass brings up a great point about the balance of having the "bodies over bullets" army list but not breaking your back in a tourney or getting punked for time as you have to move 150 bodies every turn.

This will definitely be a heavily scrutinized release and I think no matter how GW goes with it there will be parts of the Tyranid community that will be dissapointed. There are quite a few Tyranid army principles (swarm list, MC heavy, pod bomb etc...) that it will be quite a task to balance not only those playstyles but also the Tyranids as a whole with the rest of the game.

Anyone who has played Tyranids for a while in 6E is also used to the 5 units or so we need to have to win and our ability to abuse the psychic powers because we have a 5E book in the 6E game. I really don't see Tervigons being able to take 3 powers at ML 1 in the new book. Hopefully our Primaris power(s) for the Tyranid powers will include some of the familiar ones to at least provide that continuity.

The biggest question i am asking myself is "Am I willing to cast everything aside that i use and be open to the changes the dex will bring"

I can't wait to see more leaks and ultimately the dex! I don't feel like there has been a "bad" book in 6E yet.

**Da krimson barun**

Eldercaveman wrote:
Da krimson barun wrote:
Good news:A store manager on the one ring is probably going to tell us what's in the new white dwarf.TOMMOROW.Look at me giving sources for my rumours!Well kinda..Not really...sorta though and that's better then most people.

So is this due today?

Turns out he might mean next Monday.

(still one week)

**Vhalyar**

Da krimson barun wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:
Da krimson barun wrote:
Good news:A store manager on the one ring is probably going to tell us what's in the new white dwarf.TOMMOROW.Look at me giving sources for my rumours!Well kinda..Not really...sorta though and that's better then most people.

So is this due today?
Turns out he might mean next Monday. (still one week)

Of course he did.

**Da krimson barun**

http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26781 if it works scroll down a bit and look for the post.If not:Your problem.

**gorgon**

BeeCee wrote:
There have been some great ideas posted in this thread and Brass brings up a great point about the balance of having the "bodies over bullets" army list but not breaking your back in a tourney or getting punked for time as you have to move 150 bodies every turn.

This will definitely be a heavily scrutinized release and I think no matter how GW goes with it there will be parts of the Tyranid community that will be dissapointed. There are quite a few Tyranid army principles (swarm list, MC heavy, pod bomb etc...) that it will be quite a task to balance not only those playstyles but also the Tyranids as a whole with the rest of the game.

I don't think it could be clearer how little GW cares about tournament play right now. Still, if Nidzilla is viable, there's a low model count tourney army. Otherwise...just gotta play quickly.

Anyone who has played Tyranids for a while in 6E is also used to the 5 units or so we need to have to win and our ability to abuse the psychic powers because we have a 5E book in the 6E game. I really don't see Tervigons being able to take 3 powers at ML 1 in the new book. Hopefully our Primaris power(s) for the Tyranid powers will include some of the familiar ones to at least provide that continuity.

The biggest question i am asking myself is "Am I willing to cast everything aside that i use and be open to the changes the dex will bring"

I suspect that there will be much gnashing of teeth. It happened when mutants and mutable genus went away, it happened when Carnifexes suffered a major points hike, and it's going to happen when the psychic follies get reined in.

In general, as a codex ages (and editions and metagames change) a reductive process takes place in which fewer and fewer units remain competitive. Eventually the codex is reduced down to a few "crutch" units. And then GW comes along with a new codex and kicks out that crutch. Some players adapt and regain their balance and others don't.

**brassangel**

BeeCee wrote:There have been some great ideas posted in this thread and Brass brings up a great point about the balance of having the "bodies over bullets" army list but not breaking your back in a tourney or getting punked for time as you have to move 150 bodies every turn.

This will definitely be a heavily scrutinized release and I think no matter how GW goes with it there will be parts of the Tyranid community that will be dissapointed. There are quite a few Tyranid army principles (swarm list, MC heavy, pod bomb etc...) that it will be quite a task to balance not only those playstyles but also the Tyranids as a whole with the rest of the game.

Anyone who has played Tyranids for a while in 6E is also used to the 5 units or so we need to have to win and our ability to abuse the psychic powers because we have a 5E book in the 6E game. I really don't see Tervigons being able to take 3 powers at ML 1 in the new book. Hopefully our Primaris power(s) for the Tyranid powers will include some of the familiar ones to at least provide that continuity.

The biggest question i am asking myself is "Am I willing to cast everything aside that i use and be open to the changes the dex will bring"

I can't wait to see more leaks and ultimately the dex! I don't feel like there has been a "bad" book in 6E yet.

Thanks for echoing my sentiments. This is going to be tough to pull off, but I suspect GW has been working on it since late 5th edition. Some of the writers claimed it was being worked on back when that plastic Hive Tyrant + Tervigon wave hit.

There are players who feel the Chaos Space Marines codex was "weak," even though it keeps finishing at the top of tournaments with a variety of builds. The last part is key, because someone will claim Heldrakes are the crutch of the army - though one could argue equally the Wave Serpent is for Eldar (which they claim is a good book), Riptides are for Tau (which they claim is a good book), Night Scythes for Necrons (same), Vendettas for IG, etc.

Da krimson barun wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:
Da krimson barun wrote:
Good news:A store manager on the one ring is probably going to tell us what's in the new white dwarf.TOMMOROW.Look at me giving sources for my rumours!Well kinda..Not really...sorta though and that's better then most people.

So is this due today?
Turns out he might mean next Monday. (still one week)

That doesn't make you better just because you cite a source. Many of the really good sources wish to remain anonymous, while the persons they feed want to continue to receive the information.

**Vhalyar**

Da krimson barun wrote:
http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26781 if it works scroll down a bit and look for the post.If not:Your problem.

I guess it wasn't obvious enough in my previous post, but I was implying that you're getting your chain chain yanked.

**dakkajet**

Da krimson barun wrote:
http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26781 if it works scroll down a bit and look for the post.If not:Your problem.

I can't find the post. Will you tell us what page at least!

**rigeld2**

dakkajet wrote:
Da krimson barun wrote:
http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26781 if it works scroll down a bit and look for the post.If not:Your problem.

I can't find the post. Will you tell us what page at least!

http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=339898#p339898

**Da krimson barun**

Vhalyar wrote:
Da krimson barun wrote:
http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26781 if it works scroll down a bit and look for the post.If not:Your problem.

I guess it wasn't obvious enough in my previous post, but I was implying that you're getting your chain chain yanked.

I'm not.I misread it.I swear he is a legitimate store owner I can even provide a thread.Again well: http://www.thelastalliance.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&p=79954&sid=05977918d543e33286f8a6940ba61e0#p79954 that took ALOT of numbers.

**-Shrike-**

Ahem...
After last page's warning, I think it might be better if these Hobbit rumours were taken elsewhere. Further discussion in this thread cannot end well.

**Da krimson barun**

I'm talking about WHITE DWARF rumours.Not hobbit.