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Sigh...

Do all men like sports? No. Do more men than women like sports? Yes. There are far less female wargamers than male, that does not mean there are no female wargamers. Likewise there are comparatively few men that scrapbook as a hobby but I'm sure there are a few out there. Men and women have different perspectives on the world, they have different values and different thought prosecess, stateing so is not "shallow and derogatory". No one (except maybe xruslanx, idk you would have to ask him, tho i suspect his comment was tongue in cheek) is saying women cant play or cant understand the rules or anything like that, all I'm saying is that in general women are less interested in tabletop wargameing. What is so sexist about that? If you think there are just hordes of women dieing to play warhammer but cant or wont because of some "boys club" metality you might want to leave your cave more often.

baritowned wrote:

Flying Toaster wrote:Best of luck getting her involved in the hobby. My wife absolutely hates every single aspect of war gaming minus painting. For some reason she absolutely loves to paint.

Mine is generally interested in it (she thinks its amazing that I can paint something that small), and wants something we can do together. But yeah, it's kind of odd she hates the gaming aspect but loves painting.

Maybe because the gaming aspect takes up wayyyy more time than the painting...and let's admit, the gaming part is pretty nerdy. some wives just don't like the nerdy stuff.....including mine

The only progress I've ever made with my GF:

I always referred to my Tau as "the gundams" so she would know which army I was talking about. Then one day she said "Just call them Tau, I know the name."

Mission Accomplished.

We do so many other things with girlfriends or wives that inevitably we try to get them into our hobbies and in turn, they try to involve us into theirs.

I am in the same boat that she enjoyed painting more than any other element of the game but found assembly and gaming a bore.

#1 hobby for her is reading books, no romance in 40k books so that is pretty much closed as well (she likes "supernatural romance" so it is a workable interest).

If you are one of the lucky few that has another half that is a gamer I salute you.

It may be a small blessing that I have two avenues to unwind: time with her in social/family/couples activities and 40k war gaming: time with the guys and the crazy local hobby store folks.

One fact that I had been reading on raising children that boys are more wired/inclined for physical development at a young age and girls are more socially inclined.
Ask any teacher which sex is easiest to deal with.

I would suggest if introducing the hobby to the fair sex, include as many social elements as possible: get friends together to paint, ask around at the hobby store if anyone has a girlfriend that games and try to get them to show up as well as your other half.
Get them involved in a few forums/contacts.
Try to assist in modifying armies to suit their taste: DE was great to make it look like an S&M troupe, took a little work but made an "all female" eldar army... you get the picture and they look great.

Anything to get rid of that "boys with toys" dismissive outlook to a hobby that takes no small measure of skill.
I have had to remind that I could easily take up a beer-drinking-armchair-athlete leisure viewpoint to upgrade my manly pursuits.
So far, sailing, judo, kendo and being able to play any sport my kids pick up has kept her interest and my math of how many 2-4's of beer can be consumed at what cost.

I always wonder what ratio of guys who'd love to get their partners or would be partners into 40k, would also love themselves to get into activities like Dance classes, dress making, and baking.

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
I always wonder what ratio of guys who'd love to get their partners or would be partners into 40k, would also love themselves to get into activities like Dance classes, dress making, and baking.

If you can find another half that does any of those three you are ahead of most.

I assume the comment was to point out that we would love to do the above activities as much as they would 40k?

It would almost be worth performing those activities with them if that is what they do: dancer girlfriend anyone?, someone who can make anything in cloth? someone who makes "good eats"?

Dancing would have to be "Tango", dress making: who really does that? If you are into cosplay this is good and baking: not so much a hobby as very good food (I can bake bread, cakes, pretty much anything).

Most of the women I know have the following hobbies: professional grade photography with fancy framing, triathlete, cross-stitch, tennis, cosplay (costume maker & model), MTG player, that would be about it, I am tapped out.

Flying Toaster wrote:
Best of luck getting her involved in the hobby. My wife absolutely hates every single aspect of war gaming minus painting. For some reason she absolutely loves to paint.

Same here.
I compare Warhammer for women to knitting stores for men.

Most women don't like chess or other strategy games any more than I like knitting. I expect that's societal based and not generic based. I expect I might love knitting if I really got into it, but it just does not do it for me.

My wife goes to knitting stores and sits around with a bunch of other 30-something women and chats while knitting. I go to a gaming store and play warhammer with guys. If I go to a knitting store I really don't feel comfortable as I'm surrounded by 30-something women. My wife feels the same when shes hanging out at my FLGS.

Another problem is the abject masculinity of the game. Nearly every character I've read about has the emotional range of a turnip. Hate, Anger, Fear, Loyalty, and Worship. That's about it. Women don't really feel connected to that aspect of the fluff. What happened to the family that's just trying to get by in the 40k universe.

These are the biggest hurdles to deal with.

Just a quick note:

My first ever regular opponent in 40K was a girl. We were both 12-13.

I played Orks, she played Dark Eldar. She was highly aggressive, logical and calculating.

Couldn't paint for anything though.

Just another example!

xruslanx wrote:
Women don't like the gaming side because they're averse to the logical ruleset that neccesetates it. They like the painting because they tend to regard it as more creative and skilled, more akin to art than a nerdy hobby.

If you want to teach her the rules, i suggest doing it very simply, demonstrating game mechanics one at a time. Dont overwealm her with special rules and exceptions from the outset.

Not totally sexist or anything.

The only time my old lady steps foot into my FLGS is to pick up some paint for me on her way home from work, or to bring me (and the boys) food when i'm there playing and she's passing by, since she works about 2 blocks away. This is also not meant to be sexist, but we both want it that way. We have a ton of interests and hobbies we do together, which is why we're dating, but 40k and golf are not among those.

However, on the few occasions she does stop in, she always makes it a hilarious point to trash talk my opponent. It's awesome to see some of these dudes rendered speechless when a 5'2" ball of fury says stuff like, "i guess all your ugly guys are dead already because you had your mom paint them" and then just walk off.

Furthermore, she knows quite a bit about 40k, and still gets under my skin when she says, "are we going to watch tv or are you going to paint your world of warcraft toys?" She knows what they are, and i know she knows what they are, but the ocd in me still makes me correct her. I guess she's just a prick.

what were we talking about?

Woman are good at sammiches

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Woman are good at sammiches

Classy.
I must correct myself: do not direct other half to the forums or she would feel obligated to destroy people... don't make me do it.

I have to wonder how many people in this thread are under the age of, like, 25?

Guys...

If you can bake, or, heck, just cook for yourself, with the ability to follow a recipe and, if you must, whip up something that is both good-tasting and aesthetically-pleasing? You are leagues ahead. Want to impress a date? Cook for her. Seriously.

If you can use a needle and thread, sewing machine, all that? Leagues ahead. You're demonstrating the ability to pay attention, focus on a task, and create something new, literally, from whole cloth. And if you other half is a gamer/LARPer/Con-goer? You are *way* ahead of the competition, because you can make costumes.

You can dance? I don't just mean classic dances, like a tango or the Foxtrot or the Charleston (though that doesn't hurt either!), but you can move your body in time with a beat and display grace and coordination? That demonstrates that you're both self-confident and, also, not an oaf.

Seriously. Learn to dance, learn to cook, learn to sew. You will be so far ahead of your meat-headed competition, and also have some very valuable life-skills to boot, that you will amaze yourself.

Spartak wrote:


1st I'm seriously not being sexist
2nd Women are much more emotionally sensitive than men, it effects their logic and perspective. Men on the other hand tend to be more analytical and cause/effect based thinkers which also effects their perspective and opinions. This is not to say one gender is better or worse, right or wrong. It does however tend to make men and women predisposed to enjoy different types of activities. So I don’t think it's at all false or idiotic to say women don’t like the hobby due to its "logical" or methodical nature. My ex-wife and her girlfriends preferred to scrapbook than play warhammer for a reason.

I love this comment. It's bullet points are basically

1. I'm not sexist!
and
2. Oh wait, yes I am! Let me explain how!

-D

However, on the few occasions she does stop in, she always makes it a hilarious point to trash talk my opponent. It's awesome to see some of these dudes rendered speechless when a 5'2" ball of fury says stuff like, "i guess all your ugly guys are dead already because you had your mom paint them" and then just walk off.

Love this!

 deviantduck wrote:
The only time my old lady steps foot into my FLGS is to pick up some paint for me on her way home from work, or to bring me (and the boys) food when i'm there playing and she's passing by, since she works about 2 blocks away. This is also not meant to be sexist, but we both want it that way. We have a ton of interests and hobbies we do together, which is why we're dating, but 40k and golf are not among those.

Not sexist, it is called time away from each other. Separate time is fine, gives you something different to talk about and the guys tend to get inhibited when the girlfriend is around.

However, on the few occasions she does stop in, she always makes it a hilarious point to trash talk my opponent. It's awesome to see some of these dudes rendered speechless when a 5'2" ball of fury says stuff like, "i guess all your ugly guys are dead already because you had your mom paint them" and then just walk off.

A burn and run artist? As long as the "fury" is ready for comments like "You need more practice painting your face...<rotten, grumble,b...>" they will come. Sheesh, hard enough getting the ladies that show up being accepted without that...

Furthermore, she knows quite a bit about 40k, and still gets under my skin when she says, "are we going to watch tv or are you going to paint your world of warcraft toys?" She knows what they are, and i know she knows what they are, but the ocd in me still makes me correct her. I guess she's just a prick.

Not sure why watching TV is considered "together time" but they like to belittle the hobby hoping they can get you to stay. I insist on getting foot rubs after a hard days work if I am in front of the TV, cuts those requests right down.

 Talizvar wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
The only time my old lady steps foot into my FLGS is to pick up some paint for me on her way home from work, or to bring me (and the boys) food when i'm there playing and she's passing by, since she works about 2 blocks away. This is also not meant to be sexist, but we both want it that way. We have a ton of interests and hobbies we do together, which is why we're dating, but 40k and golf are not among those.

Not sexist, it is called time away from each other. Separate time is fine, gives you something different to talk about and the guys tend to get inhibited when the girlfriend is around.

However, on the few occasions she does stop in, she always makes it a hilarious point to trash talk my opponent. It's awesome to see some of these dudes rendered speechless when a 5'2" ball of fury says stuff like, "i guess all your ugly guys are dead already because you had your mom paint them" and then just walk off.

A burn and run artist? As long as the "fury" is ready for comments like "You need more practice painting your face...<rotten, grumble,b...>" they will come. Sheesh, hard enough getting the ladies that show up being accepted without that...

Furthermore, she knows quite a bit about 40k, and still gets under my skin when she says, "are we going to watch tv or are you going to paint your world of warcraft toys?" She knows what they are, and i know she knows what they are, but the ocd in me still makes me correct her. I guess she's just a prick.

Not sure why watching TV is considered "together time" but they like to belittle the hobby hoping they can get you to stay. I insist on getting foot rubs after a hard days work if I am in front of the TV, cuts those requests right down.

Obviously, you've never enjoyed the phenomena known as 'cuddling'. :p

On the other hand, I get home from a hard days work and have to give foot rubs, but that's a small price to pay for a partner who likes wargaming and roleplaying.

 labmouse42 wrote:

Another problem is the abject masculinity of the game. Nearly every character I've read about has the emotional range of a turnip. Hate, Anger, Fear, Loyalty, and Worship. That's about it.

Christ, where do you buy your turnips?

it's a delicate thing. the obstacles to get around will depend on your girlfriend. My ex- wife was vehemently against warhammer 40k. I had met her during one of my extended breaks from 40k. then when i got orders to change to a different base, I found a group that I worked with that played. so this woman that had known me for long enough didn't know about my wargaming habit, then all of a sudden, models appeared (as I had my stuff shipped from out of the attic back home). in summary, i had ambushed her with it. don't do that.

bought new models. and the eventual question "why do you need three of those models?" it's awkward to explain to someone who doesn't play. i used an analogy of "why do you need so many shoes? I can use all three of these at the same time, even more. you can only wear two at a time" a hint from me to you... don't use that line, it went over like a fart in church.

fast forward a couple of years, that relationship had reached its conclusion. i met other people and just showed them what the game was. One thought "it was cute" that I was such a nerd.

eventually I met one who said "that's kind of cool, how do you play?" I immediately went looking for a ring, lol!

ultimately, most people won't get into the game, it's hard to introduce. find an interest that you can branch out from. if she likes to read... there's a few books set in the 40k universe. if she likes videogames (good luck with that) it's not too hard to change over.
treat it wiht kid gloves, don't overload her, and she might find an aspect that he likes. (my wife hates painting and list building, but is fantastic at actually playing)

tgjensen wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:

Another problem is the abject masculinity of the game. Nearly every character I've read about has the emotional range of a turnip. Hate, Anger, Fear, Loyalty, and Worship. That's about it.

Christ, where do you buy your turnips?

I laughed.

DeffDred wrote:What's ith girls and metallic paints?! I have yet to meet a female player who doesn't immediately slap silver on their first model.

For what it's worth, my fiancee didn't even look at the metallics when she first tried painting a marine.
Straight for the greens and greys.
I don't think there's any metallics on her High Elves either.

But yeah, a lot of the guys who play this game seem to be on the more... immature side of the fence, especially when it comes to women.

Also to the OP - did she choose marines, or did you just go 'here's some marines, which colour do you like best?'? (just curious)

tgjensen wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:

Another problem is the abject masculinity of the game. Nearly every character I've read about has the emotional range of a turnip. Hate, Anger, Fear, Loyalty, and Worship. That's about it.

Christ, where do you buy your turnips?

Tired of the same old boring turnips? Try our homegrown "Devout Turnips". These turnips will wait patiently in the cabinet waiting for you to open the door and show them the light. You will never find a more loyal turnip anywhere. Enjoy!

*Warning "Devout Turnips" hate all other vegetables and will destroy them on sight.*

With my lady, she has 0 interest in the game at all.
She knows what the armies I play and what they are called, and has no problem coming to watch and just generally hang out with me as I play. One perk I do enjoy though, is how she loves my painting jobs (but, that's probably being a good wife).
As others have said, she isn't into painting or playing at all.
Odd, considering she is big into crafts like sewing, painting pottery, and building things, but I feel the universe and trying to learn all the rules are un-interesting to her.

I have accomplished the knowledge of what armies I play and such.

My wife plays with focus and anger, and only to win. She could care less about painting, I do all of that. She plays only to crush her opponents, not for fun.

Fine by me! Its fun doing 2v2 games with her, 90lbs of rage against Warhammer geeks.

I can think of nothing worse than a wargaming wife.

I have a hobby to get away from family, not to spend even more time with them!

gealgain wrote:
eventually I met one who said "that's kind of cool, how do you play?" I immediately went looking for a ring, lol!

ultimately, most people won't get into the game, it's hard to introduce. find an interest that you can branch out from. if she likes to read... there's a few books set in the 40k universe. if she likes videogames (good luck with that) it's not too hard to change over.
treat it wiht kid gloves, don't overload her, and she might find an aspect that he likes. (my wife hates painting and list building, but is fantastic at actually playing)

That's how my girlfriend is. She's always been kind of interested, but lately it's just been difficult trying to find time to teach her. She works first shift and I work second, so we get maybe a day or two every week to actually spend time together.

Ovion wrote:
Also to the OP - did she choose marines, or did you just go 'here's some marines, which colour do you like best?'? (just curious)

I actually found a tac squad and a dread that I hadn't put together, so I asked her if she wanted me to teach her. I told her that the marines are the easiest to learn with, then showed her some of the different chapters, and since she loves blue and silver, she picked the Wardens.

 Iechine wrote:
My wife plays with focus and anger, and only to win. She could care less about painting, I do all of that. She plays only to crush her opponents, not for fun.

Fine by me! Its fun doing 2v2 games with her, 90lbs of rage against Warhammer geeks.

Why does her hand look weird and photoshopped? Did you have to digitally remove a skull from it or something?

Probably an angry gesticulation about the measurement or some other transgression.

 deviantduck wrote:
However, on the few occasions she does stop in, she always makes it a hilarious point to trash talk my opponent. It's awesome to see some of these dudes rendered speechless when a 5'2" ball of fury says stuff like, "i guess all your ugly guys are dead already because you had your mom paint them" and then just walk off.

That's not cool at all, dude. If I was the store owner there and that was a regular thing, I'd tell you to tell her to knock that off because she's creating an unfriendly atmosphere or she's getting kicked out.

And really, how would you like it if someone you don't even know and isn't even playing you at the time come up and insult you and/or your work?

I agree with Wilytank. Gamers have taken enough of a verbal beating from women/girls over the decades, acting like that just isn't cool unless you are real close friends and it was playful banter.

As for commenting on the rest of the thread, My wife plays wargames and the two things she looks for are female characters and their fluff when getting into an army. 40k was a very difficult sell until she stumbled on to dark eldar and the wytch cults. Women are into fiction as well!

She also doesn't paint in pure metalics and we go dancing on the weekends.