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I know that the word bearers worship alll 4 gods as an undivided status.

But I've heard from someone that they are particularly at odds with the emperor's children?
Why is that so? Or do they hate all legions that worship 1 god equally?

From the HH Series ahriman and erebus was once good friends.
So it would be still fluffy to run ahrimand with thousand sons allies in my WB army right?

Does the WB as a functioning legion itself powerful enough to call aid from other traitor legions if need arise? Or that is a privilege reserved for big bad abby himself only?

Asking for aid will never hurt id assume... I know some legions/chapters see the WB as fanatical posessed scum... The WB were the first to be posessed or as the daemons called it... Blessed They were the first to actualy turn in some form of daemonkind. And they NEED to worship a god.. Cant worship the emperor?? Why not the primordial annihalator then... same thing uuhhhmmmhmmmm

The First heretic novel makes a lot clear about the WB

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
Asking for aid will never hurt id assume... I know some legions/chapters see the WB as fanatical posessed scum... The WB were the first to be posessed or as the daemons called it... Blessed They were the first to actualy turn in some form of daemonkind. And they NEED to worship a god.. Cant worship the emperor?? Why not the primordial annihalator then... same thing uuhhhmmmhmmmm

The First heretic novel makes a lot clear about the WB

The question here is. Do they have that kind of power? To summon the other legions to their aid?

How about ahriman? He is now in exile. But helping the WB? Is that stretching it a bit? Lol.

Word Bearers worship all the Chaos gods except for Slaanesh. They find their followers to be decadent and repulsive, due to their obsession with pleasure.

As for Thousand Sons, they don't mind being allied. Lorgar and Magnus were friends and Magnus tutored him in some aspects of psychic power.

Word Bearers worship Slaanesh as a member of the Pantheon and Chaos Undivided, but don't devote themselves to just Slaanesh by itself. They actually look down on anyone who devotes themselves to a single god, not just the Emperor's Children, feeling that true worship of Chaos is Chaos Undivided (thus you won't find any "cult" marines amongst the Word Bearers, I think. Were Word Bearers allowed to have cult marines back when the Legions were more differentiated by table top rules? I forget). However, they look down on the Emperor's Children the most, due to how selfish and depraved they are. I think the intended context is that the Emperor's Children are the epitome of selfishness (dedicating themselves fully to the god of selfishness and nothing else) while Word Bearers are actually rather altruistic, relatively speaking (sure, they have their own personal ambitions, but their entire lives are dedicated to the service of a higher power, which is the opposite of selfishness).

Quoting Lexicanum:

Word Bearers do not worship Chaos Gods individually. Instead, they are venerated and regarded as a Dark Pantheon of Chaos Gods. The sons of Lorgar view those who limit their worship to a single Chaos God with contempt and are partially at odds with the Emperor's Children for their decadence.

Needs citation, I've never heard that before honestly.

Both the wiki and WH40k have had that statement (but stated differently in each one, indicating it was added to the wiki and lexi by two different people) for longer than I can remember. So if this is true at all, it likely comes from an old old old source.

If I had to guess, I imagine it comes from the earlier chaos space marine codexes where the traitor legions were actually differentiated, and presumably was the fluff reason why the Word Bearers didn't have noise marines, khorne beserkers, or plague marines. ...anyone have any better memory on this issue?

TiamatRoar wrote:
Word Bearers worship Slaanesh as a member of the Pantheon and Chaos Undivided, but don't devote themselves to just Slaanesh by itself. They actually look down on anyone who devotes themselves to a single god, not just the Emperor's Children, feeling that true worship of Chaos is Chaos Undivided (thus you won't find any "cult" marines amongst the Word Bearers, I think. Were Word Bearers allowed to have cult marines back when the Legions were more differentiated by table top rules? I forget). However, they look down on the Emperor's Children the most, due to how selfish and depraved they are. I think the intended context is that the Emperor's Children are the epitome of selfishness (dedicating themselves fully to the god of selfishness and nothing else) while Word Bearers are actually rather altruistic, relatively speaking (sure, they have their own personal ambitions, but their entire lives are dedicated to the service of a higher power, which is the opposite of selfishness).

exactly


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Quoting Lexicanum:

Word Bearers do not worship Chaos Gods individually. Instead, they are venerated and regarded as a Dark Pantheon of Chaos Gods. The sons of Lorgar view those who limit their worship to a single Chaos God with contempt and are partially at odds with the Emperor's Children for their decadence.

yup


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kissmymom wrote:

Does the WB as a functioning legion itself powerful enough to call aid from other traitor legions if need arise? Or that is a privilege reserved for big bad abby himself only?

The word bearers are the most ordered of the chaos legions having divided their legion into 'chapter' like entities lead by a dark apostle. The dark apostles make up the dark council, which can summon all of it's might together for special missions.

The default WB response to a problem is to summon daemons to aid them. If they needed help, they arent going to call on another legion they are going to summon daemons. If they cannot summon enough daemons, they will call on more WB through the dark council and summon even more daemons. If they need even more help they are going to pray harder. I dont see them ever calling on some other legion to help them.

Now if you can create some fluff as to why another warband/legion wants the same thing the WBs want then I can see them working together. It isnt like they are violently opposed to working with say the Iron Warriors if their aims aligned.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Word_Bearers#.Ugu2i5K1H44

Even Abby needs to strike bargains, make promises, and call in favors when "calling for aid" from the other legions. It was stated long ago for the 13th Black Crusade that promises were made, favours were called in, etc in order to get everyone on the same page. One sadly overlooked aspect of Abaddon that most people don't consider when they call him Failbaddon is that the guy must be a REALLY good politician to pull off what he's done so far.

A specific case is given in the latest Black Legion supplement, where one of the artifact's descriptions say that Abaddon secured the participation of the Death Guard by giving Mortarion a Black Stone Fortress.

They dislike the Emperor's Children for political reasons, not religious ones. Ever heard of the Eye of Terror slave wars? Essentially, the Emperor's Children exhausted their own resources, but were stronger than the other Legions (because they avoided the actual fighting at Terra) so they decided to plunder resources from their former allies. A very long conflict ensued, which resulted in the Emperor's Children breaking up, Fulgrim disappearing, Kharn destroying the World Eaters, and the Sons of Horus becoming the Black Legion under Abaddon.

Thanks guy. For the information.

Another question. Is there sorcerres in the ranks of the WB? I am half way through the word bearers omnibus by reynolds. I have yet to encounter any use of sorcery except for Marduk.

Its just sad that the dark apostle in the codex is so under-powered unlike the kick ass apostle in the novel.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Quoting Lexicanum:
Word Bearers do not worship Chaos Gods individually. Instead, they are venerated and regarded as a Dark Pantheon of Chaos Gods. The sons of Lorgar view those who limit their worship to a single Chaos God with contempt and are partially at odds with the Emperor's Children for their decadence.

I can't be sure of the exact wording, but the bulk of this - about worship of the Pantheon and Chaos Undivided - has been in Word Bearer codex fluff all the way back to the 2nd edition Codex Chaos. It hasn't always appeared, but even where it hasn't, there hasn't been anything to directly contradict it (oddly though, the latest Codex does state they venerate each God with different acts and tributes and build statues in their image... which seems against everything we know of their modus operandi to date). They definitely don't worship individual powers to the exclusion of the others, and they definitely look down on those who do.

This is, however, the first time I've heard of them having a particular enmity with the Emperor's Children. I haven't been able to find it in the latest Codex, I'm wondering if it's a Black Library thing.

The Word Bearers definately have sorcs. After their official censure at Nikkea, they kinda stopped listening to the Emperor. Though i cant cite any evidence right now, id bet they kept their librarians. Why wouldnt they have them? Who summons the deamons for combat or to slave to deamon engines? I could be wrong.

A Word Bearer's life is all about routine, praying to your Gods, tending your weapons and copying pages of the Book of Lorgar on to freshly flayed slave skin.

Fulgrim's Legionnaires are far more likely to get drunk to excess, try all sorts of drugs and have no self control.

TiamatRoar wrote:
Were Word Bearers allowed to have cult marines back when the Legions were more differentiated by table top rules?

No, not in 3.5 anyway, the only mark they could take was Undivided.

 Musashi363 wrote:
The Word Bearers definately have sorcs. After their official censure at Nikkea, they kinda stopped listening to the Emperor. Though i cant cite any evidence right now, id bet they kept their librarians. Why wouldnt they have them? Who summons the deamons for combat or to slave to deamon engines? I could be wrong.

They kept their chaplains who is now the dark apostles. They do the summoning of the daemons.

WB also have a good relationship with the dark mechanicus. They are the ones who supply the daemon engines.

I am not sure about librarian thoug. :/ any ideas?

Lorgar and Magnus have a closer relationship. Magnus was there when the Emperor arrived at Colchis, and Lorgar looks up to Magnus as the wisest and perhaps most understanding of his brothers. Everybody else seems to treats him like the weak little brother.

The division between the Word Bearers and the Emperor's Children could also partly be due to Lorgar's knowledge that Fulgrim's body isn't inhabited by Fulgrim's soul. Though, it's also likely that the Word Bearers, like the Iron Warriors think the worship of Slaanesh breeds weakness and excess.

edr247 wrote:
Lorgar and Magnus have a closer relationship. Magnus was there when the Emperor arrived at Colchis, and Lorgar looks up to Magnus as the wisest and perhaps most understanding of his brothers. Everybody else seems to treats him like the weak little brother.

The division between the Word Bearers and the Emperor's Children could also partly be due to Lorgar's knowledge that Fulgrim's body isn't inhabited by Fulgrim's soul. Though, it's also likely that the Word Bearers, like the Iron Warriors think the worship of Slaanesh breeds weakness and excess.

Yes I know that magnus is close friend with lorgar and erebus also know ahriman. But since that ahriman is in exile after he screwed up real bad. Would it be stretvhing it to say that ahriman is back to aid the word bearers?

And also. There has already been a few people in this thread that WB and IW despise the worship of slaanesh because it breeds weakness and excessive indulgence of pleasure. Where is the source of this? Is it from the HH novels?

WB are worshiping pantheon - read "Vulkan lives"

And Lorgar is great with everybody (except Bobby G) until they start to mock him for worshiping....Then Lorgar becomes something else...

About Perurabo - he doesn't belive in gods (like hubris-blinded Magnus ) , not in the last book anyway...,He totally trashed Fulgrim for his worshiping....

Animus wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:
Were Word Bearers allowed to have cult marines back when the Legions were more differentiated by table top rules?

No, not in 3.5 anyway, the only mark they could take was Undivided.

Ah, thanks! Yea, the fluff about the Word Bearers disliking those who dedicated themselves to a single god instead of the whole pantheon (that made it's way into the wiki and the lexi) probably comes from back then, in that case.

So we can all come to the conslusion that word bearers are buddies with thousand sons(as compared to other legions) and they hate emeperor's children.

kissmymom wrote:
So we can all come to the conslusion that word bearers are buddies with thousand sons(as compared to other legions) and they hate emeperor's children.

Nope, IMHO TS are completely different then WB.....TS observe warp (even Tzeench) as a force of nature while WB are single minded worshipers....

Also I can't connect scholar Ahriman with douchebag Erebus (not in the heresy time at least)

Other than Cyclop's tutoring Lorgar, and mutual usage of sorcery I don't see why they personas have to match... My two cents which are based on heresy books...Don't know the 40k situation...

kissmymom wrote:
Thanks guy. For the information.

Another question. Is there sorcerres in the ranks of the WB? I am half way through the word bearers omnibus by reynolds. I have yet to encounter any use of sorcery except for Marduk.

Its just sad that the dark apostle in the codex is so under-powered unlike the kick ass apostle in the novel.

The WB def have sorcs. More along the lines of carefully studying sorcs who spend a lifetime perfecting their summon daemon ritual and carefully using divination and channeling daemonic power rather than some other chaos sorcs who throw caution to the wind, open up a tear into the warp and start blindly throwing raw power at enemies.

 Exergy wrote:
open up a tear into the warp and start blindly throwing raw power at enemies.

I would love to blindly throw rules as written power at enemies...

 Exergy wrote:

kissmymom wrote:
Thanks guy. For the information.

Another question. Is there sorcerres in the ranks of the WB? I am half way through the word bearers omnibus by reynolds. I have yet to encounter any use of sorcery except for Marduk.

Its just sad that the dark apostle in the codex is so under-powered unlike the kick ass apostle in the novel.

The WB def have sorcs. More along the lines of carefully studying sorcs who spend a lifetime perfecting their summon daemon ritual and carefully using divination and channeling daemonic power rather than some other chaos sorcs who throw caution to the wind, open up a tear into the warp and start blindly throwing raw power at enemies.

Wait you aren't supposed to just go crazy and fling rules as written spells!?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Chaos Legions will ask anyone else for help unless they are going to get anything out of it. They are pretty selfish. If they could just get along Mankind would stand no chance!

kissmymom wrote:


From the HH Series ahriman and erebus was once good friends.

Source? Ahriman and Erebus may have been congenial since their daddies were BFF, but Erebus had no friends except maybe Kor Phaeron (and these two spend their time orchestrating regular culls of their own Legion to undermine each other's power base).

There's no reason why Ahriman wouldn't fought alongside them though.

Wanted to post these quotes up sooner but haven't got round to it until now

Amakyre despised these wretches. The weakness of character that prevented them from worshipping the full pantheon of Chaos was unforgivable. The Pleasure God was just one facet of the magnificence of the warp - to worship Slaanesh to the exclusion of all others was too feeble - willed even to register as heresy - Daemon World p60

It told the coven much of the perils of honouring one power of Chaos over the other - the whole essence of Chaos was anarchy where power might wax or wane, and giving fealty to any one alone would lead to decay of the soul and madness - Daemon World p78

'They are still our brothers' said Marduk 'They are the blessed children of Grandfather Nurgle, living Embodiments of His favour. they are worthy of of our respect - Vox Dominus Treacheries of the Space Marines p353

So where some only follw the Pantheon and recognise the errors of the singular path others at least recognise and treat them with respect.

This quote from the codex though leaves me a little confused.

Dedicating every new blasphemy to the Ruinous Powers, they each venerate one of the Chaotic pantheon with manic fervour - Codex Chaos Space Marines p13

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Wanted to post these quotes up sooner but haven't got round to it until now

Amakyre despised these wretches. The weakness of character that prevented them from worshipping the full pantheon of Chaos was unforgivable. The Pleasure God was just one facet of the magnificence of the warp - to worship Slaanesh to the exclusion of all others was too feeble - willed even to register as heresy - Daemon World p60

It told the coven much of the perils of honouring one power of Chaos over the other - the whole essence of Chaos was anarchy where power might wax or wane, and giving fealty to any one alone would lead to decay of the soul and madness - Daemon World p78

'They are still our brothers' said Marduk 'They are the blessed children of Grandfather Nurgle, living Embodiments of His favour. they are worthy of of our respect - Vox Dominus Treacheries of the Space Marines p353

So where some only follw the Pantheon and recognise the errors of the singular path others at least recognise and treat them with respect.

This quote from the codex though leaves me a little confused.

Dedicating every new blasphemy to the Ruinous Powers, they each venerate one of the Chaotic pantheon with manic fervour - Codex Chaos Space Marines p13

I think you got the last quote from the word bearers section in the codex?

Well is GW Changing the fluff again. They are telling us its okay toi give marks to WB.

Well its not surprising. They gave our apostle to every other chapter. :/

I guess it wouldn't be stretching it to say that they worship chaos undivided but is favoured by 1 god thus explains the mark.