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I am considering collecting a CSM army and despite opinion of them, I want to use a unit of Warp Talons as the models are amazing.

What is the best way to use them? I am thinking of using a chaos lord with jump pack with them to get around the no grenades issue but I am not sure which mark to use?

Slaanesh would be good for high initiative, nurgle for toughness and tzeench to give them a very nice 4++ save but then they might just get shot by weapons that don't ignore their armour.

I am more leaning towards nurgle or slaanesh right now, I don't think khorne is really worth it for just one more attack (is that what the MOK still does?).

 rohansoldier wrote:
I am considering collecting a CSM army and despite opinion of them, I want to use a unit of Warp Talons as the models are amazing.

What is the best way to use them? I am thinking of using a chaos lord with jump pack with them to get around the no grenades issue but I am not sure which mark to use?

Slaanesh would be good for high initiative, nurgle for toughness and tzeench to give them a very nice 4++ save but then they might just get shot by weapons that don't ignore their armour.

I am more leaning towards nurgle or slaanesh right now, I don't think khorne is really worth it for just one more attack (is that what the MOK still does?).

Having a lord doesnt get them "around" the no grenade issue. It just provides 1 model in the unit that can strike at init. Im not sure I would add a Lord, while he does give fearless, he also doubles the cost of the unit and makes it more likely to get shot. I like my lords in cheap units with lots of ablative wounds.

All of the marks are useful, but they are already 30 points each, so use it carefully. VotLW is also nice against Meq, but again they get expensive fast.

Probably the only way to make them "useful" is with daemon allies and a true name to give them a 2++ save.

Still if you have the FA slot(you shouldn't) you could take 5 naked. They arent terrible, just there are so many better uses of the points and so many ways to kill Meq for CSM. Try to run them up behind BLOS terrain. They can pop over it and hopefully get the charge off against something that is not in cover. They will wreck any meq they are allowed to strike.

I thought if one model has grenades then the whole unit got the benefit?

Or is that not the case?

Even so, a Lord tooled up for combat could reduce the number of attacks coming at the Talons. Not ideal, but better than nothing!

 rohansoldier wrote:
I thought if one model has grenades then the whole unit got the benefit?

Or is that not the case?

Not the case sadly. Only the model who actually carried the assault grenade doesnt have his init reduced to 1.

Warp talons are terrible. I don't recommend buying them.

IF YOU MUST USE THEM, (and really, do you have to?) ally in Daemons and cast the Grimoire of True Names on them, give them Mark of Nurgle, and throw them at your enemies face.

I'd take a squad of 6 or 7, give them Mark of Slaanesh, the FNP Icon, and plan on deep striking them in the heart of the enemy to take advantage of the blind radius. Its a high risk, but high reward tactic---particularly against low initiative xenos. Blind also goes before interceptor, so Tau will be shooting interceptor at BS1 66% of the time. It also gives benefits across the army if you reduce BS since it renders the opponent severely weaker for a turn. They are also big enough to still handle GEQ and MEQ units on subsequent turns.

I think someone will need to cite the book on that grenades thing.

Anyways, as for Warp Talons, i am a long time lover fo the Night Lords, so this topic interests me. I have not been able to play Night Lords properly since the rules for them essentially disappeared. Raptors and Warp Talons are totally awesome conceptually and their cost is high but the death they deal is too. High risk, high reward unit really.

I'm wondering if the second Chaos Codex will give Night Lords back to us?

Rulebook p.61, bottom right corner, under "Assault Grenades; Assault":
Models equipped with assault grenades don't suffer the penalty to their initiative for charging enemies through cover, but fight at their normal initiative in the ensuing combat.

 Laughingcarp wrote:
Rulebook p.61, bottom right corner, under "Assault Grenades; Assault":
Models equipped with assault grenades don't suffer the penalty to their initiative for charging enemies through cover, but fight at their normal initiative in the ensuing combat.

^This

The whole, if one models has grenades they all do only applies to defensive and specialist grenades. IE blight grenades, blind, RAD, Psychotroke, ect. ect.

Way better than arguing. Rules citations for the win.

I have seen warp talons use in to stage assaults. Use the blind special ability to let a cheap unit assault safely then bring the talons in to finish it off.

Use them as Raptors

Warp talons are just fine as a defensive unit. Your opponent brings something scary towards you, and you rush forward with a 13"-24" range assault unit that can cut an awful lot down. Plus, they can survive well hiding behind stuff and with an invul save.

So long as you don't get silly ideas of them rushing forward blindly and hoping that they make it there, you should be fine. If you use them as a fast attack unit where you intelligently exploit field position problems of your opponents, and quickly react to his mistakes, then yeah, warp talons can do just fine.

Well, not against terminators, but otherwise...

Considering Black Legion just got a supplement codex, chances are pretty decent that eventually the Night Lords will as well. One can only hope that they will have improved rules for running dudes wearing rockets on their backs, and variations as such.

barnowl wrote:
I have seen warp talons use in to stage assaults. Use the blind special ability to let a cheap unit assault safely then bring the talons in to finish it off.

So you are deepstriking within a very close range with an expensive unit in an army with no teleport homers, make sure another assault unit is in range to assault, and then assault with the talons the next turn?

That's..not very good.

I have just decided to get a hold of some to use myself, so here's my plans for them.

A unit of five Talons with Mark of Slaanesh, Khorne or Tzeentch (haven't decided yet) in a Land Raider.

Turn 1: Drive Land Raider foreward 6", disembark 12", and Charge 2"-12". That's 20"-30" covered in your first turn! If you have first turn, odds are pretty decent (at least where I play) that there will be enemy units near the deployment line (aka 24" away from you), and if you move second, it should be even easier, unless you somehow lost your Land Raider already.

Each mark has it's own benefits, but I think I'm leaning mostly to Tzeentch..

MoKhorne: Will kill an average of 9 MEq (12 if Fear Works) on the charge, but unfortunately, they all get to strike back.
MoSlaanesh: Will kill an average of 5.6 MEq (7.5 if Fear Works) on the charge, before they get to strike back.

Both of these statistics are relying on grenades nto being needed, though.

MoTzeentch: Same killing power as Slaanesh, but running with Daemon Allies can get a 2+ Invulnerability save. Opening up for Daemons also lets you take the Khorne Cannon, effectively negating the need for grenades.

PanzerLeader wrote:
I'd take a squad of 6 or 7, give them Mark of Slaanesh, the FNP Icon, and plan on deep striking them in the heart of the enemy to take advantage of the blind radius. Its a high risk, but high reward tactic---particularly against low initiative xenos. Blind also goes before interceptor, so Tau will be shooting interceptor at BS1 66% of the time. It also gives benefits across the army if you reduce BS since it renders the opponent severely weaker for a turn. They are also big enough to still handle GEQ and MEQ units on subsequent turns.

Warp Talons cannot take icons

 Exergy wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:
I'd take a squad of 6 or 7, give them Mark of Slaanesh, the FNP Icon, and plan on deep striking them in the heart of the enemy to take advantage of the blind radius. Its a high risk, but high reward tactic---particularly against low initiative xenos. Blind also goes before interceptor, so Tau will be shooting interceptor at BS1 66% of the time. It also gives benefits across the army if you reduce BS since it renders the opponent severely weaker for a turn. They are also big enough to still handle GEQ and MEQ units on subsequent turns.

Warp Talons cannot take icons

Whoops. I'll change my vote to Nurgle than for the extra durability.

 Jancoran wrote:
I think someone will need to cite the book on that grenades thing.

W40k BRB pg 61 (dark vengeance mini-rulebook):

"Models equipped with assault grenades don't suffer the penalty to their initiative for charging enemies through cover, but fight at their normal iniative in the ensuing combat."

MODELS if it had said, "a unit with at least one model with grenadas...", but instead specifically picks out only individual models.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
sorry, someone beat me to it.

i would say use raptors, they are cheap and expendable. but i'm pretty tzeentchian in that when a unit has fufilled a purpose, i dont care if it dies...

 bmward105 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
I think someone will need to cite the book on that grenades thing.

W40k BRB pg 61 (dark vengeance mini-rulebook):

"Models equipped with assault grenades don't suffer the penalty to their initiative for charging enemies through cover, but fight at their normal iniative in the ensuing combat."

MODELS if it had said, "a unit with at least one model with grenadas...", but instead specifically picks out only individual models.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
sorry, someone beat me to it.

i would say use raptors, they are cheap and expendable. but i'm pretty tzeentchian in that when a unit has fufilled a purpose, i dont care if it dies...

I like your formatting better, thanks

PanzerLeader wrote:
I'd take a squad of 6 or 7, give them Mark of Slaanesh, the FNP Icon, and plan on deep striking them in the heart of the enemy to take advantage of the blind radius. Its a high risk, but high reward tactic

Sorry but this isn't as great as you think. High risk? Yes. High reward? Not in the slightest. T4, 3+, 5++ on 7 guys is not as tough as you think. You are sending a 200pts+ unit into the heart of the enemy to die basically. Any assumption that they will survive until the next turn is a big one. Also, Blind is hugely overrated, given that the majority of units in the game are I4, and most of the others are still I3 (and most of those are in blobs so big that trying to land close to them is too risky).

Also your assertion that Tau will be firing interceptor 66% of the time is very misleading; how are your Talons covering every Interceptor unit in the tau army exactly? One of their multiple Riptides will smile if you try the above tactic.

MoT + ally with Daemons + Grimoire of True Names = 2++.
MoN + Grimoire of True Names is also good. 3++, T5.

I've been wanting to try this. The models are awesome, but it's really expensive. I'm not completely convinced that they are viable yet.

 Exergy wrote:

I like your formatting better, thanks

...stop it... making me blush