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Having just read a piece on the BBC news website I was wondering what the grounds are for the US embargo and are they still valid?

Damn commies!

The embargo was imposed after the rebels overthrew the Batista regime in the 1950s, because they brought in a communist regime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulgencio_Batista
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Revolution

 Wolfstan wrote:
Having just read a piece on the BBC news website I was wondering what the grounds are for the US embargo and are they still valid?

Obstinacy.

 Wolfstan wrote:
Having just read a piece on the BBC news website I was wondering what the grounds are for the US embargo and are they still valid?

Kennedy lost $600 to Castro in a card game. Back in 1960 that was serious bucks. Payback is a bitch...

Ok, so I know the original reason why the US was unhappy, but why has this gone on for so long? The US trades with China & Vietnam, there are talks with the Talaban and the Iron Curtain was stuck in the charity bag of history, so what gives? They not exactly North Korea are they?

 Wolfstan wrote:
Ok, so I know the original reason why the US was unhappy, but why has this gone on for so long? The US trades with China & Vietnam, there are talks with the Talaban and the Iron Curtain was stuck in the charity bag of history, so what gives? They not exactly North Korea are they?

I believe the Obama admin lifted some of the restrictions placed on Cuba but most are still in place I think. Not sure why though. Seems kind of silly

It's kind of like why we throw so much money away on Israel. In this case, there is a large and wealthy population of Cubans in Florida who fled Castro's regime. They are a pillar of support for the Republican Party.

 Wolfstan wrote:
Ok, so I know the original reason why the US was unhappy, but why has this gone on for so long? The US trades with China & Vietnam, there are talks with the Talaban and the Iron Curtain was stuck in the charity bag of history, so what gives? They not exactly North Korea are they?

expatriate Cuban voters.

But wouldn't easing restrictions allow for normality to return? Perhaps even get to the stage where travel between the two of you is restored?

 Manchu wrote:
It's kind of like why we throw so much money away on Israel. In this case, there is a large and wealthy population of Cubans in Florida who fled Castro's regime. They are a pillar of support for the Republican Party.

Now that make sense...

I was struggling why we have it...

I thought it was because of their Zombie infestation .

Last November was pretty interesting, however. Romney failed to nab half the Cuban votes and (although not necessarily because of this alone) lost FL. It's common knowledge that the GOP needs to reshape its rhetoric with Latinos in mind but this is the first time they've lost so much ground with Cuban Americans. In any case, it doesn't really matter what Democrats and Republicans think about Cuba so much as what Cuban Americans think about Cuba because that tends to be a pretty unifying sentiment among that demographic. If Cuban Americans start voting as a Democratic bloc as they have been as a Republican bloc (unlikely unless the GOP can't turn things around with Latinos broadly), then expect Democrats to harden on the embargo. Like I said, if something changes it will be younger Cuban Americans not hating the Castro regime as much as their parents and grand parents and/or the Castro regime finally falling apart.

 Wolfstan wrote:
But wouldn't easing restrictions allow for normality to return? Perhaps even get to the stage where travel between the two of you is restored?

Not sure where you're going with that. Starving Cuba and the Castro regime is the point. The hardliners don't want American dollars flooding in to strengthen and empower it. And Cuba would almost certainly flourish in a major way if the restrictions ended.

 Wolfstan wrote:
But wouldn't easing restrictions allow for normality to return? Perhaps even get to the stage where travel between the two of you is restored?

Cuban Americans with family in Cuba, unlike other U.S. citizens, can already travel there with relative ease. So that's your key demographic already checked off. For other U.S. citizens, there's the rest of the Caribbean or jumping through hoops if you really, really want to go there.

I know some people who jumped through those hoops. Those particular hoops might have closed, however...

 Manchu wrote:

 Wolfstan wrote:
But wouldn't easing restrictions allow for normality to return? Perhaps even get to the stage where travel between the two of you is restored?

Cuban Americans with family in Cuba, unlike other U.S. citizens, can already travel there with relative ease. So that's your key demographic already checked off. For other U.S. citizens, there's the rest of the Caribbean or jumping through hoops if you really, really want to go there.

My family is from Cuba, I'm a first generation American born in Miami. The problem isn't getting there, it's for former Cuban citizens getting back. The Cuban government has shown they show no morals when it comes to defectors. Not to mention that if you left Cuba already, it's for a reason, you'd be hard pressed to find many who want to go back other than to get their relatives.

Sure, I just meant on the U.S. side of things, Cuban Americans can get over there with relative ease. Your post is a great example for Wolfstan, however, of the kind of sentiment that keeps the embargo in place.

 Wolfstan wrote:
But wouldn't easing restrictions allow for normality to return? Perhaps even get to the stage where travel between the two of you is restored?

They don't want normality.

I thought much of it had been opened up at this point though, including visits.

My dad almost fell out of the back of an airplane over Cuba when he and other "volunteers" were throwing supplies out to the "volunteer liberation forces." He suspected it might have been the line of rum and cokes he'd had that night before they took off....

All over $600, talk about holding a grudge.

Ah gotcha. It's really true though, I can only speak from my perspective, but all of my relatives/family friends have pretty much vowed never to return to Cuba until it's a non-communist state. Despite the revolutionaries like Che Guevara being somewhat idolized in modern culture, they were really pretty awful people to those who didn't want to follow their ideals.

I think the important thing you have to ask though, how is the rum in Cuba?

 Frazzled wrote:
I think the important thing you have to ask though, how is the rum in Cuba?

When I was in the virgin islands 10 yrs ago... we had some "Cuban Rum"... it was really REALLY good.

Now, those "Cuban Cigars"? Bleh... they were crap.

I see. Thanks guys I have a better understanding of the situation now. Hopefully in time things will change and return to normality for the population.

It's a process that needs to start in Havana, not D.C. -- nor even Miami.

 whembly wrote:

Now, those "Cuban Cigars"? Bleh... they were crap.

That's because, due to the worldwide demand for them, 95% of the "Cuban" cigars you can find are fakes. I wouldn't mind trying one when the embargo goes away, but the prices will probably be astronomical (due to the huge demand in the US that will happen), and I already like my Padrons.

I have had some nice Cuban cigars in Europe, they were pretty tasty.

I might not even mind doing the tourist thing over there sometime. Fly to Canada, put my US passport in my bag, take out my German passport and jump on a plane to Cuba and enjoy the beach!

 d-usa wrote:
I have had some nice Cuban cigars in Europe, they were pretty tasty.

I might not even mind doing the tourist thing over there sometime. Fly to Canada, put my US passport in my bag, take out my German passport and jump on a plane to Cuba and enjoy the beach!

Ah, the perks of dual citizenship.

 Wolfstan wrote:
Ok, so I know the original reason why the US was unhappy, but why has this gone on for so long? The US trades with China & Vietnam, there are talks with the Talaban and the Iron Curtain was stuck in the charity bag of history, so what gives? They not exactly North Korea are they?

No, but the point of it was to weaken the Communist government. Which it has succeeded in doing.

But the government isn't gone yet, so there is some argument for keeping it in place.


Its a question of what will make the communist government fall faster. Keeping the stranglehold and wait for their citizens to overthrow them, or suddenly flood them with capitalism by lifting the embargo and their citizens suddenly see what they've been missing.

Drawbacks for option 1: The government stays in power and eventually manages to build its own industry and remain self-sufficient. Cuba still remains very little threat as an underdeveloped nation.

Drawbacks for option 2: The government is strengthened by having more access to commerce and remains in power. It will fall eventually, likely becoming more like China(increasingly capitalistic economy with totalitarian government) but it will remain an oppressive government. Maybe for longer than if we had gone for option 1.

I'm a little torn on which is the best course of action in this instance.

 Manchu wrote:
It's a process that needs to start in Havana, not D.C. -- nor even Miami.

Soak them in the rum, then.

 Grey Templar wrote:
But the government isn't gone yet, so there is some argument for keeping it in place.

No, there is no argument for keeping it. The US has no problem dealing with countries that are just as bad, if not worse. The only reason the embargo remains is because certain politicians rely on votes from an obnoxious single-issue minority and have to at least pretend to care about Cuba to keep getting elected.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
But the government isn't gone yet, so there is some argument for keeping it in place.

No, there is no argument for keeping it. The US has no problem dealing with countries that are just as bad, if not worse. The only reason the embargo remains is because certain politicians rely on votes from an obnoxious single-issue minority and have to at least pretend to care about Cuba to keep getting elected.

..and that's, my friends how representative democracy works.