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HQ:
Ahriman (Warlord)
230pt

Herald of Tzeentch
Lvl 3 Psyker
Exalted reward (portalglyph)
125pt

Elite:
3 Flamers of Tzeentch
69pts
3 Flamers of Tzeentch
69pts

Troop:
10 Cultists
50pt
15 Thousand Sons
380pt

17 Pink Horrors
153pt
17 Pink Horrors
153pt


FA:
Heldrake w Baleflamer
170pt

5 Screamers of Tzeentch (I only own 5 :( )
125pt

HS:
Burning Chariot of Tzeentch
100pts (I love the model, I literally bought one for the herald but it's treated me good so far, as long as I don't misplay)

Obliterator (MoN)
76pts
Obliterator (MoN)
76pts
Obliterator (MoN)
76pts

1852pt

I was originally going to run a forgefiend instead of the Havocs but I'm torn between the two

I really want to make Ahriman and the Thousand Sons semi-competitive but I don't know quite what I need to change as I'm still new. I also have one heldrake, one dakkafiend, 2 demon princes,20 Demonettes, 20 Hounds, lots of terminators, 15 Raptors, 3 obliterators , 17 bikes etc so other options are not a problem

if it were me, i would drop 1 Predator tank and drop the Havocs to a 5 or 6 man squad with 4 AC they work amazing. With the extra points throw in the hell drake they can pop a light transport and kill most of the squad inside. which is very nice and they look amazing on the table. Also i am not very sold on the helbrute's there kinda meh.

I'm also pretty iffy on the helbrutes myself. The main problem I'm worried about is AV14 if I drop the Lascannons.
I like the autocannon idea myself, maybe drop the helbrutes and use the extra HS slot for 6 havocs with lascannons?

This list is illegal, you can only take heralds if demons are your main army

Don't remember seeing that restriction anywhere.^^

I'm fairly certain you can take a herald as an allied HQ, you just cant have more than one as the entire slot. But I could be wrong

Page 94 at the top "each primary detachment in your army may include up to four heralds of chaos chosen in any combination from the following models... this selection uses a single hq slot from the force org chart."

it says they all use a single hq slot but can't be taken unless in the main detachment.

I stand corrected then, my bad


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Then who would be a good idea to replace the herald with? I have a fateweaver, bloodthirster, demon prince, a conversion prince that I can pass off as a proxied keeper or something...

if you're going shooty then fateweaver is really awesome a demon prince is really expensive at 355 but is a nasty close combat surprise, especially if you get iron arm on him. Also think about a great unclean one he is slow but is good in cc and is really tough to kill.

I could probably incorporate fateweaver into the list, if I drop the brutes I free up 250pts and I could probably scrape the 50pts from the extra men on the havocs, ill type up another list possibility

 l000babyseals wrote:
I'm fairly certain you can take a herald as an allied HQ, you just cant have more than one as the entire slot. But I could be wrong

You're not wrong.

Wait, does anyone know for sure if you can have a herald as an allied HQ or not? Would they be treated like the Masque where it takes up one HQ slot?

If you look at the top of page 94 it's pretty clear.

But in the end it is still an HQ choice, it doesn't state you cannot have a herald as an HQ, it just says you cannot have four in one slot.
It's a strange wording, I wish they would have FAQd it in the last rounds

bagtagger wrote:
Page 94 at the top "each primary detachment in your army may include up to four heralds of chaos chosen in any combination from the following models... this selection uses a single hq slot from the force org chart."

it says they all use a single hq slot but can't be taken unless in the main detachment.

It say nothing of the sort. It says as a priamry detachment you can have up to for but does not restrict taking a single herald as an HQ for allies.

Alright, awesome


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think I'm dropping the helbrutes and the forgefiend and replacing the heavy bolters on the havocs with lascannons to boost my AV14 defense, which leaves me with just under 400 points to spend, but I don't know what to spend it on...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, aside from a heldrake which I'm adding, I have 215 points left to spend

Flamers and screamers ?

I actually found my old flamers/Screamer models the other day and forgot all about them!

Okay, so here's some changes:
HQ:
Ahriman (Warlord)
230pt

Herald of Tzeentch
Lvl 3 Psyker
Exalted reward (portalglyph)

Elite:
5 Flamers of Tzeentch
115 pt

Troop:
9 Thousand Sons
265pt
15 Thousand Sons
380pt
16 Pink Horrors
Icon of Chaos
144pt

FA:
Heldrake w Baleflamer
170pt

5 Screamers of Tzeentch (I only own 5 :( )
125pt

HS:
Predator
TL Lascannon
Lascannon Sponsons
140pt

6 Havocs
4 Lascannons
168pts

I was thinking of dropping the 9 man squad of Thousand Sons and replace them with a squad of CSM, or replace them with a squad of cultists clearing up215 points to spend either in another Demons troop (Probably demonettes) or another Predator/more flamers
Any ideas?

Trim the thousand suns to 2 x 10
bring the other predator back.
missile launcher havocs for aa ?

Your right 1 troop of thousand sons
1 troop csm

I'm hesitant to trim the 15 man squad as I'll be infiltrating it with Master of Deception and the extra AP3 from the infiltrated squad in the beginning is nice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But I agree, I like having the second predator myself,

flamers/ helldrake anti troops.
preds/screamers/ anti tank.
helldrake anti air via vector strike.
havocs with missiles for AA.

Thats two ways to kill anything.

I dropped the 9 man unit and replaced them with a 10 man squad CSM MoS, pistol + chainsword, 2 Plasma, and an IoE
I then changed the Havocs to 1 Lascannon 3 Missile Launchers with 3 flakk missiles which brings me to 1848 pts

I'm worried about the havocs becoming useless after they fire all their missiles, but I haven't ran them like this before so I don't know. Any feedback on them?

Maybe http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/480317.page view that



Automatically Appended Next Post:
OR better still this
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/So_You_Want_to_Play_Chaos_%286th_Ed%29

These are posted by tourney players, I don't know if you want to compete or just play friendly games.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/So_You_Want_to_Play_Chaos_%286th_Ed%29_-_Part_2

The Traitor equivalent of Devestators has an important role in a competitive Chaos list. 75 points before upgrades gives you 5 simple CSM, with heavy weapons ranging from 5pts for a Flamer, to 20pts for Lascannons. Taking Lascannons will prove effective, but it'll add up, pretty damm quickly, and Lascannons can be taken for cheaper elsewhere. I think for 10pts, the humble Autocannon is pretty much the best weapon in the Havocs armoury. Despite the fact that these are one of the first units in the entire game with access to Flakk Missiles, frankly these are a bit of a waste of points. Yes, you get a S7 Skyfire shot, but it's one shot for 25pts/model. Taking Flakks on the whole squad costs 60pts more than 4x Autocannons, with only half the shots of exactly the same stats. Is Skyfire really worth an extra 15pts and a 50% decrease in damage output? I'll let you decide that for yourself but personally I'm going with Autocannons every time. If you come up against a Horde-dominated environment, the Heavy Bolters and Flamers could prove to be effective against the likes of Orks and Tyranids, and can provide some scary Overwatch damage too if you go down the Flamer route.

If like me you're going with the 4x Autocannon route, there's very little that this squad can't take on, namely the heaviest armour, such as Land Raiders and Monoliths, and the toughest Monstrous Creatures such as Wraithlords and Riptides. The latter however, can still be dropped through the sheer number of shots, but those particular targets warrant some lower-Ap firepower such as Plasma and Melta. However, one area in which the squad excels is in anti-Flyer support. For around 200 points, you can take a squad of Havocs sitting on an Aegis Line with a Quad Gun. This unit pumps out 12 S7 shots with a 48" threat radius, 4 of which are Skyfire and Twin-Linked, enough to make any Flyer short of a Manta think twice about getting too close.

As for other upgrades, it can't hurt to add a couple of extra guys to the unit. Sure, only 4 guys can take heavy weapons, but for each guy lost, that's a significant amount of firepower you're using. Take a couple of extra guys, no more than 2 to be honest, as ablative wounds. When considering Marks, probably best to avoid all but Nurgle. Taking MoN in the example I presented above makes the unit hunkering behind the Aegis even harder to shift, but the other Marks and Icons aren't really worth it to be honest.

Conclusion: Very good unit with a large variety of possible targets. Autocannon squads are probably the best Flyer deterrent in the Codex with the possible exception of the Heldrake. Highly Competitive

I want to get into a more competitive list so I can learn alot quickly, but I've only been playing against one of my friends that runs IG. I'm planning on joining the local club tomorrow

well them links should help.
Feel sorry for your m8, with this list.
2am here so going now.
see ya

Thanks man, that was alot of help

i like your new list. still would say go AC as you really do not see a whole lot of av 14 in 6th but if it works for you then go for it

 Lovechunks wrote:
i like your new list. still would say go AC as you really do not see a whole lot of av 14 in 6th but if it works for you then go for it

Auto cannons are good all rounders as weapons go, so that's definitely an idea, cheaper too.
Auto cannons seem harder to get as bits though.

I decided on using the autocannons, the only friend I havw that plays 40k uses IG so I use lascannons usually. Here's what I'm bringing to a local gaming club in case I get a game in tonight:

HQ:
Ahriman (Warlord)
230pt

Herald of Tzeentch
Lvl 3 Psyker
Exalted reward (portalglyph)
125pt

Elite:
5 Flamers of Tzeentch
115 pt

Troop:
15 CSM
VotLW
2 Plasma Guns
Icon of Vengeance
275pt

15 Thousand Sons
380pt

18 Pink Horrors
162pt

FA:
Heldrake w Baleflamer
170pt

5 Screamers of Tzeentch (I only own 5 :( )
125pt

HS:
Predator
TL Lascannon
Lascannon Sponsons
140pt

6 Havocs
4 Autocannons
128pt


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 loki old fart wrote:

 Lovechunks wrote:
i like your new list. still would say go AC as you really do not see a whole lot of av 14 in 6th but if it works for you then go for it

Auto cannons are good all rounders as weapons go, so that's definitely an idea, cheaper too.
Auto cannons seem harder to get as bits though.

Yeah thats the kicker, I'm going to hunt some down at my local place as he has used pieces there. I think I saw a devistator squad that may have them attached

Imho you should cut out a helbrute and add in a Lord of change, replace the Herald with him (the Herald is illegal anyway) and cut down on a few horrors/rubrics and you can probably afford one. (Note: You have 7 Lascannons and 3 of which are twin-linked, add in the chance of getting doombolt and you have enough anti-tank in a list of this size to not worry about dropping a helbrute)