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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/22 13:36:00
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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"and they also become part of the independent characters 'unit' for all rule purposes"
Do you havea rules quote to back that up?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/22 13:54:37
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Fixture of Dakka
Vanished Completely
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You will have to wait till I get home and can put more research into it but I think you will find it within the independent character rule set within the special rule section of the book. I will admit the inclusion of the 'models within the unit becoming part of his units' could be taken incorrectly if you really want to split hairs. It might not be an exact quote from the rules to state that they both join each other but it doesn't change the way the rules themselves function. Wither stated as 'he joins their units' or 'they join his unit' or 'they both join each others unit' the effect is still the same as per the rules; they are now treated as if they are a single unit unless otherwise stated. There are probably a handful of rules that do not treat the independent join character as part of the unit they joined, but the majority of rules are resolved as if the independent-joined unit is a single unit, not some situation where there is a unit within a unit. In this situation it would mean you are not trying to join the independent character to a second unit but are instead trying to join the whole first unit to the second unit; which would require permission for every model in the first unit to join another unit.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/22 15:00:06
8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/22 15:20:18
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Page 39, last I read, does not contain any such vebiage. The IC joins *them*, it doesnt get joined by the unit
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 0024/10/26 16:58:27
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Fixture of Dakka
Vanished Completely
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Accepted, but that doesn't change the fact it is all treated as a single unit afterwards.
In order to join these two units together, one already containing the Independent Character and the second unit he wishes to also join, all models in the first unit would need a special rule granting permission to carry out such a merger with the second group. Simply having access to a special rule on a single model does not grant permission for every other model in the unit to also benefit, unless it out right states that it grants a benefit to the unit as a whole of course. In order to join these two units one would need more then just an Independent Character and an argument that is summed up as 'it exists in a state between the two of them, while they remain as separate units.' There needs to be a specific rule granting permission for the rest of the unit containing the independent character to also join the other unit.
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8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/23 01:19:12
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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JinxDragon wrote:Accepted, but that doesn't change the fact it is all treated as a single unit afterwards.
In order to join these two units together, one already containing the Independent Character and the second unit he wishes to also join, all models in the first unit would need a special rule granting permission to carry out such a merger with the second group. Simply having access to a special rule on a single model does not grant permission for every other model in the unit to also benefit, unless it out right states that it grants a benefit to the unit as a whole of course. In order to join these two units one would need more then just an Independent Character and an argument that is summed up as 'it exists in a state between the two of them, while they remain as separate units.' There needs to be a specific rule granting permission for the rest of the unit containing the independent character to also join the other unit.
The IC rule makes no mention of the entire unit needing it for it to operate.
After a careful review of the IC and unit rules I find no evidence that the two units could be considered joined into one unit in any case. So in answer to the OP, no, an IC cannot join two units together. They would, most brokenly, be two separate units that share the IC as a member. On the up side, he'd get to shoot twice in the shooting phase but on the down side, figuring out how to make a charge move would be a nightmare....
As stated before I would not play that way. I'm just pointing out and absurdity in RAW, not HYWPI or RAI.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/23 01:25:05
-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/23 01:25:13
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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Except that is not RAW, as an IC does not have permission to join two units at once.
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/23 01:52:13
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Lieutenant General
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Abandon wrote:
The IC rule makes no mention of the entire unit needing it for it to operate.
With a permissive rules set they wouldn't need to. You would need a rule that would allow the two units to join each other.
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/23 02:31:57
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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DeathReaper wrote:Except that is not RAW, as an IC does not have permission to join two units at once.
"does not have permission to join two units at once". Yes, it is denied that possibility.
You have yet to provide a rule stating that it cannot be joined to two units at once. I think you are still confused about the differences in wording.
'...join two units at once' - This wording indicates an action... of joining two units a the same time. As in it was not part of either unit and all at once joins both. Permission for that is denied because during movement it can only pick one unit to join.
'...be joined to two units at once' - This wording indicates a state of being... part of to two units at the same time that does not denote how or when the unions came about and is not denied to the IC.
An action is not the same as a state of being. The action of joining two units at once is denied by the rule that limits the IC to having to choose which unit to join during movement. There is nothing to stop the IC though from joining unit A and then on its next turn joining unit B without leaving unit A because it did not join both at once, it joined them on different turns one at a time.... I don't know how to be more clear.
"If the Independent Character is within 2" of more than one unit at the end of its Movement phase, the player must declare which unit it is joining."
This only limits the number of units it can join at the end of the movement phase and says nothing about the total number of units it can be a part of at once.
Also, remember you must take specific action to remove the IC from unit A, if that is not done when it joins unit B you have no RaW standing to claim it's not part of both units. Automatically Appended Next Post: Ghaz wrote: Abandon wrote:
The IC rule makes no mention of the entire unit needing it for it to operate.
With a permissive rules set they wouldn't need to. You would need a rule that would allow the two units to join each other.
Abandon wrote:
After a careful review of the IC and unit rules I find no evidence that the two units could be considered joined into one unit in any case. So in answer to the OP, no, an IC cannot join two units together. They would, most brokenly, be two separate units that share the IC as a member...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/23 02:35:25
-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/23 05:46:36
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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If you have joined to two units then at some point you were joining two units. Do you have a rules quote that backs up your claim, you have not provided one yet.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/23 05:47:17
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/23 15:33:00
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
Wiltshire
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Abandon wrote: DeathReaper wrote:Except that is not RAW, as an IC does not have permission to join two units at once.
"does not have permission to join two units at once". Yes, it is denied that possibility.
You have yet to provide a rule stating that it cannot be joined to two units at once. I think you are still confused about the differences in wording.
'...join two units at once' - This wording indicates an action... of joining two units a the same time. As in it was not part of either unit and all at once joins both. Permission for that is denied because during movement it can only pick one unit to join.
'...be joined to two units at once' - This wording indicates a state of being... part of to two units at the same time that does not denote how or when the unions came about and is not denied to the IC.
An action is not the same as a state of being. The action of joining two units at once is denied by the rule that limits the IC to having to choose which unit to join during movement. There is nothing to stop the IC though from joining unit A and then on its next turn joining unit B without leaving unit A because it did not join both at once, it joined them on different turns one at a time.... I don't know how to be more clear.
"If the Independent Character is within 2" of more than one unit at the end of its Movement phase, the player must declare which unit it is joining."
This only limits the number of units it can join at the end of the movement phase and says nothing about the total number of units it can be a part of at once.
Also, remember you must take specific action to remove the IC from unit A, if that is not done when it joins unit B you have no RaW standing to claim it's not part of both units.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ghaz wrote: Abandon wrote:
The IC rule makes no mention of the entire unit needing it for it to operate.
With a permissive rules set they wouldn't need to. You would need a rule that would allow the two units to join each other.
Abandon wrote:
After a careful review of the IC and unit rules I find no evidence that the two units could be considered joined into one unit in any case. So in answer to the OP, no, an IC cannot join two units together. They would, most brokenly, be two separate units that share the IC as a member...
Find permission for a member of a unit to join a different one.
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Note to the reader: my username is not arrogance. No, my name is taken from the most excellent of commanders: Lord Castellan Creed, of the Imperial Guar- I mean Astra Militarum - who has a special rule known only as "Tactical Genius"... Although nowhere near as awesome as before, it now allows some cool stuff for the Guar- Astra Militarum - player. FEAR ME AND MY TWO WARLORD TRAITS. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/24 02:03:49
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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DeathReaper wrote:If you have joined to two units then at some point you were joining two units.
Do you have a rules quote that backs up your claim, you have not provided one yet.
But did not join them in the same movement phase, which is not denied.
You want me to quote the rule that allows ICs to join units? I'd think you'd be rather familiar with those but alright.
"In order to join a unit, an Independent Character simply has to move so that he is within the 2" unit coherency distance of a friendly unit at the end of their Movement phase. If the Independent Character is within 2" of more than one unit at the end of its Movement phase, the player must declare which unit it is joining." -Page 39 BRB
So there, the IC can join up to one unit during the movement phase. If it's already attached to a unit when it joins another, it's now attached to both.
Tactical_Genius wrote:
Find permission for a member of a unit to join a different one.
If that member has the IC SR the IC rules give it permission.
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-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/24 04:45:32
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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Abandon wrote:DeathReaper wrote:If you have joined to two units then at some point you were joining two units.
Do you have a rules quote that backs up your claim, you have not provided one yet.
But did not join them in the same movement phase, which is not denied.
Yea, permissive ruleset...
"The rules don't say I can't!"
This is the most annoying argument ever made. If you've been forced to resort to it, your argument is immediately false. The rules don't say I can't place my models back on the board after you've killed them and use them next turn, but that doesn't mean I can do it. The rules system is permissive: this means you may only do things you are expressly allowed to do or that the rules imply you can do. You are not allowed to do anything else.
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/24 12:44:23
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Beast of Nurgle
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Abandon wrote:
"In order to join a unit, an Independent Character simply has to move so that he is within the 2" unit coherency distance of a friendly unit at the end of their Movement phase. If the Independent Character is within 2" of more than one unit at the end of its Movement phase, the player must declare which unit it is joining." -Page 39 BRB
So there, the IC can join up to one unit during the movement phase. If it's already attached to a unit when it joins another, it's now attached to both.
While the BRB does say that, I think your interpretation is a bit off. By your reading, a Lord Commissar can start the movement phase attached to a ten man squad, then move to within 2" of a heavy weapons squad and join them too, then the next turn the whole fan club moves up to a special weapons team and they join the Lord Commissar's party. Which is of course a little absurd.
By applying that rule exactly as it is written. When (from the previous example) the Lord commissar moves up to within 2" of the heavy weapons team he is now within two inches of both the ten man squad and the heavy weapons team. He must now choose which squad he is going to spend the turn with. The fact that he was joined to the previous unit does not matter since the rule requires you to check to see if the IC is within 2" of a squad after he has moved. Then the rule tells us what to do if multiple squads are within 2" of the IC.
In addition. I wish you good luck finding a judge or TO that would agree with your interpretation.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/08/24 12:45:33
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/24 19:59:30
Subject: Re:Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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The way they have written it an IC can join as many units as he would like but he then falsl under all the restrictions as such. As soon as he joins a second unit he cannot move as you cannot move a second unit until you have finished moving the first which you cannot complete. He would also be subject to wounds from attacks against all the units he has joined. He cannot shoot just as with movement nor can he charge thereby eliminating all the units from charging. So you now have a blob based around a single IC that can't do much. They are all individual units with a single member that is part of other units. I can see where you might want to do this to provide a more durable bubble wrap but in the end a single model such as a high toughness MC could conceivably tar pit all the units.
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ADD causes my posts to ramble from time to time. Please bear with me.
You're not a Time Lord stick with linear time.
Specific Vs General |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/24 20:41:47
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
Wiltshire
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Actually I've just thought of something which goes against the "can be joined to more than one unit" theory.
The rule states that the IC must "choose" which it is joining. Te word "choose" implies a choice between one or more units. If he cannot choose the unit he is already joined to, then there is no choice of units, therefore you cannot "choose". This means the interpretation must be false.
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Note to the reader: my username is not arrogance. No, my name is taken from the most excellent of commanders: Lord Castellan Creed, of the Imperial Guar- I mean Astra Militarum - who has a special rule known only as "Tactical Genius"... Although nowhere near as awesome as before, it now allows some cool stuff for the Guar- Astra Militarum - player. FEAR ME AND MY TWO WARLORD TRAITS. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/24 22:51:40
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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DeathReaper wrote: Abandon wrote:DeathReaper wrote:If you have joined to two units then at some point you were joining two units.
Do you have a rules quote that backs up your claim, you have not provided one yet.
But did not join them in the same movement phase, which is not denied.
Yea, permissive ruleset...
"The rules don't say I can't!"
This is the most annoying argument ever made. If you've been forced to resort to it, your argument is immediately false. The rules don't say I can't place my models back on the board after you've killed them and use them next turn, but that doesn't mean I can do it. The rules system is permissive: this means you may only do things you are expressly allowed to do or that the rules imply you can do. You are not allowed to do anything else.
If that's all my argument boiled down to you'd be right but the fact is you are given permission to join units during movement. It only limits it to joining one per turn.
lordwellingstone wrote:Abandon wrote:
"In order to join a unit, an Independent Character simply has to move so that he is within the 2" unit coherency distance of a friendly unit at the end of their Movement phase. If the Independent Character is within 2" of more than one unit at the end of its Movement phase, the player must declare which unit it is joining." -Page 39 BRB
So there, the IC can join up to one unit during the movement phase. If it's already attached to a unit when it joins another, it's now attached to both.
While the BRB does say that, I think your interpretation is a bit off. By your reading, a Lord Commissar can start the movement phase attached to a ten man squad, then move to within 2" of a heavy weapons squad and join them too, then the next turn the whole fan club moves up to a special weapons team and they join the Lord Commissar's party. Which is of course a little absurd.
By applying that rule exactly as it is written. When (from the previous example) the Lord commissar moves up to within 2" of the heavy weapons team he is now within two inches of both the ten man squad and the heavy weapons team. He must now choose which squad he is going to spend the turn with. The fact that he was joined to the previous unit does not matter since the rule requires you to check to see if the IC is within 2" of a squad after he has moved. Then the rule tells us what to do if multiple squads are within 2" of the IC.
In addition. I wish you good luck finding a judge or TO that would agree with your interpretation.
Gravmyr wrote:The way they have written it an IC can join as many units as he would like but he then falsl under all the restrictions as such. As soon as he joins a second unit he cannot move as you cannot move a second unit until you have finished moving the first which you cannot complete. He would also be subject to wounds from attacks against all the units he has joined. He cannot shoot just as with movement nor can he charge thereby eliminating all the units from charging. So you now have a blob based around a single IC that can't do much. They are all individual units with a single member that is part of other units. I can see where you might want to do this to provide a more durable bubble wrap but in the end a single model such as a high toughness MC could conceivably tar pit all the units.
Extremely broken is what I'd call it. As I previously stated, I'm only pointing out an RAW absurdity. I'm not suggesting that anyone plays this way or that I do.
Tactical_Genius wrote:Actually I've just thought of something which goes against the "can be joined to more than one unit" theory.
The rule states that the IC must "choose" which it is joining. Te word "choose" implies a choice between one or more units. If he cannot choose the unit he is already joined to, then there is no choice of units, therefore you cannot "choose". This means the interpretation must be false.
Choosing to join unit B does not detach the IC from unit A as it is written. The only way to do that would be to move more than 2" away from unit A. Barring that action, the IC continues to be part of unit A when it decides to join unit B.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/24 22:52:28
-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/24 23:32:24
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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It limits you to choosing one of the two units to join...
Choosing unit B and not choosing unit A means he is not a part of unit A (A concept you are not grasping).
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/24 23:35:15
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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DeathReaper wrote:
Choosing unit B and not choosing unit A means he is not a part of unit A
Citation required.
Edit: This is the part you are not grasping
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/24 23:37:05
-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/25 00:19:51
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Again: where does it say you detach from Unit A?
Page and para.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/25 02:10:30
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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He has a choice of units to join... He chooses A then he has not joined B and as such is detached from B by virtue of not joining them... "If the Independent Character is within 2" of more than one unit at the end of its Movement phase, the player must declare which unit it is joining." If you declare A then you are not joining B even though you are within 2 inches of them and as such you leave B if you choose to join A.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/25 02:12:48
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/25 02:26:04
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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DeathReaper wrote:He has a choice of units to join...
He chooses A then he has not joined B and as such is detached from B by virtue of not joining them...
"If the Independent Character is within 2" of more than one unit at the end of its Movement phase, the player must declare which unit it is joining."
If you declare A then you are not joining B even though you are within 2 inches of them and as such you leave B if you choose to join A.
That quote does not say what you think it says. Unless otherwise noted, joining unit A only means you are joining unit A and joining unit B only means you are joining unit B. There is no leaving of anything mentioned.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/25 05:55:41
-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/25 05:39:31
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant
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Jesus mary and joseph simple flipping english here. The UNIT does not join the IC the IC joins the unit.
Ok the IC at the end of the IC's movement is with 2inches of 2 or more units. It specifically orders you to declare which unit he is joining.
IF it joins that unit it becomes a CHARACTER of the unit it joins until it leaves. (page 39 IC last paragraph on the left side of the entry) thus while a member of any unit until leaving IC's are only characters
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/25 05:54:07
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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wargamer1985 wrote:Jesus mary and joseph simple flipping english here. The UNIT does not join the IC the IC joins the unit.
Ok the IC at the end of the IC's movement is with 2inches of 2 or more units. It specifically orders you to declare which unit he is joining.
IF it joins that unit it becomes a CHARACTER of the unit it joins until it leaves. (page 39 IC last paragraph on the left side of the entry) thus while a member of any unit until leaving IC's are only characters
That is incorrect. Not only is it no stated in the rules but being an IC is the only thing that allows it to leave the unit by moving 2 inches away. If it were treated as just a character, it would be unable to leave the unit. The IC rules are necessarily retained while it is with the unit it joins.
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-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/25 06:56:01
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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Abandon wrote: DeathReaper wrote:He has a choice of units to join...
He chooses A then he has not joined B and as such is detached from B by virtue of not joining them...
"If the Independent Character is within 2" of more than one unit at the end of its Movement phase, the player must declare which unit it is joining."
If you declare A then you are not joining B even though you are within 2 inches of them and as such you leave B if you choose to join A.
That quote does not say what you think it says. Unless otherwise noted, joining unit A only means you are joining unit A and joining unit B only means you are joining unit B. There is no leaving of anything mentioned.
It doesn't need to specifically mention leaving, as declaring which unit you are joining tells us that you are leaving the other unit to which you were attached.
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/25 09:32:27
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
Wiltshire
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Abandon wrote:
Tactical_Genius wrote:Actually I've just thought of something which goes against the "can be joined to more than one unit" theory.
The rule states that the IC must "choose" which it is joining. Te word "choose" implies a choice between one or more units. If he cannot choose the unit he is already joined to, then there is no choice of units, therefore you cannot "choose". This means the interpretation must be false.
Choosing to join unit B does not detach the IC from unit A as it is written. The only way to do that would be to move more than 2" away from unit A. Barring that action, the IC continues to be part of unit A when it decides to join unit B.
No, my point is, if it must choose one of the units, and according to you unit A is not a valid choice (it can't join again), then there is no "choice". This means your interpretation invalidates part of the RAW, and so must be incorrect.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/25 09:34:18
Note to the reader: my username is not arrogance. No, my name is taken from the most excellent of commanders: Lord Castellan Creed, of the Imperial Guar- I mean Astra Militarum - who has a special rule known only as "Tactical Genius"... Although nowhere near as awesome as before, it now allows some cool stuff for the Guar- Astra Militarum - player. FEAR ME AND MY TWO WARLORD TRAITS. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/25 09:53:30
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant
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It CLEARLY states an ic becomes a member of the unit it CHOOSES to join and acts like a character while a member oc said unit. It also states CLEARLY that you must choose which unit an IC is attached to at the end of the IC's movement phase.
Lets see some citation of actual rules that allows you to do what ypu claim and not just your opinion as as at least 2 of us have now pointed the rule in its correct use and people who want to do it are giving the opinion they can with no rule back up
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/25 12:13:50
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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DR - stating "I am joining Steam" (Unit B) does not mean I have to have left Origin.
I am joined to A. I declare I am joining B. Nothing in that statement states I am also leaving A.
Where you are failing is that you have not proven that the rules state you can only be joined to a single unit at a time. If you can prove this, then by default joining B requires leaving A. However this is *not* something you have proved.
And no, this is NOT a "it doesnt say I cant" argument. I have unlimited permission to join units, and no restriciton on how many I join. If you think otherwise, prove it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/25 14:32:42
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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nosferatu1001 wrote:DR - stating "I am joining Steam" (Unit B) does not mean I have to have left Origin.
It does within the 40k ruleset. It is implied that a model with the IC rule, by virtue of choosing which unit to join, has left any units they did not choose to join.
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/25 15:09:51
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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There is no such implication. You certainly cannot state it is RAW.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/25 15:28:29
Subject: Can you join two units together with an IC?
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
Wiltshire
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Nos - have you looked at my last post? It throws in implications you have not countered.
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Note to the reader: my username is not arrogance. No, my name is taken from the most excellent of commanders: Lord Castellan Creed, of the Imperial Guar- I mean Astra Militarum - who has a special rule known only as "Tactical Genius"... Although nowhere near as awesome as before, it now allows some cool stuff for the Guar- Astra Militarum - player. FEAR ME AND MY TWO WARLORD TRAITS. |
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