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I'm unsure if this idea is doable or if it's too expensive to be effective... (I'm considering starting CSMs, so I want to plan everything out before buying anything.)
Essentially, the plan is to take Bikers, give them the Mark of Nurgle and 2 meltaguns, and then attach a Nurgle sorcerer with 3 Mastery levels and either a Palanquin for the extra wounds or a bike to save points and get the +1 Toughness.
Roll Biomancy to get Endurance on the sorcerer, giving your bike squad T6 and Feel No Pain. Not to mention, they'll likely either have a beastly warrior in their midst, (Iron Arm potentially gives 4 wounds, T8 and a S7 force weapin,) or else their enemies will be at -1 Toughness and Strength to make them easy pickings.
The problem is, it costs about 400 Points and only has 8-10 wounds unless you buy even more bikes.

If it were too expensive, tonnes of people wouldn't be running it already, though don't think about the Palanquin at all as it is too slow to keep up with Bikes.

Also, they don't need Endurance for T6, the Mark of Nurgle takes care of that.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Also, they don't need Endurance for T6, the Mark of Nurgle takes care of that.

Endurance is for the Feel No Pain.
Godless, for some reason I was thinking that the Palanquin made you cavalry. Bike it is.

Don't bother with MoN for the sorcerer. You've got three attempts to get invisibility that way, which means you've got T6 with a 2+ cover save.

 Ailaros wrote:
Don't bother with MoN for the sorcerer. You've got three attempts to get invisibility that way, which means you've got T6 with a 2+ cover save.

So what mark should I take? Any? Or are the others not worth it?

I agree with Ailaros, wouldn't bother taking a mark on the Sorcerer at all. He'll get average T6 by being with the Nurgle bikers, and that frees him up for more awesome powers. Telepathy & Biomancy ftw.

Would the Mark of Tzeentch and Sigil of Corruption do me good? 3++ is always nice.

Yup. Two words - majority toughness.

Only when the sorcerer is literally by himself (or in a squad with worse toughness) do you not get the advantage of the T6 from the rest of the bikes. Of course, sorcs are cheap enough where you can get lvl 3 mastery, and a bike, and a sigil, which means your opponent is wounding against T6, and you get a 2+ LoS!, and THEN you get a 4++ (or 2+ cover with invisibility).

That sorceror is going to be plenty tough without MoN. I'd only bother with it for fluff reasons.


---

You can't attach a MoT sorc to a MoN squad, so no dice on that.

Right.
I'm trying to create a sort of 'Indestructible' 2000 Point list that hits hard but emphasizes on being hard to kill... I'm thinking Typhus, a Nurgle Lord, a (completely unbiased) sorcerer, 120 Zonbies, 2 squads of 5 Plague Marines with 2 plasmaguns each, 2 Helldrakes, and the plague biker squad.
Does this seem good? Or is anything too expensive/not going to do its job properly?

Waaaghpower wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
Don't bother with MoN for the sorcerer. You've got three attempts to get invisibility that way, which means you've got T6 with a 2+ cover save.

So what mark should I take? Any? Or are the others not worth it?

none of the marks on sorcerers are worth it. Why pay 15 points to trade a potentailly good power for a bad power?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Waaaghpower wrote:
Would the Mark of Tzeentch and Sigil of Corruption do me good? 3++ is always nice.

you cant put MoT ICs into MoN units etc.
This is another reason to leave your sorc unmarked. If the bikes get chewed up, (like i dunno a helrake comes by and kills basically all of them) you can run to another squad. If you are unmarked you can join any squad in your army.

Of course if you only have MoN and unmarked units in your army this doesnt do anything, but it is something to keep in mind.

 Exergy wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
Don't bother with MoN for the sorcerer. You've got three attempts to get invisibility that way, which means you've got T6 with a 2+ cover save.

So what mark should I take? Any? Or are the others not worth it?

none of the marks on sorcerers are worth it. Why pay 15 points to trade a potentailly good power for a bad power?

I disagree to an extent. I run MoS on my Bike Sorcerer because without it he doesn't get the FnP from the Bike unit's banner.

The Problem with a Chaos bike army is that there is no way to make them troops like in the SM dex, and they are simply not killy enough. Sure you can make mini-deathstars but they don't put the hurt out like other death stars given there low number of attacks and non-power weapon attacks. Also they get expensive if you include a killy leader (biker lord or jugger/axe of blind fury lord. Finally, the bikes take the place of Heldrakes which is the best unit in the codex and one of the best units in the game.

Waaaghpower wrote:
Right.
I'm trying to create a sort of 'Indestructible' 2000 Point list that hits hard but emphasizes on being hard to kill... I'm thinking Typhus, a Nurgle Lord, a (completely unbiased) sorcerer, 120 Zonbies, 2 squads of 5 Plague Marines with 2 plasmaguns each, 2 Helldrakes, and the plague biker squad.
Does this seem good? Or is anything too expensive/not going to do its job properly?

All seems pretty nice until you run into an army with either poison, or MCs who don't care about your T6. 120 zombies would be pretty difficult to mess with though.

Pony_law wrote:
The Problem with a Chaos bike army is that there is no way to make them troops like in the SM dex, and they are simply not killy enough. Sure you can make mini-deathstars but they don't put the hurt out like other death stars given there low number of attacks and non-power weapon attacks. Also they get expensive if you include a killy leader (biker lord or jugger/axe of blind fury lord. Finally, the bikes take the place of Heldrakes which is the best unit in the codex and one of the best units in the game.

First let's get this straight; a Bike unit with Lord isn't automatically a death star, nobody is talking about running tonnes of Bikes here after all. And the OP certainly never said anything about a Bike army. I think you reading into things a little too much.

As for the idea that they don't putout enough hurt; in what universe? With twin-linked Relentless weapons they put out more dakka than many full death stars do, while also being much cheaper. Their utility is fantastic also, in that they are good in both shooting and combat, and they certainly don't have a low number of attacks as you have claimed, having 3 on the charge just like most decent CC units. Also your assertion that you need Power Weapons to be good in combat is silly, no offense. A clever 40k general tries to kill his enemies in two rounds of combat, not one, so as to avoid retaliatory fire. Lastly, one unit of Bikes still allows you two Heldrakes, and being perfectly honest 2 Heldrakes is better for a list than 3, as 3 make the list a little too RPS, where the opponent either can deal with all three, or can't deal with even one; that's just the way the unit happens to work in the current meta.

Let's look of the capabilities of such a unit. I'll use my own as an example, 6 Slaanesh Bikes with double Melta and a BBoS Sorcerer with Force Axe. Firing against Marines they can move up and fire, killing 1 on average off of the Melta, 2 more from the Brand when spaced out, and 1 more from Bolter fire. Then they charge. Hammer of Wrath will kill 1 Marine on average. 19 attack on the charge for regular boys, 9.5 hits, 4.25 wounds, another Marine dead. 4 Marines are unlikely to do damage. Sorcerer will have 4 attacks on the charge, killing about 2 more Marines on average. That leaves 2 Marines alive only. They likely break on Ld5, and are caught against I5, so they stay in combat. Next round they are kill and come the Chaos turn the Bikes are free to go again. That's exactly the sort of result you want from such a unit.

This is all IMO of course though, they certainly aren't a must have unit, but you are dismissing them far too easily, especially given how commonly they still appear in competitive lists.

though I wonder, why not plasma in this case? Being able to dance and single tap as a way of weakening things up first isn't too shabby, which the plasma helps with. Plus, a plasma gunner is still relentless, so he can still double tap and charge. If you're in 6" for melta, you're in 6" to charge in with a powerfist, or meltabombs, or a bunch of krak grenades, or something.


... I can't believe I just advocated for plasma over melta...

Plasma is good too. I just take Melta because Bikes can get it in half range really fast, it is good for ID, and if they pop a transport with it they can then charge the contents. I think for Bikes one is just as valid as the other.

In this edition, plasma is mostly better than melta. You don't need to worry to much about the extra die for pen because most people don't take that many tanks now. Just get up to Str 8 somewhere else and you'll be ok.

Do not take a mark on the sorc. This limits the powers you can take. On that note, do not take Biomancy. It looks really nice... then you roll a 4 and 6 and cry yourself to the loser's corner. Take telekenisis. Every power is useful, and then trade the least useful one out for shreak becuase you should always have it.

The most indestructable army is 210 zombies. I'd like to see soeone try to kill that. I don't even think guard can put out enough pie plates.

Bikes with a sorc is just fine. It works and the only reason more people don't run it is because bikes take up the spot that a Helldrak belongs in.

Get some cultists for troops and then take some good units (i.e. something not in the troops spot)

 Sothas wrote:
In this edition, plasma is mostly better than melta. You don't need to worry to much about the extra die for pen because most people don't take that many tanks now. Just get up to Str 8 somewhere else and you'll be ok.

The most indestructable army is 210 zombies. I'd like to see soeone try to kill that. I don't even think guard can put out enough pie plates.

Your meta must have fallen behind the current 6th edition meta as it is in most places then. Tanks have made a big enough come back ever since Heldrakes hit the scene, and in the new armies (particularly Eldar) some of the tanks are actually better than most of their troops. Wave Serpents and Sky Rays are the two biggest offenders here, though 65pt Whirlwinds are becoming very common place also. Also as I have already mentioned, Melta is as much about ID as it is AT.

As for 210 Zombies, are you joking, or do you really think it is the most indestructible army there is? Grey Knights (Dreadknights), Chaos Space Marines (Heldrakes), Eldar (Wave Serpents, Night Spinners, half of the other stuff in the army), Imperial Guard (yes they do have enough pie plates), Tau (Riptides); just to name a few. That's not to mention that having all of your scoring in slow and squishy units is not smart. People tried it when the Codex came out and it didn't work then which means it certainly won't work now with how much fire power armies have developed in the past few months.

 Ailaros wrote:
though I wonder, why not plasma in this case? Being able to dance and single tap as a way of weakening things up first isn't too shabby, which the plasma helps with. Plus, a plasma gunner is still relentless, so he can still double tap and charge. If you're in 6" for melta, you're in 6" to charge in with a powerfist, or meltabombs, or a bunch of krak grenades, or something.


... I can't believe I just advocated for plasma over melta...

on relentless FNP bikers it makes a stupid amount of sense.
you have FNP to mitigate the gets hot
you have relentless to allow you to charge afterwards if you like





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Pony_law wrote:
The Problem with a Chaos bike army is that there is no way to make them troops like in the SM dex, and they are simply not killy enough. Sure you can make mini-deathstars but they don't put the hurt out like other death stars given there low number of attacks and non-power weapon attacks. Also they get expensive if you include a killy leader (biker lord or jugger/axe of blind fury lord. Finally, the bikes take the place of Heldrakes which is the best unit in the codex and one of the best units in the game.

First let's get this straight; a Bike unit with Lord isn't automatically a death star, nobody is talking about running tonnes of Bikes here after all. And the OP certainly never said anything about a Bike army. I think you reading into things a little too much.

As for the idea that they don't putout enough hurt; in what universe? With twin-linked Relentless weapons they put out more dakka than many full death stars do, while also being much cheaper. Their utility is fantastic also, in that they are good in both shooting and combat, and they certainly don't have a low number of attacks as you have claimed, having 3 on the charge just like most decent CC units. Also your assertion that you need Power Weapons to be good in combat is silly, no offense. A clever 40k general tries to kill his enemies in two rounds of combat, not one, so as to avoid retaliatory fire. Lastly, one unit of Bikes still allows you two Heldrakes, and being perfectly honest 2 Heldrakes is better for a list than 3, as 3 make the list a little too RPS, where the opponent either can deal with all three, or can't deal with even one; that's just the way the unit happens to work in the current meta.

Exactly. A cheapish lord on a bike with 6-8 bikers sounds like a lot, but its around 400 points.
They are versitile and cheap. Not a deathstar. They arent nob bikers, but they dont cost the same as nob bikers either.
Charging in you are going to have 8 HoW attacks, 5-6 lord attacks, and 22 regular chump attacks. With VotLW, you can put out enough hits to go through a small unit of TH/SS(not counting the lord or champion upgrades, you should kill 3 before they get to strike).

I am personally a fan of MoS with the IoE. Comparable overall survivability with I5. But yea ML-3 sorcerer unmarked for invisibility.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Sothas wrote:
In this edition, plasma is mostly better than melta. You don't need to worry to much about the extra die for pen because most people don't take that many tanks now. Just get up to Str 8 somewhere else and you'll be ok.

The most indestructable army is 210 zombies. I'd like to see soeone try to kill that. I don't even think guard can put out enough pie plates.

Your meta must have fallen behind the current 6th edition meta as it is in most places then. Tanks have made a big enough come back ever since Heldrakes hit the scene, and in the new armies (particularly Eldar) some of the tanks are actually better than most of their troops. Wave Serpents and Sky Rays are the two biggest offenders here, though 65pt Whirlwinds are becoming very common place also. Also as I have already mentioned, Melta is as much about ID as it is AT.

As for 210 Zombies, are you joking, or do you really think it is the most indestructible army there is? Grey Knights (Dreadknights), Chaos Space Marines (Heldrakes), Eldar (Wave Serpents, Night Spinners, half of the other stuff in the army), Imperial Guard (yes they do have enough pie plates), Tau (Riptides); just to name a few. That's not to mention that having all of your scoring in slow and squishy units is not smart. People tried it when the Codex came out and it didn't work then which means it certainly won't work now with how much fire power armies have developed in the past few months.

Just as big of a threat to zombie hoards is psychic attack. One sorcerer with terrify will ruin all your troops. As they have no guns they can't overwatch. Then the champ has to accept the challenge, he gets squished and now you have to roll a 6 or be swept.

 hazal wrote:
I am personally a fan of MoS with the IoE. Comparable overall survivability with I5. But yea ML-3 sorcerer unmarked for invisibility.

Do you find it worth losing FnP on the Sorcerer for one more power roll though? I haven't tried it yet, but I've always felt more comfortable keeping the mark so that he would get FnP.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 hazal wrote:
I am personally a fan of MoS with the IoE. Comparable overall survivability with I5. But yea ML-3 sorcerer unmarked for invisibility.

Do you find it worth losing FnP on the Sorcerer for one more power roll though? I haven't tried it yet, but I've always felt more comfortable keeping the mark so that he would get FnP.

If your sorcerer is taking FNP rolls, it probably means that all his friends are dead and the icon is gone as well. At that point the mark is not going to help him at all.

bogalubov wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 hazal wrote:
I am personally a fan of MoS with the IoE. Comparable overall survivability with I5. But yea ML-3 sorcerer unmarked for invisibility.

Do you find it worth losing FnP on the Sorcerer for one more power roll though? I haven't tried it yet, but I've always felt more comfortable keeping the mark so that he would get FnP.

If your sorcerer is taking FNP rolls, it probably means that all his friends are dead and the icon is gone as well. At that point the mark is not going to help him at all.

Good point, strangely I've never thought about it that way, which is silly because of Slay the Warlord after all. Might be worth something after all, especially since I run him with an Axe.