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I hate random psychic powers because whenever i face a daemon player it takes an extra 10 minutes just to start a game.
That an it seems ridiculous to me that a master of some kind doesn't know what it is they've studied for years.

What are your opinions?

Everything about how WS works.

Not tied to this edition, but how transports swing back and forth. Each edition they are either required or crap. I mean, I get it. Point/dollar ratio, nothing beats a transport which means GW has to sell them to make the share holders happy.

But is the only way to do this to invalidate about 150 dollars of my army every other edition?

WS needs a 2+ and 6+ option. Elites should not be hitting only on 3+! Skarbrand should be skillfully knocking tau around!

On the whole, I've found 6th has less 'stupid' rules that previous, and fixed a lot of the issues, like highly trained marines just standing there and doing nothing while being charged by a mob of orks, or tanks effectively being no faster than infantry if they actually want to shoot something. I actually like the random powers as it forces you to adapt your strategy, rather than relying on a single power/combo from the start.

That said, the rules that do seem poor are how easily vehicles moving at high speed can be hit in CC, as although they are on the whole rather large, a guy with a slow, cumbersome power fist shouldn't be able to hit a moving tank 2/3 of the time. I also find the flier rules rather badly implemented, as supersonic aircraft should not be on the board for longer than a turn at most, or be able to be hit by small arms fire.

- Hitting vehicles on 3+ at least. Should vary a bit more depending on how fast the vehicle has moved.

- Placing Fortifications and then Terrain. Should be the other way round.

- Look Out Sir! should be restricted to 1-2 times per phase.

- Better variety of missions rather than just Objectives. Something like a Breakthrough or Meat Grinder missions from the 3rd/4th Ed rulebook would be better. The Battle Mission supplement didn't help at all, since 9/10 of the scenarios within the book are just Objective games with slightly different deployment zones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
- Also can't stand the stupid wording on Blast attacks, as the "unit takes a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit at least partially under the marker". This ruins the sense of realism in this part, as this means the wounds from a huge artillery strike can just take casualties from elsewhere in the unit. I imagine this was implemented to stop lists such as mass IG artillery-spam just sniping ICs and Characters but you already have Look Out Sir! for that, this is just...weird.

- No assault from stationary transports
- No assaults from outflankers/infiltrators.
- Losing if you have no units on the board at the end of the game turn


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Valkyrie wrote:

- Also can't stand the stupid wording on Blast attacks, as the "unit takes a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit at least partially under the marker". This ruins the sense of realism in this part, as this means the wounds from a huge artillery strike can just take casualties from elsewhere in the unit. I imagine this was implemented to stop lists such as mass IG artillery-spam just sniping ICs and Characters but you already have Look Out Sir! for that, this is just...weird.

Considering that most of their arty is barrage, they can still snipe if they don't scatter.

I wish they would return movement values. Space Marines of all varients, Imperial Guard, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tyranids, Orks, Necrons, SOB, Tau, Chaos and their demons. All of their infantry move Six inches. That just doesn't seem to make sense to me. Make units with a high initiative actually MOVE faster. Oh sure they have fleet, but having the base move be higher based upon your army would be interesting and add a lot to the game.

ATSKNF
It just makes half the game useless

The 50% Reserves limit. It's not like there were any truly broken army setups using full Reserves, drop pods and flyers can still do it, but all the other "fluffy" armies you could take using this are no longer possible (Descent of Angels, Deathwing Assault, daemonic incursion).

SWEEPING ADVANCE!!!

Oh look, My single space marine survived the attack by your mob, and killed one model. Oh you lost moral and are running, and I catch you... Now my SINGLE SPACE MARINE, Kills your entire mob! WTF!

As said before, no assaults from stationary transports seems rather silly.

And coming from a meta with a LOT of area terrain, +2 cover save for going to ground in area terrain. Nothing is more annoying than orks going to ground in the crater of their battlewagon and having a 3+ cover save. Or the guard blob going to ground in a forest with scatterfield and having a 2+ save on 20 guys. After that I had a newfound respect for my whirlwind.

The turn system.

Player A moves all their units, then shoots with everything, then assaults, while Player B does little but roll saving throws and yawn. Then they trade places.

Epic Armageddon did things much better with this approach:

Player A moves / shoots / assaults with a single unit

Player B moves / shoots / assaults with a single unit

Player A moves / shoots / assaults with a single unit

etc

That allowed for much better strategy as your try to predict and counter each move, kept both players engaged in the game and generally flows smoother.
It also vastly reduces the impact of a shooting-heavy army getting first turn and wiping out swathes of units before they're even used.

Ralis wrote:
SWEEPING ADVANCE!!!

Oh look, My single space marine survived the attack by your mob, and killed one model. Oh you lost moral and are running, and I catch you... Now my SINGLE SPACE MARINE, Kills your entire mob! WTF!

Yeah this rule is silly. I think it should be limited to a rule that says you can only kill as many models as you have in your unit when you perform a sweeping advance. So if you outnumber them, then yeah they get slaughtered. But it should be a 1-1 ration. Or just each model causes 1 wound even.

The vehicle rules, hull points and assault rules especially. There's a reason that aside from flyers, AV13 jinking Necron skimmers and jinking 3+/4+ cover save Eldar/Tau skimmers, vehicles are increasingly rare.

 Icculus wrote:

Ralis wrote:
SWEEPING ADVANCE!!!

Oh look, My single space marine survived the attack by your mob, and killed one model. Oh you lost moral and are running, and I catch you... Now my SINGLE SPACE MARINE, Kills your entire mob! WTF!

Yeah this rule is silly. I think it should be limited to a rule that says you can only kill as many models as you have in your unit when you perform a sweeping advance. So if you outnumber them, then yeah they get slaughtered. But it should be a 1-1 ration. Or just each model causes 1 wound even.

You think that is bad, you should have been around when sweeps/consolidates could contact new units.

Flier rules.
No assault from rhinos
Chaos always have to challenge.

Other than that, I actually really like this edition.

I dont mind the no assult from rhinos there has to be some benefit to having open topped.

I think WS should be looked at again, what i dont like is for a set of special rules to be in the BRB and then over the course of the edition and through power creep all (or at least a good number )of these are ignored by some ability or another.

Maybe im just a bitter DE player

 pretre wrote:

 Icculus wrote:

Ralis wrote:
SWEEPING ADVANCE!!!

Oh look, My single space marine survived the attack by your mob, and killed one model. Oh you lost moral and are running, and I catch you... Now my SINGLE SPACE MARINE, Kills your entire mob! WTF!

Yeah this rule is silly. I think it should be limited to a rule that says you can only kill as many models as you have in your unit when you perform a sweeping advance. So if you outnumber them, then yeah they get slaughtered. But it should be a 1-1 ration. Or just each model causes 1 wound even.

You think that is bad, you should have been around when sweeps/consolidates could contact new units.

Well that sounds terrible. glad I don't have to deal with that.

 Icculus wrote:

Pretre wrote:You think that is bad, you should have been around when sweeps/consolidates could contact new units.

Well that sounds terrible. glad I don't have to deal with that.

3rd edition: When Blood Angels ruled the galaxy. Rhino Rush, move forward with your turbo boosted rhinos, disembark, assault, kill whatever you assaulted, consolidate into the next one. Rinse. Repeat.

Revise the nerf on assault

cammy wrote:I dont mind the no assult from rhinos there has to be some benefit to having open topped.

I think WS should be looked at again, what i dont like is for a set of special rules to be in the BRB and then over the course of the edition and through power creep all (or at least a good number )of these are ignored by some ability or another.

Maybe im just a bitter DE player

For open-topped vehicles/assault, let them charge if the vehicle moved 6" or less, but regular vehicle occupants may charge if the vehicle was stationary.

Ralis wrote:SWEEPING ADVANCE!!!

Oh look, My single space marine survived the attack by your mob, and killed one model. Oh you lost moral and are running, and I catch you... Now my SINGLE SPACE MARINE, Kills your entire mob! WTF!

Yeah, on the sweep thing, until they take their foot off of the necks of assault armies, they really shouldn't touch sweeps as it's one of the few reasons left to run an assault unit in the first place.

 pretre wrote:

 Icculus wrote:

Pretre wrote:You think that is bad, you should have been around when sweeps/consolidates could contact new units.

Well that sounds terrible. glad I don't have to deal with that.

3rd edition: When Blood Angels ruled the galaxy. Rhino Rush, move forward with your turbo boosted rhinos, disembark, assault, kill whatever you assaulted, consolidate into the next one. Rinse. Repeat.

At least if they swept into a new unit you could shoot at them. If they consolidated into your unit they were safe for another turn

Blast Weapons.

When an opponent rolls the scatter dice on the other side of the board, and you clearly don't agree with the direction the arrow is pointing or how many models are underneath the template, it just becomes obnoxious. Then it happens several times a turn.

If blast weapons were something simple like D3 hits for small and D6 for large, the game would go much faster as no one would be arguing about template placement or spending extra time moving their models so that they are exactly 2" apart to prevent getting hit by templates. I find them amazingly tedious.

 Oaka wrote:
When an opponent rolls the scatter dice on the other side of the board, and you clearly don't agree with the direction the arrow is pointing or how many models are underneath the template, it just becomes obnoxious. Then it happens several times a turn.

If blast weapons were something simple like D3 hits for small and D6 for large, the game would go much faster as no one would be arguing about template placement or spending extra time moving their models so that they are exactly 2" apart to prevent getting hit by templates. I find them amazingly tedious.

Roll the scatter near the place where the template is. MAGIC!

 Valkyrie wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
- Also can't stand the stupid wording on Blast attacks, as the "unit takes a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit at least partially under the marker". This ruins the sense of realism in this part, as this means the wounds from a huge artillery strike can just take casualties from elsewhere in the unit. I imagine this was implemented to stop lists such as mass IG artillery-spam just sniping ICs and Characters but you already have Look Out Sir! for that, this is just...weird.

All the shooting rules are an abstraction. The blast marker does not represent the fall of a single shell but rather is an indication of how effective such artillery fire is on a widely or closely spaced unit. On this basis it doesn't matter where you take casualties from, provided there is a consistent method involved.

 Paradigm wrote:
On the whole, I've found 6th has less 'stupid' rules that previous, and fixed a lot of the issues, like highly trained marines just standing there and doing nothing while being charged by a mob of orks,

What I don't get is why people get their panties in a twist over this, but everyone is ok with "my army sits there and gets shot at because you roll first turn"

 Dakkamite wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
On the whole, I've found 6th has less 'stupid' rules that previous, and fixed a lot of the issues, like highly trained marines just standing there and doing nothing while being charged by a mob of orks,

What I don't get is why people get their panties in a twist over this, but everyone is ok with "my army sits there and gets shot at because you roll first turn"

The player turns are supposed to be simultaneous, so the marines aren't doing nothing, the previous shooting phase was them firing at the incoming mob.

The Chaos Daemons warpstorm table. It basically means I'm having to take Kairos every game in hopes I am not screwed over on turn one. Everyone tries to defend this by saying Chaos equates random, but that's not what the Chaos of 40k is. Chaos is anarchy and madness, the antithesis of order in the universe. Having my army lose 20% of it's units due to Khorne having issues does not represent the madness and destruction wrought by the daemons spilling into reality to slaughter everyone. It represents a writers poor understanding of the fluff, or a poor attempt to balance when it wasn't needed.

That and the removal of the plus one initiative of Furious Charge, the rules for Bloodcrushers and random wargear in Chaos Daemons.

 Flinty wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
On the whole, I've found 6th has less 'stupid' rules that previous, and fixed a lot of the issues, like highly trained marines just standing there and doing nothing while being charged by a mob of orks,

What I don't get is why people get their panties in a twist over this, but everyone is ok with "my army sits there and gets shot at because you roll first turn"

The player turns are supposed to be simultaneous, so the marines aren't doing nothing, the previous shooting phase was them firing at the incoming mob.

Yet GW fixes the one and leaves the parody of strategy that is first turn untouched.

Im a marines player and I think ATSKNF to some degree is stupid. It makes sense when compared to the fluff, but it eliminates a mechanic of the game that is huge for other armies.