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2013/08/23 19:17:19
Subject: Team Fluffy Bunnies Goes to the ATC - 2K Draigowing + Necrons (Game #1 on p.2)
Trekend wrote: I have to admit, I would have thought the SW teammate would fair better against Storm Ravens and CC henchies. Enough missiles can drop a SR pretty quickly. And the RP was the only psycher, right? But, then, I don't know much about Space Wolves so I can only make assumptions in that regard.
A word on pairing strategy: the goal behind our team's strategy was simply to avoid worst-case matchups; in this particular round, triple-GK ravens would have been an absolute nightmare for my Tyranids (it's almost impossible to scatter off of a Tervigon base), and had potential to be really bad for Bill's (psychic) FMC spam, as a single failed grounding test on a DP right before the Ravens fired could mean eating 6 automatic Perils hits. You can only control so much - the triple-raven list wasn't offered up as a Defender by our opponents, but was chosen to fight Jim, as we were carefully hiding Bill & I from exposure.
Basically, in any given round, both teams have pretty decent control over what at least 2 of their armies will have to face. This was one of their attacker forces; all we could do is avoid it with the stuff that would hurt most, rather than pair it specifically against what we would want to face it.
Are you sure he was the Attacker army? That actually would make more sense. His army was more of an Attacker army than a Defender army.
What I recall was that we were debating on who didn't want to go up against his army. I then offered myself up to take the challenge despite what his army could do to mine. That's why I thought I was the Attacker in this case. Also, if I was the defender, I most likely wouldn't have picked that terrain. It was open in the middle. Instead, I'd probably have picked a terran with a nice LOS-blocking terrain in the middle where I could hide Coteaz and my banner/Apothecary guy at the very least.
In any case, if I was the defender, then it was just my (un)luck that they put their GK player on me. But I guess that ended up good for the team because I was willing to get pounded on by his army for the sake of the team.
Trekend wrote: I have to admit, I would have thought the SW teammate would fair better against Storm Ravens and CC henchies. Enough missiles can drop a SR pretty quickly. And the RP was the only psycher, right? But, then, I don't know much about Space Wolves so I can only make assumptions in that regard.
And, in my experience, Mindstrikes aren't that great against someone who spreads out properly. In fact, I'd say that about most blast weapons without Barrage or something to make up for it. It's painful if they're on target, but I've rarely found the smaller blast template landing anywhere near where I want it to.
I also don't think people give enough credit to PsyDreads as anti-air. 4 twin-linked shots will typically lead to at least one strength 8 hit on a flyer.
Anyway, hope you did well against this guy. I always hate seeing so many armor 12 flyers on a list. Really annoying to deal with unless the dice are on your side.
I believe our SW player was already matched up before it came to this matchup (though I'm not 100% certain). In several of our matchups, Space Wolf Mike was our "Sacrificial" army, going 1st a couple of times.....though I was put up as a sacrificial army against one of our opponents.
But yeah, I had to make sure to spread out my paladinstar almost all game. I actually wasn't as concerned about a direct hit as I was about a scatter that could hit multiple models. At least I had a 1/3 chance of surviving a mindstrike hit thanks to my Apothecary.
I was definitely going to rely on my psydreads. However, my opponent out-numbered me with his shooting with 3 dreads of his own and PotMS shooting from his raven. If done properly, he could still shoot mindstrikes at my paladins while using his TL-MM on my vehicles.
BTW, his deathcults would do a number on any of the SW units as well. Buffed up by psychic powers, they are just plain nasty!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/08/25 00:34:12
Janthkin wrote: A word on pairing strategy: the goal behind our team's strategy was simply to avoid worst-case matchups; in this particular round, triple-GK ravens would have been an absolute nightmare for my Tyranids (it's almost impossible to scatter off of a Tervigon base), and had potential to be really bad for Bill's (psychic) FMC spam, as a single failed grounding test on a DP right before the Ravens fired could mean eating 6 automatic Perils hits. You can only control so much - the triple-raven list wasn't offered up as a Defender by our opponents, but was chosen to fight Jim, as we were carefully hiding Bill & I from exposure.
Basically, in any given round, both teams have pretty decent control over what at least 2 of their armies will have to face. This was one of their attacker forces; all we could do is avoid it with the stuff that would hurt most, rather than pair it specifically against what we would want to face it.
Bleh. I completely forgot to take into account how the opponents were actually picked. You're right. It'd be hard to get that specific match-up. Setting the guy up by handing him a full psycher army as (what he thinks) is an easy victory is a much better plan. My bad.
I believe our SW player was already matched up before it came to this matchup (though I'm not 100% certain). In several of our matchups, Space Wolf Mike was our "Sacrificial" army, going 1st a couple of times.....though I was put up as a sacrificial army against one of our opponents.
But yeah, I had to make sure to spread out my paladinstar almost all game. I actually wasn't as concerned about a direct hit as I was about a scatter that could hit multiple models. At least I had a 1/3 chance of surviving a mindstrike hit thanks to my Apothecary.
I was definitely going to rely on my psydreads. However, my opponent out-numbered me with his shooting with 3 dreads of his own and PotMS shooting from his raven. If done properly, he could still shoot mindstrikes at my paladins while using his TL-MM on my vehicles.
BTW, his deathcults would do a number on any of the SW units as well. Buffed up by psychic powers, they are just plain nasty!
I could see that SW army being good at taking on practically anything the opponent throws at it. Though that may be personal bias since my friend loves to run Cyclones on everything he can (and thus, they scare the hell out of me).
And I did forget that FnP isn't a save, so it can be used against perils. I imagine that saved a few Paladins.
While you're right about using PotMS to hit your Paladins while firing at your vehicles, I doubt you'd give him the opportunity without hitting him first with your own dreads (via LoS blocking terrain, or keeping them in reserve until his flyers were on the board). Besides, his dreads can deal with your dreads (as you pointed out). I think I'd rather use those MMs to try and ID some Pallies. But that might be because our local GK player has gotten me scared to death of those 55 point models :(
I'll take your word for it on the deathcult assassins. To be fair, I've never seen anyone use them, so I have no idea how they actually perform in battle. Here's hoping I get to see how they do in CC in this report
2013/08/23 23:21:19
Subject: Team Fluffy Bunnies Goes to the ATC - 2K Draigowing + Necrons (Game #1 on p.2)
jy2 wrote: Are you sure he was the Attacker army? That actually would make more sense. His army was more of an Attacker army than a Defender army.
What I recall was that we were debating on who didn't want to go up against his army. I then offered myself up to take the challenge despite what his army could do to mine. That's why I thought I was the Attacker in this case. Also, if I was the defender, I most likely wouldn't have picked that terrain. It was open in the middle. Instead, I'd probably have picked a terran with a nice LOS-blocking terrain in the middle where I could hide Coteaz and my banner/Apothecary guy at the very least.
In any case, if I was the defender, then it was just my (un)luck that they put their GK player on me. But I guess that ended up good for the team because I was willing to get pounded on by his army for the sake of the team.
I'm not sure. Looking at the pairings, it could have gone with you as defender in slot #3, but it may have been a "throw Jim on the grenade" moment in slot #4. All I'm certain of for this round was a) they attacked with their Orks (as if they'd defended with them, they would likely have been mine); b) neither Bill nor I were in one of the Defender slots; and c) the dual-Wraithknight/Dreadknight army & I were the leftovers in slot #5.
Next year, we should take notes on the pairing orders; it's a really interesting part of the game, but harder to reconstruct after the fact.
Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes?
2013/08/23 23:33:06
Subject: Team Fluffy Bunnies Goes to the ATC - 2K Draigowing + Necrons (Game #1 on p.2)
The thing about winning big is that you get paired up with another team that also won big. We got 150 last round, which I thought no one would even come close.....I was wrong. Our opponents going into this round was coming in with 149 Battle Points (BP's)! So they must be doing something right. Now I'm slightly fuzzy on who we or who they put up as Attacker/Defender, but I ended up going against their Team Captain, Casey and his very intimidating triple-raven pure GK list.
Our other matchups consisted of:
Kevin: Eldar w/Grey Knight allies (2 Crimson Hunters, 2 Wraithknights and 1 Dreadknight)
Bill: Tau w/Eldar allies (2 Riptides, Crisis Suits, Broadsides, WarWalkers)
Brandon: Orks (Ghazghkull, Mad Doc, 3x14 Lootas, lots of boys)
This is not going to be an easy matchup for me. Bill, Kevin and I didn't really wanted to play against 3 stormravens with 12 mindstrike missiles due to the psychic nature of our armies. Moreover, none of us could reliably take down 3 AV12 flyers. After discussing for a bit, I decided that I would be the one to jump on top of this grenade. I could be wrong, but I believe we put out Space Wolf Mike first as the sacrificial army and they accepted with their chaos FMC-spam player. I think that they then offered out their Team Captain's GK list and I took it (though from what Kevin is saying, it might have been the other way around). In any case, I'm sure Casey was happy to be matched up against me.
To put it mildly, Casey's army has the potential to really kick my a$$. He's got 12 mindstrike missiles which can be used to snipe out particular paladins. If I make the mistake of clumping up (i.e. especially after an assault where I consolidate poorly), his ravens can really hurt me. My only saving grace is that at least I get FNP against Perils of the Warp from his mindstrike missiles. The rest of his shooting can be quite deadly as well. TL-multi-meltas and psyfleman dreads can double-out my paladins and bypass my FNP (except for Draigo). He should also have no problems whatsoever against my flyers and armour. Multi-meltas on a flyer pretty much ensures that he can get within double-damage range of my vehicles whenever he wants, and psyflemans are great at knocking out my flyers and other psyflemans.
And then we have assault. You think paladins are deadly in assault? Wait til you try getting charged by 30 deathcult assassins (each with a power sword and power axe) + crusaders, especially when they'e buffed with Prescience, Rad grenades and Psykatroke grenades. Against my grey knights, my opponent has the added bonus of Psyk-out grenades from Coteaz, which will reduce my paladins to I1 when they get the charge off (and they will get the charge off unless I can miraculously shoot down all 3 of his ravens). I've actually seen this happen back in 5th Ed., but with only 20 deathcults against a full paladinstar and let me tell you, things did not end up well for the paladins as they lost combat, broke and ran off the table.
Lastly, I'm going to have problems dealing with his ravens. AV12 flyers are hard for anyone to shoot down, and my opponent will get the beta-strike with them, whether it be against my flyers or my dreadnoughts + annihilation barge. If my opponent plays it correctly, his ravens should take out my AT on the turn they come in and ignore my paladins, at least for 1 round. That would be how I would play his army. If he can do that, then he should easily take this game. With my AT gone, I will have no way to stop his flyers from taking/contesting the objectives. Yes, it's against RAW, but the ATC ruled it that flyers can take/contest objectives (measured horizontally from any part of the hull only) as long as they are scoring. Thus, any type of flyers that are scoring can take objectives, not just the heldrakes. Thus, my opponet has got 9 scoring units in this game!
For psychic powers, my Coteaz gets Prescience and Perfect Timing (Ignore cover).
Casey's Coteaz gets Prescience and Misfortune.
Warlord traits are pretty much useless.
I use Grand Strategy to make 1 of my dreads scoring.
Casey's deployment.
I'm pretty sure Casey played it wrong here. He deploys the 2 henchmen units, the strikers and Inquisitor only (4 units).
What he had in reserves:
Coteaz
3x Deathcult units
3x Stormravens
3x Dreadnoughts
If you take away the 3 ravens (because they must begin the game in reserves), he's got 7 units in reserves. That's more than half of his army in reserves, which is illegal.
However, he contended that a unit in a flyer didn't count towards the maximum reserves requirements. Thus all he had in reserves (that counted) was Coteaz and the 3 dreads.
I told him that was only the case if it was a unit with a dedicated transport. But I didn't want to start off the game with an argument so I just let him do it. I've already called the judge over once already to clarify the scoring flyer issue (which I was not aware of) and didn't want to do so a 2nd time before our game even started. To me, it was no biggie. Yeah, it makes it more challenging, however, it also means that when I shoot down his flyer, more guys are going to die.
EDIT -- After checking the FAQ's, I found out my opponent played it correctly.
His deployment from my perspective. I can't see anything!
My deployment.
On the board is Draigo, Coteaz, paladinstar, annihilation barge and the non-scoring dread (5 units). In reserves are my Overlord, soladin and my scoring dread (3 units). Doh!!! I messed up on my deployment! I wanted to reserve both dreads but miscounted on my reserves! #$%&*@^#!!!
Henchmen sits behind their Aegis and behind the LOS-blocking terrain, twiddling their thumbs.
NecroKnights 1
Spoiler:
Coteaz casts his powers. Grey knights move and then run up. Annihilation barge goes flat-out. Dreadnought hides.
Raven Knights 2
Spoiler:
More thumb twiddling by his henchmen.
This turn was actually amazing in that - with the help of the Comms Relay and Psychic Communion - all 6 of my opponent's units manages to stay in Reserves!!! What do I have to say about that? F*ck me, I'm screwed!!!
NecroKnights 2
Spoiler:
Coteaz perils while trying to cast 1 of his powers.
With Psychic Communion, I manage to keep my scoring dread and soladin out. However, both night scythes come in.
I go after his strikers/henchmen. My Overlord disembarks into terrain.
I then shoot at the unit of strikers and 3 henchmen. He goes-to-ground with both and passes every single 2+ cover save.
The rest of my army moves and runs. AB moves flat-out. Dread continues to hide.
Raven Knights 3
Spoiler:
ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!! All his reserves come in!
2 of his flyers go after 2 of my flyers. His 3rd raven goes after my AB.
All 3 dreads come in as well, 2 to the right and 1 to the left flank.
Ravens down 1 night scythe for First Blood and immobilizes the other one.
VP's - RavenKnights: 1, NecroKnights: 0
Multi-melta from his 3rd raven (via Power of the Machine Spirit) gets through my barge's 4+ cover and explodes it!
VP's - RavenKnights: 2, NecroKnights: 0
His psyfleman then blows away my immobilized night scythe.
VP's - RavenKnights: 3, NecroKnights: 0
Hurricane bolters manage to put 1W on Draigo.
Mindstrike missiles hit Coteaz twice! Fortunately, I make 1 of my FNP saves. I'm not sure how, but he kills my warding stave paladin. I believe it was from his psyfleman dread on the left flank.
Uh, oh....I was going to rely on my warding stave against assault from his deathcults. This could be bad....
Going 2nd, I was hoping to be able to get the beta-strike on my opponent. Instead, he got the beta-strike on me and it wasn't pretty. He just took out my 3 best anti-air units as well as 2 flying transports. And to add insult to injury, he took out my warding stave paladin which I needed to stay alive against his upcoming assault.
But not all is lost. He seems to have forgotten about my Overlord, who is in assault/contesting range of his guys on his Emperor's Will and 1 Crusade objective.
NecroKnights 3
Spoiler:
Both of my walking warrior squads comes in. I try to bring in my dread early with Psychic Communion (coming in on a 2+) but he refuses to come in. I keep my soladin out.
Coteaz casts his powers as usual (would do this every turn).
This is when my opponent remembers about my Overlord....when I get ready to assault his troops.
With Prescience and Perfect Timing, my paladins manage to pen his right raven and blow it up, giving me 2 VP's because it is a Fast Attack. Half of the unit dies in the explosion.
VP's - RavenKnights: 3, NecroKnights: 2
My dread doesn't do anything to the ravens.
Warriors then run up.
Paladins then charge the remaining deathcults....
....and wipe them out.
VP's - RavenKnights: 3, NecroKnights: 3
My Overlord makes the charge. Mindshackle passes but my opponent fails to wound himself. My Overlord then issues a challenge which his justicar declines. We both then whiff completely in combat.
Raven Knights 4
Spoiler:
Both ravens go into Hover mode so his deathcults could disembark. His Coteaz casts Prescience and the assassins get ready to engage the paladins.
Mindstrike missiles either miss or I make my FNP tests (or both). Draigo tanks the multi-meltas and I laugh off the hurricane psybolters. My opponent only manages to shoot down 1 paladin with his 2 ravens.
I believe PotMS shooting from 1 raven and a dread shoots down 2 warriors after I go-to-ground with them.
Lastly, his dreads take out my dread.
VP's - RavenKnights: 4, NecroKnights: 3
Both units of deathcults make the charge (though Coteaz's unit barely makes it). I kill off 1 crusader and the banisher with my Overwatch.
Check this out.
He gets almost 40 attacks at WS5 with S5 AP2 power axes. More than half of his attacks are re-rolling to hit due to Prescience. We both strike at I1 due to Psyk-out grenades from Coteaz.
Draigo then proceeds to tank 22 of those wounds (with the help of FNP from the Apothecary)!!! He takes 2W (down to 1W remaining) and I lose 1 paladin. In return, I kill off 5 deathcults from each unit and wipe out any crusaders that were still alive!
Both units of deathcults would then pass their Morale tests.
My Overlord once again whiffs and he remains locked in combat with the strikers.
NecroKnights 4
Spoiler:
My last dread finally comes in.
I try to deepstrike my soladin behind LOS-blocking terrain but he scatters out in the open.
Luck is on my side as my dread takes out another raven with a penetrating hit (though in all fairness, it was hovering).
VP's - RavenKnights: 4, NecroKnights: 5
Warriors move and then run for some cover.
In combat, my Overlord takes out 3 knights. However, they would pass Morale.
In combat, I kill some more deathcults. I wipe out the unit of assassins without Coteaz. I can't believe I am winning this battle!
VP's - RavenKnights: 4, NecroKnights: 6
Raven Knights 5
Spoiler:
His last raven goes after my scoring dreadnought.
My dread doesn't survive a multi-melta blast to the face.
VP's - RavenKnights: 5, NecroKnights: 6
It takes both dreads but they finally insta-gib my soladin.
VP's - RavenKnights: 6, NecroKnights: 6
In combat, I lose Draigo and 1 paladin, but I wipe out his band of assassins. I also get Slay the Warlord for killing his Coteaz.
VP's - RavenKnights: 7, NecroKnights: 8
Finally, my Overlor finishes off the strikers.
VP's - RavenKnights: 7, NecroKnights: 9
NecroKnights 5
Spoiler:
Paladinstar goes after the last raven. I fire but fail to take it out, only doing 1 HP of damage instead.
Warriors make it onto my Emperor's Will objective (the blue one) after running.
Overlord assaults and kills 2 henchmen from his Inquisitor's unit.
If the game is to end now, I will win with Crusade and Purge the Alien (Emperor's Will is contested).
We roll to see if the game continues and it does.
Raven Knights 6
Spoiler:
His raven goes into Hover mode in an attempt to wipe out my warriors.
Not only does Casey manage to take out my troops, but he also kills off Coteaz (I believe it was with a mindstrike missile) and gets Slay the Warlord as well.
VP's - RavenKnights: 9, NecroKnights: 9
However, my Overlord goes on to finish off the unit of henchmen and the Inquisitor as well.
VP's - RavenKnights: 9, NecroKnights: 11
NecroKnights 6
Spoiler:
Overview of what may very well be the last turn of the game. I've still got 3 psycannons left in my paladinstar.
I go for his raven.
I don't even need to assault as I blow it out of the sky with my psycannons.
VP's - RavenKnights: 9, NecroKnights: 13
The "Boss" assaults his last unit of henchmen and cleans house.
Holy Cats! This guy got my 4 VP's all by himself as well as Linebreaker and clearing 2 enemy objectives (Emperor's Will and 1 Crusade objective).
VP's - RavenKnights: 9, NecroKnights: 14
The game goes onto a final turn.
Raven Knights 7
Spoiler:
Psyflemans shoot down 1 paladin and try to get into position to take out my warriors, not that it matters.
NecroKnights 7
Spoiler:
I spread out on the objectives....
....and finish this game by shooting down his dread.
My opponent has no more scoring units left. I win all 3 mission objectives - Emperor's Will, Crusade and Purge the Alien. He gets First Blood, I get Linebreaker and we both get Warlord. My NecroKnights take it 27-3.
Complete Domination by the Draicronic Measures NecroKnights!!!
Wow...I'm still not 100% sure how I did it....but I did. Not only did I pull off a victory here, but I actually dominated, even after giving up First Blood and losing all 3 necron vehicles and without my 2nd dread coming in until Turn 4 (despite coming in on 2+ due to Psychic Communion). How did I do it?
1) I kind of took my opponent by surprise with my Overlord. I was able to do this partially because my opponent forgot about him and partially because my opponent used all his resources against my 3 necron vehicles. In any case, it was a perfect scenario for my Ovelord. He had 3 weak scoring units in really close range of both his Emperor's Will objective and 1 Crusade objective. Even had I not killed all 3 units, my Overlord was in easy contesting range of both of his objectives as well as being within Linebreaker range.
2) I gotta admit that luck was on my side. Initially, it was rough for me as my opponent couldn't fail a single save and he got his reserves in after mine (which was exactly what he wanted). He then killed 3 of my vehicles on his Turn 3 as I couldn't pass a single Jink save for all 3 of my flyers. But then my luck changed on my Turn 3. Now my opponent's dice wasn't bad. As a matter of fact, it was still quite good. However, mine was just better.
With the exception of 1 attempt at his raven, my shooting was golden. Despite losing both flyers and my AB, almost every vehicle I shot at, I killed. I either penned and I blew it up or I glanced it to death in just 1 volley. It did help that I had Perfect Timing on my paladins to negate any cover saves, but my shootin was just amazing.
And then there was that combat between my deathstar and his deathcults. The Turn 3 combat was a pivotal one. If I failed that combat, I would have most likely lost the game. With a 3++ save followed by 5+ FNP, 2 out of 9 Wounds should have gotten through Draigo. As for the paladins, 4 out of 9 Wounds should have gone through. Statistically, Draigo should die after 14W and the rest of the wounds would have gone onto my paladins. With 26 wounds inflicted, he should have killed off Draigo and about 2.5 paladins (or 5W to my paladins). Instead, Draigo lived and I only lost 1 paladin. I'd say I beat the odds in that battle.
I really didn't make any mistakes, other than to deploy my dread when I didn't have to. As for my opponent, the only real mistake I felt he did was to forget about my Overlord. Otherwise, we both played fairly well. I just had the better luck when I needed it most - the 2nd half of the game.
As for my MVP of the game, it's a tough call. Paladins took out 2 ravens, 1 dread and all 3 deathcult units. Draigo was a boss for tanking all those shots. My Overlord was phenomenal and single-handedly cleared my opponents backfield units. But IMO, I would give the MVP to my Apothecary. He saved so many guys, both from assault as well as from the Mindstrike missiles. Without the Apothecary, I am almost certain that I would have lost my paladins and my opponent would have ended up with control of the middle and most likely the game.
As for my teammates, Janthkin and I scored the highest for our team this round, both with 27-pts. Bill did well with 23-pts. As a sacrificial army, Mike surprised me when he managed to eke out a 17-13 victory against a 6 MC-spam Chaos army. Only Brandon lost in a controversial game where he was clearly dominating his ork opponent. He lost 14-16 but had the game continued for 1 more turn, he actually had a good chance to table his opponent.
Overall, our team ended up with a 108-42 win against a team that got 149 BP's the 1st round. As it turned out, we were still in a solid lead for 1st. Our opponents, Tag Team Uranus, would end their run as the 11th ranked team in the tournament.
This message was edited 13 times. Last update was at 2013/08/28 02:05:19
jy2 wrote: Yes, it's against RAW, but the ATC ruled it that flyers can take/contest objectives (measured horizontally from any part of the hull only) as long as they are scoring. Thus, any type of flyers that are scoring can take objectives, not just the heldrakes.
I see this come up quite a bit. I have never seen a rule that says Flyers cannot control Objectives in Scouring/BGNT. Generally it will be quite difficult as most objectives are on the ground and Flyers are never within 3" of the ground.
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
2013/08/25 00:46:53
Subject: Team Fluffy Bunnies Goes to the ATC - 2K Draigowing + Necrons (Game #1 on p.2)
Ah, OK. I thought the counter-RAW ruling was that Flyers could score. Thank you for clarifying.
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
2013/08/25 00:59:59
Subject: Team Fluffy Bunnies Goes to the ATC - 2K Draigowing + Necrons (Game #1 on p.2)
While you're right about using PotMS to hit your Paladins while firing at your vehicles, I doubt you'd give him the opportunity without hitting him first with your own dreads (via LoS blocking terrain, or keeping them in reserve until his flyers were on the board). Besides, his dreads can deal with your dreads (as you pointed out). I think I'd rather use those MMs to try and ID some Pallies. But that might be because our local GK player has gotten me scared to death of those 55 point models :(
I'll take your word for it on the deathcult assassins. To be fair, I've never seen anyone use them, so I have no idea how they actually perform in battle. Here's hoping I get to see how they do in CC in this report
Well, my opponent did get Misfortune for his Coteaz and normally in such a case, I would want my paladins within 12" of my dread for Reinforced Aegis (-4 on the enemy LD for psychic tests). If he angles it properly, he just might be able to do it with 1, maybe even 2 ravens.
My plan was to hold my dreads back in reserves until his ravens came in and then bring them in for the beta-strike. However, I messed up on my deployment, deploying 1 extra dread when I could have reserved him (miscounted my reserves).
But the real kicker here was this: with his Comms Relay and Psychic Communion, he actually managed to get his reserves in after my reserves came in! Thus, he was the one who ended up with the beta-strike on my units even though he went first!!!
As for the deathcults, it is precisely because they are so rare that most people under-estimate them. But I've had firsthand experience playing against them several times. That unit is cheap and super-killy. You want a unit gone in an instant? Just assault them with deathcults buffed by GK grenades. That unit can ruin almost any other unit's day in the blink of an eye.
jy2 wrote: Are you sure he was the Attacker army? That actually would make more sense. His army was more of an Attacker army than a Defender army.
What I recall was that we were debating on who didn't want to go up against his army. I then offered myself up to take the challenge despite what his army could do to mine. That's why I thought I was the Attacker in this case. Also, if I was the defender, I most likely wouldn't have picked that terrain. It was open in the middle. Instead, I'd probably have picked a terran with a nice LOS-blocking terrain in the middle where I could hide Coteaz and my banner/Apothecary guy at the very least.
In any case, if I was the defender, then it was just my (un)luck that they put their GK player on me. But I guess that ended up good for the team because I was willing to get pounded on by his army for the sake of the team.
I'm not sure. Looking at the pairings, it could have gone with you as defender in slot #3, but it may have been a "throw Jim on the grenade" moment in slot #4. All I'm certain of for this round was a) they attacked with their Orks (as if they'd defended with them, they would likely have been mine); b) neither Bill nor I were in one of the Defender slots; and c) the dual-Wraithknight/Dreadknight army & I were the leftovers in slot #5.
Next year, we should take notes on the pairing orders; it's a really interesting part of the game, but harder to reconstruct after the fact.
Yeah, I should have taken notes on the order of the pairings. It is actually rather quite fascinating and what makes the Team tournament so interesting.
Dozer Blades wrote: I'd rather have one easy round. My team had its work cut out every round. I am sure it will get a lot more interesting each round now.
Oh, were you there? Which was your team and what army did you bring?
Yeah, other than our 1st round opponent, all the teams we played against were really tough. The rest of our opponents ended up 11th, 5th, 4th, 3rd and 2nd in the tournament.
Reecius wrote: Well played, guys! Glad you kicked ass and represented for us here on the West Coast!
I am also glad we were able to get some of those Crons painted for you, Jim!
Thanks.
And good job on the models. They came out well.
@Thread
Guys, if you don't have time to paint your models and are looking to commission someone to do it, I'd recommend Reecius' company, Frontline Gaming. They do a great job at very reasonable prices. I use them for all my commission paint jobs. For more info, you can hit them up at:
Jy2, as to the Reserves question your opponent played it right.
Its not mentioned on pg124, in fact 124 leads you to believe that you would count those units seperately.
Pg36 offers an exclusion for any unit embarded upon a unit that must arrive via deepstrike.
The FAQ extended that exemption to flyers. So long as the units are embarked upon the SRs they do not count for the Reserves Calculation. So he had 4 units deployed and 4 units held in Reserve. Perfectly legal.
jy2 wrote: Yes, it's against RAW, but the ATC ruled it that flyers can take/contest objectives (measured horizontally from any part of the hull only) as long as they are scoring. Thus, any type of flyers that are scoring can take objectives, not just the heldrakes.
I see this come up quite a bit. I have never seen a rule that says Flyers cannot control Objectives in Scouring/BGNT. Generally it will be quite difficult as most objectives are on the ground and Flyers are never within 3" of the ground.
hyv3mynd wrote: The counter-raw ruling was that the measurement ignored the height component for measuring to flyers. Not the scoring aspect.
Effectively allowing some flyers with no hull point within 3" to the table to score objectives they never would be able to with normal RAW.
Sorry I wasn't more clear, but hyv3mynd got it right.
The ATC houserule is that you don't have to count the vertical measurement from the flyer to the objective, just the horizontal measurement.
I mentioned "if they were scoring" to differentiate the Scouring/BGNT flyers from the night scythes.
So that meant the stormraven had a huge body (possibly a 1-ft diameter) for contesting/claiming objectives.
tuiman wrote: Looking forward to game 2 and how you approach to fight off the ravens.
Good to see you playing draigowing again jy2
Thanks.
I felt that my wraithwing necrons would probably do better in this type of environment, but opted to go for Draigowing because I wanted to give my knights a chance in 6th Ed. competitive play.
Zagman wrote: Jy2, as to the Reserves question your opponent played it right.
Its not mentioned on pg124, in fact 124 leads you to believe that you would count those units seperately.
Pg36 offers an exclusion for any unit embarded upon a unit that must arrive via deepstrike.
The FAQ extended that exemption to flyers. So long as the units are embarked upon the SRs they do not count for the Reserves Calculation. So he had 4 units deployed and 4 units held in Reserve. Perfectly legal.
Enjoying the Batreps, keep them coming!
So I checked out the FAQ's:
Q: Do units that are transported in a vehicle that MUST start in
reserve count towards the number of units that can be placed in
Reserves? For example, must I count the units in a Drop Pod or
Valkyrie towards the 50% of units I can place in Reserves? (p124) A: No.
So yeah, my opponent was right and I was wrong.
Good find, Zagman.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/25 06:05:58
Ah man so far everything is going perfect for your opponent in game 2 , I have no idea how your going to pull threw. Can't wait to see what kind of damage your necron lord can do.
I have no idea what I'm doing...
Raginmund, Jarl of Sepp
2013/08/25 10:29:18
Subject: Team Fluffy Bunnies Goes to the ATC - 2K Draigowing + Necrons (Game #2 on p.3, Game Links on p.1)
Thanks jy2. I have my first ETC format tournament coming up in November. Thanks for your insights concerning match-up strategies and the like. My entire team consists of ETC Virgins, so while we expect to be pounded, we might now be pounded a little less.
2013/08/25 23:40:45
Subject: Re:Team Fluffy Bunnies Goes to the ATC - 2K Draigowing + Necrons (Game #2 on p.3, Game Links on p.1)
SkaredCast wrote: Just comes to show. Its not the list that wins you games. Well done against the ravens!
No it's not the list, its the dice. Jim made 22 of 24 3+ saves at a crucial time. The Ravens also didn't position to assault the Paladins away from Draigo. This is a case of lucky dice at the right time.
2013/08/26 01:55:03
Subject: Re:Team Fluffy Bunnies Goes to the ATC - 2K Draigowing + Necrons (Game #2 on p.3, Game Links on p.1)
Personally I would have had Coteaz issue a challenge to Draigo in that combat. Force the invulnerable saves onto the 4++/5++'s. A great job by you to pull that win off!
2013/08/26 02:28:14
Subject: Team Fluffy Bunnies Goes to the ATC - 2K Draigowing + Necrons (Game #2 on p.3, Game Links on p.1)
I wouldn't call it a totally dominating win rather than Draigp tanking all those wounds to sell himself for his boys. That said you played it right and won the game in the second half with a bad matchup. Very impressive win! : )
I think the mis-play was hovering the ravens too early and dropping down to assault. He played his reserves right and established air superiority, why not wait longer until all mind strikes are used for max attrition. The assassins had ap2 and crusaders had 3++, but they're still inferior to paladins and I think going right at them was just feeding kill points.
Well played. Goes to show how much a luck streak can swing a game. I wish I could experience something like that one day. My last 4 tourney's I've had the coldest dice ever, and it's so unbelievably frustrating.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2013/08/26 05:54:31
Subject: Team Fluffy Bunnies Goes to the ATC - 2K Draigowing + Necrons (Game #2 on p.3, Game Links on p.1)
Actually the dice were not that hot. He statistically should have averaged ~3.5 unsaved wounds. This probably would have been okay as he could have shifted 1 or 2 wounds off onto a paladin with little effect on the game. The paladins were crazy resilient. Draigo is just ridiculous for tanking wounds with EW, his 3++ and 5+ FnP from an apothecary.
2013/08/26 06:31:42
Subject: Team Fluffy Bunnies Goes to the ATC - 2K Draigowing + Necrons (Game #2 on p.3, Game Links on p.1)
VeteranSgt.Ryokai wrote: Ah man so far everything is going perfect for your opponent in game 2 , I have no idea how your going to pull threw. Can't wait to see what kind of damage your necron lord can do.
I'm happy to say that he (my Necron Overlord) did quite well this game.
LeadLegion wrote: Thanks jy2. I have my first ETC format tournament coming up in November. Thanks for your insights concerning match-up strategies and the like. My entire team consists of ETC Virgins, so while we expect to be pounded, we might now be pounded a little less.
You're welcome. Glad to have helped.
I really like this team format, which was one of the reasons why I chose to spend all that money to go. I hope that my reports will encourage more people to give it a try. If more people like it and go, then there will probably be more of these types of tournaments. That would be a good thing.
SkaredCast wrote: Just comes to show. Its not the list that wins you games. Well done against the ravens!
Thanks! And of course, it never hurts to have a little luck on your side.
SkaredCast wrote: Just comes to show. Its not the list that wins you games. Well done against the ravens!
No it's not the list, its the dice. Jim made 22 of 24 3+ saves at a crucial time. The Ravens also didn't position to assault the Paladins away from Draigo. This is a case of lucky dice at the right time.
Yeah, the dice definitely did play a part in my win. BTW, it wasn't just Draigo making saves. The Apothecary also played a large role in him tanking all those wounds.
Unfortunately, because he went after my scythes, that was the best he could do with his ravens. His other alternative would have been to continue flying and have both ravens go after my 1 dread or to fly off the board.
somerandomdude wrote: Personally I would have had Coteaz issue a challenge to Draigo in that combat. Force the invulnerable saves onto the 4++/5++'s. A great job by you to pull that win off!
Yeah, I would have done the same. However, initially, he couldn't because Coteaz was too far away (he had him in the rear of the unit) to issue he challenge. On the 2nd round of combat, he could have, but instead decided to use Coteaz to tank my non-hammer wounds. That actually turned out quite well for him as it probably saved 3-4 of his deathcults.
Dozer Blades wrote: I wouldn't call it a totally dominating win rather than Draigp tanking all those wounds to sell himself for his boys. That said you played it right and won the game in the second half with a bad matchup. Very impressive win! : )
Thanks.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
hyv3mynd wrote: I think the mis-play was hovering the ravens too early and dropping down to assault. He played his reserves right and established air superiority, why not wait longer until all mind strikes are used for max attrition. The assassins had ap2 and crusaders had 3++, but they're still inferior to paladins and I think going right at them was just feeding kill points.
Good job securing the win.
It's hard to say. In theory, I agree with you and would have tried to keep my birdies flying a little longer. However, had he done that in our game, because of the way his ravens were positioned and the restrictions to their movement while flying, he wouldn't have been able to go after my paladins. His only other course of action was to go after my 1 dread (if he was still alive) or to fly off the board. If he had gone after the dread, then he risked my paladins shooting down his birdie (with Prescience and Perfect Timing) and then losing a lot of his guys in the explosion. Thus, he opted to go after my paladins with everything instead. It's a tough call and he did what he thought was best at the time.
djones520 wrote: Well played. Goes to show how much a luck streak can swing a game. I wish I could experience something like that one day. My last 4 tourney's I've had the coldest dice ever, and it's so unbelievably frustrating.
In my last tournament, I had horrible luck (and my opponent great luck) and lost a game I could have won. This is karma.
Though I've still got 4 games to go.....
ansacs wrote: Actually the dice were not that hot. He statistically should have averaged ~3.5 unsaved wounds. This probably would have been okay as he could have shifted 1 or 2 wounds off onto a paladin with little effect on the game. The paladins were crazy resilient. Draigo is just ridiculous for tanking wounds with EW, his 3++ and 5+ FnP from an apothecary.
Dice was definitely above-average, though I would say my play was solid as well. If you don't get your units in the right positions to make the right plays at the right times and with the right target priorities, then even with good dice, you can still lose. However, a combination of both good play and good dice is hard to beat.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/08/26 06:46:32
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
#$%&*@^#!!!
What do I have to say about that? F*ck me, I'm screwed!!!
, I have no idea how your going to pull threw. Can't wait to see what kind of damage your necron lord can do. 
I have no idea what I'm doing...
Raginmund, Jarl of Sepp 
