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2013/09/04 13:57:39
Subject: Re:Hundreds (allegedly) dead in Syrian chemical weapons attack
Turkish security forces found a 2kg cylinder with sarin gas after searching the homes of Syrian militants from the Al-Qaeda linked Al-Nusra Front who were previously detained, Turkish media reports. The gas was reportedly going to be used in a bomb.
The sarin gas was found in the homes of suspected Syrian Islamists detained in the southern provinces of Adana and Mersia following a search by Turkish police on Wednesday, reports say. The gas was allegedly going to be used to carry out an attack in the southern Turkish city of Adana.
On Monday, Turkish special anti-terror forces arrested 12 suspected members of the Al-Nusra Front, the Al-Qaeda affiliated group which has been dubbed “the most aggressive and successful arm” of the Syrian rebels. The group was designated a terrorist organization by the United States in December.
Police also reportedly found a cache of weapons, documents and digital data which will be reviewed by police.
Following the searches, five of those detained were released following medical examinations at the Forensic Medicine Institution Adana. Seven suspects remain in custody. Turkish authorities are yet to comment on the arrests.
In a separate incident in Adana, police reportedly received intelligence that an explosive-laden vehicle had entered the town of Adana on Thursday, the Taraf daily reports.
Ankara has attempted to bolster the Syrian opposition without becoming embroiled in the Syrian civil war, a policy which Damascus claims lead to the deadliest act of terrorism on Turkish soil.
On May 11, 51 people were killed and 140 injured after two car bombs exploded in the Turkish town of Reyhanlı, located near the country’s border with Syria.A dozen Turkish nationals have been charged in the twin bombings, and Ankara has accused Damascus of helping the suspects carry out the attack.
“This incident was carried out by an organization which is in close contact to pro-regime groups in Syria and I say this very clearly, with the Syrian Mukhabarat [intelligence agency],” Interior Minister Muammer Guler said.
Syria’s Information Minister Omran Zoubi denied any link the attack, saying his country “did not commit and would never commit such an act because our values would not allow that”.Zoubi further charged the Turkish government had facilitated the flow of arms, explosives, funds and fighters across the country’s border into Syria, claiming that that Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his party bear direct responsibility [for the attack].”
Reports of chemical weapons use by both Damascus and the Syrian opposition have surrounded the conflict in Syria for months.
Yep. Clearly should be getting involved here. We just have to help those poor rebels!
If true then that is pretty compelling evidence that we should stay as far away from intervention in Syria as we can. Better to limit our response to humanitarian supplies.
2013/09/04 14:05:02
Subject: Re:Hundreds (allegedly) dead in Syrian chemical weapons attack
If true then that is pretty compelling evidence that we should stay as far away from intervention in Syria as we can. Better to limit our response to humanitarian supplies.
The flipside is that if true the question is where did this group get sarin gas from.
We're not talking about a homebrew "Syrian Liberation Group"--we're talking about Syrians with ties to Al-Qaeda and their Al-Nusra Front.
A place like Syria with constant warfare leaves an opportunity for groups like that to get their hands on chemical weapons for attacks elsewhere...which is y'know, not a good thing.
2013/09/04 14:13:39
Subject: Re:Hundreds (allegedly) dead in Syrian chemical weapons attack
If true then that is pretty compelling evidence that we should stay as far away from intervention in Syria as we can. Better to limit our response to humanitarian supplies.
The flipside is that if true the question is where did this group get sarin gas from.
A very good question. All the more reason to focus our intelligence efforts on keeping track of groups like this, or the stockpiles of chemical weapons, rather than get distracted with someone else's civil war.
Kanluwen wrote: We're not talking about a homebrew "Syrian Liberation Group"--we're talking about Syrians with ties to Al-Qaeda and their Al-Nusra Front.
I am well aware of that, and have repeatedly stated the link between the two groups throughout this thread.
Kanluwen wrote: A place like Syria with constant warfare leaves an opportunity for groups like that to get their hands on chemical weapons for attacks elsewhere...which is y'know, not a good thing.
Do you have a solution for this that you'd like to share?
2013/09/04 14:25:13
Subject: Hundreds (allegedly) dead in Syrian chemical weapons attack
The solution sure as hell isn't "limiting our response to humanitarian supplies".
I'm not going to play armchair general and say "This, this, or this should be done". Especially not because you seem to always be looking for some way to have a disagreement about everything.
2013/09/04 14:45:30
Subject: Hundreds (allegedly) dead in Syrian chemical weapons attack
Kanluwen wrote: The solution sure as hell isn't "limiting our response to humanitarian supplies".
I'm not going to play armchair general and say "This, this, or this should be done". Especially not because you seem to always be looking for some way to have a disagreement about everything.
Sorry you feel that way. I've agreed with many others on this site who's views I don't always agree with, I'll even joke about it.
I was looking for a genuine, well thought out opinion in favour of intervention. Seems that you're in favour of doing something without any idea what that something is, or what the consequences of that are. You'd rather distract and try to make it personal instead.
Still, if you feel that strongly about my supposed posting habits feel free to click the big 'Ignore' button
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/04 14:46:29
2013/09/04 14:47:07
Subject: Hundreds (allegedly) dead in Syrian chemical weapons attack
That has not been my experience in dealing with you.
Like I said though, I'm not going to play armchair general. The military community and intelligence services are going to have more information that is going to play to whatever they decide to do.
2013/09/04 14:56:41
Subject: Hundreds (allegedly) dead in Syrian chemical weapons attack
Kanluwen wrote: That has not been my experience in dealing with you.
So your interactions with one poster means that person is "always be looking for some way to have a disagreement about everything". Seems a reasonable and proportionate response. Here's a little secret, not everyone will agree on everything. Especially when people have different viewpoints. That doesn't mean that someone is a always looking for a disagreement.
I like hearing other opinions. I like having my viewpoint challenged. It broadens my understanding. It exposes me to things that I may not have considered, or another way of looking at things. It's just another tool for learning.
Kanluwen wrote: The military community and intelligence services are going to have more information that is going to play to whatever they decide to do
Except they don't get to make the call. POTUS does in the event that Congress gives backing, the military has provided options on what may be best.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/04 15:02:05
2013/09/04 15:24:35
Subject: Hundreds (allegedly) dead in Syrian chemical weapons attack
Kanluwen wrote: That has not been my experience in dealing with you.
So your interactions with one poster means that person is "always be looking for some way to have a disagreement about everything". Seems a reasonable and proportionate response. Here's a little secret, not everyone will agree on everything. Especially when people have different viewpoints. That doesn't mean that someone is a always looking for a disagreement.
I like hearing other opinions. I like having my viewpoint challenged. It broadens my understanding. It exposes me to things that I may not have considered, or another way of looking at things. It's just another tool for learning.
When you continually challenge someone who lives in a state on the laws of that state, it brings this statement into question. Especially when you continually bring up situations that completely do not apply to the situation at hand.
I am quite aware that "not everyone will agree on everything". However when you continually take a stance that smacks of simple "I don't agree with you because <insert party line here>", you are going to come across as "always looking for a disagreement".
Kanluwen wrote: The military community and intelligence services are going to have more information that is going to play to whatever they decide to do
Except they don't get to make the call. POTUS does in the event that Congress gives backing, the military has provided options on what may be best.
So what you're saying is that the POTUS is presented options by the organizations that I make an explicit mention of as "having more information that is going to play to whatever they decide to do".
2013/09/04 15:45:25
Subject: Re:Hundreds (allegedly) dead in Syrian chemical weapons attack
Kanluwen wrote: A place like Syria with constant warfare leaves an opportunity for groups like that to get their hands on chemical weapons for attacks elsewhere...which is y'know, not a good thing.
Do you have a solution for this that you'd like to share?
It is really the only way to be sure.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2013/09/04 15:54:36
Subject: Re:Hundreds (allegedly) dead in Syrian chemical weapons attack
Kanluwen wrote: That has not been my experience in dealing with you.
Like I said though, I'm not going to play armchair general. The military community and intelligence services are going to have more information that is going to play to whatever they decide to do.
Do you know what "the mission" is going to be?
For the life of me, I'm not hearing anything... and if it can't be explained in one sentence... then, it's going to be a clusterfark.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2013/09/04 15:58:12
Subject: Hundreds (allegedly) dead in Syrian chemical weapons attack
Kanluwen wrote: That has not been my experience in dealing with you.
Like I said though, I'm not going to play armchair general. The military community and intelligence services are going to have more information that is going to play to whatever they decide to do.
Do you know what "the mission" is going to be?
For the life of me, I'm not hearing anything... and if it can't be explained in one sentence... then, it's going to be a clusterfark.
Its called "Mission CYA" or alternatively "Operation Salad Spinner of " (kudos to Veep for that).
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2013/09/04 16:08:20
Subject: Re:Hundreds (allegedly) dead in Syrian chemical weapons attack
“We have been very clear to the Assad regime, but also to other players on the ground, that a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilized,” the president said. “That would change my calculus. That would change my equation.”
Can I channel my inner Code Pink?
President Obama lied. Syrian kids have died.
Now I'm in the camp of NOT doing anything... again, what's the mission?
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2013/09/04 16:09:57
Subject: Hundreds (allegedly) dead in Syrian chemical weapons attack
Look at the post above yours, there's the mission.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2013/09/04 16:50:22
Subject: Hundreds (allegedly) dead in Syrian chemical weapons attack
So, Obama, care to explain who else drew a red line?
In other news, Politicians are blatantly lying to us. Business as usual, move on...
See, you're trying to use people logic. DM uses Mandelogic, which we've established has 2+2=quack. - Aerethan
Putin.....would make a Vulcan Intelligence officer cry. - Jihadin
AFAIK, there is only one world, and it is the real world. - Iron_Captain
DakkaRank Comment: I sound like a Power Ranger.
TFOL and proud. Also a Forge World Fan.
I should really paint some of my models instead of browsing forums.
2013/09/04 17:04:58
Subject: Hundreds (allegedly) dead in Syrian chemical weapons attack
-Shrike- wrote: So, Obama, care to explain who else drew a red line?
In other news, Politicians are blatantly lying to us. Business as usual, move on...
yup, I am much more conerned about the terrorists/anti democratic forces in the white house* (both obamas and bushs) and the harm they are doing.
gotta clean up at home before we start trying to clean up the world.
*not limited to US, canada, europe, et all are also a hair away from facism.
lets liberate ourselves before we go messing with other peoples business.
Well, I wasn't saying they're fascists, but I just don't trust anything a politician says will happen. Red line? Sure...
See, you're trying to use people logic. DM uses Mandelogic, which we've established has 2+2=quack. - Aerethan
Putin.....would make a Vulcan Intelligence officer cry. - Jihadin
AFAIK, there is only one world, and it is the real world. - Iron_Captain
DakkaRank Comment: I sound like a Power Ranger.
TFOL and proud. Also a Forge World Fan.
I should really paint some of my models instead of browsing forums.
2013/09/04 19:56:57
Subject: Re:Hundreds (allegedly) dead in Syrian chemical weapons attack
The Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Wednesday approved a resolution authorizing a U.S. military response to chemical weapons use by Syria, sending the measure to the full chamber for debate next week. The vote was 10 to 7.
The Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Wednesday approved a resolution authorizing a U.S. military response to chemical weapons use by Syria, sending the measure to the full chamber for debate next week. The vote was 10 to 7.
O'snapple. We're going to launch a couple Cruise missiles!!!
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
The Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Wednesday approved a resolution authorizing a U.S. military response to chemical weapons use by Syria, sending the measure to the full chamber for debate next week. The vote was 10 to 7.
O'snapple. We're going to launch a couple Cruise missiles!!!
Crud... I just hope we get a concise mission soon...
Congress should not be asked to approve a “plan” or a military “strategy”... that is, Congress shouldn't appear (nor really it's in their purview) to mico-manage such military operation. That falls to the President, and thePresident alone as Commander-in-Chief.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2013/09/04 20:24:00
Subject: Hundreds (allegedly) dead in Syrian chemical weapons attack
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2013/09/04 21:01:26
Subject: Re:Hundreds (allegedly) dead in Syrian chemical weapons attack
Kanluwen wrote: A place like Syria with constant warfare leaves an opportunity for groups like that to get their hands on chemical weapons for attacks elsewhere...which is y'know, not a good thing.
Do you have a solution for this that you'd like to share?
I have some suggestions.
Take out the House of Saud and also break up the Wahabiists. Then follow the money trail to the terrorists themselves and take them out.
Redraw the national borders in the middle east to better fit with the ethnic groups there instead of Churchill's ruler and pencil empire.
Create a Kurdistan.
Kick all the Israelis out of Arab territory and require Israel to compensate Palestinian families that lost land and other resources when that state was formed.
Put a global ban on the production of sarin gas and similar products. Sarin was also used in the Tokyo subway attack back in 1995 so it's not like terrorists can't get their hands on it.
2013/09/04 22:26:18
Subject: Re:Hundreds (allegedly) dead in Syrian chemical weapons attack
Kanluwen wrote: A place like Syria with constant warfare leaves an opportunity for groups like that to get their hands on chemical weapons for attacks elsewhere...which is y'know, not a good thing.
Do you have a solution for this that you'd like to share?
I have some suggestions.
Uh oh.
Take out the House of Saud and also break up the Wahabiists. Then follow the money trail to the terrorists themselves and take them out.
Alright let's get starter. There is no "the terrorists". There are a lot of different groups with different goals and different ideologies who have different targets and different reasons for fighting, not to mention different locations. The only thing uniting them is a few books.
Redraw the national borders in the middle east to better fit with the ethnic groups there instead of Churchill's ruler and pencil empire.
And how will the current national leaders feel about that? Are they just supposed to go along with it? Have a nice war.
Create a Kurdistan.
Have a nice war.
Kick all the Israelis out of Arab territory and require Israel to compensate Palestinian families that lost land and other resources when that state was formed.
There is so much wrong with this I don't even know where to begin. Have a nice war.
Put a global ban on the production of sarin gas and similar products. Sarin was also used in the Tokyo subway attack back in 1995 so it's not like terrorists can't get their hands on it.
That'll work. So we're going to invade everyone who we think is making the gas?
Or are we going to politely ask them to stop?
2013/09/04 22:43:56
Subject: Re:Hundreds (allegedly) dead in Syrian chemical weapons attack
Alright let's get starter. There is no "the terrorists". There are a lot of different groups with different goals and different ideologies who have different targets and different reasons for fighting, not to mention different locations. The only thing uniting them is a few books.
So Al Qaeda, Al Nusra, Jemaah Islamiyah don't exist huh? I wasn't refering specifically to the anti-Baathists but islamic terrorists around the world and those who back them and Saudi Arabia constantly appears in that regard.
Redraw the national borders in the middle east to better fit with the ethnic groups there instead of Churchill's ruler and pencil empire.
And how will the current national leaders feel about that? Are they just supposed to go along with it? Have a nice war.
What, leaders like Saddam Hussein and Bashir Assad? Or further afield with Mubarak?
How about the forced separation of Kosovo by NATO forces or Ossetia by Russia? Hardly a new concept.
Create a Kurdistan.
Have a nice war.
Yup, because endless uprisings and attacks across the region are preferable to allowing a distinct ethnic group to have their own country.
Kick all the Israelis out of Arab territory and require Israel to compensate Palestinian families that lost land and other resources when that state was formed.
There is so much wrong with this I don't even know where to begin.
Choose one point if there are so many to choose from. That is if you actually know what you're talking about..
Put a global ban on the production of sarin gas and similar products. Sarin was also used in the Tokyo subway attack back in 1995 so it's not like terrorists can't get their hands on it.
That'll work. So we're going to invade everyone who we think is making the gas?
Why do you think that the US military is some kind of international police force that has to invade countries to get anything done? Are you really opposed to stopping the production of sarin gas?
2013/09/04 23:19:50
Subject: Hundreds (allegedly) dead in Syrian chemical weapons attack
pities2004 wrote: The whole 90 day no boots on the ground will be irrelevant once Syria retaliates.
It is irrelevant as soon as the congress critters authorize the use of force. Once they authorize the use of force (their constitutional responsibility) the executive branch directs the use of force as it sees fit (the executive branch's constitutional responsibility). Congress really can't win the fight on how the executive chooses to apply force once they authorize it. Best case is they can quit funding military action they do not like, but there is zero chance the congress critters would actually do that and risk 'not funding the troops'.
Jake
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2013/09/04 23:23:13
Subject: Hundreds (allegedly) dead in Syrian chemical weapons attack