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In my group if we are unsure whether or not a dice is cocked we gently place a second dice on top. If it stays, it's legal.

 Happyjew wrote:
In my group if we are unsure whether or not a dice is cocked we gently place a second dice on top. If it stays, it's legal.

SAME

We have a fair amount of new players to the game who forget things all the time so it's hard to not cheat some times!

A couple of times I will deliberately not remind the guy's of things so they realize them selves after the game, I think it helps to make the rule stick with them if they remember it themselves and feel cheated after wards lol.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Not sure if this is mentioned before, but I've seen a few occasions before where my opponent will try to re-roll bad results, claiming that the dice is cocked due to it resting on something tiny like a piece of basing gravel on the board. Dice wedged between two board sections, yes that's cocked. Dice touching a model's base with one side raised about 1-2mm off the ground? No, it's not cocked, deal with it ¬¬

Easiest way to tell if a die is cocked:

Carefully place another die on top of it, if the die falls off it is cocked.

Edit: Didn't see the 3rd page

My GK friend is pretty unreal about cover and weapon rules. FMC in area terrain? Doesn't make sense, no cover save. Orbital bombardment doesn't have Barrage? Yeah it does, don't worry it's not in there because the GK Codex is so old. Remove models from the front? No, I get to allocate wounds myself.

Ugh. Our 1750 point games end up being about 3.5 hours long due to me explaining 6th edition to him again.

 Happyjew wrote:
In my group if we are unsure whether or not a dice is cocked we gently place a second dice on top. If it stays, it's legal.

I find it much easier to just go by whether or not the die is sitting flat... But whatever floats your boat, I guess.

 Savagecoyote wrote:
While its not "cheating" one of the guys at our local FGS refuses to fight any army that is "unrealistic" !!!!! These have so far included , Any army with a flyer , any all bike armies , any army with a mix of tank and infantry ,any army that is just tanks and any Apocalypse games . If he finds himself playing any of these armies he packs his army away (and since he never played he never lost )

I guess he'd might as well not play at all if he doesn't want to play against unrealistic armies like space elves, space orks, space super soldiers, robot zombies, techno fish people, Alien ripoffs, or interdimensional nightmarish creatures. That leaves Imperial Guard on foot then...guess he really isn't playing.

I dont get why people, when the accidently drop a dice, wait for the result and then pick it up again to actually 'roll' it, when it bounced a few times already...

Dragonzord wrote:
I dont get why people, when the accidently drop a dice, wait for the result and then pick it up again to actually 'roll' it, when it bounced a few times already...

For consistency. If you always pick up dropped dice there's no worrying about whether you're picking it up because you don't want to mis-count or because it came up with a number you don't like. And since most methods of cheating by "rolling" a die involve dropping it so that it doesn't roll sufficiently it also makes it clear that you aren't trying to do that.

Of course I usually grab for the die before it finishes rolling, if someone always waits to see what the result is and only picks up "bad" dropped dice they're cheating and you shouldn't play against them.

I guess i should had the same friend used to have a wooden cigar size box he would roll dice in at chest height to "stop them from going all over the table" He also tried creating his own hq by using the stats of one, and special rules from others. We did harass the heck out of him for these practices. He then tried using a phone app to roll his dice which the group shot down. So i guess we have stopped him from some things but now that i think about it the list has grown pretty long.

I had a guy using a dice app to roll in a Rogue Trader/Dark Heresy game. Worst part was is he would tap away at his phone the entire time and was actually texting the GM all this shady stuff he was trying to pull behind the groups back, because I'm evil ninjaz lolz, and such. I don't think I could honestly tolerate that in a game again since it's so easy to accidentally hit the roll again function. I tried it once and would always announce it and have someone witness my roll, hoping he would catch on. Never happened.

1. The player who rolls the dice, and grabs it quickly before you get a chance to see the "successful armor save" that he just made again.

2. Measuring front to back is sometimes disturbingly common

3. Modeling for advantage

4. The guy who changes his list mysteriously. I once faced a guard player who agreed to a pick up game with me. He had only previously seen me plaing Nids. What he didn't know that I had instead brought my marines. It was just a pick up game so I was a little bit surprised to see the huge number of flamers that he had fielded. Later on he told me how they were actually melta guns.. I still stomped a mud hole in him but from that point on I was sure he had tailored his list after the fact in an effort to beat me.

Predetermining abilities before a game begins seems to be a prevalent cheating practice according to the responses in this thread. I guess a lot of players want to pick their abilities rather than being 'cinematic'?

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I had a guy using a dice app to roll in a Rogue Trader/Dark Heresy game. Worst part was is he would tap away at his phone the entire time and was actually texting the GM all this shady stuff he was trying to pull behind the groups back, because I'm evil ninjaz lolz, and such. I don't think I could honestly tolerate that in a game again since it's so easy to accidentally hit the roll again function. I tried it once and would always announce it and have someone witness my roll, hoping he would catch on. Never happened.

Nothing wrong with a bit of shady dealings in an rpg game, makes it easier then having to pull him away and talk with him later or pass sticky notes across the table.

It was with a very inexperienced group and he was constantly doing shady things the entire time that was more just for his own enjoyment than actually playing the game with the team. And when I mean constantly, I mean constantly. Every other minute he was texting the GM and going over in secret what he was trying to do, it's like he didn't want to play with the group.
For example I was playing a Kroot and he was playing some super psyker ninja assassin using a lot of broken rule interpretations we tried to explain to him were wrong and his goal was to become a grey knight. So while wandering through what's basically a sewer filled with acid he threw a psychic flashbang right in my character's face in the hopes he'd fall of the small ledge we were on and fall into the sewer. Ironically though I had thermal vision on and didn't notice the flash while he blinded the rest of the party and they all almost died.
He did that kind of stuff constantly and was actively working against the team even though the GM told him not to.

 insaniak wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
In my group if we are unsure whether or not a dice is cocked we gently place a second dice on top. If it stays, it's legal.

I find it much easier to just go by whether or not the die is sitting flat... But whatever floats your boat, I guess.

For me this is part of my pregame discussion. Basically, I state up front that anything that does not land flat on a level surface is not a valid roll and if I accidentally drop a dice, I make a point to state that the roll is not valid while the dice is still in the air. I hate to say it, but cheating in 40k has been so common place over the last few years that I have gone to great lengths to be as transparent about everything I do so as not to even invite the perception that shenanigans have taken place. As it is, I am getting so old and been through so many editions, that I goof up rules and stats more than I care to admit anyhow, so I try to be extra careful. Anyhow, if its not flat on level surface, just reroll it and move on. Waiting to see if you like the roll and asking the opponent if it counts sounds to me more like "Is it ok if I cheat here?".

Funny story about that, apparently there was an incident involving to well known personalities at GE Pasadena where a dice landed flat on one of those super thin blast templates and the other player demanded a reroll because this counted as "cocked" and even called the organizer over to argue it. Sadly, this was not a surprising turn of events for those familiar with the parties involved...

Tactical_Genius wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
In my group if we are unsure whether or not a dice is cocked we gently place a second dice on top. If it stays, it's legal.

SAME

We do this as well, though, tbh, I don't see the point. Never once have I seen a die passed the "second die on top test".

The common (I say common, cheating is rare in my group thankfully, but if cheating occurs it's this) one in our group is moving too far. Picking up dice quickly occasionally happens. And occasionally people write lists that are over points. I was quite disappointed the other day: One of my best gaming buddies brought over 1000 points to a 750 pick-up game of 40k we had the other day. He managed to squeeze in Ragnar, a Wolf Lord, a Rune Priest, two squads of 10 Grey Hunters and a 5-man pack of Skyclaws into that "750" points. I didn't notice until afterwards when I reflected on the game (I lost) and realised, through my good knowledge of the SW dex that he was over quite considerably. The game was fun though and I can't really blame him (well, I can, but) because he thinks Eldar are OP (though he thinks most things are OP).

The most common practices in cheating I have seen

1) the quick roll and scoop.
- solution: kindly ask player to roll in a area you can both see, even offer to help pick out dice that dont make the cut (such as failed weapon skill etc)

2) Forgetting the rules
- ask to bring the codex, if not present kindly remind them that they should always have it on hand in-case they need to reference things.

3) the Gamers inch!
This is a honest mistake I see newbies make. When measuring a few inches off the table they have a tendency to lean forward during the move giving themselves extra distance.
- explain how its a common issue and if they could measure closer to the ground then it wont occur.

4) The list tailor
- I lie about the number of armies I have or spin a fancy tale about just finishing a new army that I want to play (which I dont bring).

 generalchaos34 wrote:
Im guilty of reverse cheating. When i see that my opponent is having a bad time or the dice is just against them and I am crushing them, I will roll my dice behind a building and claim to have missed or failed armor saves. For me it keeps the game competitive and it makes my friends feel a bit better, plus its good to avoid any rage quits when you have a very small pool of people who play locally.

I'm guilty of reverse cheating, too! It looks bad to concede a game that you really don't want to finish up, so I will say I failed morale checks and armor saves and begin removing models just to end the game. The worst case of this is when I really didn't want to play against our store's TFG, so when he went to the bathroom I ended up having two terrible deep strike mishaps, resulting in the loss of my two strongest units on turn 2. Horrible coincidence.

 Happyjew wrote:
I'm the closest thing to "that guy" in my group, and by that, I'm pretty much the only one who actually knows all the various broken rules in the game. And then never bring them up in game.

Most of the time, I leave it up to my opponent:
Your call, do I get a cover save?
What do you think, 4 or 5 models?
I occasionally goof (who doesn't we're only human) and after the game I'll be the one who goes "Hey dude, for future reference, you screwed this up, those models are only Ld 7." or "Oops, I screwed that up, I thought it was S7 not S6. Sorry.".

Man this. If it's not a tourney, this all the way. I let my opponent make the call as i game predominantly with several of my best friends. I used to be the uber competitive one in the group, now i play to have a good time.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
It was with a very inexperienced group and he was constantly doing shady things the entire time that was more just for his own enjoyment than actually playing the game with the team. And when I mean constantly, I mean constantly. Every other minute he was texting the GM and going over in secret what he was trying to do, it's like he didn't want to play with the group.
For example I was playing a Kroot and he was playing some super psyker ninja assassin using a lot of broken rule interpretations we tried to explain to him were wrong and his goal was to become a grey knight. So while wandering through what's basically a sewer filled with acid he threw a psychic flashbang right in my character's face in the hopes he'd fall of the small ledge we were on and fall into the sewer. Ironically though I had thermal vision on and didn't notice the flash while he blinded the rest of the party and they all almost died.
He did that kind of stuff constantly and was actively working against the team even though the GM told him not to.

Sounds like a gakky GM.

Anyway, I've long ago learned to forestall any making up of rules and "forgetting the codex at home" by bringing a digital copy of all codices on a tablet.

Lets see... I've had people move their flyers 40" to make sure they could vector strike me. I've seen many shady die shenanigans such as specifically picking certain dice to roll, or grabbing them a bit to quickly for my taste. I've seen more than one list swapped out last second when my opponent saw what I brought. I've even seen FOC chart issues like extra HQs. And on and on...

However, I've also gotten several of my own armies rules wrong, sometimes badly so. I've taken saves I shouldn't have and told my opponent that a particular weapon was 1 AP point lower than it was (making it worse is that the weapon is the most common in my army and I definitely should know it's stats without thinking twice !). In one game I even insisted a weapon instagibbed a guy on a failed wounds test based on the wounds the model had left; it should have been his original wounds value. None of that was intentional at all. Just mistakes made when playing some random other person. For some reason I get nervous and forget stuff. Especially if I feel I have an seriously uphill battle coming.

Sometimes mistakes are made. I don't think that's cheating; although there is certainly enough of it out there that you should know how your opponents army plays and pay attention.

I do the whole reverse cheating thing too. Mostly I play my son, who is learning the rules as we play, one or 2 new ones at a time. Sometimes....I just dont win. I think its great when he gets excited cause he beat Daddies Space Marines.

When playing other adults, I ALWAYS offer my list before games, explain anything that is different then the models, show them all my "characters" (sgt's, hq, so on) and ask for opinions when using a template weapon. I say 3 orks, you?

I play for fun. Not for winning. Oh boy I won a GAME with my little plastic space men... I am king of the world......you must all bow to me!!!

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Not sure if this is mentioned before, but I've seen a few occasions before where my opponent will try to re-roll bad results, claiming that the dice is cocked due to it resting on something tiny like a piece of basing gravel on the board. Dice wedged between two board sections, yes that's cocked. Dice touching a model's base with one side raised about 1-2mm off the ground? No, it's not cocked, deal with it ¬¬

Easiest way to tell if a die is cocked:

Carefully place another die on top of it, if the die falls off it is cocked.

Edit: Didn't see the 3rd page

The problem with this method is it results in a fair amount of false positives. I've found the die placed on top slips off rather easily, even when the facing of the first D6 is almost flat. This still allows selective enforcement of cocked dice.

 undertow wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Not sure if this is mentioned before, but I've seen a few occasions before where my opponent will try to re-roll bad results, claiming that the dice is cocked due to it resting on something tiny like a piece of basing gravel on the board. Dice wedged between two board sections, yes that's cocked. Dice touching a model's base with one side raised about 1-2mm off the ground? No, it's not cocked, deal with it ¬¬

Easiest way to tell if a die is cocked:

Carefully place another die on top of it, if the die falls off it is cocked.

Edit: Didn't see the 3rd page

The problem with this method is it results in a fair amount of false positives. I've found the die placed on top slips off rather easily, even when the facing of the first D6 is almost flat. This still allows selective enforcement of cocked dice.

We always do it so that the person who wants the result to stand has to place the die.

Ultimate test for cocked dice is if they call it more often for their successful roles to be rerolled than unsuccessful roles.

The dice habit I hate is when they roll a big bunch of dice then pick out the successful ones faster than I can see, please do it the other way around, pick out the unsuccessful ones so I can double check before you scoop.

Looky Likey wrote:
Ultimate test for cocked dice is if they call it more often for their successful roles to be rerolled than unsuccessful roles.

The dice habit I hate is when they roll a big bunch of dice then pick out the successful ones faster than I can see, please do it the other way around, pick out the unsuccessful ones so I can double check before you scoop.

When they scoop, just say they don't count because you didn't see it. Simple as that. For me, you take the unsuccessful ones, so your opponent can see them. The once he says ok, then pick them up and roll to wound, and then he can take the successful dice and roll to save.

I feel lucky that I have a LARGE pool of gamers to play with and those people who act like this I can just discard and never play a game with again.

I had a buddy of mine back in fifth ed that his eldar had a 4++ on his dire avengers cause at the time my witches had their 4++ in cc.

another time he tried to say his eldar had so rediculous rule where he caused fear...needless to say i played him rarely and sadly he is no longer here...ok guy horrible cheat but after a while he did get better so i guess all the rules corrections did help him become a better player. hell i went out of my way and bought the codex just so i know what his stuff did so i could correct him.

I am super paranoid of being TFG because i hate TFG. I really just want to have a good time. My thing is usually forget to do one thing or another in a phase or i will forget that a dread was unable to fire the turn he somehow gets a head shot on a riptide and blows it up killing half my opponents army and then have to make the difficult decision of whether to tell them that that was a mistake. lol. I am really bad about forgeting to cast my buffs at the beginning of a turn and will sometimes blurt out right before firing that "OH CRAP I FORGOT TO CAST PRESCIEINCE!" "do you mind if i roll for it now?" I don't know if that is cheating but i iwll usually apologize a lot.

I don't play with people that would cheat but i think i did at one time but i am pretty sure the game was harder for him than it was for me and he was just trying to get it over with. He would have won either way but i was too busy drinking and having my marines try epic stuff to really care who was winning. If we both have a good time we both win.