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Totally understandable, I can respect that a thousand 'shades of grey' would get particularly tiresome to track in detail and have to constantly correct as new information came to light.

I am a fan of "caveat emptor", and from that perspective it indicates just how poisonous an influence this person has been over the years to receive the 'above and beyond the call of duty' treatment on the matter.

Pretty much. Daniel Mandelbaum in my opinion is the single greatest fraudster in the community in my opinion, and, since he has no intention of going away, that means ongoing vigilance is necessary.

The concern I have is that Daniel will never quit and one of these times will sneak past us and take someone for lots of money. We just have to be prepared and vigilant for the worst. As tom has said it takes a lot of time to monitor him and all of the rumors and complaints about companies and has to be filtered through to sort which ones are valid and Daniel related and which ones aren't.
I'd be willing to look into companies who are scams/recasters but working full time and my own studio would always come first.

If Mandelbaum managed a very large fraud on an individual, it would be the responsibility of the victim to place the case in the hands of the police.

The reason why Mandelbaum is never prosecuted is that the amounts involved are too small in individual cases. A victim who was defrauded of a large amount of money -- IDK how much that would be -- would be of more concern to the authorities.

So you can't prosecute a professional handbag thief until he makes a big haul over 1000$ ?

 Kroothawk wrote:
So you can't prosecute a professional handbag thief until he makes a big haul over 1000$ ?

That's the thing, you CAN but if a handbag thief stole $100 from you, would it be worth your time spending what would likely end up being thousands more just to take him to court? Yes it'd solve the problem for the community, but pragmatically speaking I doubt anyone would shoulder the bill out of goodwill.

 Kroothawk wrote:
So you can't prosecute a professional handbag thief until he makes a big haul over 1000$ ?

"You" can't prosecute anyone. The police and director of public prosecutions do that. They make their decisions based on various criteria including the number of complaints, the amount stolen, the quality of evidence, and so on.

Yup. It's not up to us. I told a cop friend about this, asked what would happen up here... he heard toy soldiers and just started laughing and basically was about to change the topic as if that was it. It took me 20 more minutes to give him the full picture of what was going on.

Unless the actual victims band together, we can only man the watchtowers for this guy to keep him out. That's about it. Everything is being documented though, sooner or later, someone will have enough and won't take no for an answer from the authorities, and then he is going to be in deep gak. Sooner or later, his luck will run out with the feds, cops or IRS. His only way to avoid that is to get the hell out of the hobby, or at least, the 'business' side of things. I.e stop the aliases, harassment, fraud and scams.

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Yup. It's not up to us. I told a cop friend about this, asked what would happen up here... he heard toy soldiers and just started laughing and basically was about to change the topic as if that was it. It took me 20 more minutes to give him the full picture of what was going on.

Unless the actual victims band together, we can only man the watchtowers for this guy to keep him out. That's about it. Everything is being documented though, sooner or later, someone will have enough and won't take no for an answer from the authorities, and then he is going to be in deep gak. Sooner or later, his luck will run out with the feds, cops or IRS. His only way to avoid that is to get the hell out of the hobby, or at least, the 'business' side of things. I.e stop the aliases, harassment, fraud and scams.

And by banding together = it damn well meet a certain $ amount or his local PD and District Attorney won't do anything but send YOU a pretty little form letter.

@Tom
Now imagine someone is telling you LE friend the same story, but he doesn't know them. I doubt they would have been able to get to the end of it like you did.
And not because he's uncaring, but because the people that are in charge of investigating such things aren't usually part of the community of gamers. They hear toys but don't give it a dollar value sadly.

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Yup. It's not up to us. I told a cop friend about this, asked what would happen up here... he heard toy soldiers and just started laughing and basically was about to change the topic as if that was it. It took me 20 more minutes to give him the full picture of what was going on.

Unless the actual victims band together, we can only man the watchtowers for this guy to keep him out. That's about it. Everything is being documented though, sooner or later, someone will have enough and won't take no for an answer from the authorities, and then he is going to be in deep gak. Sooner or later, his luck will run out with the feds, cops or IRS. His only way to avoid that is to get the hell out of the hobby, or at least, the 'business' side of things. I.e stop the aliases, harassment, fraud and scams.

Tom's summed it up pretty nicely.

The individual amounts, the spread out nature of his victims and the subject matter all combine to make this one a non-starter for almost anyone in 'law enforcement'.

They simply do not feel it is worth their time, money or effort - they are often times completely overbooked, overworked and extremely pressed for success.

To be fair to the police, there are a lot of demands on their time, and they can't cover everything, so they concentrate on the stuff that seems important.

Exactly - and again, that's what works against those who have been scammed and what, ironically enough, works for DM.

alarmingrick wrote:And by banding together = it damn well meet a certain $ amount or his local PD and District Attorney won't do anything but send YOU a pretty little form letter.

Kilkrazy wrote:To be fair to the police, there are a lot of demands on their time, and they can't cover everything, so they concentrate on the stuff that seems important.

There is also an upper $ limit of what District attornies prosecute, see Goldman Sachs.

It also depends on who you talk to, what's going on at that time in their area, etc.

Over a decade ago a guy tried to rip me and a bunch of other people off over Ebay. A bunch of us called and emailed the local police, and they actually started calling us back. Eventually it was sorted out and the guy gave out refunds. It had to have been a smaller overall loss than what DM's racked up, but we might've just been lucky and found an officer with a few hours to kill on a quiet shift and decided to look into this "people being ripped off over a stupid card game thing" matter.

It'd be funny if some member of the community who was independently wealthy (like, never has to work a day in his or her life) decided to take DM up on an absolutely too good to be true offer for enough to justify a solid law enforcement investigation. "Toy soldiers" or not, I imagine once you break five or ten grand at once someone would take an interest, if just for the story to tell later. "Man, you would not believe what some people will pay for these miniatures..."

Well my post pointing out that Big Bad had been in touch with Dan/Alan managed a record breaking 12 hours before been taken down and i got banned ! He must be busy setting up his next scam

 Forar wrote:
It also depends on who you talk to, what's going on at that time in their area, etc.

Over a decade ago a guy tried to rip me and a bunch of other people off over Ebay. A bunch of us called and emailed the local police, and they actually started calling us back. Eventually it was sorted out and the guy gave out refunds. It had to have been a smaller overall loss than what DM's racked up, but we might've just been lucky and found an officer with a few hours to kill on a quiet shift and decided to look into this "people being ripped off over a stupid card game thing" matter.

...

It must have helped that a group of victims all complained. The individual sums add up to a more impressive total.

Well my post pointing out that Big Bad had been in touch with Dan/Alan managed a record breaking 12 hours before been taken down and i got banned ! He must be busy setting up his next scam

Which clearly proves that his imaginary alias (remember, no social security number for "Alan Welson" in California for anybody under 70) didn't commit self-harm. Since it is so important to still try to hide stuff that everybody on the internet knows.

So, has anyone found his next scam yet?

Not to drag this thread back up but wanted to show people who believed Alan had harmed himself.

As of this morning he is still alive.
Just sharing this for the concerned individuals.

Nice to see his alias still alive

 alarmingrick wrote:


@Tom
Now imagine someone is telling you LE friend the same story, but he doesn't know them. I doubt they would have been able to get to the end of it like you did.
And not because he's uncaring, but because the people that are in charge of investigating such things aren't usually part of the community of gamers. They hear toys but don't give it a dollar value sadly.

and everyone's insistence to set the value of a miniature at 50% of retail or less really doesn't help either. It might cost you $300 to replace that landraider, the squad of terminators, the commander, the couple tac squads and daemon auxilia, but if the community insists on trading at 50% of retail value, it really doesn't help push the claim that you're $300 out. I had one guy I traded with crap on me that I put the value of the models i sent him at $100, and he had to pay tax on it, but if I don't declare the value and the package goes missing, I'm not going to pay out of my pocket to make up for the difference in the value of the trade, and I get royally hacked when I get something I know is worth near $100, and only $20 were declared, because if the package goes missing, at best, I'm out by $80 worth of that trade. There's more at stake here than just the tax. It doesn't matter what the retail value is, what matters is what you sold it for, and if you consistently insist on selling/declaring for less, you can consistently expect cons to be a bane on the community, and get away without getting charged because the value of what they steal has been severely deflated.

...just saying...

 ExiledMiniatures wrote:
Not to drag this thread back up but wanted to show people who believed Alan had harmed himself.

Spoiler:

As of this morning he is still alive.
Just sharing this for the concerned individuals.

Okay, question. Why is Daniel & MJ both listed as liking whatever?
Is it just a random thing, or are they linked? Thanks for any help for
us "Facespace" challenged!

It's just a Facebook thing. Facebook 'summarises' them together when multiple Friends of yours like the same things.

 insaniak wrote:
It's just a Facebook thing. Facebook 'summarises' them together when multiple Friends of yours like the same things.

Thanks, O' insane one! I thought MJ seemed too decent to be an alias of Daniels.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=505295906215257&id=481959581882223
Annnnnnd hes back

My guess is that he is working on the next project and now he is just trying to use this failed venture as a smoke and mirror operation to keep everybody distracted.

CalasTyphon216 wrote:
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=505295906215257&id=481959581882223
Annnnnnd hes back

That's exactly what I thought of when I saw it... He's BAAACCCKK!!!

So, he's still trying to pass this off to get money hoping it's cooled off... Hate to tell him, but we don't go away that easily...

Repost on the latest from his Facebook page.

There have been a number of posts like this going up on his FB page around midnight EST and being deleted later in the a.m.

"***** Update Time! *******

I know that we have been discussing this all back and forth via email and PMs, so if anything is a repeat, I do apologize.

For the few people who wanted a hound made up, I have great news.

First off, the 2 Khorne custom hounds with inlaid skulls and lots of Khorne Bronze symbols is almost done. It also includes TONS of other details suck as many spikes, variant power plant and custom head with slightly open mouth showing many sharp teeth like a shark.

Next was the 2 Slaanesh versions which after the drama before the designs have been changed to fit each customer. Small give away would be thinner, doom pack on torso, doom sirens and speakers around face and TONS of ornate trim all over.

Finally the renegade hound will take the fee of a merc that would work for any side if the pay is right. (or whichever side the HH does the best)

------------This is not a post for any one except those that have questions on the kit or what can be done with it. Its start drama.Those posts will be removed. Lets keep it civil people.-------"

These "hounds", are they the 3D printed Titan models from files he says some other client of his ripped from BigBad Studio?

One can only assume. The thing is, the messages only go up while people are sleeping, then get taken down. This is for someone's benefit, he's keeping someone who subscribes to his page on the hook. What are the odds there's another message that comes out next week about some problem that makes it so he needs more time...