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 Kilkrazy wrote:
Whoever is running Black Crusade can establish their credentials by publishing their business registration as required by law.

A video statement would also help clearing things up
Esp. that this Black Crusade is not run by corrupted people

Some of the responses from this new shop being shared in this thread sound exactly like the responses from DM the last time around.

Im glad there are people keeping an eye out for such people, because even if this isnt DM it sounds super sketchy, and I for one will be staying away from the "store".

I dunno. Wanting the guy's email to establish communication rather than some site's PM service isn't a Terrible idea as it might give you a better "paper" trail to show the discussion later if need be.

That's fine. His inability to secure said email despite extremely obvious vectors to do so, blaming a third party, claiming a witch hunt immediately, deleting reasonable questions, writing style and 'troll posts' comments are what raises eyebrows here. I don't care if he get's in touch by carrier pidgeon or CIA certified telepath, his 'inability' to do so is what is concerning. He can however get to facebook, claim to be the victim of a far fetched and terrible scam, and blame a third party he won't name. Whoever he is and all that.

I was wondering (as I don't know the answer):

1) Does anyone know whether 3D-printing a custom Warhound Titan and selling it is legal or IP infringement?

2) If it is IP infringement, did anyone tell GW Legal?

1a) Okay for personal use if agreed with opponent beforehand (just like any other scratchbuild.) 1b) Selling is a no-no which the original sculptor alluded to in his video.

Right, that's what I thought. So the website looks like BCS is printing and selling multiple copies, e.g.:

A few more designs will be going in with the printings of the current Chaos 'Hound' . The orders for the print's on them will be made today so only a few short hours remain.

Custom requests for specific styles can and will be taken today via PM to here, Black Crusade Studio . Simply email what type of 1 of a kind style you want, and I will get back to you at once.

So that's not allowed, right?

That is correct it is a close enough product to forgeworld warhound titan of chaos that Gw's ip lawyers would jump on it, but he says he's taking orders but doesn't list them explicitly for sale, so he may be in a loopholes. I don't know copyright law that well to know that it's anything more than an IP violation.

Update: I also forwarded his page to GW legal and IP for them to look at and decide if it
Infringes their IP.

BCS has deleted the posts about selling the titan model now.

The remaining works are still VERY DM'esque in their style and manner of conversion, and again no such Alan Welson exists out here in the LA area.

Someone posted on the BCS page for him to directly answer the allegations being brought up here, and he hasn't managed to delete that post yet, so we'll see. They were online rather recently.

While BCS were busy claiming to be trying to contact the owner of the file, they were busy deleting every post that contained the actual contact details.
I got the contact details from Warseer, posted them up and was promptly deleted and banned.

I screen capped all the pictures they posted with the request for private PM pre-orders. I also commented again since I previous one inviting him to this thread has been deleted.

I asked if I could pick up and pay in person since I live in the LA area. No response yet...

I want some of those pieces. When i look at the photo;s why are some of them tagged with Rolljordon on them? Is he involved in this business because I have had dealings with him in the past and they were all great transactions.

 fullheadofhair wrote:
I want some of those pieces. When i look at the photo;s why are some of them tagged with Rolljordon on them? Is he involved in this business because I have had dealings with him in the past and they were all great transactions.

More than likely not. Tagging people causes it to show into people who follow said tag on their newsfeed. It's free publicity. Tag a big name painter in the post and it'll show up in their newsfeed and their followers feed. Nothing on the page resembles rolljordans work and knowing he's been through the GW legal battle I doubt he'd get involved in a company that willingly violates GW IP.

 Aerethan wrote:
BCS has deleted the posts about selling the titan model now.

The remaining works are still VERY DM'esque in their style and manner of conversion, and again no such Alan Welson exists out here in the LA area.

Someone posted on the BCS page for him to directly answer the allegations being brought up here, and he hasn't managed to delete that post yet, so we'll see. They were online rather recently.

Almost right after that any posts, mine included directing him here were deleted, although I was not banned and have reposted for him to address the issues.

I just noticed that the current facebook number of likes are 666.... :O Methinks this is indeed the sign of the beast that is Mandelbaum; deleter of comments and master of tomfoolery.

If it really is him it's sad to see that it looks like he'll never learn. Wasting his potential on scamming will only result on him either finally facing the music once and for all (once he slips up and authorities actually catch up on him) or he gets a more personal style of street-justice from disgruntled people he tried pulling his scams on. Either way I can't believe he's up and running on his next big thing already. Guess those birds of his must really have some high upkeep

Amazingly at this moment my latest post hasn't been deleted. My previous one which was deleted on mobile, apparently is still on the full page though as well.

If it were not DM as he claims, why will he not join the forum and defend himself? Instead he issues facebook comments asking for others to do it for him, which as we all have pointed out is typical of DM.

I'd be interested in hearing from anyone if Catwell has actually attempted to contact BCS or not.

Well I guess we just wait for someone to make a new account on dakka and start singing this companys praises.

If one good thing has come of this whole mess it's that I now know about the orignal creators website... nice stuff there.

I'm waiting for the fake anglo-german C&D letter sent to Dakka, Warseer and Catwell.

I like the new use of the word "Client" they are using it sounds so professional (my boss uses it all the time when he's trying to BS or impress someone) .

However BCS are now at the stage where they are throwing misdirections about the validity of the claims made against them and a mysterious "Client" has come forward claiming that

"I found it easy to contact BigBad about his 3d printed warhound. I did it thru Shapeways. Be well."

I assume that all this is to run the clock out on Paypal payments

I'm sure a C&D with DM on will be coming along shortly.

I logged out of facebook to view his page and my comments have been deleted, but I am still not banned.

I don't expect to hear any answers from the page anytime soon though.
What still hasn't been answered:
-Is BCS a registered business and operating legally?
-Who is really running the "Alan Welson" facebook and by extension BCS?
-For a studio based in LA why is there no record of them existing there?
-Who provided the file to print the titan, and why would BCS pay for the file without checking it's validity? And if they didn't "buy" it, why did the "creator" share it for free? What was the return on the investment?

To me that last one will be this incidents version of the fake C&D lawyer rip-off from the RF incident.
BCS will come out and say they purchased the print believing it to be the work of a client who stole it without their knowledge and that they are indeed the victim,
It's what happened when it was discovered that the C&D was fake. The story was, We were ripped off by a lawyer.

I don't think anyone here has any plans to let this fade from memory fast without checking into every incident and record for BCS.

I forgot to thank Tom for the support! Means a lot to me! And everyone else who was watching this page and sourcing information.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Savagecoyote wrote:
I like the new use of the word "Client" they are using it sounds so professional (my boss uses it all the time when he's trying to BS or impress someone) .

However BCS are now at the stage where they are throwing misdirections about the validity of the claims made against them and a mysterious "Client" has come forward claiming that

"I found it easy to contact BigBad about his 3d printed warhound. I did it thru Shapeways. Be well."

I assume that all this is to run the clock out on Paypal payments

More than likely, although since orders were closed today according to his page, he still has 44 more days to stall refunds. In the case that this isn't resolved then, we can issue a statement that anyone still waiting for a model that will never come can call paypal directly with the dispute to resolve it past the deadline.

Another thing I would like to see an answer from BCS on is who is this client, where did he come from, and why hasn't he shared here as a third party to address the community.

I had a nice chat with Alan on a GW fansite FB page:
http://imgur.com/IUpQhbE
Of course he is the victim, and we are the bad guys. Shame on us guys.

Also:

Alan Welson That shows right there you dont know how I collect orders. I use PM to discuss details, I use paypal checkout to order things. Huge difference. I also inform all my customers about the 45 day 100% money back with paypal.

I wont bother with dakka or warseer. I dont feel like being flamed. The item is not for sale. I have no problem customers and never had and will simply continue with my commission work.

The only thing I want is to have Big Bad respond to me so I can give him the clients details and they can then battle it out and maybe, just MAYBE I can get an apology for being scammed as well. I admit I made a mistake not doing more of a check on my client, but what artist does that to each and every client? None.

Im also done talking here. The admins can decide how to handle this as this OP was to get feedback, not defend myself by the smae group of people as I do on my own page for something I did not knowingly do wrong and wish to resolve it.

Gave that a nice read over and it is similar to the arguing style of DM and as I said, he's playing the victim. But before we had this thread, I offered painting services and tried to buy bits from him, but each of my messages was "seen" but never responded to.
My guess is because if he sold me something, I'd have proof to turn over to this thread to add to the chain of amounting evidence.

The fact that Alan is unwilling to resolve the situation and PM Catwell is concerning enough. PM and email would work just as well as each other and he has the pm information. Since he is the one who stole Catwell's model then he should contact him.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alan Welson That shows right there you dont know how I collect orders. I use PM to discuss details, I use paypal checkout to order things. Huge difference. I also inform all my customers about the 45 day 100% money back with paypal.

This is the exact same way Resin Forge took orders when they "Shut Down" the webstore. Now if someone has managed to check out and can provide the email address Alan provided it would do a lot to resolve his identity.

I wont bother with dakka or warseer. I dont feel like being flamed. The item is not for sale. I have no problem customers and never had and will simply continue with my commission work.

The only thing I want is to have Big Bad respond to me so I can give him the clients details and they can then battle it out and maybe, just MAYBE I can get an apology for being scammed as well. I admit I made a mistake not doing more of a check on my client, but what artist does that to each and every client? None.

I'd actually believe in a business venture as expensive as 3d printing and selling that someone would do at least a little background checking. Considering the astronomical expenses to produce what he promised. As another commission artist, I can say that I do usually look into almost 90% of my clients on large projects to make sure I will not be out time or money. If i have to pay for something, I collect those funds up front.
For him to claim to care about continuing his commission work and caring for clients, he doesn't act like it. Without having looked into the titan situation before posting it for sale he put his business and client relationship at risk.

As for us flaming him. If he presents himself politely and collective the community is reasonable and willing to listen. But factual proof needs to be provided as well. It's the same that was asked of me when I was managing the RF page.

Funnily enough, 'Mr Welson' claimed to have previously worked at a gaming store in Long Beach CA. It would surely help ease the community's fears if he could tell us which one that was. That way, we could ring them and ask about him, to help prove he isn't Mandelbondsley.

 Ketara wrote:
Funnily enough, 'Mr Welson' claimed to have previously worked at a gaming store in Long Beach CA. It would surely help ease the community's fears if he could tell us which one that was. That way, we could ring them and ask about him, to help prove he isn't Mandelbondsley.

According to google and this site there are only 4 hobby & Game stores in Long beach, so it shouldn't be hard if they're still in business!
http://long-beach.hubbiz.com/hobby-model-shops

I take back all I said about "This time it could all be a mistake.."

This IS Mandelbaum, it has to be. Especially reading the conversation Tigerstein had with him.

Oh god, it's happening again!

I noticed the part where he wrote, "I can provide a screen shot for the nay sayers as well if needed." yet fails to provide such or a link to such. Deja vu?

Greetings All...
Mostly I've been just a lurker here for quite some time... but something happened today which has caused me to create an account and log in to post in response to someone asking why the mysterious client hasn't been here to reply.

I'm James Keller -- the guy that BCS has used in his FB post. I've written him back after that and asked him to stop using my name -- he took what I said out of context and apparently to support his claims about selling 3D printed chaos warhounds.

Soooo...
I was in talks with him last night - and things just devolved and got sketchier and sketchier as the evening wore on.
Thinking something was up -- I went and checked BigBad's response... and behold it screamed scam or worse. Told him I'd sleep on it.

I was sent a Paypal invoice this morning which I promptly canceled and advised BCS to sort himself out. I mentioned that it's all to easy to go to BigBad's Shapeways page and contact him.

Talked about this today with some friends at lunch (I'm here in Japan with the Wargamers in Japan club - and the A-Z Gaming Club). I can post screen caps of our conversation if anyone wants 'em. Even the canceled Paypal invoice. Just want justice on this (like Batman)! Let me know what you guys need...

Be Well ~James

James, could you please PM me the email from his paypal account and name on the account?

Your the first third party encounter to create a Dakka account and respond and I appreciate you coming forward. Despite the accusations of this community, they are all welcoming and friendly.

James, welcome and thanks for coming forward. I would be very interested a out that PayPal invoice myself... Particularly the location on it state and city.

Sure Deal -- about to get off work... and get dinner. It'll be a little bit as I drive home and take care of stuff...

Hope we can sort this out... least of all, I hope no one gets taken for any money what so ever. ~James