Is there, a site with a majority of a positive view of GW?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**gossipmeng**

If you actually read most of the GW-hate posts, you'll find that quite often they have no real reasons: "omgzors a helldrake killed 2 tactical squads in 1 turn!!! This game is so broken" -> (keeps playing/buying 40k)

What those threads always turn into is: Why should I play GW when there are better systems out there? Then it takes about 20 posts before we yet again come to the conclusions that GW doesn't design games for competitive play. You stick around for the fluff, models, casual play, and large community/player base.

Then people complain about price.... to which we tell these complainers - you have options: quit, use 3rd party models, or buy from FLGS with discounts.

It may look like there is a lot of hate for GW online, but it is really just these issues being brought up repeatedly. It is always like this online for anything though - when people are mad they feel as though they need to be heard. Happy people are too busy gaming, painting, and building to be bothered logging in and making "I love GW" posts.

**pities2004**

xxvaderxx wrote:
I mean, i am not going to take sides on this particular post, but it is clear that the majority of Dakka dakka has a negative opinion on GW, so my question is, is there a forum where it is the opposite?.

The only site i know of is www.games-workshop.com

**Dinamarth**

I do not hate GW. Do I think their prices are high? Yes, of course. But I have become very resourceful in getting great deals, on here, eBay, and locally. You personally can't change the high prices, so why focus so much on it? What I can control is where I buy and how much I am willing to spend.

**orkybenji**

It depends where on Dakka you are reading. In the tactics, list, painting, and usually 40k forums people don't really bash GW. These forums tend to have pretty positive discussions.

The GW negativity is mostly located in Dakka discussions and News & Rumors. This is because this is where discussion of GW's policies and decisions comes up. GW makes a lot of controversial decisions that are often frustrating to their fans. Almost everyone, even the biggest of fans, disagrees with at least something GW does. In forums where these topics are discussed you will almost always have people complaining about it.

Either stick to the specific forums like painting and modeling or try other forums. Pretty much anywhere you go you will find GW negativity if there is any forum or place to talk about their business practices. It's just the way it is.

**Talizvar**

OP: is there a site with a positive view?

That would be requesting a non-critical view of their product.

If you ONLY look at the fluff I think most would be very happy.

If you review a shareholder site they would be quite happy.

Anyone as a new customer may be fine, the rest of us remembering the "good old days" have that contrast so may be more critical.

I really look at Dakka with the view of we know what they COULD do to make the hobby better as fans/customers but it is a bit at odds with a corporation viewpoint of make money and not give freebies away.

So really, to what purpose if you find a more positive site? We are drawn to the darker backdrop of the GW IP so we are a more "grim/dark" kind of people.

Feel free to find the land of unicorns and rainbows, it has it's place (just nowhere near me...)

**Azreal13**

gossipmeng wrote:
Happy people are too busy gaming, painting, and building to be bothered logging in and making "I love GW" posts.

While I agree with most of what you've said, I just wanted to highlight this part.

I'm sure you're right in the majority of cases, but, personally speaking, I've been using Dakka for a few years now, to the extent that while I wouldn't count anyone here as a friend in the truest sense (although there's one or two characters I'd like to meet and change that) the community as a whole has become a part of the fabric of my day to day life.

Consequently, if I have a positive wargaming experience I'm as likely to share it as a negative one, just like I share stuff with my friends and family (only, you know, more wargamery) I wouldn't necessarily start a new thread, but it would definitely come out in my posts somewhere.

For instance, I saw Dark Hammer Miniatures Blood Tyrant finished in their thread in N+R last night. That was a squee moment right there, now I'm sharing it!

**Pacific**

gossipmeng wrote:
It may look like there is a lot of hate for GW online, but it is really just these issues being brought up repeatedly. It is always like this online for anything though - when people are mad they feel as though they need to be heard. Happy people are too busy gaming, painting, and building to be bothered logging in and making "I love GW" posts.

If you look at other company's forums pages, or forums focused on them, you'll find that that's not the case. Infinity forums have a fair amount of gushing and use of nice-natured emoticons..

There is a causal relationship between the actions a company takes and the reception those actions generate, obviously, but where we differ is how much each of these things affect us personally. I was overseas, living in a country with no games stores, when GW brought in its ban on international sales of its products. Of course that gave me reason to complain.. but, someone sat at home in the UK could just shrug and say 'so what?' while they rip the wrapping off their latest GW purchase, and their opinion is just as valid (although you could argue perhaps a little selfish). Lot's of other business decisions made by GW could be viewed in the same way, and perhaps the key is that companies with a better perception generally will have made less of these 'moves'.

**Talizvar**

Think of the griping as the same as giving your friend a slap on the back and say "Hey, you were more fun than this, what is wrong? Can I help?"

GW does not want our help so we just sit here confused and hope it all works out.

**insaniak**

mattyrm wrote:
If the aim of a wargaming company is to contribute to wargaming, then GW have absolutely and positively done so in the past 12 months.

The apparent rapid reduction of 40K players in many areas since the arrival of 6th edition would seem to suggest otherwise. Releasing bunches of stuff is not a positive contribution to wargaming if the end result of you releasing that stuff is people abandoning your brand in droves.

Some of those players will turn to other games (I've just rediscovered the joy of Warmachine, and am rather happy about it), which is certainly good for the companies that produce those games, and the people who play them... others will simply turn to other hobbies, because right now there are no other games that fill the exact same niche as 40K does. And that's not so good.

A positive contribution to wargaming is one that gets people excited about wargaming. Not one that makes people stop and wonder just what the hell they've been doing throwing money at this company for all these years, and deciding it's time to go fishing instead.

**Hivefleet Oblivion**

Talizvar wrote:
Think of the griping as the same as giving your friend a slap on the back and say "Hey, you were more fun than this, what is wrong? Can I help?"

GW does not want our help so we just sit here confused and hope it all works out.

Or... the relationship is old, you're bored with your girlfriend, and tell her: "It's not me.. it's you!"

**Boss GreenNutz**

The majority is usually silent on most issues. Take the number of members look at the number who post negatively and do the math.

**Pacific**

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
Talizvar wrote:
Think of the griping as the same as giving your friend a slap on the back and say "Hey, you were more fun than this, what is wrong? Can I help?"

GW does not want our help so we just sit here confused and hope it all works out.

Or... the relationship is old, you're bored with your girlfriend, and tell her: "It's not me.. it's you!"

I'll get splinters in my bum here and say that the truth is probably somewhere in-between both of these perspectives..

**Talizvar**

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
Or... the relationship is old, you're bored with your girlfriend, and tell her: "It's not me.. it's you!"

Scary:
Taking my disposable income.
Going out on disappointing dates.
Demanding more of my money.
Mercurial in nature: can never tell where her next interest will be.
Hoping that changing her clothes (packaging) interest would be sparked again.
Her parents trump my needs (shareholders).
Decreased the number of "services" I used to get.
Keeps adding expensive surface "upgrades" to herself to keep my interest and money.
Falls into old habits and feels no need to talk things out.

Darn it, you have reduced this relationship to "Gold Digger".

**Aerethan**

I think Dakka is far from "anti GW".

The site wouldn't likely exist if GW and it's games didn't.

The problem with ALL forums, is that complaints ring louder than compliments. And it only takes a vocal minority to make those complaints loud.

A common phrase in any industry that deals with the public:

A satisfied customer will tell a single person about their positive experience at a business.
A dissatisfied customer will tell at least 5 people about their negative experience at a business.

It's in our nature to spread the word about a bad experience, possibly as a subconscious effort to warn people away from the same experience.

I love GW's products(at least most of them), and while their rules are far from perfect, they work well enough to have a fun time. My only real problems with them stem almost entirely with their management style and decisions.

And generally that is all you'll ever hear me complain about in regards to GW.

**sing your life**

TMP is very positive of GW [sarcasm]

**Some_Call_Me_Tim?**

curran12 wrote:
It's a bit of an echo chamber effect.

I'd wager that most folks here are, at the very least, neutral to GW. The problem is that the loudest and most vocal people tend to color the atmosphere, and those vocal people are more vehemently anti-GW.

The same is true for Matt Smith/Steven Moffat/Doctor Who season 6 haters. Man, those guys get so mad over a kids' TV show that it's kinda scary.

Back OT, I don't hate GW, I hate the corporate wankery and greed that's keeping GW from fulfilling it's potential and fully serving the customers. I want them to do well and to keep making excellent games and models for years and years to come, so I get pretty annoyed when they shoot themselves in the foot for the umpteenth time.

~Tim?

**Grot 6**

mattyrm wrote:
Grot 6 wrote:
xxvaderxx wrote:
I mean, i am not going to take sides on this particular post, but it is clear that the majority of Dakka dakka has a negative opinion on GW, so my question is, is there a forum where it is the opposite?.

What have they done lately that has been or can currently be called positive?

You are one of the small minority of people that part of the blokes problem, why are you even bothering to post in here?

As far as your "question" goes, why not just look at all the models and books they are constantly releasing? The fact is, most people educated in the facts (myself included) have some degree of contempt for GWs silly corporate decisions, high prices, and lawsuits, but that isn't part of the hobby, thats corporate business. Why does that have to play a part in your decision making? Are you one of these weird commune living fethers who sports a beard, lives in a wigwam, and only buys fair trade and mercilessly studies the background of every company you occasionally buy from?

If you look past your fixation with the behind the scenes, every release that they have made can be called positive, because it has saw some excellent models enter the hobby, starting with DE and moving all the way to the present, Eldar, DA, Chaos, Tau, if you remove your strange distaste for everything two tiers above the hobby from the equation, they constantly do the same positive things any gaming company does, making and sculpting models and books.

The vast majority of people that play 40k (myself included) liked plenty of their lizardmen models even if they don't play them, and are looking forward to the new Space Marine codex.

If you have a bizarre loathing for a PLC that you don't own stock in, and a team of developers and painters and sculptors that you have never met, and don't know, because you have to toss them all under the umbrella of "evil" then I suggest you stop buying pretty much anything and everything. Apple, Starbucks, McDonalds, what is left to buy from if you apply such a ridiculously high bar?

What I recommend you do however, is get over yourself, and buy things you like for the sheer joy of wanting them, and having enough cash in your arse pocket. Regardless of the fact that you heard a rumor that the company is question has a sweat shop in Peru, buys beef from governments hostile to US interests, or tries to avoid paying their taxes.

For a shorter response, read something by MGS, who rightly pointed out that having distaste for everything suit, doesn't mean you have to deprive yourself of something you enjoy.

You mad, Bro?

I'm still waiting on that positive, chuckie. I need your veiled insults like another hole in my head.

**mattyrm**

Grot 6 wrote:

You mad, Bro?

I'm still waiting on that positive, chuckie. I need your veiled insults like another hole in my head.

I gave you plenty of positives, read the post again. Everyone without an agenda can see what is right there in front of their face.

And I'm not mad at all, because I have huge distaste for a great many things GW do, I'm not a shareholder, I hate thier litigious attitude, I find their idea of advertising baffling, some of their models are awful, and from what little I know of him, I'm about as fond of Mr Kirby as I would be of finding a rattlesnake in my boot.

I'm just embarrassed for you thats all. I find your posts cringeworthy to the point that I actually cower a little when I read them. Its like watching the male Shakira perform on TV, or seeing a hairy, male, 30 year old television presenter on the Disney channel sing songs in a high pitched voice and dance for children.

I've never been able to watch cringeworthy comedy.. and In that vein I think you should start acting your age, and say something like "Yes matty, you are quite correct, GW might be awful on a corporate level, but that doesn't mean I have to take it personally to the point of being utterly illogical, and I can happily concede that a few of their models look quite good"

**insaniak**

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
The same is true for Matt Smith/Steven Moffat/Doctor Who season 6 haters. Man, those guys get so mad over a kids' TV show that it's kinda scary.

You've misunderstood Doctor Who if you think it's intended to be a kid's show...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

mattyrm wrote:
I've never been able to watch cringeworthy comedy.. and In that vein I think you should start acting your age, and say something like "Yes matty, you are quite correct, GW might be awful on a corporate level, but that doesn't mean I have to take it personally to the point of being utterly illogical, and I can happily concede that a few of their models look quite good"

Thus perfectly illustrating a large part of the problem suffered on pretty much any forum - The 'If you don't think the way I do, you're being illogical/childish/just a hater' effect in action. Never was there a more misbegoten phrase than 'act your age'. What does that even mean?

We're all here because we enjoy playing with toy soldiers.

If more people could just accept that sometimes other people have a different opinion, or a different outlook on life, we'd all be one step closer to just getting along...

**kirsanth**

Of course!

**mattyrm**

insaniak wrote:
We're all here because we enjoy playing with toy soldiers. If more people could just accept that sometimes other people have a different opinion, or a different outlook on life, we'd all be one step closer to just getting along...

Oh come on, I would happily hold my hands up if there was even a remote chance of their being some failure to communicate on my part, or even some sort of "different outlook" but we are dealing with a black and white here. In fact, you said it very well yourself.

insaniak wrote:

And some, for some inexplicable reason, can not separate the game from the company... Liking 40k or WHFB, and being interested in discussing them, are not directly related... And neither is automatically directly related to a like or dislike of GW.

Well said indeed, I agree entirely with you and MGS, on all counts by the way. This quote right here however...

Grot 6 wrote:
What have they done lately that has been or can currently be called positive?

Is, entirely absurd, and it needs to be pointed out when grown men behave in a truly ridiculous matter. If he was talking about the capital of France he would be insisting it was Reykjavik, If we were discussing 9/11, it would have been Freemason affiliated Muslim Ninjas planting bombs under cover of darkness. If we were talking about the banks, it would be snake people and martians.

There is nothing even remotely sensible about what was said, you, and MGS, and I have all pointed out that you can have distaste for a company but concede that you like a model, or enjoy a book. But to sit there and say that the worlds biggest wargaming company has done nothing positive at all for the hobby, when they are constantly releasing product that is popular, and even if you hate half of their range, sometimes pleasing to look upon, is flat out, wacky.

I don't see why its insulting at all to say "mate, step back and think about what you are saying" is it? Or for the sake of "getting along" do we have to tolerate madness? Honestly, that seems to be the case in this day and age, and its truly ridiculous.

It seems we are only allowed to respond to ridiculous gak nowadays if it is in response to white supremacy and anti-semitism.

**Grot 6**

mattyrm wrote:
Grot 6 wrote:

You mad, Bro?

I'm still waiting on that positive, chuckie. I need your veiled insults like another hole in my head.

I gave you plenty of positives, read the post again. Everyone without an agenda can see what is right there in front of their face.

And I'm not mad at all, because I have huge distaste for a great many things GW do, I'm not a shareholder, I hate thier litigious attitude, I find their idea of advertising baffling, some of their models are awful, and from what little I know of him, I'm about as fond of Mr Kirby as I would be of finding a rattlesnake in my boot.

I'm just embarrassed for you thats all. I find your posts cringeworthy to the point that I actually cower a little when I read them. Its like watching the male Shakira perform on TV, or seeing a hairy, male, 30 year old television presenter on the Disney channel sing songs in a high pitched voice and dance for children.

I've never been able to watch cringeworthy comedy.. and In that vein I think you should start acting your age, and say something like "Yes matty, you are quite correct, GW might be awful on a corporate level, but that doesn't mean I have to take it personally to the point of being utterly illogical, and I can happily concede that a few of their models look quite good"

Whatever.

I posted a pretty legitimate question, you came back and continue to do so with condescending gak.

Those "New" models? they're gak. The new range of Finecast? yeah, You think they have improved? Feth no-that stuff is still as craptastic as ever?

As long as your entertained though, keep on keeping on. Great insults, by the way, all because I ask "What have they done that is positive lately?"

Thanks.

And for what its worth, I like the chaos cultists. I picked up two squads of them, and the crazy Nurgle champion from fantasy and modeled him up for 40K. I stepped back after almost getting killed for some dumb gak and reevaluated some of the things in my life. You want to be a flaming D Bag, go right ahead, I won't stop you. I ended up saying gak it, and went in because they were the closest shop near the school and I said feth it, and gathered up the courage to step back into a GW shop or two over a trip I had and was pleasantly surprised. I went in expecting to get into it with a knock down drag out with the blueshirts, and instead had a pretty good experience with the first of the stores enough that it softenedmy opinion of the stores themselves. Not to be a regular customer, but enough to know that the stuff is still as expensive as hell and in small doses it is palatable. Two different stores in two different locations. The owners were cool.

I actually gave them a nice write up and went back into the second one a couple more times. Not just because of GW themselves, but because the two completely different shop owners were cool. They didn't just have to rely on the blind antics like your showing here, they were good people and liked models and gaming.

**mattyrm**

Grot 6 wrote:

And for what its worth, I like the chaos cultists. I picked up two squads of them, and the crazy Nurgle champion from fantasy and modeled him up for 40K

There you go. So they contributed "something" positive right?

Anyway, yeah I seem to have wound you up, so I will happily apologise if you have been having a rough time, I genuinely don't mean to sound like a grade A douche, I was simply saying, it was a silly thing to say.

I do have a somewhat brusque manner, I always have done, but don't take it personally or think i'm a proper penis, because I'm not, and as I said, I agree with you on a great many points, I just think you should criticisze when its valid, and praise when its due. Fairs fair right?

Anyways, sorry if your pissed mate, Its not my intention to give a bloek gak if hes having a rough time.

**insaniak**

mattyrm wrote:
Is, entirely absurd, and it needs to be pointed out when grown men behave in a truly ridiculous matter.

Does it? I don't recall seeing that instruction in the 'How to act like a grown-up' manual.

I don't see why its insulting at all to say "mate, step back and think about what you are saying" is it?

No, that wouldn't be insulting.

Telling someone to 'act their age', however, is an entirely different kettle of squig.

**Azreal13**

mattyrm wrote:
Grot 6 wrote:

And for what its worth, I like the chaos cultists. I picked up two squads of them, and the crazy Nurgle champion from fantasy and modeled him up for 40K

There you go. So they contributed "something" positive right?

Anyway, yeah I seem to have wound you up, so I will happily apologise if you have been having a rough time, I genuinely don't mean to sound like a grade A douche, I was simply saying, it was a silly thing to say.

I do have a somewhat brusque manner, I always have done, but don't take it personally or think i'm a proper penis, because I'm not, and as I said, I agree with you on a great many points, I just think you should criticisze when its valid, and praise when its due. Fairs fair right?

Anyways, sorry if your pissed mate, Its not my intention to give a bloek gak if hes having a rough time.

You don't get to make that call mate!

**Doomsdave**

The better questions is:
"Is there a site where grown-ups are actually allowed to type curse-words?"

Oh, never mind, found it:
http://frothersunite.com/

**mattyrm**

Doomsdave wrote:
The better questions is:
"Is there a site where grown-ups are actually allowed to type curse-words?"

Oh, never mind, found it:
http://frothersunite.com/

I may have found a new place to hang out!

**warboss**

pities2004 wrote:
xxvaderxx wrote:
I mean, i am not going to take sides on this particular post, but it is clear that the majority of Dakka dakka has a negative opinion on GW, so my question is, is there a forum where it is the opposite?.

The only site i know of is www.games-workshop.com

There are apparently facebook pages for individual stores as well that are likely pruned clean of anything but positive views as well as a few GW specific blogs (mainly run by people whose work is published in White Dwarf) that are entirely positive.. and finally there's always the lonely gamer option of replying to their email newsletters...

**Azazelx**

Pacific wrote:
gossipmeng wrote:
It may look like there is a lot of hate for GW online, but it is really just these issues being brought up repeatedly. It is always like this online for anything though - when people are mad they feel as though they need to be heard. Happy people are too busy gaming, painting, and building to be bothered logging in and making "I love GW" posts.

If you look at other company's forums pages, or forums focused on them, you'll find that that's not the case. Infinity forums have a fair amount of gushing and use of nice-natured emoticons..

In many ways, a "feature" of official forums is that as well as a degree of casual fans, they also attract the biggest fans, superfans and sycophants. They also attract a huge proportion of trolls. This either results in something like the old GW boards or the Blizzard forums, or a heavily-moderated or heavy-handed moderation where not only troll posts, but those with more than a smidgeon of negativity or criticism are deleted - like the McVey forums.

Which is why I prefer to post somewhere like here. Fewer extremists from both camps while still allowing a good degree of discourse, discussion, and yes, healthy argument.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Boss GreenNutz wrote:
The majority is usually silent on most issues. Take the number of members look at the number who post negatively and do the math.

A ton of the "members" of any forum aren't actually active at any given time. There's plenty of forums I'm a "member" of but haven't visited in months or years, and may have never posted more than a couple of posts on.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Aerethan wrote:

A satisfied customer will tell a single person about their positive experience at a business.
A dissatisfied customer will tell at least 5 people about their negative experience at a business.
It's in our nature to spread the word about a bad experience, possibly as a subconscious effort to warn people away from the same experience.

I've certainly done that - and not as a subconscious thing. I'm pretty explicit when I do that. I'm not talking about doing it with GW product, either.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grot 6 wrote:

I posted a pretty legitimate question, you came back and continue to do so with condescending gak.

Those "New" models? they're gak. The new range of Finecast? yeah, You think they have improved? Feth no-that stuff is still as craptastic as ever?

As long as your entertained though, keep on keeping on. Great insults, by the way, all because I ask "What have they done that is positive lately?"

Which "new models" are gak? All of them? Because there's been quite a few of them, in, say, the last year. If you're writing them all off as "gak" then I'd suggest that the problem is with your own ability to be objective. I'm no fan of GW corportate or they way they behave/treat their customers, and I don't love every new release model, but to write them all off as "gak" is nothing but silly.

**jonolikespie**

On the 'new models are gak' front I'd like to just add something.

Yes the aesthetics of a model is entirely opinions and no one can outright say they are good or bad from that point of view. Having said that I think that objectively the models have gotten worse with the move to CAD designs rather than hand sculpting and the loss of some of GWs more talented sculptors.

Yes the Dark Vengance cultists are well detailed and (imo) aesthetically pleasing models but they also have some technical problems (the champion's epaulettes and the fact that half of the cultist are just mirror images with different details layered over the top). They aren't alone in that either, plenty of new models seem to be poorer quality from a technical point of view and just come off looking rushed.

Then there are the big kits with huge gaps along the joints because the kit hasn't been built to fit together properly (High Elf Phoenix's wings are big offenders there).