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This is in response to all the posts about how bad games workshop is. You know the ones "the hh books suck" ,"such and such a writer has ruined everything", "the prices suck and I am never playing again", "this codex is the so bad I am incapable of building an army to beat it so the whole system is broken"
Well I like games workshop. The background for both warhammer and 40k is fanrastic, giving us players plenty to discuss, build our own story lines around and smack talk about.
6th edition rocks. The introduction of fliers is a breath of fresh air in a system that had undergone several revisions without any major changes. I do understand that some people don't like change but I like the challenge.
Tau rock, don't have the army myself but I like the new direction. They are meant to be the fastest technological growing species and this codex shows it. Thingy magigy from the eldar once said they will one day eclipse even the eldars greatest triumphs.
The models are awesome.
A tactical marine costs you what? £2.50? A Lego person costs £2. Know what I prefer.

I agree with you that GW and 40K is a fine hobby, the fluff is good, the models look good, the game is fun!

What I can't accept for rather disappointed is how GW prices their items. The newest HH novel is now released in chapters. $3.99CAD per chapter per week for 12 week. Know any other publisher ever sell their books per chapter?

A Tactical Marine Costs £2.50, 10 will cost £25. 30 will cost £75. The problem with 40K is that it is an army base game. every unit/model will be miltuplied by at least 3. This makes every model price increase a big deal to your army totol cost.

I'm just disappointed that although 40K is a great game the price is limiting new players into the hobby or vertrans to try new stuff. If I want to field an all SpaceMarineInsideASpaceMarine army (6 model per squad, 3 units of heavy and 3 units on elites). I need 12 boxes of SMIASM at $94CAD. it will cost me $1128+ 13% tax to do so.

i have been a 40K lurker for a while. I really want to get into the hobby but my budget has no room for it at the moment. Plus there is no place with 100+ miles to play it around here. But I can dream lol

Out of curiosity, paulyf, have you played any other wargames?

1.Not all criticism is moaning, but yes there is a lot of moaning.
2. I for one can't stand fliers and I really dislike the chaos codex.
3. If they don't update SOB I'll most likely stop playing.
4. The corporate side of GW has chased people away from Warhammer and rightfully so.

That said, I really do enjoy the hobby and love the universe its set in. I think the HH novels are the best things GW has put out. This new SM codex has me genuinely excited. Over all, its a good game with a few flaws. I'm more of a hobbyist collecter/fluff reader myself.

paulyf wrote:
This is in response to all the posts about how bad games workshop is. You know the ones "the hh books suck" ,"such and such a writer has ruined everything", "the prices suck and I am never playing again", "this codex is the so bad I am incapableof building an army to beat it so the whole system is broken"
Well I like games workshop. The background for both warhammer and 40k is fanrastic, giving us players plenty to discuss, build our own story lines around and smack talk about.
6th edition rocks. The introduction of fliers is a breath of fresh air in a system that had undergone several revisions without any major changes. I do understand that some people don't like change but I like the challenge.
Tau rock, don't have the army myself but I like the new direction. They are meant to be the fastest technological growing species and this codex shows it. Thingy magigy from the eldar once said they will one day eclipse even the eldars greatest triumphs.
The models are awesome.
A tactical marine costs you what? £2.50? A Lego person costs £2. Know what I prefer.

Sit through the tau shooting phase then tell me how great they are.

Da krimson barun wrote:

paulyf wrote:
This is in response to all the posts about how bad games workshop is. You know the ones "the hh books suck" ,"such and such a writer has ruined everything", "the prices suck and I am never playing again", "this codex is the so bad I am incapableof building an army to beat it so the whole system is broken"
Well I like games workshop. The background for both warhammer and 40k is fanrastic, giving us players plenty to discuss, build our own story lines around and smack talk about.
6th edition rocks. The introduction of fliers is a breath of fresh air in a system that had undergone several revisions without any major changes. I do understand that some people don't like change but I like the challenge.
Tau rock, don't have the army myself but I like the new direction. They are meant to be the fastest technological growing species and this codex shows it. Thingy magigy from the eldar once said they will one day eclipse even the eldars greatest triumphs.
The models are awesome.
A tactical marine costs you what? £2.50? A Lego person costs £2. Know what I prefer.

Sit through the tau shooting phase then tell me how great they are.

Tau vs Tau games tend to be hilariously epic. IfyouknowwhatImean.

 Blacksails wrote:
Out of curiosity, paulyf, have you played any other wargames?

Not for many years. Used to dabble in flames of war and had a bash at warmachine(?) But finances and my gaming group dictated my path.
Oh and briefly starship troopers


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Da krimson barun wrote:

paulyf wrote:
This is in response to all the posts about how bad games workshop is. You know the ones "the hh books suck" ,"such and such a writer has ruined everything", "the prices suck and I am never playing again", "this codex is the so bad I am incapableof building an army to beat it so the whole system is broken"
Well I like games workshop. The background for both warhammer and 40k is fanrastic, giving us players plenty to discuss, build our own story lines around and smack talk about.
6th edition rocks. The introduction of fliers is a breath of fresh air in a system that had undergone several revisions without any major changes. I do understand that some people don't like change but I like the challenge.
Tau rock, don't have the army myself but I like the new direction. They are meant to be the fastest technological growing species and this codex shows it. Thingy magigy from the eldar once said they will one day eclipse even the eldars greatest triumphs.
The models are awesome.
A tactical marine costs you what? £2.50? A Lego person costs £2. Know what I prefer.

Sit through the tau shooting phase then tell me how great they are.

And it used to be necrons that cleaned up.
7th edition it will be someone else.

In my opinion, WFB and W40K are both great if you take them for what they are. They have the best IP in the wargaming industry by far, with excellent fluff and gorgeous models that are far beyond what any other manufacturer is currently producing in terms of customization. If you want to play either, you will have to pay a premium for access to the excellent models and fluff compared to other systems. For many people who can afford it, the price is worth the quality of the product (excluding Finecast, which is garbage and is a huge rip-off).

On the other hand, the game balance is sub-par at best, and attempting to play either game competitively is an exercise in frustration. Competitive 40k games are generally decided by list building first and luck second, with battlefield tactics falling to a distant third. WFB is better in that regard, but is still highly dependent on luck thanks to the wildly random magic phase and the steadfast rule.

The only other game system I have experience with is Warmachine/Hordes. It provides a very different experience from Games Workshop games, in that it is very focused on providing a balanced, competitive rule set that is highly tuned for tournament play. This comes at the expense of army customization, which is much more limited compared to Games Workshop games. Additionally, while Warmahordes models are beautiful in their own right, they do not quite meet the exceptional quality of GW kits (again excluding finecast) and lack the ease of personalization that comes with GW kits.

In the end, you have to figure out what it is you're looking for in your wargaming experience and pick the system that works best for you. I thought I preferred the competitive nature of Warmahordes, but I have recently found myself missing the relaxed feel of 40k games, and will be building up my Black Templars in the next few months.

It's amazing. Or maybe not.
I thought that this post would bring people out to be positive about the hobby and only focus on what they liked about the hobby.
But I forgot human nature. We all like a good moan or maybe I should have stated at the begining please only be positive.
Thank you for the positive feed back from those who left it.

As for positivity, I love this game, it has the most diverse fluff, I look at all the races and go "ok" they all feel like they belong, and none feel out of place.

I enjoy the tons of special characters, different armor types for each race, and that an Ork list can square off against an elegant Eldar list, and still look amazing on the table top.

Tyranids as a friend put it, look like they are "flowing" across the table top, and if you have a decently painted army, and someone else does too, the battles really come alive,

I've seen some mind blowing battle reports with awesome terrain, awesome armies, and it really doesn't get any better than that. I love the way each army looks quite different,

even among the Space Marine chapters, GW did a very good job of really making an army for anyone. The theme's are so varied for each army, and sub themes within themes, like craftworlds, ect.

I think people need to step back and remember these things sometimes when we get dissuaded by price, ect. Thanks for making this thread.

 painface98 wrote:
i have been a 40K lurker for a while. I really want to get into the hobby but my budget has no room for it at the moment. Plus there is no place with 100+ miles to play it around here. But I can dream lol

Feel for you dude.

paulyf wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Out of curiosity, paulyf, have you played any other wargames?

Not for many years. Used to dabble in flames of war and had a bash at warmachine(?) But finances and my gaming group dictated my path.
Oh and briefly starship troopers

Right, so you've at least seen what other rulesets are available. One of the biggest problems with 40k is the rule set/codex system/blatant external and internal balance issues. Compared to numerous alternatives that are becoming rapidly more popular, the 40k rules are becoming more apparently flawed.

I love the fluff, and most of the models are pretty awesome. Forge World is unhealthy for my finances because everything they do is outstanding. But I play the game for these things in spite of the rules, which are, well, very subpar.

I agree with you on the fluff/model aspect, but I disagree with your views on 6th. The flier rules are clunky and weird, and could have been implemented a dozen other ways that would have been more balanced, fun, cinematic, or whatever other word you'd like to use.

The prices are not ideal, to say the least. Time will tell how this will affect GW and 40k, but I think everyone agrees the current trend is largely unsustainable with the size of games GW wants us to play.

Always remember, its not necessarily moaning, or whining, or crying. Its can be legitimate critique and an intelligent discussion on a hobby we love and how the parent company seems to be actively working against the player base. Compare this to several other games with more active companies listening to feedback.

I like GW for making 40k and having such an awesome universe, and a lot of great models (and FW!), but they're certainly not doing anything above that to endear them to myself, or many others I imagine.

Personally I love GW too! The background to 40k is unparralelled. Sure they have some pricey price tags, but hey, it's a price I'm willing to pay. I love how the models are such high quality (no other wargame I can think of has models better than GW's), and how the books are now in hardback (gives them a special place on my bookshelf ). I love flyers and big powerful machines like the Riptide and the Wraithknight - in time both of these will even out in the game and will be easier to play against IMO.

And, as I've learned in the thread I made, never listen to people on the internet (unless they are a MOD, your friend, or have a decent amount of posts to be trustworthy (super irony there )). Regardless of wargame, people will always complain about companies/models/rules. Not worth to get bogged down yourself.

Keep up your positive attitude - I like broad minded people!

I don't like Games Workshop, I like the game.
And "sadly" I like it too much so I'll continue overpaying them for the models.
The rules might be badly written compared to other games I play, but I still love the game and continue to play it.

I just think that this game could become much better with another company owning it.
So I will play the game I love and continue to moan about the things that upset me.

A tactical marine costs you what? £2.50? A Lego person costs £2. Know what I prefer.

A single special edition Lego person is 4 euro.
A single Sternguard model is 8 euro.

paulyf wrote:
It's amazing. Or maybe not.
I thought that this post would bring people out to be positive about the hobby and only focus on what they liked about the hobby.
But I forgot human nature. We all like a good moan or maybe I should have stated at the begining please only be positive.
Thank you for the positive feed back from those who left it.

Well, the basic premise of your OP was that if you have a criticism, you're a whiner. Perhaps that's not what you meant, but that's how it came out, so people say, "Oh yeah?" And proceed to go contrary.
But your other premise is partially correct. There is too much negativity.

I really wish PP owned 40k. It would be so much better.

 sing your life wrote:
I really wish PP owned 40k. It would be so much better.

Amen to that!

I was a groaner. I quit because I felt cheated. The spirit and fun of my game was gone, everybody was so serious. But then I realized that it wasnt the rules, it was just thst those people weren't playing to have fun. This hobby is their escape (the specific people I'm talking about, not every competitive person). I didn't need an escape, it was just a hobby to me.
All it took was a simple conversation to get me back into the game. And all it took was me saying "guys I quit because I never had fun, everybody was too competitive for me to enjoy the game. Can we just have a fun game?" To finalize my coming back.

I love 40K.
I play Orks, Tyranids, Necrons and Space Wolves.

I've been gaming since 1987 when I used to buy my RPG books from Games Workshop, so I've seen GW change. I've studied marketing and while I find some of their decisions strange it's really not my problem, and I really don't understand why it upsets people so much.

Price? I moved to 40K because it was cheaper than the CMGs I was playing. Now I have my armies I don't NEED to buy anything, but I do just for the fun of it.

As for the models, personally I think they are fantastic. I've just finished painting a Tervigon. While my painting probably doesn't do it justice the model really is great.


So come on, let's shout about the happy side of GW gaming.
It's better to shout happiness than bitterness?

I love 40K, it's up there with Star Wars, Star Trek, Revelation Space, and the Mars Trilogy in my list of favourite sci-fi settings. I also like a lot of the models GW makes, and even some of what GW does as a company.

However, none of that prevents me from also holding negative opinions on a lot of what the company does, or on the direction their model aesthetic is going, or the state of GW's engagement with the community compared to when I started. Neither does discussing those opinions detract from my enjoyment of the aspects of the game I am fond of.

The OP is the latest in a long, loooong line of people to turn this issue into a ludicrous false dichotomy where the only options are to be either an embittered, angry, constantly outraged neckbeard, or be possessed of near-continual joy with "The Hobby" and a cult-like love of the company that makes it. Sorry OP, but most of us are perfectly capable of being an embittered neckbeard AND enjoying our own little slice of "The Hobby"

I love the 40k universe. I love the books, especially the HH series. I've been playing since 1988, when me and my brother randomly bought the RT book at some random mall book store. I've been hooked ever since. I paint and model as a cathartic hobby, and play a game at FTW (near Richmond, VA) when I can. That being said, the company itself does deserve some criticism. People at GW do read the forums sometimes and maybe, MAYBE they will change something for the better. You never know. I don't hate GW, I appreciate what they've given me through the years.

Ok, a bit upset at being labeled. So here is my response if this is what the OP ment to do. For one thing, if we don't agree with what you say, it's wrong? I can list why you are so wrong here.

paulyf wrote:
This is in response to all the posts about how bad games workshop is. You know the ones "the hh books suck" ,"such and such a writer has ruined everything", "the prices suck and I am never playing again", "this codex is the so bad I am incapable of building an army to beat it so the whole system is broken"

This looks like it can be a good discussion. I was thinking of starting something like this myself.

Well I like games workshop.

Good for you.

The background for both warhammer and 40k is fanrastic, giving us players plenty to discuss, build our own story lines around and smack talk about.

While yes it's good, lets see where they get it from. Nothing here is original. Take from human history, (then again, almost every movie does this) or basically taken stories from what others have already made. You can see that the Space Marines are basically Storm Troopers, IG is taken from Starship Troopers, as well as Tyranids. Necrons are basically James Cameron's Terminator. Eldar are basically JRR Tolkein Elves in space. Tau Japanese animation. Oh and basically it's the same story for over 25 years. Geeze battletech has been before 40K and look at the great stories they make and how the game has evolved but basically the same rules.

Does this make any of us wrong? NO. We all have our opinions. None of us are write or wrong.

6th edition rocks. The introduction of fliers is a breath of fresh air in a system that had undergone several revisions without any major changes. I do understand that some people don't like change but I like the challenge.

You are so wrong here. It's a boring game. I go, you go. Oh yeah that is fun. Fliers is a breath of fresh air, only if you have them. Having to wait for your codex to be updated is NOT FUN AT ALL. Funny how other game companies can update everything for a new edition. Again difference of opinion. Lot of people Love Chess. Others don't. Does that make them wrong and moaners as well?

Tau rock, don't have the army myself but I like the new direction. They are meant to be the fastest technological growing species and this codex shows it. Thingy magigy from the eldar once said they will one day eclipse even the eldars greatest triumphs.
The models are awesome.

Some models are good, others are meh.

A tactical marine costs you what? £2.50? A Lego person costs £2. Know what I prefer.

And your point is? At least with lego, they are fully coloured, and they are cut from the sprue. If we have to add a money value to it like you did, then how much should we be charged, for cutting it from the sprue, cleaning the mold lines, and painting it? Other toys or minitures, are FULLY PAINTED and ASSEMBLED for the same price.

Now while it may seem, I am being negative, or attacking you, I have done this, because, just because someone has an opinion, you label EVERYONE a MOANER. So if I am a Moaner, does this make you a Games Workshop Fan Boi? Here I thought we were going to have a good discussion but all I see is a one sided view. You place a label on someone who has a different opinion than you. That is why I made my little moaner comments to you.

The way you sounded, you are providing facts, instead of your opinion, and giving anyone a chance to counter your point.

Now that said, and you didn't mean it that way, I do agree with what YOU WERE TRYING to say. I almost agree with alot of your points. I just wanted to show you not everyone is a moaner and can have an opnion that differs from yours and it's not complaining or Moaning. We all have a brain. After all we are playing make believe with Dolls or plastic toy soldiers. We are giving them rules. So if someone is unhappy, then why not use your brain and get creative to make the rules work for you? Sadly we can use another codex to better represent your army. Do "counts as". Make your own rules. If that doesn't work or you can't because of playing pick up games with strangers, then use another codex. After all why does an Ork player have to use an Ork codex? Why couldn't he use the SM codex? I have seen on the internet, an Ork player use the SM codex very fluffily, and it look like it was going to be awesome. If a DA player can use the SW codex more flufflily why not? He is using a legal codex, and he is playing on how he thinks the DA can be played better, back in 5th edition.

Hell GW has even given us allies now in 6th edition. So we can use say the CSM codex, and then use allies to better represent an army. They can even be all SM say using a Tau or Eldar codex but "counts as" the SM for Eldar or Tau. This will give it more flavour and character.

If you can't think of doing that, then why not ask? Make a post on the forums of the internet and ask people's opinion on what to do. "We shouldn't do that, or have to do that" they will say. Then I say why are you still in the hobby and go onto something else where you don't have to do it.

It's one thing to say you are displeased, about how things are handled, but it's another to just bellyach about it and do nothing about it. Just saying a one or two sentence about how bad something is and not explain on how to correct it, is just moaning as the OP said. If some people can't take the time to explain themselves properly then maybe we do deserve what we get after all. Just because we are on the internet, and it's a ME ME ME society and everything has to be NOW, is no excuse just saying a one word sentence to complain about something. All that to me at least is just moaning and crying about nothing.

Don't like something? Then make the best with it. Can't do it, then ask and then try it. Don't just Mathhammer it out. If you are not having fun anymore, then maybe it's time to take a break from it. But just to go on over and over again, gets kind of tiring and now when ever I see a Tyranid, or CSM thread, it is not discussing about how bad it is, but just crying and complaining. I can see what the OP is trying to say,

Imperial Guard was not taken from starship troopers. The movie came out waaay after GW came out with the Guard. And if you are talking about the book, the Tau suits come closest. Of course GW borrowed ideas from other sources, everyone does. Its how you put those ideas together that make it original and intersting, which GW accomplished very well.

Actually space marines are a direct starship troopers steal. Elite infantry in power armor, organized in legions to defend man kind at all costs.

Tau are stolen from the skinnies in starship troopers.

Doesn't change how much I like the game.

The OP hates moaners so much he decided to start a thread that would be the biggest moaner bait ever.

Seems legit.

Its a hobby..its for fun...

I enjoy the hobby, and I'm really not all that fussy about the cost.
Yes the rules can be off at times, yes it can be expensive. But it's a solid game, and costs less than any of my other hobbies, and lasts longer for my money.
I used to race as a hobby, 20-30 thou every couple of years in cost, 4 races a year. 40K, 1-2k a year, 48+ games a year, there's a lot more for my investment there.
That and for me, it's more relaxing in the hobby part of it, and more social in the gaming aspect. Both of which are pluses for me.

To all those saying GW has the best/most gorgeous models; have you seen Corvus Belli's Infinity models? Those are just as nice or nicer.

 Musashi363 wrote:
Of course GW borrowed ideas from other sources, everyone does.

Not according to their testimony in the Chapterhouse lawsuit. Their designers totally make everything up from scratch, without any outside influence whatsoever.

Especially Sly Marbo. That guy is so original, it hurts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

paulyf wrote:
It's amazing. Or maybe not.
I thought that this post would bring people out to be positive about the hobby and only focus on what they liked about the hobby.
But I forgot human nature. We all like a good moan or maybe I should have stated at the begining please only be positive.
Thank you for the positive feed back from those who left it.

Of you were really after a positive thread, not dismissing those with complaints as 'moaners' would have been a good start.

If you wasn't to be positive, be positive.