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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/04 16:00:54
Subject: Centurions - early thoughts
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Archmagos Veneratus Extremis
Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)
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Here is the way I'm looking at it as far as grav-guns go:
2 Centurions with Grav-Cannons is supposedly 160pts.
5 Bikers w/2 Grav-guns looks like it will be 135pts.
Centurions have:
2 More shots
6-12 Bolter Shots depending on range
2+ Save
Take a HS slot
Bikes have:
12" Movement
Jink Saves
The ability to be troops & have scout
3-6 Bolter shots
1 More wound
I like the centurions, but even if I don't play White Scars I could see taking the bikers over the Centurions. Especially as the heavy slot is going to get crowded with the new auto-cannon anti-flyer tank, thunderfire, 65pt whirlwind, cheaper devastators.
That said here is how I look at the lascannon ones:
3 Centurions w/TL-Lascannon & ML - 240pts
6 Devastators w/4 Lascannon - 164
Centurions have:
Ability to take split fire or night fight
SnP
T5
2+ Save
6 St8/St9 Shots, 3 of which are TL
Devastators have:
1 More Lascannon shot
Are cheaper
In this case I think the Centurions win out. You are wounded 16% less of the time, save twice as often, produce the same number of lascannon hits but get two more missile hits and all for a 50% increase in cost over the devs. Oh, and you're mobile.
Just my thoughts. I think the assault ones are going to be pointless at this point.
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Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)
They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/04 16:20:49
Subject: Centurions - early thoughts
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
OK
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You're also forgetting the centurions can reroll wounds, which makes them not entirely situational.
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Argel Tal and Cyrene: Still a better love story than Twilight |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/04 16:53:49
Subject: Centurions - early thoughts
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Regular Dakkanaut
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The assault version is kind of meh. The Devastators have the potential to put out quite a bit of hurt.
The biggest problem I have with Centurions are Tau. Given how abundant Tau armies are right now, and their ability to flat out ignore cover, they will probably limit the usefulness of Centurions. Maybe once the Tau die down a bit.
I also have a sneaking suspicion Guard will have the same effect, with an AP2 barrage of some sort.
A plain 'ol Vindicator can also put the the hurt on them. Even in a squad of 3 Centurions, a dead hit will put 3 wounds on them that instakill. Don't fail your 4+ cover!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/04 16:55:22
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/04 17:24:34
Subject: Centurions - early thoughts
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Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
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you forgot that bikers that have Grav guns also have the ability to shoot bolters when out of range for Grav gun or it is less desirable to do so.
Can the sergeant get a combi-Grav gun too? because then it could be 9 Grav shots too.
If you ally in A DA PFG libby for both, I think the TL would help. For the Centurions it would give them Prescience and a 4++ invuln save if they keep within 3"
Same for the Bike squad if you put the libby on a bike. (plus you also get access to goodies like a black knight squad and Dark shroud)
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413th Lucius Exterminaton Legion- 4,000pts
Atalurnos Fleetbreaker's Akhelian Corps- 2500pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/04 17:59:24
Subject: Centurions - early thoughts
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Archmagos Veneratus Extremis
Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)
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Tiger9gamer wrote:
you forgot that bikers that have Grav guns also have the ability to shoot bolters when out of range for Grav gun or it is less desirable to do so.
Can the sergeant get a combi-Grav gun too? because then it could be 9 Grav shots too.
If you ally in A DA PFG libby for both, I think the TL would help. For the Centurions it would give them Prescience and a 4++ invuln save if they keep within 3"
Same for the Bike squad if you put the libby on a bike. (plus you also get access to goodies like a black knight squad and Dark shroud)
At 36" you're rarely going to be out of range for grav-guns but in range for bolters. So I didn't think it mattered much. I'd also heard the grav-gun was 2/4 and the cannon was 3/5. If it's 2/3 then that is another point in the favor of the centurion. And yeah, you can get a combi-grav if you choose based on the notes given so far.
I'm also not sold on spending the points to drop in the libby from the DA book. I'm borderline on the centurions and flat out against it on the bikes.
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Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)
They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/04 19:12:28
Subject: Re:Centurions - early thoughts
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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This may not be the best place to ask, but what are the rumored stats for the Grav Cannon? I know Grav guns wound based on the armor save, know the rifles reach 18 inches, but I can't remember the stats for the cannons.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/04 20:27:16
Subject: Re:Centurions - early thoughts
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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Super Newb wrote:This may not be the best place to ask, but what are the rumored stats for the Grav Cannon? I know Grav guns wound based on the armor save, know the rifles reach 18 inches, but I can't remember the stats for the cannons.
Salvo 3/5, range 24 on a model that's likely to either be relentless or SNP. Oh and gets to reroll the wound.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/04 20:27:28
Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/04 21:21:53
Subject: Centurions - early thoughts
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Indiana
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Also the regular grav guns are 2/3
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/04 21:22:36
Subject: Re:Centurions - early thoughts
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Stealthy Kroot Stalker
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Kain wrote:Super Newb wrote:This may not be the best place to ask, but what are the rumored stats for the Grav Cannon? I know Grav guns wound based on the armor save, know the rifles reach 18 inches, but I can't remember the stats for the cannons.
Salvo 3/5, range 24 on a model that's likely to either be relentless or SNP. Oh and gets to reroll the wound.
Rerolls only if the amp with the recall to be exact.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/04 21:22:51
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/04 21:25:15
Subject: Centurions - early thoughts
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Executing Exarch
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herpguy wrote:I don't understand why everybody is acting like 24" is so horrible.
You start 12" from the edge
You get to move 6" due to being relentless
You fire 24"
That is a 42" threat range.
Remember, they have FIVE shots each, plus the other weapon. That is crazy good.
The reason 24" is important is that the most ubiquitous S10 weapon...the demolisher cannon is 24" range.
The other problem being that you might have to go second. This means that you will have to deploy in the center if you want to shoot with them tun 1. Deploying in the center almost assures such an expensive fragile unit will die turn 1 before they can shoot. I am still keeping my mind open as if they get some way to redeploy or DS or any other movement options then they could be A+ units.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/04 23:08:48
Subject: Centurions - early thoughts
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Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot
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Could put the in a stormraven if you dont mind the ridiculous points cost.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/04 23:29:00
Subject: Centurions - early thoughts
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Battleship Captain
Oregon
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LC&ML might just be better MC killers thanks to the added range.
Both weapons wound Riptides on 2's and LC and Grav wound Wraith's on 3's.
Also, plasma can handle that AP2 niche just fine.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/04 23:39:48
Subject: Centurions - early thoughts
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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minigun762 wrote:LC& ML might just be better MC killers thanks to the added range.
Both weapons wound Riptides on 2's and LC and Grav wound Wraith's on 3's.
Also, plasma can handle that AP2 niche just fine.
This.
If you wanna grav bomb a riptide then use sternguard with combi-gravs in a drop pod. Centurions will be better with lascannons and tank hunters IMO.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/04 23:50:34
Subject: Centurions - early thoughts
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Boosting Space Marine Biker
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hyv3mynd wrote: minigun762 wrote:LC& ML might just be better MC killers thanks to the added range.
Both weapons wound Riptides on 2's and LC and Grav wound Wraith's on 3's.
Also, plasma can handle that AP2 niche just fine.
This.
If you wanna grav bomb a riptide then use sternguard with combi-gravs in a drop pod. Centurions will be better with lascannons and tank hunters IMO.
My thoughts exactly
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10-15K (way too many to point up)
4K |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/05 00:04:20
Subject: Centurions - early thoughts
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Executing Exarch
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hyv3mynd wrote: minigun762 wrote:LC& ML might just be better MC killers thanks to the added range.
Both weapons wound Riptides on 2's and LC and Grav wound Wraith's on 3's.
Also, plasma can handle that AP2 niche just fine.
This.
If you wanna grav bomb a riptide then use sternguard with combi-gravs in a drop pod. Centurions will be better with lascannons and tank hunters IMO.
There are a few things wrong with these statements. First that tank hunter will have any effect on a riptide. Riptides are MC which tank hunter has no effect on. Next is combi-grav weapons on sternguard will be good. These are salvo weapons, this means if you move (ie DS in a DP) you will get half the range and the second shots profile (the really small number of shots). Then there is the fact you are counting on 3 LC and 3 ML against a riptide with a 2+/5++ (or 3++)...2 (or 1.2) wounds a turn on average. The riptide will put more wounds on the centurions than they put on him. That configuration is pretty good against vehicles though. The strength of the grav guns is the rate of fire; 3 grav cannons alone against a riptide puts 6.5 (or 3.2) wounds on average. The problem being delivery.
An interesting aside note is that 3 grav cannons should average 5 glances on any vehicle (assuming the immobile results stack for extra HP damage like normal).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/05 00:50:36
Subject: Centurions - early thoughts
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I never said tank hunter hurts riptides. I said tank hunter centurions would be superior to grav cannon builds.
Salvo range reduction doesn't matter if you drop from a pod and disembark 6". A full combi unit will still get 20 shots that hit on 3+ and wound on 2+ against riptides.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/05 01:13:13
Subject: Centurions - early thoughts
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Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
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hyv3mynd wrote:I never said tank hunter hurts riptides. I said tank hunter centurions would be superior to grav cannon builds.
Salvo range reduction doesn't matter if you drop from a pod and disembark 6". A full combi unit will still get 20 shots that hit on 3+ and wound on 2+ against riptides.
Technically that can be accomplished by using Hellfire rounds for free. The AP2 is what matters, and IMO, plasma would do just as well. Also, at the same time, Combi weapons on Sternguard will likely decrease in use as the points are rumored to go up to 10 per combi weapon.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/05 01:13:38
::1750:: Deathwatch |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/05 01:14:00
Subject: Centurions - early thoughts
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Executing Exarch
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hyv3mynd wrote:I never said tank hunter hurts riptides. I said tank hunter centurions would be superior to grav cannon builds.
Salvo range reduction doesn't matter if you drop from a pod and disembark 6". A full combi unit will still get 20 shots that hit on 3+ and wound on 2+ against riptides.
Okay no problem then. Then you just meant devastator centurions.
It is a 9" range then. This is a distance that can easily be bubble wrapped. It is also 100 pts just for the combi weapons. Not to mention that it is barely better than plasma at that point.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/05 01:15:24
Subject: Centurions - early thoughts
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Daemonic Dreadnought
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Centurions should do great against Tau since most Tau lists do a hard spam of S7 and/or riptides. S7 missile spam still wounds on a 2+, but w2 and a 2+ is pretty good resilience.
The combos I see is DA divination with the 4++ force field or Tau commander in the unit shenanigans.
Deamon armies should be happy.
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Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/05 09:41:51
Subject: Centurions - early thoughts
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Stealthy Grot Snipa
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There's a guy who apparently already has the codex who put it all out on reddit. If he's not making stuff up, and those are the real rules, they are absolutely amazing.
Especially some of the combos you can pull off. Tigurius for almost-guaranteed invisibility, a Tau buff-commander, and the UM chapter trait that allows them to re-roll misses on snap-fire.
With gravcannons and hurricane bolters, they can also threaten absolutely anything in the game.
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"The Emporer is a rouge trader."
- Charlie Chaplain. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/05 09:58:45
Subject: Centurions - early thoughts
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Foxy Wildborne
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Thud wrote:There's a guy who apparently already has the codex who put it all out on reddit. If he's not making stuff up, and those are the real rules, they are absolutely amazing.
There's really no more room for making stuff up at this point, we've had pretty much the entire Codex spoiled more than a week ago. Apart from a few point cost details, anyone who's been paying attention knows everything there is to know.
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The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/05 17:06:46
Subject: Re:Centurions - early thoughts
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Fixture of Dakka
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Do other people's Riptide units not feature a 4+ majority armor save?
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"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/05 18:03:07
Subject: Centurions - early thoughts
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Shas'la with Pulse Carbine
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Most users consider taking the drones with a riptide to be a bad idea as they can cause leadership tests when they die. Also you don't use majority armor saves. Armor saves are done on a per model basis just like ID.
-Fire-
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/05 18:52:08
Subject: Centurions - early thoughts
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Archmagos Veneratus Extremis
Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)
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He's talking about for wounding with a grav weapon.
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Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)
They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/05 19:05:47
Subject: Re:Centurions - early thoughts
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Norn Queen
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3 Centurions w/TL-Lascannon & ML - 240pts
6 Devastators w/4 Lascannon - 164
Centurions have:
Ability to take split fire or night fight
SnP
T5
2+ Save
6 St8/St9 Shots, 3 of which are TL
Devastators have:
1 More Lascannon shot
Are cheaper
One thing to note though is that Devs have ablative wounds. If you take a squad of 6, as above, you can suffer two wounds before the shooting output of the squad drops. Its still 100% (assuming you pass morale) if two wounds are suffered.
With Cents, losing one, reduces your firepower by 33%. Lose another and they are very much hampered.
T5 and 2+ is nice but if an opponent wants to really wipe them out, seeing as they are a threat, you might well find plasma or drop podding melta coming your way. T5 and 2+ dosent look so good at that point.
Devs still have as good BS, 3+ save (and should be in cover if possible), are cheaper, can get ablative wounds and put out as much firepower (albeit without T/L).
Im not convinced its as cut and dried in the Cents favour on paper.
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Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
"Feelin' goods, good enough". |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/05 19:17:02
Subject: Centurions - early thoughts
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Also worth noting is with SnP they cannot run. If you kit them out with grav cannons and don't buy them a land raider or storm raven, they can be kited extremely easily.
Tau and eldar will have no problem keeping them 31" away and Daemons won't care if they get close.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/05 20:32:09
Subject: Centurions - early thoughts
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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FirePainter wrote:Most users consider taking the drones with a riptide to be a bad idea as they can cause leadership tests when they die. Also you don't use majority armor saves. Armor saves are done on a per model basis just like ID.
-Fire-
Plus they are expensive as hell.
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