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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/06 06:33:53
Subject: What armies are best at close combat?
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Ferocious Black Templar Castellan
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Wilytank wrote: AlmightyWalrus wrote: Wilytank wrote:Thud wrote:1. Stupid Necrons with their stupid mindshackle scarabs.
Yes, please tell us how that stops a horde from ripping the Lord's squad apart.
MSS on enemy Character, Wraiths kill the living crap out of the enemy unit.
...Don't take the character? Tyranids don't have them and Orks and Daemons are optional. I can see a unit of Plague Bearers with the 2+ poison banner beating out Canoptek Wraiths.
You're probably not going to catch Wraiths with Infantry unless the Necron player lets you. 'Nid swarms won't do that much to Wraiths and if you want to get an MC in there to ID the Wraiths you have to get past the MSS and Whip Coils. Not taking a Character just frees the Lord up to punch the squad down instead.
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For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/06 10:54:36
Subject: What armies are best at close combat?
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Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot
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Slaanesh horde list would be my number 1 choice. Running boost to get close, and fleet to help run and charge. Physic powers that can move enemy units or nullify overwatch. Rending on everything, Loci that can re-roll all hits or modify inititive to 10. These can be pretty powerful combinations
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~ Krieg 6k
~ Necrons 2.5k
~ Space Wolves 5K
~ :Khorne CSM 2k
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/06 12:27:27
Subject: What armies are best at close combat?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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A bit funny, but more sad, that the army which is supposed to be fully focused on hand to hand with an associated god, is barely mentioned.
RIP Worldeaters.
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CSM Undivided
CSM Khorne |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/06 12:29:25
Subject: What armies are best at close combat?
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Evasive Pleasureseeker
Lost in a blizzard, somewhere near Toronto
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DOOMONYOU wrote:Slaanesh horde list would be my number 1 choice. Running boost to get close, and fleet to help run and charge. Physic powers that can move enemy units or nullify overwatch. Rending on everything, Loci that can re-roll all hits or modify inititive to 10. These can be pretty powerful combinations
Add in the Grimorie plus a few levels of Divination and you can even build a rather obnoxious Deathstar with a 2++ save!
Slaaneshii Challenge Heralds are pretty damn dirty too. Not quite MSS's level of dickery, but still amazingly annoying since they'll have ap2 and a boatload of attacks to back it up with. (alongside re-roll misses just for added grief!)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/06 17:33:37
Subject: What armies are best at close combat?
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Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets
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Ailaros wrote:I'd agree that orks aren't bad at CC per se, but they're not good. Same with tyranid. 6th ed. really hates both CC and hordes, and both tyranid and orks suffer from being both.
I actually think CSM is a good CC army. They've got tons of options that do nothing but close combat, and they've got lots of regular options which are the same as their SM equivalents, but better in CC. Plus, you can give anything MoK for +1 A, FC, and "fleet", or MoS for +1I and FNP.
More importantly, there is little that's actually bad in CC. Obliterators are shooters, but they're still a paladin with a powerfist in CC. And they can take MoK. Their devestators can take BP+ CCW, and MoK, and that includes the guys with the heavy weapons. Their shootiest units are better in CC than most units in the game. Hell, even their flier attacks things in close combat.
They've got tons of options that do Poorly in close combat. They'll be more expensive and twice as useless with what you suggest, not to mention mathhammer shows they'll likely be beaten out by a simple, competent army list. Maybe you could beat some poor lists with those options, but that's not the mark of a good unit.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/06 17:44:36
Subject: What armies are best at close combat?
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
The best State-Texas
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Ailaros wrote:I'd agree that orks aren't bad at CC per se, but they're not good. Same with tyranid. 6th ed. really hates both CC and hordes, and both tyranid and orks suffer from being both.
I actually think CSM is a good CC army. They've got tons of options that do nothing but close combat, and they've got lots of regular options which are the same as their SM equivalents, but better in CC. Plus, you can give anything MoK for +1 A, FC, and "fleet", or MoS for +1I and FNP.
More importantly, there is little that's actually bad in CC. Obliterators are shooters, but they're still a paladin with a powerfist in CC. And they can take MoK. Their devestators can take BP+ CCW, and MoK, and that includes the guys with the heavy weapons. Their shootiest units are better in CC than most units in the game. Hell, even their flier attacks things in close combat.
I don't see how you can possible compare Oblits to Paladins, they are so fundamentally different. Oblits are most definitely not Paladins in CC, except they share T and W. Paladins have better WS, Can strike at I, have ASTKNF, in addition to a myriad of other special rules that can come into play in CC. That is a really poor comparison. 2W and T4, does not a Paladin make.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/08 03:35:17
Subject: What armies are best at close combat?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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If you could get them into CC, the old Black Templars were actually really good in close combat. Power weapons all around that couldn't be challenged out, righteous zeal to get closer, rage for +2A on charge, and furious charge was horribly nasty in my experience. They were a very fluffy army that still could hold up in CC in 6th vs most others.
New codex though...I just don't see them being very good at CC at all now.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/08 04:11:32
Subject: What armies are best at close combat?
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Gargantuan Gargant
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As much as I'd like to say Orks, they're more of a mid to upper-middle tier close combat army rather than being top tier. Sadly 6th has nerfed slugga boyz both in trukks and footslogging so it's mainly dakka-mobz of shoota boyz and lootas rather than a roaring horde of choppa-wielding maniacs. It's still really only Biker Nobz, MegaNobz and Warbosses that are still good close combat units for their cost rather than an army-wide thing.
That being said I'd have to give it to either Chaos Daemons or Tyranids. Both of them have juicy monstrous creatures with ample access to Biomancy to give them the resilience and edge to make it into and destroy units in close combat. They both also have widely available close combat upgrades that are dirt cheap on some units (toxin sacs for Nids and AP2 weapons on characters for Daemons). They both also have the mobility necessary to get stuck in fast enough and typically hammer home hard enough that once that happens it's normally game for the Nid/Daemons if they enough charges in.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/15 10:51:35
Subject: Re:What armies are best at close combat?
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Dakka Veteran
In da middle of da WAAAGH! Australia.
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I'd say that one of the craziest CC units would have to be death company with CCW & Pistols (and maybe a couple of special CCW's) with a chaplain attached.
That's 5 I4 WS4 S5 rerollable hits & rerollable wounds on the charge PER death company.
That's a heck of a lot of strong attacks, and then you have the chaplain (admittedly with the crappy blunt wacky eagle stick)
I don't see too much coming out of that except people with high initiative, and very good invuln's (take PW's or TH's to ignore armour)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/16 10:05:34
Subject: What armies are best at close combat?
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Utilizing Careful Highlighting
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CSM probably have the widest variety of melee units. Not to say they're all any good at it but melee vehicles, monsters, jump troops, slow troops, fast, cheap, expensive and everything in between.
Marines get their decked out leaders but the tacs are all lackluster. T/S termites are expensive but good.
B/D Angels and space wolves get their specialized melee units but the T/S termies still hang up top.
Necrons have a few tough units, not so much because they so a lot of damage but because they're hard to kill.
Without going into everyone's armies, I'd say that everybody but tau and IG can throw something nasty on the table that'll kill dudes. But it's the resilient units that make a difference. This is a shooting edition, and being super Killy isn't as important as weathering the fire to get into melee in the first place.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/16 19:43:29
Subject: What armies are best at close combat?
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Hooded Inquisitorial Interrogator
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Death company with the expensive upgrades would probably be the nastiest out there if they weren't so prohibitively expensive. Not many units that that many attacks with those weapon upgrades.
For things that I've been impressed with. Death Cult Assassins from GK or SoB backed up by a couple of crusaders make an amazing assult unit. Mace + axe for weapon choices can chew through almost anything in notime. Add someone like Uriah to the mix for FNP and the extra attack per figure and it becomes disturbing.
problem is the same on for any hand to hand unit... gotta get past all the pulse rifles before you get to the juicy communist-space-fish meat.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/16 19:55:03
Subject: What armies are best at close combat?
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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CSM have better HTH options than BA I think right now. This will probably change when the BA get their 6th codex.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/16 20:45:01
Subject: What armies are best at close combat?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Order is Chaos Demons that are beasts/cav -> Other beasts/cav -> non-beasts/cav.
It's not even army specific anymore, your unit type matters the most due to re-rolls and ignoring terrain. If you can't do those then you probably should just include shooting units.
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Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
32,000, 19,000, Renegades - 10,000 , 7,500, |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/16 21:12:56
Subject: What armies are best at close combat?
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Hooded Inquisitorial Interrogator
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I wonder what would be the best close combat unit if points are not in the equation. One of the reasons I mentioned the death company is because they can get 27 figs in the unit. Thats a lot of wounds in one unit and every one of them can have power fists.
note: Of course that unit, without characters would be in the 1200 point range (1600 with jump packs, because... why not at this point). Not competitive in any way, but a very cool unit in hand to hand.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/17 00:49:40
Subject: What armies are best at close combat?
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Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon
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war wrote:I wonder what would be the best close combat unit if points are not in the equation. One of the reasons I mentioned the death company is because they can get 27 figs in the unit. Thats a lot of wounds in one unit and every one of them can have power fists.
note: Of course that unit, without characters would be in the 1200 point range (1600 with jump packs, because... why not at this point). Not competitive in any way, but a very cool unit in hand to hand.
You could get 133 Seekers for that price, lol. They'd absolutely facestomp 27 Death Company like they weren't there.
If you're evaluating the "best Close Combat unit" per point, and only evaluating based on close combat prowess, I think the answer is obviously Seekers of Slaanesh. If it has a toughness value, they will kill it. 12 points per model, 4 WS5 rending attacks on the charge. I'm not sure there is anything more deadly in the game (per point). Once you stack in the various gifts and the challenges shennagians; it's insane. Daemonettes are the same thing, basically, but slower (and still fast).
Both units are made of glass though, and easy to shoot to death. That said, I've killed some insane things with 90 point Daemonette units (at least ten Riptides now, Wraith Knights, Tervigons, the Emporer's Champion, on and on and on)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/17 02:05:45
Subject: What armies are best at close combat?
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Hooded Inquisitorial Interrogator
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Yea, I was thinking of the best hand to hand unit regardless of the point cost. Noone would actually take that unit outside of an Apoc. battle or something.
Max unit size on a seeker unit is 20 right?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/17 02:22:34
Subject: What armies are best at close combat?
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Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon
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war wrote:Yea, I was thinking of the best hand to hand unit regardless of the point cost. Noone would actually take that unit outside of an Apoc. battle or something.
Max unit size on a seeker unit is 20 right?
Haha yeah, maxes out at 20. If you're running 20 you'll usually have a Herald on a Steed with the Moves through Cover Locus (at a minimum). That's a solid unit, hits like a bag of hammers, dies like a bag of puppies.
I think the Slaanesh Rush build with 40 Seekers, 2-3 Heralds, 20 Dogs with a Herald, and 9 Fiends is a pretty solid MTO assault build. Throw in a couple blobs of Daemonettes, some Horror Squads, and Fateweaver (because you have to), and you're basically doing what Janthkin does (and won the Anime Open with). Fast and in your face.
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