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 TheCadreofFi'rios wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:

 Carnage43 wrote:
Because it's 4 god damned Riptides played by a good player. S8 AP2 large blast that ignore cover with some markerlight support allows you to remove swaths of your opponents army at a time.

Jesus Christ how horrifying, why does this even exist?

Because the Tau got tired of getting their blue butts kicked all throughout 5e and early 6e.

Too true. Too true.

So when do my BA get revenge on the GK and Necrons for *immediately* stealing our thunder in 5th? Yeah, that's what I thought, not happening.

I'm wondering how long this is going to last....

You're probably good past the marine codex. Maybe Orks or Tyranids could cause problems.

 TheCadreofFi'rios wrote:
I'm wondering how long this is going to last....

I honestly dont have a huge issue with Tau, my Elysians have handled them pretty well (helps I have 8 flyers, Tau players can only intercept so much) but with Marines I utilize a Drop Pod army that has proven VERY effective against alot of Tau armies I have faced, including Riptide spam. In the old book I ran Pedro with x30 Sternguard and just used the poisoned rounds to drop one riptide at a time (usually after slaughting his fire warriors first). People just need to learn how to fight the army.

Now the "Taudar" for example is just a nasty combo that is very powerful, especially since their physic power shinanigans. It is very tough to beat especially in the hands of a skilled player. I dont neccesarily agree with them being Battle Brothers but instead of getting mad about it, many of you need to check on the threads (which there are many) about how to deal with Tau or even make one on defeating the Taudar.

 Kain wrote:

 Brymm wrote:
This brings some interesting questions to the table: Can you simply ignore Riptides while focusing on their scoring units(my usual plan)?
Answer: NO! 4 of them with that IC Tide can mop you up if ignored, and apparently does.

How do we get around this? Moral checks? Instant death? Massed AP2 shooting? Assault? Where do we go from here?

The new Space Marine book seems to have the tools to kill riptides in Grav weaponry.

Now if only they could get there through the hellstorm of Riptide pieplate and Missile spam Broadside fire.

Seriously, Missilespam broadsides are scary, short of AV14, there's damn near nothing that survives a round of shooting from them, and they have the range to make you take multiple rounds. Oh and it's on two wound T5 2+ models that can easily get cover or invulnerable saves. And if I remember right, Broadsides can get stims..

Broadsides are T4. Meltaguns and Lascannons will ID them without a cover/invulnerable save.

Does anyone know any of these top players lists? I'm trying to get my Tau army into a competitive worthy list, and am still picking up some models, but so far I've had some trouble against the Space Wolves opponent I usually play.

Also, is it worth giving shield generators to bsides? I had some of mine get ID'd and it was painful =( I did have my drones slightly offside so my bsides ended up closes...

Noctem wrote:
Does anyone know any of these top players lists? I'm trying to get my Tau army into a competitive worthy list, and am still picking up some models, but so far I've had some trouble against the Space Wolves opponent I usually play.

Also, is it worth giving shield generators to bsides? I had some of mine get ID'd and it was painful =( I did have my drones slightly offside so my bsides ended up closes...

Don't give them shield generators, just put them in cover, so they get cover saves.

 gmaleron wrote:
I dont neccesarily agree with them being Battle Brothers but instead of getting mad about it, many of you need to check on the threads (which there are many) about how to deal with Tau or even make one on defeating the Taudar.

This thread was created with the intentions of identifying why taudar is good, and than coming up with ways to beat it. Would you please direct me to some of the threads that you are mentioning?

 Coyote81 wrote:

Noctem wrote:
Does anyone know any of these top players lists? I'm trying to get my Tau army into a competitive worthy list, and am still picking up some models, but so far I've had some trouble against the Space Wolves opponent I usually play.

Also, is it worth giving shield generators to bsides? I had some of mine get ID'd and it was painful =( I did have my drones slightly offside so my bsides ended up closes...

Don't give them shield generators, just put them in cover, so they get cover saves.

Ah, can't believe I didn't think of that lol... thanks!

Yes, I did make a mistake. Access to supplement rules can be difficult. The idea is right, just not sure how it's pulled off.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok guys, here is the NOVA Open winning list demonstrating what I was talking about: Justin Cook, Tau/Tau

Primary detachment (farsight enclaves)

Hq

farsight
165

O’vesa
305

Troops:

3 crisis suits, bonding knifex3, missile podx3
114

10 kroot
60

1 crisis suit, missile pod, bonding knife
38

1 crisis suit, missile pod, bonding knife
38

Elites:

riptide, ion accelerator, twin linked smart missile system, early warning override
190

riptide, ion accelerator, twin linked smart missile system, early warning override, positional relay
195

riptide, heavy burst cannon, twin linked smart missile system, velocity tracker, target lock, 2 shielded missile drones, talisman of arthas moloch
280

Heavy support

skyray, smart missile system, blacksun filter
116

skyray, smart missile system, blacksun filter
116

Allied detachment (codex tau)

Hq:
commander, command and control node, multispectrum sensor suite, iridium armor, puretide chip, onager gauntlet, vectored retrothrusters, neuroweb system jammer
172

Troops:

10 kroot
60

1849pts.

 hippesthippo wrote:
Yes, I did make a mistake. Access to supplement rules can be difficult. The idea is right, just not sure how it's pulled off.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok guys, here is the NOVA Open winning list demonstrating what I was talking about: Justin Cook, Tau/Tau

Primary detachment (farsight enclaves)

Hq

farsight
165

O’vesa
305

Troops:

3 crisis suits, bonding knifex3, missile podx3
114

10 kroot
60

1 crisis suit, missile pod, bonding knife
38

1 crisis suit, missile pod, bonding knife
38

Elites:

riptide, ion accelerator, twin linked smart missile system, early warning override
190

riptide, ion accelerator, twin linked smart missile system, early warning override, positional relay
195

riptide, heavy burst cannon, twin linked smart missile system, velocity tracker, target lock, 2 shielded missile drones, talisman of arthas moloch
280

Heavy support

skyray, smart missile system, blacksun filter
116

skyray, smart missile system, blacksun filter
116

Allied detachment (codex tau)

Hq:
commander, command and control node, multispectrum sensor suite, iridium armor, puretide chip, onager gauntlet, vectored retrothrusters, neuroweb system jammer
172

Troops:

10 kroot
60

1849pts.

I still don't understand why you need blacksun filters on sky rays, even though they are cheap. So do those two crisis suits only have 1 weapon each? And no AA? I'm amazed he pulled of so many wins with this list.

Two Skyrays and riptides with velocity trackers not enough AA for you?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Brymm wrote:
This brings some interesting questions to the table: Can you simply ignore Riptides while focusing on their scoring units(my usual plan)?
Answer: NO! 4 of them with that IC Tide can mop you up if ignored, and apparently does.

How do we get around this? Moral checks? Instant death? Massed AP2 shooting? Assault? Where do we go from here?

The new Space Marine book seems to have the tools to kill riptides in Grav weaponry.

Now if only they could get there through the hellstorm of Riptide pieplate and Missile spam Broadside fire.

Seriously, Missilespam broadsides are scary, short of AV14, there's damn near nothing that survives a round of shooting from them, and they have the range to make you take multiple rounds. Oh and it's on two wound T5 2+ models that can easily get cover or invulnerable saves. And if I remember right, Broadsides can get stims..

Broadsides are T4. Meltaguns and Lascannons will ID them without a cover/invulnerable save.

Huh? They are?

Still, some of the most frightful units in terms of dakka per point.

Dude with the Allied Cmdr, Ovesa, Farsight and the other Riptide in one unit with the shield drones. The only thing you have to shoot at it is 2 skyrays, 2 single riptides and the ripstar. I'm sure the suits stay in reserves and deepstrike to safe locations and try to get objectives late game. Taking naked suits is just dumb, and you never know. The single mpod is probably a transcription error somewhere down the line.

 Kain wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Brymm wrote:
This brings some interesting questions to the table: Can you simply ignore Riptides while focusing on their scoring units(my usual plan)?
Answer: NO! 4 of them with that IC Tide can mop you up if ignored, and apparently does.

How do we get around this? Moral checks? Instant death? Massed AP2 shooting? Assault? Where do we go from here?

The new Space Marine book seems to have the tools to kill riptides in Grav weaponry.

Now if only they could get there through the hellstorm of Riptide pieplate and Missile spam Broadside fire.

Seriously, Missilespam broadsides are scary, short of AV14, there's damn near nothing that survives a round of shooting from them, and they have the range to make you take multiple rounds. Oh and it's on two wound T5 2+ models that can easily get cover or invulnerable saves. And if I remember right, Broadsides can get stims..

Broadsides are T4. Meltaguns and Lascannons will ID them without a cover/invulnerable save.

Huh? They are?

Still, some of the most frightful units in terms of dakka per point.

Sounds like someone has been cheated

 hippesthippo wrote:
You can take both O'Vesa and another Farsight Riptide with the medallion in an allied detachment..

Actually, you cannot.

The Ebook was updated shortly after launch, to take O'Vesa you must take Farsight and he must be your Warlord. So, anyone that is taking O'Vesa must have Farsight as their Warlord and therefore Farsight Enclaves must be their Primary Detatchement. Anyone that is allying in two Riptides has an illegal list.


I would know, It WAS my plan!



Tau and Eldar are the newest Codex in the neww edition, of course they are dominating the tournament scene, this is nothing new. In three months we will have a thread talking about how no one can believe how over he top the new Space Marine dex is and its a sure sign of GW's demise and incompetence. Repeat ever three months by replacing the offender with the newest dex.

Just look at how many people played Tau as either Primary or as Allies, significantly more than any other army short of Eldar or Daemons.

Read the whole thread.

Have you ever played against 3 Riptides? They're the reason why CC elements are still needed in 6th ed. You can't hurt them with shooting nor can you ignore them.

I played a game last weekend against 3 Riptides and 3 Hammerheads with submunition. They killed very little even though I was puppetmastering a Riptide every turn.

Eldar waveserpents are annoying, but CC units kill them too.

Remember when we all said mech was dead? Well, in a few months I think CC is going to be strong again and will balance out against shooting. We've all constricted ourselves to shooting-only lists which, unsurprisingly, are outgunned by the two newest pure shooting armies.


My tyranids have yet to lose to either army.

I see a lot of people going on about how good broadsides are, but with their weakness to lascannon type shots or taking LD tests, they suffer from lack of durability.

Personally I run crisis teams with double missile pods and skyfire teamed up with an Iridium armor commander with similar loadout + stims/puretide chip and shield drones. The IC at the front allows me to use the 2+ vs small arms and the 4++ on the drones vs AP2. Their mobility adds a little extra threat range to the missile shots, and the unit has better durability than a similarly equipped broadside team.

 hippesthippo wrote:
Read the whole thread.

I did and was clarifying your mistake. I do see where you said you made a mistake, but it was not apparent what you were saying, I was reiterating and making it clear as I do own and have access to the supplement.

Thaylen, most marine players in my area won't pony up for lascannons. They want the missile launcher and plasma to do all the work.

Lanlaorn wrote:
Two Skyrays and riptides with velocity trackers not enough AA for you?

Skyrays shoot only 6 missiles each during the entire game, and only 1 tide had a VT
A list with ~3 fliers would have given it a hard time.


And seriously, broadsides are your issue? they might do alot of damage, but its still just a T4 model. shoot ID on it.
Shield drones? gun them done first (mere 4+ save) then go after the broadsides with S8+ AP1-2 for quick kills


Riptides? tie them in combat. dont expect to gun down the biggest thing the "we can only shoot, we might as well excel at it" throws at you.
And kill the markerlights first, then it wont ignore cover any more.


Also, for the guy who said that tau and eldar are overpowered compared to DA and CSM, I think the problem is in DA and CSM, as the new SM seems to be in line with tau/eldar power, and also makes a mockery of DA and CSM.

I seriously doubt the new marine book is going to stand up to the Tau and Eldar. None of the leaks sound promising given what I've seen the Tau and Eldar do to MEQ lists.

The term I used was undercosted. Arguably the same as overpowered, but not quite. It's not the effects of Eldar or Tau I have a problem with, its what they pay for them.

Martel732 wrote:
I seriously doubt the new marine book is going to stand up to the Tau and Eldar. None of the leaks sound promising given what I've seen the Tau and Eldar do to MEQ lists.

This.

Tau and eldar have meta changing units and rules. Marines are getting cheaper and a few toys but nothing monumental. However they're battle brothers with both eldar and tau so there will probably be some new hybrid lists which will be good.

But why hybridize Tau or Eldar with marines when you can have Tau/Eldar?

Centurions aren't terrible and you can add ATSKNF characters to allied units. Tugurius alone is worth it.

ATSKNF is very overrated in 6th edition. It's not even that much of an advantage as my models are *dying* without taking morale tests. ATSKNF was great when marines were killed slowly, but now they just die wholesale.

I guess its still good for blobs. It's bad when a marine rule is better for other lists than the actual marines.

If people stopped trying to play elite armies, tau would lose.

But no, we only see elite army lists, no hordes, no high av vehices, just MC's and elite stuff.

No wonder people are losing to tau.

Marines don't have much of a choice in that matter. I don't use the BA "elite" stuff, but the basic troopers are expensive enough that the Tau can deal pretty easily.

 juraigamer wrote:
If people stopped trying to play elite armies, tau would lose.

But no, we only see elite army lists, no hordes, no high av vehices, just MC's and elite stuff.

No wonder people are losing to tau.

A part of this is due to tournament time limits. Some of the best players in the country admitted to not finishing many games naturally at NOVA. Guys that play 40k ten times more than the average Joe and know their army better than many of us ever will. They still aren't finishing games. Mechdar with lots of skimmers is very fast to play. The 4 riptide list that won NOVA had 30 models or less. FMC daemon lists reserve all their troops and start with 5 or 6 models on the table. Necron lists must reserve all their flyers. Despite all this, top table gamers are not finishing games.

If they can't do it with elite armies, why even bother with hordes? I started a thread on it on my club's forum and people admit to crafting elite armies to finish games in a timed tournament setting. Until tournaments start drastically lowering points or increasing time limits, elite armies will always be more prevalent than hordes. We may see a small surge with the new Nid and Ork books during the next year which may be the first to dethrone the Tau/Eldar reign.