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2013/11/02 01:04:17
Subject: Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
xruslanx wrote: Not that I'd disagree that gw don't care about their fans...though off the top of my head I can't think of any company whatsoever that "cares" about their customers.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
xruslanx wrote: Not that I'd disagree that gw don't care about their fans...though off the top of my head I can't think of any company whatsoever that "cares" about their customers.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
xruslanx wrote: GW are not clamping down on fansites. The largest fansite by far is dakkadakka, and they're fine as long as they clamp down on piracy/IP infringement. GW acted on radio40k because they read out the entire Space Marine codex before release. Imagine if yakface posted the entire points values and rules of the Space Marine codex in 40k General Discussion...clearly gw would be justified in acting on it.
Game rules can't be copyrighted. You have every right to read out the entire rules for 40k if you want. GW just feels entitled to demand additional protection for its IP beyond what the law allows, and enforces it with legal threats the average fansite can't afford to fight back against.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2013/11/02 01:28:23
Subject: Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
How is that relevant? You said nothing about "private companies". You said you know of no companies that care about their customers. I provided you with three examples to the contrary, two of which (GB and MM) I have personal experience with.
Every comment of yours that I've read on Dakka in the last month since I joined have been sarcastic, rude and/or disingenuous. I almost added you to my ignore list despite never having spoken to you (I believe this is the first time), because I got sick of reading your obstructive sarcastic comments derailing the 40K Balance Hammer thread, then you stopped commenting. Are you always this belligerent with people who don't share your opinion?
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2013/11/02 01:40:51
2013/11/02 01:44:00
Subject: Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
xruslanx wrote: GW are not clamping down on fansites. The largest fansite by far is dakkadakka, and they're fine as long as they clamp down on piracy/IP infringement. GW acted on radio40k because they read out the entire Space Marine codex before release. Imagine if yakface posted the entire points values and rules of the Space Marine codex in 40k General Discussion...clearly gw would be justified in acting on it.
Game rules can't be copyrighted. You have every right to read out the entire rules for 40k if you want. GW just feels entitled to demand additional protection for its IP beyond what the law allows, and enforces it with legal threats the average fansite can't afford to fight back against.
This is important to emphasize: the applicable US law can be found summarized on the U.S. Copyright Office page;
Spoiler:
Copyright does not protect the idea for a game, its name or title, or the method or methods for playing it. Nor does copyright protect any idea, system, method, device, or trademark material involved in developing, merchandising, or playing a game. Once a game has been made public, nothing in the copyright law prevents others from developing another game based on similar principles. Copyright protects only the particular manner of an author’s expression in literary, artistic, or musical form.
Material prepared in connection with a game may be subject to copyright if it contains a sufficient amount of literary or pictorial expression. For example, the text matter describing the rules of the game or the pictorial matter appearing on the gameboard or container may be registrable.
If your game includes any written element, such as instructions or directions, the Copyright Office recommends that you apply to register it as a literary work. Doing so will allow you to register all copyrightable parts of the game, including any pictorial elements. When the copyrightable elements of the game consist predominantly of pictorial matter, you should apply to register it as a work of the visual arts.
What Dakka is legally entitled to do is substantially less then what Dakka voluntarily chooses to do.
xruslanx wrote: Not that I'd disagree that gw don't care about their fans...though off the top of my head I can't think of any company whatsoever that "cares" about their customers.
*BWAH!!*
You never said 'Private Company' - you only said 'Company'. Do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars.
Believe it or not, most gaming companies are private companies - they are not the exception, they are the rule. Do not assume that because you cannot find the passage does not mean that it is not true. More likely it reflects on a lack of skill on your part.
Reaper is private.
Blue Moon is private.
Paizo is private - and very glad to stay that way. (Goblin Works may be public, but I do not know.)
Wiz Kids was private, was bought by Topp's - which isn't, and then spun off and is private again.
In part this is the case because the profit margin is so small - little attraction for shareholders, and in part because the kinds of folks that run game companies enjoy retaining control. And a few are private because GW makes such an excellent bad example of what happens when a company is publicly held.
I believe that all the companies founded by ex-GW folks are private - care to guess why? Privateer is. Mantic is. Warlord is.
Even WotC was privately held, until it was purchased by Hasbro (which is both huge and publicly held).
The good part is that the companies remain under inside control - the bad part is not having the strength of a larger company to fall back on.
The Auld Grump
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
2013/11/02 02:44:09
Subject: Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
xruslanx wrote: GW are not clamping down on fansites. The largest fansite by far is dakkadakka, and they're fine as long as they clamp down on piracy/IP infringement. GW acted on radio40k because they read out the entire Space Marine codex before release. Imagine if yakface posted the entire points values and rules of the Space Marine codex in 40k General Discussion...clearly gw would be justified in acting on it.
Game rules can't be copyrighted. You have every right to read out the entire rules for 40k if you want. GW just feels entitled to demand additional protection for its IP beyond what the law allows, and enforces it with legal threats the average fansite can't afford to fight back against.
You're right - my bad, they aren't copyrighted. I would still argue personally that I think wanting to curtail leaks on upcoming products is morally justified.
The plural of codex is codexes.
2013/11/02 02:48:51
Subject: Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
xruslanx wrote: You're right - my bad, they aren't copyrighted. I would still argue personally that I think wanting to curtail leaks on upcoming products is morally justified.
You're right. GW has every right to attempt to improve their security and prevent their employees from leaking material (and fire anyone who does), refuse to sell to stores that release new products early against their retail contracts, etc. They do not have the moral right to abuse the legal system and demand protection for their flawed business model based entirely on "we can afford to spend more on lawyers than you can". If GW's leak prevention fails and someone gets a copy of the codex early the only thing GW is morally justified in doing when that person publishes the entire rules section is say "oops, too bad for us, we'll try to do better next time".
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/02 02:51:34
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2013/11/02 03:25:42
Subject: Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
xruslanx wrote: You're right - my bad, they aren't copyrighted. I would still argue personally that I think wanting to curtail leaks on upcoming products is morally justified.
You're right. GW has every right to attempt to improve their security and prevent their employees from leaking material (and fire anyone who does), refuse to sell to stores that release new products early against their retail contracts, etc. They do not have the moral right to abuse the legal system and demand protection for their flawed business model based entirely on "we can afford to spend more on lawyers than you can". If GW's leak prevention fails and someone gets a copy of the codex early the only thing GW is morally justified in doing when that person publishes the entire rules section is say "oops, too bad for us, we'll try to do better next time".
Don't let him derail the thread like usual, this isn't anything to do with Dakka, 40K Radio, BoW or anything to do with info leaks. This thread is about the increasing amount of published product which is available in English only, let's not forget that!
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
MeanGreenStompa wrote: I don't think GW would wish to leave or let go of any potential market. I do think they are very interested in cost cutting exercises atm and that reducing anything and everything seen as superfluous or 'fat' will be cut back to the bone. There may well have been a meeting re the boxes, for example, that said that the vast majority of their nonEnglish language nation customers already speak and read English and so taking the time to rename and translate was a waste of revenue.
I don't think this has a dark hidden agenda, I think it's just cost cutting, again.
Basically this. More cost-cutting to stem the tide of their shrinking sales volumes.
It isn't. xruslanx is just moving the goal posts. Best stop talking to him now lest he lead you down a garden path covered in red-herrings and the straw of men.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/02 03:56:54
I rather suspect that GW does not think of it as 'retreating from non-English [speaking] markets' but merely as 'cost saving allocation of personnel and resources'.
Which translates, to my mind, as 'yeah, their retreating' at least in the medium to the long run. They are looking at the immediate savings, while disregarding the less immediate profits that they potentially lose.
Short sighted thinking rather than a deliberate abandonment of a market.
The Auld Grump
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
2013/11/02 08:37:04
Subject: Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
Having thought about it I'm not sure it's that bad an idea from a pure business viewpoint.
Localised codexes are most necessary for younger players whose foreign language skills are weak. As long as GW make sure to get the most popular armies, like SM, out in localised editions, they probably don't need to worry about the more specialist books which would have low sales to younger (and newer) players.
Obviously this still would be a "retreat" from a full service position, and a disappointment to non-native English speaking players. We also remember the retreat from specialist games.
More evidence that GW has become essentially a toy company?
Kilkrazy wrote: Having thought about it I'm not sure it's that bad an idea from a pure business viewpoint.
Localised codexes are most necessary for younger players whose foreign language skills are weak. As long as GW make sure to get the most popular armies, like SM, out in localised editions, they probably don't need to worry about the more specialist books which would have low sales to younger (and newer) players.
Obviously this still would be a "retreat" from a full service position, and a disappointment to non-native English speaking players. We also remember the retreat from specialist games.
More evidence that GW has become essentially a toy company?
But in a shrinking market, denying sales to anyone is a bad idea. There's also the knock-on effect on customer translations; be they formal on just reading in a different language. The rules are hard enough to get clear between players when it's written in their native language. Just think how horrible it'd be to try and have a rules discussion when you're either looking at a home-translated pdf and/or a book in a different language? There will be a lot of sutle meanings that could be missed.
There's also really not that much content in most of these supplements, so I don't think the translating would even run to the thousands per language per book. I'm sure you could outsource the translation to foreign language editors, and have the shop staff proof read them.
I'm sure it makes perfect sense from a short term shareholder/accountant point of view; it saves them a bit of money, but it's going to shrink or at least stagnate non-native markets. We assume most Foreigners can read fluent English to follow rules, but when the rules are already a mess, and your target audience are young teens (who presumably haven't travelled and been exposed to much spoken English), then it's a major hinderence at best. Especially in countries with their own local gaming companies.
In the long term it's a bad idea, especially if the UK economy is weakening and all the money is going to the far east (most of whom have no real interest in reading English).
2013/11/02 09:17:15
Subject: Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
Kilkrazy wrote: Having thought about it I'm not sure it's that bad an idea from a pure business viewpoint.
Localised codexes are most necessary for younger players whose foreign language skills are weak. As long as GW make sure to get the most popular armies, like SM, out in localised editions, they probably don't need to worry about the more specialist books which would have low sales to younger (and newer) players.
Obviously this still would be a "retreat" from a full service position, and a disappointment to non-native English speaking players. We also remember the retreat from specialist games.
More evidence that GW has become essentially a toy company?
Pretty much what I think too.
2013/11/02 09:28:21
Subject: Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
Herzlos wrote: But in a shrinking market, denying sales to anyone is a bad idea.
This. Even if it isn't a complete loss of the foreign market it's just hard to imagine that the cost of translation is so high that GW isn't losing money by giving up those sales. And GW really isn't in a position to be giving up customers right now.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2013/11/02 11:41:49
Subject: Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
GW probably reckon that 10% of the new young customers might stay with them more than a couple of years, of which maybe 10% might get interested in the "minority" armies that are published only digitally.
In other words the loss of those customers is pretty negligible so it makes sense as a long term strategy.
Obviously I just made up the figures to illustrate a possibility, and it ignores the factor of annoying current veterans who I should have thought are recruiters of newbs into the game.
I rather suspect that GW does not think of it as 'retreating from non-English [speaking] markets' but merely as 'cost saving allocation of personnel and resources'.
Which translates, to my mind, as 'yeah, their retreating' at least in the medium to the long run. They are looking at the immediate savings, while disregarding the less immediate profits that they potentially lose.
Short sighted thinking rather than a deliberate abandonment of a market.
The Auld Grump
That's how I see it. Digi-dexes are probably looking to GW like a cheap, low risk source of revenue. I think GW is strained enough at the moment that it is looking to boost revenue in ways that are extremely low risk. The digi-dexes probably have a very low up front cost, so it doesn't really matter if they sell well or not. If they don't, the company isn't really out anything (other than goodwill). This is not a move made by a company in a comfortable position and I think it is very similar to the rash of cheap game licenses GW has been giving.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/02 12:29:26
Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"
AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."
AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
2013/11/02 14:53:48
Subject: Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
MajorTom11 wrote: I'm not really sure what the point is here though? GW not releasing other language translated products for people who speak other languages sucks for them. Of course.
Well, that is the point surely? I suppose this being an English language forum there is a propensity for people to say, "Well, I speak English so I'm fine, LOL! Go and take your complaints elsewhere", but it's impossible not to sympathise. And, it's yet another example (seems to be at least one per month at the moment, with the various fan sites coming under the crosshairs again recently) of the company not giving a flying poo about the fans.
I know a lot of Europeans speak English, but there must be many more who don't or would prefer it in their native tongue anyway - these people will now have a large element of the hobby they enjoy denied to them. And, you have to think rather flippantly, considering the costs of translation and how small that figure must be compared to the turnover of the product. It seems like an incredibly questionable decision from any angle.
I was talking to a fellow wargaming fan in Korea about how ripe the market there would be for a company like GW. The culture, the large disposable income, the propensity towards elements of the wargaming hobby, I wasn't alone in thinking that both that country (and possibly China as well now) were an absolute potential gold mine for anyone willing to make an investment. But, now we get just another example of the company flying in ever smaller circles, following the well-trod path and with absolutely zero forward thinking. It's sad for the fans, it's sad for the industry as a whole, it's sad for GW..
First, thanks for quoting only one line of my post.
Second, I am an anglophone Montrealler in Quebec. Few people here have anywhere near my experience when it comes to having difficulty having access to services and goods in their native language that I do. Believe me, I understand 200% what it is like to feel swept under the rug based on my language and location, and to be ignored while my taxes are collected.
Third, my question remains? What is the point? It's a gakky move to take away things that were formerly offered and essentially tell existing customers you are done with them unless they change the language they prefer to game in. I don't think anyone would rightly say 'hey, you have been gaming in German/whatever up til now and now you can't, isn't that awesome?'. The other side, that GW has come to the conclusion this is in their best interests business wise (right or wrong) also remains. So, agreeing that it sucks, and agreeing they are going to do it anyways, what is really left to go over here?
You can disagree as you will, but do not put my name in a camp with people who are unsympathetic to language issues and the importance of understanding and support for linguistic diversity. I take that as an insult.
The point is the following:
GW somewhat promised that they would never again stop support for an army (like they did for Squats) because of fairness to people owning them.
Now they seem to start dropping support for all markets except UK, anglophone USA and anglophone Canada, which is unfair to all the thousands of gamers there who own thousands of dollars worth of GW products.
There are a handfull of older, well-educated and wealthy people in most countries who would buy English Codices and rulebooks, but not enough to support the game in those countries. In my town the local store sells usually two English Codices/armybooks per release, one of them for me (and I don't play that often). But we have a lot of gamers and a thriving community, including many teens. No way will 40k survive with English only publications.
It is typical GW logic to say: "Hey, we could save 10,000 GBP by dropping the German market!"
But the market itself is not shrinking but growing fast. It is just GW not following standard marketing and advertising strategies that reaps the consequences of their bad management. Not to speak of the pricing. GW's flat revenue (inflation adjusted) is a problem created by GW itself and easy to remedy. Dropping 50% of their markets is NOT the answer.
Kilkrazy wrote: It probably costs several thousand pounds to do a good quality translation and layout, but there is no production cost of physical copies and they charge the same for the digital book as the physical one.
Exactly, several thousand pounds. You might say, "Whoa now! Several thousand pounds for several different languages adds up!" But it don't add up to a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. And if GW has to shave off that kind of expense to make sure it eeks some profit out of the e-dexes...how much is it really making from the e-dexes in the first place?
Then you have to ask if the money you stand to make from the untranslated e-dexes is worth the hit to your goodwill. Games Workshop has obviously decided that it is, and it follows that GW feels that it needs to make an extra 10-15 grand off of every e-dex, and is spinning those lumps of cheap, recirculated crap out every month. What does that communicate about the health of the company?
To me, that shows a company that is looking around wildly for any scrap of IP to squeeze some profit out of. It looks like a snazzy idea someone cooked up to take work that was pretty much already done, spend a little effort to throw a few pages of new content in, utilize salaried employees to do the layout, and throw it up for download as quickly as possible. These things are in the same vein as GW lowering its standards and licensing whatever IP it can to whatever software developer is willing to spit out a tablet game. These licences are cheap, and GW risks diluting the value of the IP with a series of crappy, poorly-received games. High risk, low profit. That is not a move made by a company that can afford to turn away a few thousand dollars to maintain the integrity of its most valuable asset.
Again, GW is cannibalizing itself. GW already ate its employees, and already ate its decent retail locations. GW ate the good stuff already. It ate the horses and dogs. GW is down to eating its boots to survive, and when those are done, GW management is going to be eyeing each other with hungry stares...Hell, they already devoured Gill, but she was dying from an infected wound anyhow...so they didn't kill her so much as, you know...eat her.
MajorTom11 wrote: I'm not really sure what the point is here though? GW not releasing other language translated products for people who speak other languages sucks for them. Of course.
Well, that is the point surely? I suppose this being an English language forum there is a propensity for people to say, "Well, I speak English so I'm fine, LOL! Go and take your complaints elsewhere", but it's impossible not to sympathise. And, it's yet another example (seems to be at least one per month at the moment, with the various fan sites coming under the crosshairs again recently) of the company not giving a flying poo about the fans.
I know a lot of Europeans speak English, but there must be many more who don't or would prefer it in their native tongue anyway - these people will now have a large element of the hobby they enjoy denied to them. And, you have to think rather flippantly, considering the costs of translation and how small that figure must be compared to the turnover of the product. It seems like an incredibly questionable decision from any angle.
I was talking to a fellow wargaming fan in Korea about how ripe the market there would be for a company like GW. The culture, the large disposable income, the propensity towards elements of the wargaming hobby, I wasn't alone in thinking that both that country (and possibly China as well now) were an absolute potential gold mine for anyone willing to make an investment. But, now we get just another example of the company flying in ever smaller circles, following the well-trod path and with absolutely zero forward thinking. It's sad for the fans, it's sad for the industry as a whole, it's sad for GW..
First, thanks for quoting only one line of my post.
Second, I am an anglophone Montrealler in Quebec. Few people here have anywhere near my experience when it comes to having difficulty having access to services and goods in their native language that I do. Believe me, I understand 200% what it is like to feel swept under the rug based on my language and location, and to be ignored while my taxes are collected.
Third, my question remains? What is the point? It's a gakky move to take away things that were formerly offered and essentially tell existing customers you are done with them unless they change the language they prefer to game in. I don't think anyone would rightly say 'hey, you have been gaming in German/whatever up til now and now you can't, isn't that awesome?'. The other side, that GW has come to the conclusion this is in their best interests business wise (right or wrong) also remains. So, agreeing that it sucks, and agreeing they are going to do it anyways, what is really left to go over here?
You can disagree as you will, but do not put my name in a camp with people who are unsympathetic to language issues and the importance of understanding and support for linguistic diversity. I take that as an insult.
The point is that GW is running away a market- SEVERAL markets, and it is honestly looking like they either - Don't know what they are doing, or are doing it purposely.
WHY BOTHER? is to outright fall back from my usual stance of being spiteful of their company and pointing out the blatantly obvious. THE HHHOBBY is too damn expensive.
Between jacking the prices to obviously insane listings, to crapping all over the support structure, fanbase, and overall meta market of the game industry, GW is pretty much abdicating itself as a company. Public, Private, etc, it honestly doesn't matter at this point.
There has been talk that Kirby is using the company to pad his nest egg, with the stuff like this going on, the company will not survive the crush of the economy if they do not change their ways.
Foreign markets, in particular GERMAN market, and ASIA would be a very good place for them to get it in gear and make themselves some money, But with the past years experience from the Aussie market, WE are all collectively seeing a company going into remission and either not exactly knowing what they are doing, or doing it so badly that they honestly believe, such as you seem to show that they are the cats meow and don't need to make any cash flow.
Once again, I point to the Games-day photos, the market of OTHER companies latterly slaughtering them in sales, and the ever-present but undisguised way in which they are pawning off their licensed stuff.
Now obvious might think obvious, but when your watching it from the sidelines, all you can say is we've seen this show before.
TSR.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/02 17:58:53
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
2013/11/02 20:04:32
Subject: Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
Something that baffles me on the subject of translations is that GW can't claim they didn't have the money to do the translations in-house or contracted. How much cash did they disburse as stock dividends? ~GBP350,000 IIRC? That could have paid for a lot more than just the translations that would sell better in non-english speaking regions.
Sometimes you have fun, and sometimes the fun has you. -Sgt. Schlock
2013/11/02 20:52:42
Subject: Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
Lol, I agree 100% with you guys, but now what? The same thing is being repeated ad nauseum, most are in firm agreement .... So, is 'the point' to repeat a set of given facts no one really contends with? If so, that has been accomplished very well already. If the 'point' is in fact to figure out a course of action on what to do about it, there doesn't seem to be a ton of that happening.
If all we are interested in in #1 then there isn't much left to say. If it is #2, then let's focus a bit more in that direction. What options do these dropped markets have?
Just to throw this in, english tends to be the generic accepted language in europe. When i lived in spain and met people from other countrys we all spoke in english as a middle ground. Maybe this is a factor? I don't know. American television has also helped spread english as a widely used language.
2013/11/02 21:53:41
Subject: Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
MajorTom11 wrote: Lol, I agree 100% with you guys, but now what? The same thing is being repeated ad nauseum, most are in firm agreement .... So, is 'the point' to repeat a set of given facts no one really contends with? If so, that has been accomplished very well already. If the 'point' is in fact to figure out a course of action on what to do about it, there doesn't seem to be a ton of that happening.
If all we are interested in in #1 then there isn't much left to say. If it is #2, then let's focus a bit more in that direction. What options do these dropped markets have?
If I look around in my vicinity, what people who aren't a) newcomers or b) absolute fanatics do is either switching to older, abandoned GW games and earlier editions of Fantasy and 40k or exploring completely different games.
Either way, of all the players I know (meaning having a talk with them at least on a semi-regular base), GW has lost almost 50% as customers in the past three years. Until very recently, the main points of complaint were prices and the continuous "upscaling" of the games (horde formations, flyers, 40k allies) - now, the "English only" publications joined the fray. In Vienna at least, they couldn't lose their regular customers (by which I mean people who stay customers for more than two years) faster if they tried. Quite impressive, in a way.
EDIT:
More anecdotal evidence: My local FLGS buys used models. In good condition, you would get roughly half the retail price. This year they cut the service except for the absolute top-tier armies, as the rest simply won't sell anymore.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/02 21:58:30
Oaka wrote: It's getting to the point where if I see Marneus Calgar and the Swarmlord in the same unit as a Riptide, I probably won't question its legality.
2013/11/02 22:29:58
Subject: Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
1.) This trend is not yet obvious to everyone. My first thread in news&rumours http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/210/549510.page was closed because the mod deemed it not worthy for a news-thread. I started a second thread here, now a few people seem to follow my view, that this is indeed not just another crazy GW hater thread by a hysteric or coincidence but a hidden trend. So raising awareness about this issue is one important factor to organise restistance.
Fun fact: Last week I talked to a Forge World guy from UK, and he wasn't aware of all new GW boxes since SM release having only English (and French) names on it. He was really surprised and wanted to talk to his Nottingham colleagues about that. I know that GW Germany also expressed their concern.
2.) Reduced support for non-English markets is something, that not only affects the customers in those countries, but also eventually the GW staff there. First it will hit the retail staff that will have more and more difficulties to meet the sales targets to keep their jobs/shops. Finally it will meet the HQ staff in each non-English country. So GW's aggressive shrinking policy will cost jobs of people not responsible for the absurd mistakes by higher management in Nottingham. GW, being a strict streamlined yes-company with no feedback allowed, makes it difficult for staff to express their concern, but fear for their jobs will eventually motivate them to try. This is something we should support.
3.) Until then, it means for us customers: Learn English well enough to understand 100 pages of rules, get a well paid job, buy a new iPad every 2 years (the non-exchangeable rechargeable batteries only hold that long). And make sure that your friends also learn English, get well paid jobs and buy iPads every 2 years. Or start Infinity or the upcoming AvP game
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/02 22:36:43
I think Weeble said it best when describing how GW is cannabilizing itself. They've closed down stores, they've gone to one-man stores, they've dropped the Specialist Games range, they're making more digital releases for direct profit, they're licensing IPs out left and right, pulling out of foreign markets (apparently, they decided it costs more to support those markets than the money they get from those markers), etc.
They've been so focused for years on keeping their financials stable for the sake of looking good to the investors. Either the executives (Kirby et al) are just milking the company for every easy paycheck they can get before it all falls apart, or they have some other plan.
Honestly, I do not believe any true solution to GW's situation can involve GW remaining an independent entity. They need to be bought out by a larger company that has the money to invest into turning GW around and making them the industry leader they used to be.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
2013/11/03 00:15:06
Subject: Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
i actually dont mind for gw to only sell english products i speak dutch and i cant read french or german so if i go to a tournament and i play vs a german or a frenchy they usualy pull a fast one on me becouse i cant contradict them bcouse of the foreign language of there codex while im stuck whit a english codex.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/03 00:15:49
