New Space Marine Book (Got it early)

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**ansacs**

Are the centurion units allowed any dedicated transport options? Thanks.

**Korros**

1.) What wargear does MOTF have access to?
2.) Which units get to take chapter relics?
3.) Can honor guard still take auxiliary grenade launchers?

**dracpanzer**

How do Vanguard Veteran weapon upgrades compare in cost to the 5ed book? Are they the same as the DA book? (Sure hope not...)

**AL-PiXeL01**

What are the effects of banners?

**Ravenous D**

ansacs wrote:Are the centurion units allowed any dedicated transport options? Thanks.

Land raiders

Korros wrote:1.) What wargear does MOTF have access to?
2.) Which units get to take chapter relics?
3.) Can honor guard still take auxiliary grenade launchers?

1) He can take ranged, melee, special issue wargear and chapter relics, can replace the servo harness with a conversion beamer, and take a power axe.
2) ICs, and the banner bearers can take the banner.
3) Doesn't look like it

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AL-PiXeL01 wrote:
What are the effects of banners?

Standard of the emperor ascendant:
friendly units within 12" reroll morale and pinning, have hatred, fear and adds +1 to combat res.

chapter banner is the same but adds +1 attack instead of combat res, and does not have fear and hatred

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minigun762 wrote:How do Vanguard's value compare to standard Assault Marines?
Is one grossly better than the other point wise?

Assault marines are 17pts base and can drop the packs for a rhino or drop pod for free

vanguard are 19pts base, any can take weapons from the melee list (so 15pt power weapons, 25pt fists)
NO discount for removing packs.

Largo39 wrote:Quick question:

How much is artificer armour for captains/chapter masters?
do bikes upgrades still cost the same for them?

Thanks!

20pts for both armour and bikes for both characters

Tiger9gamer wrote:How much points are the bikers? I heard they are 21 points or so.

How cheap is the Hunter/Stalker? around whirlwind price?

What's your favorite day of the week?

21 is the number for bikes

65pt whirl winds, hunter is 70pts, and stalker is 75pts

FRIDAY

TheCustomLime wrote:How are Captains shaping up? Do they have any use besides making bikes scoring and being a mediocre HQ?

They are pretty bog standard, 90pts base and access to stuff and unlock bike troops, that's about it.

Mind you I say again, 5 bikes with 2 grav guns and 1 combi grav is 150pts, that's 9 shots that wound on armour with ap2 concussive.

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dracpanzer wrote:
How do Vanguard Veteran weapon upgrades compare in cost to the 5ed book? Are they the same as the DA book? (Sure hope not...)

Sadly vanguard are still expensive and heroic intervention is craptastic.

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Here's a quick list:
Khan
6x6 man bike w/2 grav guns and 1 combi grav
3x3 man bike w/2 grav guns and 1 combi grav

1500pts

Army has scout, ignores dangerous terrain, hit and run, adds +1s to hammer of wrath.

**DogofWar1**

Someone asked about bike costs. I too had heard they were 21 points per, is that accurate?

What about base costs? Are they the same as CSM or DA, or somewhere in between?

You mentioned that 5 guys w/ 2 grav guns and combi-grav was 150. I was trying to work backwards, but I'm unsure how much grav guns are. Combi-grav is probably 10, so 140. Grav rifles are maybe 15? Rumors seem to put them at 15. That would place bikes at around 110 for 5, which would put their cost around 20 pts per bike with a base cost around 70. Is that more or less accurate?

If so, I will be very pleased at the price drop on bikes. I'll definitely have fun with squads of 7 or fewer bikes flying around with trip grav, trip plas, trip melta, and trip flamer for under 200 points. Maybe quad if I get uppity and add an IC.

Thanks in advance.

Edit: Ninja'd on the per bike cost, but still wondering about that base cost for the 3 bike unit. Hopefully it's in line with C:CSM.

**Lobokai**

Edit: NM

I am curious as to how the salamanders fluff has changed... does it actually say they have no successors and are an oversized chapter now?

**dracpanzer**

Ravenous D wrote:
Sadly vanguard are still expensive and heroic intervention is craptastic.

Sad to hear it, though it does fly in the face of everyone thinking GW powers up a unit just to sell it. I was actually hoping that the "conventional wisdom" was right this time. Good source of weapon bits for conversion/character work. By "no discount for removing packs" did you mean that they still don't get a free or reduced transport like ASM do?

Did the cost of Honor Guard with packs go down? Still hoping that I might be able to use some form of jump packers with my Raven Guard.

**Citizen Luka**

How much is the plain bike squad (sergeant + 2 bikers)?

Regards

**AlmightyWalrus**

Madcat87 wrote:
Ravenous D wrote:
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Troike wrote:
Do Templars keep their own position on the allies matrix or do they use the vanilla Marine one now?

says in the designer note that they follow codex space marine now

Was typing up this exact question a few seconds ago, BT Allies here I come!

Oh damnation, now I have to buy a Sisters of Battle detachment to go with my Templars.

**lord_blackfang**

ITT everyone asks about things we've known about for 2-3 weeks.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Can Honour Guard take Drop Pods?

**TheCustomLime**

How about Librarians? Do they still have access to Terminator armor? Do they have to roll on random powers chart now?

**Imposter101**

Ravenous D wrote:
ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
How are the chapter traits looking?

Ultramarines:
All doctrines are 1 use per game trait:
Tactical doctrine - all models in detachment reroll 1s, tactical squads reroll all misses
Assault doctrine - all units in detachment reroll charge distance, assault/bike/attack squads get fleet (even though bikes cant run...)
Devastator doctrine - all models reroll snap shots including overwatch, devastator squads have overwatch, unless they disembarked that turn

wait for more

White scars:
Born in the saddle: auto pass dangerous terrain tests on a bike, +1 jink, +1S on hammer of wrath

Fight on the move: all models (except termies, centurions) have hit and run.

Imperial fists:
Bolter drill - rerolls all 1s with bolter weapons, does not apply to special ammo

Siege masters - dev squads and dev centurions have tank hunter and add +1 to building pen table.

Black Templars:
accept any challenge: characters in challenges re roll hits and have rending

crusaders: all models have crusader and adamantium will, and can use crusader squads

Iron hands
the flesh is weak: 6+ feel no pain

machine empathy: all vehicles have 'it will not die' and all techmarines and masters of the forge add +1 to blessings of the omnissiah

Salamanders:
Flamecraft: rerolls saves against flamer weapons, and reroll wounds and armour pen with flamers

master artisans: characters can master 1 weapon for free

Ravenguard:
Strike from the shadows -All models have scout, and non bulky and very bulky models have stealth on turn 1.

wing deliverance - Jump infantry can use their packs for both movement and assault and reroll wounds for hammer of wrath

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gmaleron wrote:
That is dissapointing, no Heavy Flamers for TAC Squads , in regards to Tactical Marines can a x5 man TAC Squad take a Drop Pod now?

Also how many points are Combi-Grav weapons for Sternguard?

And are Thunderfire Cannons on top of being Barrage Weapons (which is amazing BTW!) still relentless?

Not relentless

and all combis are 10pts each

This is like a kick (the second after the codex) to the groin for CSM players. I might just buy this for the counts as opportunities.

**Zambro**

Aside from the triple grav bike squad, are there any other powerful combo's you can see?

**Puscifer**

Is there any information in the Dex on Blood Ravens?

**daisho**

Can Sternguards take Heavy Bolter or Stormbolters with Special Issue Ammunition, or do they still only work with normal Bolters?

**Rysaer**

TheCustomLime wrote:
How about Librarians? Do they still have access to Terminator armor? Do they have to roll on random powers chart now?

Yes they can still take TA, they can only access the basic BRB lores, but they cannot take from divination, I believe they can take from the rest (Bio, Telepathy, Telekinesis, Pyro.)

Tigirius can take from all of the BRB lores and can re-roll when selecting his spells. (Mastery lvl 3)

**AlmightyWalrus**

Saw something about the ECs stances only working in Challenges; is this true and if so how does he work outside challenges?

**Rysaer**

Puscifer wrote:
Is there any information in the Dex on Blood Ravens?

*Update*
There is a section with chapters with unknown geneseeds/parents, but I've only flicked through it briefly, it doesn't detail them as far as I can tell at all.

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daisho wrote:
Can Sternguards take Heavy Bolter or Stormbolters with Special Issue Ammunition, or do they still only work with normal Bolters?

As far as I am aware it is still only for Bolters, haven't seen anything to say it works with heavy/storm.

**stargasm**

What units on foot can take heavy famers besides sternguard?

**Rysaer**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Saw something about the ECs stances only working in Challenges; is this true and if so how does he work outside challenges?

In combat he has two stances. You do not need to take a EC as mandatory anymore as far as I can tell. He also has Black Templars Chapter Tactics, Fearless and Independant Character.

Slay the Unclean - +2S but Black Sword becomes 2 handed and unwieldy.
Slay the Heretic - Rolls to wound of 6's are Instant Death

Also for some other questions:

Honour Guard can take drop pods as dedicated transports.

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stargasm wrote:
What units on foot can take heavy famers besides sternguard?

Covered this one already I think, but only Sternguard and LotD may take Heavy Flamers.

**stargasm**

My bad! saw the tactical squad with HF in WD and got all excited. Thanks!

**Rysaer**

stargasm wrote:
My bad! saw the tactical squad with HF in WD and got all excited. Thanks!

No problem , happy to be helping battle brothers where I can.

There is a small indicator next to the Heavy Flamer in the wargear section, that indicator is listed at the bottom as Sternguard/LotD only. That is definetly the case, as I have just double checked. Tacticals cannot access Heavy Flamers. :(

**Rustgob**

Is it possible to take terminators as troops?

Do Dreadnoughts have the ability to change their CCW into more things than a ML or Autocannon? (I.e. Mortis Dreadnoughts)

**lord_blackfang**

Rustgob wrote:
Is it possible to take terminators as troops?

Do Dreadnoughts have the ability to change their CCW into more things than a ML or Autocannon? (I.e. Mortis Dreadnoughts)

No and no.

**Rustgob**

lord_blackfang wrote:
Rustgob wrote:
Is it possible to take terminators as troops?

Do Dreadnoughts have the ability to change their CCW into more things than a ML or Autocannon? (I.e. Mortis Dreadnoughts)

No and no.

Incredibly lame. :[

**Rysaer**

lord_blackfang wrote:
Rustgob wrote:
Is it possible to take terminators as troops?

Do Dreadnoughts have the ability to change their CCW into more things than a ML or Autocannon? (I.e. Mortis Dreadnoughts)

No and no.

The lack of Mortis style dreads didn't upset me as much as I thought it would, I think it's just I'm so used to the FW one and the fact that I love my Mortis model only helps

**wuestenfux**

Rysaer wrote:
TheCustomLime wrote:
How about Librarians? Do they still have access to Terminator armor? Do they have to roll on random powers chart now?

Yes they can still take TA, they can only access the basic BRB lores, but they cannot take from divination, I believe they can take from the rest (Bio, Telepathy, Telekinesis, Pyro.)

Tigirius can take from all of the BRB lores and can re-roll when selecting his spells. (Mastery lvl 3)

Is Tigirius at the same cost?

**Rysaer**

wuestenfux wrote:
Rysaer wrote:
TheCustomLime wrote:
How about Librarians? Do they still have access to Terminator armor? Do they have to roll on random powers chart now?

Yes they can still take TA, they can only access the basic BRB lores, but they cannot take from divination, I believe they can take from the rest (Bio, Telepathy, Telekinesis, Pyro.)

Tigirius can take from all of the BRB lores and can re-roll when selecting his spells. (Mastery lvl 3)

Is Tigirius at the same cost?

I do not currently have the old book with me but I can tell you that Tigirius is worth: Ledyba's Pokedex Number. (I actually can't state points of units etc as it breaks the rules, hopefully you know what I mean)