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90% of it is copied from either the previous dex or the DA. Still no synergy, still very restrictive options as far as weapons & equipment load out for particular units. New units (centurions & AA tanks) are all kinds of fail. I only see 1 or 2 decent unit combos, but nothing that can touch Tau. I'm just amazed how terrible the Centurions are.

Not even out for 24 hours and people say they suck? Huh, must be a new record.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Not even out for 24 hours and people say they suck? Huh, must be a new record.

Welcome to DakkaDakka, where the sky is always falling and your army is never considered OP enough unless it can win by simply deploying and rolling a 1+.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Not even out for 24 hours and people say they suck? Huh, must be a new record.

Welcome to DakkaDakka, where the sky is always falling and your army is never considered OP enough unless it can win by simply deploying and rolling a 1+.

I'm not a regular poster here. I am expressing my opinion & disappointment in something I just spent $60. If you don't like my opinion, post a counter point, otherwise don't post.

 Fulcrum wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Not even out for 24 hours and people say they suck? Huh, must be a new record.

Welcome to DakkaDakka, where the sky is always falling and your army is never considered OP enough unless it can win by simply deploying and rolling a 1+.

I'm not a regular poster here. I am expressing my opinion & disappointment in something I just spent $60. If you don't like my opinion, post a counter point, otherwise don't post & go blow yourself.

Maybe you should have read through it before plunking down your $60. You might be able to return it to the store or sell it to someone so you can minimize your loss and disappointment. Unless you are just trolling to get a reaction. In that case mission accomplished!

I'll give ya $40 shipped

 Fulcrum wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Not even out for 24 hours and people say they suck? Huh, must be a new record.

Welcome to DakkaDakka, where the sky is always falling and your army is never considered OP enough unless it can win by simply deploying and rolling a 1+.

I'm not a regular poster here. I am expressing my opinion & disappointment in something I just spent $60. If you don't like my opinion, post a counter point, otherwise don't post & go blow yourself.

He's right though.

The codex hasn't even been out for a day or two yet, so you can't possibly tell me you've already play-tested a lot of it and actually seen how it sucks in game.

There's a lot of things that suck on paper, but in practicality they work out. And vice-versa...

And please, remember rule one. Mods don't take too kindly to that...

 Fulcrum wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Not even out for 24 hours and people say they suck? Huh, must be a new record.

Welcome to DakkaDakka, where the sky is always falling and your army is never considered OP enough unless it can win by simply deploying and rolling a 1+.

I'm not a regular poster here. I am expressing my opinion & disappointment in something I just spent $60. If you don't like my opinion, post a counter point, otherwise don't post & go blow yourself.

Reported. Watch your language here kid.

Points drops across the board new cool relics that let me build a sick chapter master on bike some interesting chapter tactics especially sweet for iron hands and some new gravity weapons that I actually quite like the rules especially for the dev centurions and the stalker for its cost is a great one up on the hydra!.. So far I have no complaints I don't get the problem?

I do recall within the first day or so of the Tau release everyone said it was terrible, and it wasnt like the old one, and they wanted the old codex back, and it would never be good and guess what? Tau are the new Necrons. Ill with hold judgement on my Champions of Ultramar once I get a few games with them

 Fulcrum wrote:
but nothing that can touch Tau.

NOTE: This is a response to posts on the same thread in tactics section.

"Basically one dead Riptide or Wraithknight a turn if you're in range."

250pts base for 3 models that are slow & purposeful, 24" range, and their ONLY option for alternate movement or deployment is a 250pt landraider. So your talking 500 pts for them to be useful. The grav cannons would be GREAT if there were any way to get them there for a reasonable price. As it is you are just politely asking your opponent to have his riptides or wave serpents hold still while you plod forward into range.

"Army wide hit and run is amazing. Most of the chapter tactics are at least good, and really, FREE, Army Wide USRs is super good."

None of the chapter tactics are as good as being able to choose to fail a ld check & then auto rally.

Tiberius is great, but not with centurions. Not much will make Centurions useable at their points cost. Possibly all bolters with IF chap tactics to put out volume fire, rerolling 1's with tank hunter to kill light vehicles, possibly.

"BT can put down 120 T4 bodies at less than 1500 points"

Anything that buffs CC is mostly a waste at this point. Power armor spam is a decent tactic but I don't think it can compete with taudar. Besides DA do it better with the Dakkabanner. BT have nothing to help them get into combat through all that overwatch. Maybe a triple LRC list & try to line up all your units to charge on the same turn. But that will be VERY difficult to do.

TF are great & even better than before, Grav weapons on bikes are also good. These & Tigurius are about all I like in the dex.

"Centurians with the las cannon is like a cheap dread that can't get dinged by auto cannons (but get wasted by plasma"
Note that 3 centurions with las is 250 base, +30 for missiles, +10 for split fire on 1 model. So 290 for 3x T5 models, 6 wounds total. They have absolutely nothing to keep from getting tarpitted in CC, no running, no overwatch, no sweeping advance.

So far we've got:
Bike w/grav (not so good against horde armies)
Tigurius
TFC

Don't forget how awesome the cover looks. I am considering buying it simply due to the kicking radness associated with that cover.

$60 isn't all that much. Resell for a 10 dollar loss if you hate it.

"Maybe you should have read through it before plunking down your $60."

Unfortunately they're all plastic wrapped, so no reading possible.

"$60 isn't all that much. Resell for a 10 dollar loss if you hate it."

Exactly what I'm doing.

"Reported. Watch your language here kid.

Thanks gramps, don't know what I'd ever do if I was banned from here.

...after playing probably zero games to warm up the book?

For the most part, I've got a lot of the same things, with a minor points reduction. (And Tigurius with a MAJOR points reduction.) The rules allowing multiple chapters to ally are something I've wanted since 6th edition dropped. I felt like our old codex was MORE than competitive (I haven't lost a game in 6th edition yet ((with Marines)) that I didn't essentially throw with some ridiculous list) so I'm excited for ANYTHING we get. I'm sorry you're so disappointed. If it's truly that much of a letdown, feel free to PM me and we can discuss a purchase transaction.

As a side note, I know you said you were relatively new here, so you might want to take a moment to familiarize yourself with the posting rules. In any event, hope things get better for you.

Okay without playing a game with it, I'll also say that marines are going to lose the exact same kinds of battles to Tau, Eldar, Daemons and CSM. Because there's not enough in this book to combat the current meta.

Martel732 wrote:
Okay without playing a game with it, I'll also say that marines are going to lose the exact same kinds of battles to Tau, Eldar, Daemons and CSM. Because there's not enough in this book to combat the current meta.

I've played 2 games so far. 1 against a deldar list that was a combo of venom/WS spam with a wraith knight & jet seer council, another against a tau/tau list with riptides & a far/sun bomb. Don't think I need to go through the specifics because I'm sure everyone is familiar with the inevitable outcome.

I have a game on monday against a tau/dar list which I'm sure will be oodles of fun!

 Fulcrum wrote:
"Maybe you should have read through it before plunking down your $60."

Unfortunately they're all plastic wrapped, so no reading possible.

At the stores I go to they usually have one unwrapped so you can look at it. I saw one before I bought.

The people who are complaining about the people upset about this codex will think you did something wrong, I'm sure.

I'm sorry, I call a spade a spade, and this is not a competitive codex.

Oh, it's okay. Might be the last $60 I EVER give GW.

Ah, isn't it lovely how this happens with every codex? I should really make a record of of these threads.

I remember the Tau being 'hardly improved' on the day 1 of their release, and complaints of the army still not being competitive. The Eldar? Same thing.

So go ahead folks, let's just get it out of your systems at how terrible this codex again and we'll meet again in a couple weeks after people learn the codex and army and get adjusted. After that, we can start a new batch of 'how OP are the new Marines' threads.

Seeya all soon!

Martel732 wrote:
The people who are complaining about the people upset about this codex will think you did something wrong, I'm sure.

I'm sorry, I call a spade a spade, and this is not a competitive codex.

Oh, it's okay. Might be the last $60 I EVER give GW.

Then why have you bought it in the first place? You seemed to know that you would abandon the army if it could not compete in tournaments, so why did you not borrowed it from a friend, read through a store version or even pirated it for god's sake? You would have at least saved us the whining...

"Then why have you bought it in the first place? You seemed to know that you would abandon the army if it could not compete in tournaments, so why did you not borrowed it from a friend, read through a store version or even pirated it for god's sake? You would have at least saved us the whining..."

A fools hope? The rumors were actually very promising. But unfortunately the end result is just not that great. As far as competing in tournaments, my area is full of mostly very competitive players on a day to day basis. There is a core of probably 100ish people, 70% of which are playing some combination of tau/eldar/d-eldar with a sprinkling of nid & daemon flying circuses. There are only a handful of people actively playing any form of power armor, almost all of them have switched to the aforementioned xenos armies. Of course this is only my situation, I can't speak for anyone else.

Martel732 wrote:
The people who are complaining about the people upset about this codex will think you did something wrong, I'm sure.

I'm sorry, I call a spade a spade, and this is not a competitive codex.

Oh, it's okay. Might be the last $60 I EVER give GW.

And yet in a months time you'll be back here, asking us if your SM list is competitive enough

 curran12 wrote:
Ah, isn't it lovely how this happens with every codex? I should really make a record of of these threads.

It'd have to be a broken record.

 Jimsolo wrote:


It'd have to be a broken record.

Oh kudos to you sir. Enjoy a fresh exalt!

 Fulcrum wrote:
Of course this is only my situation, I can't speak for anyone else.

In other words, your problem isn't so much of a "this is a garbage codex" as much as a "I live in an area with a soulless meta".

 Wilytank wrote:

 Fulcrum wrote:
Of course this is only my situation, I can't speak for anyone else.

In other words, your problem isn't so much of a "this is a garbage codex" as much as a "I live in an area with a soulless meta".

I'd pity him if he wasn't being an hole to everyone.

 Wilytank wrote:

 Fulcrum wrote:
Of course this is only my situation, I can't speak for anyone else.

In other words, your problem isn't so much of a "this is a garbage codex" as much as a "I live in an area with a soulless meta".

Sure however you want to put it. I play 3-5 games a weeks against different people who are almost always using lists that would be considered competitive in a tournament.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Wilytank wrote:

 Fulcrum wrote:
Of course this is only my situation, I can't speak for anyone else.

In other words, your problem isn't so much of a "this is a garbage codex" as much as a "I live in an area with a soulless meta".

I'd pity him if he wasn't being an hole to everyone.

I don't see that I'm being an donkey-cave to anyone grandpa, by nature I am competitive & analytical. Are you still upset I told someone else to blow themselves if they didn't have something constructive to say? Don't pity me, I win. I'm just not having nearly as much fun with the game as I was 15 years ago. Which is crazy because 2nd was filled to the brim with cheese & unbalance. I haven't seen any counter points to any of the points I brought up. Just a bunch of people saying that I am not allowed to say the book is bad because it hasn't been out long enough.

If you'd like to create a thread discussing about how underpowered the new codex is, please feel free to do so.

However, if you want to do that, then you need to refrain from using a highly inflammatory thread title (regardless of how true it may be) and posting brief sweeping derogatory comments to comprise the first post.

If you want a meaningful discussion on the topic then you need to start the conversation with some well-reasoned explanation, not just 5 completely dismissive and hyperbolic sentences.

So please restart the conversation properly and it won't get locked (as long as everyone plays nice and discusses their toy soldiers like adults).