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 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Except of course, every human has an inalienable right to self defense.

There is no such thing as an inalienable right.

Hence 1776....

 Frazzled wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Just because they might not shoot doesn't mean they wont. And I think this is just like a drivers license, you nee t see to work a gun just like a car.

Except of course, every human has an inalienable right to self defense. Drive a car, not so much.

But remember boys and girls, nobody walks in LA!

What is more important? The right of society or the right of individuals?


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Also, Maybe my reluctance is because i think of a nice old grannie who is blind ans using a walker wielding a dessert eagle when i think of blind people with guns

 Spacemanvic wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Except of course, every human has an inalienable right to self defense.

There is no such thing as an inalienable right.

Hence 1776....

Rights are an entirely human construct that can be removed at any time. However if you want to pretend that a piece of paper is magical protection against that, feel free.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Just because they might not shoot doesn't mean they wont. And I think this is just like a drivers license, you nee t see to work a gun just like a car.

Except of course, every human has an inalienable right to self defense. Drive a car, not so much.

But remember boys and girls, nobody walks in LA!

What is more important? The right of society or the right of individuals?

The right of the individual.

A society that does not respect the rights of the individual is a collective dictatorship.


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 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Spacemanvic wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Except of course, every human has an inalienable right to self defense.

There is no such thing as an inalienable right.

Hence 1776....

Rights are an entirely human construct that can be removed at any time. However if you want to pretend that a piece of paper is magical protection against that, feel free.

No, it was the bullets that convinced your ancestors. The paper only defined why they were getting shot.

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Except of course, every human has an inalienable right to self defense.

There is no such thing as an inalienable right.

I notice you almost never ask aliens that question.

So thr right for someone to wield or do something dangerous is more important then someones safety? Then why do we not allow people the right to drive even though they are blind?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So thr right for someone to wield or do something dangerous is more important then someones safety? Then why do we not allow people the right to drive even though they are blind?

Or drive drunk. Clearly my right to drive totally intoxicated should be more important than everyone elses right not to be run down when I fly off the road onto the sidewalk and into the corner store.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So thr right for someone to wield or do something dangerous is more important then someones safety? Then why do we not allow people the right to drive even though they are blind?

Because driving is NOT a right.

Then why is gun ownership an inalienable right? Because a piece of paper that is subject to the whims of law makers says so?

 Spacemanvic wrote:
No, it was the bullets that convinced your ancestors. The paper only defined why they were getting shot.

Ah, I see, you will simply ignore the point being made and spout some jingoistic crap.

No right is inalienable, as any right can be removed since they are not a fundamental element of the universe, but a (fairly recent in most cases) human invention.

 Spacemanvic wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So thr right for someone to wield or do something dangerous is more important then someones safety? Then why do we not allow people the right to drive even though they are blind?

Because driving is NOT a right.

Neither is walking into a movie theater and yelling fire (see, right != unrestricted/unregulated)

 Frazzled wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Just because they might not shoot doesn't mean they wont. And I think this is just like a drivers license, you nee t see to work a gun just like a car.

Except of course, every human has an inalienable right to self defense. Drive a car, not so much.

But remember boys and girls, nobody walks in LA!

What is more important? The right of society or the right of individuals?

"Society can suck my balls"
-Betsy Ross

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Maybe my reluctance is because i think of a nice old grannie who is blind ans using a walker wielding a dessert eagle when i think of blind people with guns

Thats why grandmas make the best assassins. You expect freshly baked chocolate chip cookies and its STAB STAB STAB STAB!!!


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 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Spacemanvic wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Except of course, every human has an inalienable right to self defense.

There is no such thing as an inalienable right.

Hence 1776....

Rights are an entirely human construct that can be removed at any time. However if you want to pretend that a piece of paper is magical protection against that, feel free.

Thats what the gun permits and blood sucking ACLU/NRA lawyers are for.

 Frazzled wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Except of course, every human has an inalienable right to self defense.

There is no such thing as an inalienable right.

I notice you almost never ask aliens that question.

I didn't ask a question, I made a statement. But given that, no, I have almost never asked aliens anything. Except for that one time...

We are just a few sets of votes away from changing any single thing we want on the constitution. We only have rights as long as congress and the states think we should have them.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So thr right for someone to wield or do something dangerous is more important then someones safety? Then why do we not allow people the right to drive even though they are blind?

Your rights end at my nose. Welcome to the Libertarian Party. Your aluminum hat and membership card are in the mail.


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 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Except of course, every human has an inalienable right to self defense.

There is no such thing as an inalienable right.

I notice you almost never ask aliens that question.

I didn't ask a question, I made a statement. But given that, no, I have almost never asked aliens anything. Except for that one time...

And look how badly that turned out...

 d-usa wrote:
We are just a few sets of votes away from changing any single thing we want on the constitution. We only have rights as long as congress and the states think we should have them.

And its not like the US government has shown that they'll happily ignore what our rights are and do something that a piece of paper says they shouldn't or anything.

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Spacemanvic wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Except of course, every human has an inalienable right to self defense.

There is no such thing as an inalienable right.

Hence 1776....

Rights are an entirely human construct that can be removed at any time. However if you want to pretend that a piece of paper is magical protection against that, feel free.

actually the whole "hold these truths to be self evident" is the part youneed to pay attention too,
peice of paper or not, we all have the inalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness,
the only one who can alienate it is ourselves.

Just give them assault cannons, they can't miss

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Then why is gun ownership an inalienable right? Because a piece of paper that is subject to the whims of law makers says so?

As enumerated (NOT provided) by the US Constitution.

You should read a lil bit on the US Constitution. It was written in such a way so as to not be "subject to the whims of the law makers".


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 pities2004 wrote:
Just give them assault cannons, they can't miss

Obviously, you've never seen my Space Marines shoot.....

 Spacemanvic wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Then why is gun ownership an inalienable right? Because a piece of paper that is subject to the whims of law makers says so?

As enumerated (NOT provided) by the US Constitution.

You should read a lil bit on the US Constitution. It was written in such a way so as to not be "subject to the whims of the law makers".


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 pities2004 wrote:
Just give them assault cannons, they can't miss

Obviously, you've never seen my Space Marines shoot.....

That whole amendment process is in there you know, and evidently you're unfamiliar with prohibition.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So thr right for someone to wield or do something dangerous is more important then someones safety? Then why do we not allow people the right to drive even though they are blind?

Can they still buy a car?

 pities2004 wrote:
Just give them assault cannons, they can't miss

Or a flamethrower. Thats even better. Template weapon - no BS required!

 d-usa wrote:
We are just a few sets of votes away from changing any single thing we want on the constitution. We only have rights as long as congress and the states think we should have them.

Let's see them try do away with the 2nd Amendment.......3 million+ people might have a say about that.....

 Frazzled wrote:

 pities2004 wrote:
Just give them assault cannons, they can't miss

Or a flamethrower. Thats even better. Template weapon - no BS required!

No BS in every sense of the word!

 LordofHats wrote:

 Spacemanvic wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Then why is gun ownership an inalienable right? Because a piece of paper that is subject to the whims of law makers says so?

As enumerated (NOT provided) by the US Constitution.

You should read a lil bit on the US Constitution. It was written in such a way so as to not be "subject to the whims of the law makers".


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 pities2004 wrote:
Just give them assault cannons, they can't miss

Obviously, you've never seen my Space Marines shoot.....

That whole amendment process is in there you know, and evidently you're unfamiliar with prohibition.

Refresh my memory, Prohibition was part of which of the 10 Amendments that make up the Bill of Rights?


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 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So thr right for someone to wield or do something dangerous is more important then someones safety? Then why do we not allow people the right to drive even though they are blind?

Can they still buy a car?

Not in his utopian society....

 Spacemanvic wrote:
Refresh my memory, Prohibition was part of which of the 10 Amendments that make up the Bill of Rights?

They're talking about the US Constitution as a whole, not a singular part of the document. The Constitution can be amended, and has been amended in the past.

 Spacemanvic wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Then why is gun ownership an inalienable right? Because a piece of paper that is subject to the whims of law makers says so?

As enumerated (NOT provided) by the US Constitution.

You should read a lil bit on the US Constitution. It was written in such a way so as to not be "subject to the whims of the law makers". .

Yet, the very first thing they did was to make ten changes to it...

It even has a section in the constitution saying how you can make changes to it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Spacemanvic wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
We are just a few sets of votes away from changing any single thing we want on the constitution. We only have rights as long as congress and the states think we should have them.

Let's see them try do away with the 2nd Amendment.......3 million+ people might have a say about that.....

They might, but that doesn't mean that the entire document can't be changed.

I was literally looking at a news tab and saw this story when I switched over the Dakka's page and realized someone posted about it. Gotta love Iowa!

Personally, I love my hands on my AR. But thank goodness I've still got operational eyesight.

 Spacemanvic wrote:


Refresh my memory, Prohibition was part of which of the 10 Amendments that make up the Bill of Rights?

The sheer fact that you miss than an amendment is an alteration to the Constitution, including Prohibition which was a political whim (just a famous example among many), says it all. There's nothing within the words of the Constitution that prevents congress from passing an amendment revoking another amendment including the first 10. All it takes is political will (which is unlikely to ever happen) but the Constitution is not an omnipotent deity that watches us from on high to make sure we're all happy and safe.

Society defines political rights and liberties, and society can change them.

 LordofHats wrote:

 Spacemanvic wrote:


Refresh my memory, Prohibition was part of which of the 10 Amendments that make up the Bill of Rights?

The sheer fact that you miss than an amendment is an alteration to the Constitution, including Prohibition which was a political whim (just a famous example among many), says it all. There's nothing within the words of the Constitution that prevents congress from passing an amendment revoking another amendment including the first 10. All it takes is political will (which is unlikely to ever happen) but the Constitution is not an omnipotent deity that watches us from on high to make sure we're all happy and safe.

Where did you go to school, my friend?