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So I run GK army and I am in the middle of an army reformat to kind of deal with all the new codices coming out, my old tactics are running into some problems. I run Coteaz but I have yet to actually put in Henchman of any kind, in fact, besides Coteaz, my army is nothing but grey knights. After running into some trouble with AV14 vehicles, I am putting in a vindicare assassin though but I am wondering if henchman might be worth it especially with their cheap cost but I also feel that they shred like paper. I have Draigo as well but he has just gotten too expensive and I am going to drop him to partner Coteaz with either a Librarian or just a Grand Master since I have become somewhat reliant on Draigo's Grand Strategy mechanic. I kind of feel like I am not using Coteaz to his fullest potential since I am not using this aspect of his abilities and was considering dropping him for just a plain Ordo Malleus =][=.

Well henchmen are less susceptible to grav cannons

I ran a henchmen squad with my GK at NOVA, and they were my most effective unit. Coteaz casting presience was great for twin linking their shots and they could sit in a table corner and with two space monkeys, effect most of the board. With three plasma acolytes, two space monkeys and Coteaz' "I've Been Expecting You", they wiped a squad of six CSM Bikers that outflanked into range, causing the biker lord to run off only to get killed by a force weapon later.

I normally run 1-3 Jokaero, a couple crusaders for saves, and I've had good success running plasma acolytes. I ran two squads allied with my SoB this last weekend, with a mix of Jokaero, HB Servitors, Crusaders and Coteaz on the quad gun. They did a lot of damage to my opponents orders guard list, blowing up his Firestorm Redoubt from across the board (Hammer and Anvil Deployment) and killing/wounding much of his force. It was pretty sweet.

I find the Crusaders (and possibly some cheap acolytes) to be great point bullet pillows and with Coteaz' leadership, they'll stick around.

Just my .02 on that one.

The henchmen can form any tool you need them to be.
Think what you want to use them for and kit them out accordingly.
I agree that the Crusaders give some good durability.
Plasma in it's many forms always excites.
The space monkeys no matter how corny, are really good. Plus they give random upgrades!

Good Luck!

First off, how are henchman less susceptible to grav weaponry?

Second off, I didn't realize that henchman could be that effective. I am highly considering them now. For Acolytes, what did you use for models? Just random IG models?

Relatively, since the decline of draigowing and purifier spam, henchmen are the strongest way to run GK.

Absolutely, henchmen are crazy. Crusaders give you stormshields for practically free. A unit of 8 crusaders with axes and two DCAs with mace+axe costs practically nothing, and can beat almost anything shy of a swarmlord or a big pile of khorne berzerkers in close combat. Meanwhile, you can take henchmen with power armor in joakero squads to have a decent chance of being way cheaper near-terminators. Or you can take shooty squads. 10 point multimelta servitors are absurdly cheap for what you get, and special weapon warriors aren't exactly expensive either. Throw a small pile of them in a chimera with a prescience inquisitor and they're one of the best defensive units in the entire game for their cost. Or you could do the S10 Ap~1 psyker squad that can beat some serious face, and, once again, do it for very cheap.

And they all score. Making them some of the best troops in the game when coteaz is around.

Henchmen are definitely worth it.

I use cadians for my henchmen, but you can find old metal Inquisition specific henchmen on eBay, here or Bartertown sometimes. The IG command squad has some solid bits for your henchmen, or you can just buy extra plasma, chainswords, etc. to build yours.

Yes, they absolutely are.

Step 1: Take Coteaz. I see you already do that, so good on you.
Step 2: Make any one of the following mini-lists. (these are the configurations I usually use, give or take)
Step 3: Profit

Melee Wrecking Ball
10-11 Death Cult Assassins.
1-2 Crusaders (to tank wounds)
1 Cheap Razorback with Heavy Bolter and psi-ammunition for backup.

Melee Wrecking Ball II
5 Death Cult Assassins.
1 Crusader (to tank wounds)
1 Cheap Razorback with Heavy Bolter and psi-ammunition to ride around in.

Blasts, Oh lord the Blasts! (AP 1 Str 10 Large Blast)
8 Psykers
1 Crusader (just in case you roll perils so you don't lose your whole squad)
1 Rhino to carry them 'round in.

Space Monkeys! (lots of AP1-2 shooting)
2 Jokaero
Three special weapons Warrior Acolytes with plasma guns and 3+ armor
3 Servitors with multi-meltas
'Prescience' Psychic Inquisitor
1 Chimera to shoot out of, if need be

Bodyguards (perfect accompaniment to a Librarian with 'The Summoning')
1 Mystic
7-9 Crusaders
2-3 Death Cult Assassins

Yes Henchmen are great for many of the reasons noted already, but don't get sucked into the Psyker trap, S10 AP1 blasts sound great but not when they have such a low chance of hitting. It is an approximately 28% chance to get a direct hit with that power IIRC, and one of those successful result wipes the squad out in the process. Not a very good unit at all.

Add in the Plasma Barrage Squad.

2x Crusaders
3x Servitors with Plasma Cannons

add in Coteaz/Inquisitor with Prescience

This now brings up another question now that people are bringing up Divination, do I have to take the presets of psyker power detailed in the Grey Knights codex or can I choose to take something from the psyker power list in the main rule book or does someone like Coteaz get access to both at the same time? Divination would significantly change things for all this plasma and especially with any psycannons I do decide to take.

Well, they CAN be prescienced.

More interestingly, though, a person at my FLGS has started throwing a few servo skulls in his list. Servo skulls that are only destroyed if your opponent moves within 6", but if your opponent is between 6 and 12", you only roll one scatter die for those blast weapons.

I've always wanted to run:
9 Henchmen
6x Psyker (for S8 AP1 Large Blast)
3x Warrior Acolyte w/ Plasma Gun
Chimera

For 157 that's pretty good. For comparison a meltavet squad will cost you 155 (but have BS4 over 3).

... but don't come with an Ap1 large blast with lots and lots of range. Plus, a chimera holds up to 12, which means for pittance more, that can be S9 Ap1, or S10 Ap1. And it still gets the chimera weapons, and it still gets the plasma guns.

 Envihon wrote:
This now brings up another question now that people are bringing up Divination, do I have to take the presets of psyker power detailed in the Grey Knights codex or can I choose to take something from the psyker power list in the main rule book or does someone like Coteaz get access to both at the same time? Divination would significantly change things for all this plasma and especially with any psycannons I do decide to take.

Since the GK Codex is not a 6th Edition Codex, you must choose A) keep the Codex powers -OR- B) Roll on BRB powers (see the current FAQ for how our psychers do this). Unlike the new 6th Edition Codices, GK may NOT use a mix of Codex and BRB powers on the same character at the same time. GK will have to wait at least until it gets a new Codex to be able to mix and match.

So, in the case of Coteaz, he would do the following. First, he would drop Dark Excommunication, Hammerhand, and Sanctuary. Then he would roll for "two powers from either the Divination, Pyromancy or Telekinesis disciplines (in any combination)" In this case we will roll on Divination twice hoping for something good, and take the Primaris (Prescience) with the other roll. I'd say that foreboding/forewarning can be ok depending what unit you plan on running Coteaz with. Misfortune, Perfect Timing, and Precognition are keepers if you get them first roll. Scriers Gaze is an auto-drop to get Prescience if you get it on the first roll (unless your army is heavy on Reserves/Outflank).

 Ailaros wrote:
... but don't come with an Ap1 large blast with lots and lots of range. Plus, a chimera holds up to 12, which means for pittance more, that can be S9 Ap1, or S10 Ap1. And it still gets the chimera weapons, and it still gets the plasma guns.

Only keep in mind that any Psykers in the chimera MUST disembark before they can start throwing around those S9 or S10 pie plates.

"Q: Can Psykers use a Transport’s Fire Point(s) to manifest powers that require line of sight whilst still embarked? (p78)
A: No. Note, however, that witchfire powers specifically allow you to do so and are the one exception to this rule."

 Ailaros wrote:
... but don't come with an Ap1 large blast with lots and lots of range. Plus, a chimera holds up to 12, which means for pittance more, that can be S9 Ap1, or S10 Ap1. And it still gets the chimera weapons, and it still gets the plasma guns.

You're absolutely right, they can pump out nastier blasts than S8 Ap1, but I don't think I'll need S9 or 10 for targets where the plasma gun won't do much. Even S8 will obliterate TEQ and up, plus threaten light armor, and I save 20 points which for me looks like psybolt ammo on a squad.

In the grand scheme I want to run them as allies with mech IG, so I figure 2 more Chimeras with different abilities for a nice price isn't a bad addition.

 w0lfgang7 wrote:

 Envihon wrote:
This now brings up another question now that people are bringing up Divination, do I have to take the presets of psyker power detailed in the Grey Knights codex or can I choose to take something from the psyker power list in the main rule book or does someone like Coteaz get access to both at the same time? Divination would significantly change things for all this plasma and especially with any psycannons I do decide to take.

Since the GK Codex is not a 6th Edition Codex, you must choose A) keep the Codex powers -OR- B) Roll on BRB powers (see the current FAQ for how our psychers do this). Unlike the new 6th Edition Codices, GK may NOT use a mix of Codex and BRB powers on the same character at the same time. GK will have to wait at least until it gets a new Codex to be able to mix and match.

So, in the case of Coteaz, he would do the following. First, he would drop Dark Excommunication, Hammerhand, and Sanctuary. Then he would roll for "two powers from either the Divination, Pyromancy or Telekinesis disciplines (in any combination)" In this case we will roll on Divination twice hoping for something good, and take the Primaris (Prescience) with the other roll. I'd say that foreboding/forewarning can be ok depending what unit you plan on running Coteaz with. Misfortune, Perfect Timing, and Precognition are keepers if you get them first roll. Scriers Gaze is an auto-drop to get Prescience if you get it on the first roll (unless your army is heavy on Reserves/Outflank).

 Ailaros wrote:
... but don't come with an Ap1 large blast with lots and lots of range. Plus, a chimera holds up to 12, which means for pittance more, that can be S9 Ap1, or S10 Ap1. And it still gets the chimera weapons, and it still gets the plasma guns.

Only keep in mind that any Psykers in the chimera MUST disembark before they can start throwing around those S9 or S10 pie plates.

"Q: Can Psykers use a Transport’s Fire Point(s) to manifest powers that require line of sight whilst still embarked? (p78)
A: No. Note, however, that witchfire powers specifically allow you to do so and are the one exception to this rule."

Even though they ability is from a 5th ed book, the 6th ed rulebook makes these powers count as witchfire powers. Therefore can be fired from the chimera.

GK Codex pg51 "Psychic barrage: Pyschic shooting attack with the following profile."
Main Rulebook pg 69 "Witchfire powers are often refereed to as psychic shooting attacks."

Psychic Shooting attack = witchfire power = shooting from inside transport.

Rules source? I've seen nothing to say you count old psychic shooting attacks as witchfire. I think you are just making an assumption here.

The rules that I quoted are from the current FAQ. The psykers, needing LOS, may not use their shooting attack/aka witchfire inside any transport. Unless I'm missing something. (which would be cool, 'cause pie plates on the move sounds like fun!)

---edit for a typo---

 w0lfgang7 wrote:
The rules that I quoted are from the current FAQ. The psykers, needing LOS, may not use their shooting attack/aka witchfire inside any transport. Unless I'm missing something. (which would be cool, 'cause pie plates on the move sounds like fun!)

---edit for a typo---

I wasn't asking you for rules, I was asking Coyote who has made an assertion that all powers in old codices listed as psychic shooting attacks now count as witchfire, a rule I have never seen anywhere.

GK codex, pg. 51: Psychic barrage. The psykers can unleash a powerful psychic shooting attack with the following profile...

BRB Pg. 69: Witchfire. Witchfire powers are often referred to as psychic shooting attacks.

BRB pg. 69: Witchfire. Note that, as awitchfire is a SHooting attack, a Psyker embarked on a vehicle can target an enemy outside that vehicle by using a Fire Point.

So no, the psykers don't have to disembark to shoot their large blast.

And you don't need S9 or 10 to hurt infantry units, but S10 Ap1 is phenominal against vehicles. Coteaz (for prescience) with 3 plasma warriors and a psychic squad is capable of handling any unit in the game. With two fewer psykers, you lose the ability to handle many vehicles at most ranges.

 Ailaros wrote:


BRB pg. 69: Witchfire. Note that, as awitchfire is a SHooting attack, a Psyker embarked on a vehicle can target an enemy outside that vehicle by using a Fire Point.

So no, the psykers don't have to disembark to shoot their large blast.

It's nice to find something new and be proven wrong sometimes. Great legwork Ailaros!!! Way to string all of the rules together. Thanks too for including the page numbers; made them real easy to find, so now I can repeat the process for anyone if I need to.

Now to get a nice shiny new chimera to try out this new (ok, pre-existing) mobile psyker shooting unit out with!

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Rules source?

Page 69, BRB: Witchfire powers are often referred to as psychic shooting attacks. .

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
I've seen nothing to say you count old psychic shooting attacks as witchfire. I think you are just making an assumption here.

If PSA is not a Witchfire, what rules have you used to resolve PSA? Your position also means PSA's don't need LOS, can be used if Psyker has ran, can be used while engaged in CC, can shoot at different target etc.

Or have you been using Witchfire rules to resolve old style PSA's, while arguing that they're not Witchfires at the same time? That position is not consistent at all.

w0lfgang7 wrote:The rules that I quoted are from the current FAQ. The psykers, needing LOS, may not use their shooting attack/aka witchfire inside any transport

You misread the FAQ. Witchfires are the exception to the rule, just as the FAQ says.

BRB FAQ wrote: Q: Can Psykers use a Transport’s Fire Point(s) to manifest powers that require line of sight whilst still embarked? (p78)
A: No. Note, however, that witchfire powers specifically allow you to do so and are the one exception to this rule.

The actual rules are found on page 69: Note that, as witchfire is a Shooting attack,a Psyker embarked on a vehicle can target an enemy outside that vehicle by using a Fire Point.

 Ailaros wrote:

And you don't need S9 or 10 to hurt infantry units, but S10 Ap1 is phenominal against vehicles. Coteaz (for prescience) with 3 plasma warriors and a psychic squad is capable of handling any unit in the game. With two fewer psykers, you lose the ability to handle many vehicles at most ranges.

Not to threadjack, but does Coteaz have any other use when allied with IG?
I can see myself taking one Chimera with him and 3 plasmas and S10 blast. The other would only be up to S8.

Coteaz makes every list better, there are no exceptions. This is what he brings to the table:

Level 2 Psyker with access to the Divination Table (Twin-linking everything, including melee attacks is some good I hear, not to mention the potential to make an enemy re-roll their successful saves or 4+ Invulnerable saves on the entire unit)
2+ Armor
Master-crafted Daemon Hammer (Str-6, Force, Concussive)
3 Wounds
Stubborn USR
Deepstrike area denial.
'Seize the Initative' shenanigans (65% chance of going first every game? yes please!)

You get all of the above for the low, low price of one HQ selection and a handful of points. Act now, and he'll also throw in Cheap, Plentiful, and Awesome extra troop choices at no extra cost!

Melee henchmen (Crusaders, Deathcult) are just awesome-sauce. Delivering them can be a pain (unless you buy a Raven or LR) but they make great counter charge units if you want to play the shooting game or are using them as allied to a Xenos race like Tau. I throw in a banisher just to make Daemons re-roll their invulnerable save.

Coteaz's "I've been expecting you" ability is like interceptor+ It's amazing - You want a big unit to sit him in - maybe behind an aegis wall and spread out so you can cover a large portion of the board. 6 psykers, 3 plasma servitors, and either henchmen or crusaders for bodies makes a great area denial weapon sitting with Coteaz.

First off, if you are more interested in henchmen, there are 2 articles in my signature.


Henchmen are the most diverse unit in all of 40k. I would argue that this single unit has more diversity than some entire codexes in terms of statlines, wargear, special rules and unit builds.

You can build the ultimate in MSU units
You can build strong long range or short range shooting units
You can build one of the scariest close combat units in the game.

Or you can do a mix of any of the above, all in a single unit.


Few things that I do not see other people use that I like

1) Daemonhost are Reasonable.

Are they competitive? not at all really, but they are decent enough that you are not sad taking them.
10 points for a 5++ save and T4 is not bad. Throw in a 50% chance to get a decent power each turn.
Upgrade a 5 pt bolter dude to a 10 point Daemonhost is a reasonable way to add some extra durability and damage to a unit.



2) Servo skulls are very powerful for henchmen / GK

Nuke an enemy psyker with mind strike missiles that have a max scatter of 2"

Place objectives in the open. You hold them with 3++ on crusaders, or 5++ on Daemonhosts, no need for you to have cover. Enemy tries to take the Objective, the nearby skull pounds them with Plasma or Psyker blasts with Low AP, Basically no scatter and no cover. They have to move off of the objective to get rid of the skulls.

Place one near your fire base. Allows you to fire blasts close to your own units with a Max scatter of 3". No need to fear of scattering on your own stuff.

There is good infiltrating location in the middle of the board (large ruin or something). Both players have infiltrators. Use the skull to keep the enemy from taking that location so your Vindicare can take it for himself.



3) More than one use for psykers

Big unit of 8 for the S10 AP1 is fun.

Alternative use, put a single psyker in each of your MSU plasma units in chimeras. Gives you long range, anti- horde firepower. Multiple S3 blasts are better against cover than a single low AP blast. Compliments the Elite killing power of your many plasma guns well.



4) 3 dudes with meltas in a Storm raven.

Paratroop out of the back so you don't have to hover. Low points investment, high damage potential, Mobile scoring unit for late game objective theft.

 Envihon wrote:
So I run GK army and I am in the middle of an army reformat to kind of deal with all the new codices coming out, my old tactics are running into some problems. I run Coteaz but I have yet to actually put in Henchman of any kind, in fact, besides Coteaz, my army is nothing but grey knights.

Coteaz is great for what he brings, he's probably the best HQ in the game value wise. Keep him. You can put him with some PC Servitors and a bunch of bolter or storm bolter acolytes. Or run him with your GK guys and just take some cheap Henchmen squads to sit back and hold objectives. 10 bolter guys is 50 points, with a chimera 105. That only gets you 5 GKSS guys with no transport and no psycannon.

Hardly. Coteaz has some beaty abilities, but is vastly outclassed by other options. That hammer looks cool until you realise that it's S6 and comes on an easy-to-instant-death T3 model who doesn't come with an invul save. An imperial guard officer with a powerfist is beatier.

Meanwhile, Coteaz brings deepstrike denial to an army literally packed with deepstrike denial. You don't need expectation when you have warpquake everywhere. The only time that this is useful is if you don't have warpquake - namely, if you're taking a henchmen army. Outside of henchmen, though, there isn't much to worry about.

Also, other stuff in the codex has access to divination, including more powers. And coteaz has to give up hammerhand to take them.

The only thing coteaz really does is allow you to much more reliably take and hold first turn, and to make henchmen scoring. Outside of that, he's pretty lame compared to the rest of the options in the codex, much less being one of the best HQs in the entire game.

LOL, Ailaros, you're hilarious. Be careful though, the OP will think you'll serious.