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I still think Salamanders (with Vulcan) have an edge, if you use LoTD.
His special rule makes all melta Mc in his detachment.. including the cover ignoring melta and multi melta on LoTD, who happen to be SnP.
The LoTD don't benefit from CT, but Vulcan's special rule is not a CT.
So that's about 155pts for 5 deep striking (precise deepstriking) 3++ melta toting marines who ignore cover and can unload all weaponry on arrival, not too shabby.
And if you ally in UM with Tiggy, you can make sure they get there when you want them.

That is, until they faq this.

Drahad wrote:
I still think Salamanders (with Vulcan) have an edge, if you use LoTD.
His special rule makes all melta Mc in his detachment.. including the cover ignoring melta and multi melta on LoTD, who happen to be SnP.
The LoTD don't benefit from CT, but Vulcan's special rule is not a CT.
So that's about 155pts for 5 deep striking (precise deepstriking) 3++ melta toting marines who ignore cover and can unload all weaponry on arrival, not too shabby.
And if you ally in UM with Tiggy, you can make sure they get there when you want them.

That is, until they faq this.

Except only 1 melta can be carried and if they are in the Salamanders detachment the Tiggy reserve rules won't affect them.

1 melta, Multi melta and combo melta is the idea I believe. And yes that's a very good unit that RAW is MC and ignores cover... Nasty! I however like Ultramarines for Drop Pod lists.

Nice thread, The Shrike, I'm picking up some good tips here

So your all ready to pod in...your opponent then keeps his big scary stuff in reserves, and puts the half he can on the table. spread out, which weakens your force because you either come at him singly, weakening the alpha strike, or you end up all in one area....and his reserves come in across the board.

What the lists need are drop units with long range firepower to supplement the army.

General Hobbs wrote:


So your all ready to pod in...your opponent then keeps his big scary stuff in reserves, and puts the half he can on the table. spread out, which weakens your force because you either come at him singly, weakening the alpha strike, or you end up all in one area....and his reserves come in across the board.

What the lists need are drop units with long range firepower to supplement the army.

Hence the Thunderfire Cannons and Stormtalons.

General Hobbs wrote:


So your all ready to pod in...your opponent then keeps his big scary stuff in reserves, and puts the half he can on the table. spread out, which weakens your force because you either come at him singly, weakening the alpha strike, or you end up all in one area....and his reserves come in across the board.

What the lists need are drop units with long range firepower to supplement the army.

So, he keeps his heavy firepower in reserve? That's not always a good idea. Now you have left your squishy stuff on the board for me to focus on and then just take your reserves piecemeal. Don't forget that with pods, I choose which ones come in first. If you want to wait to bring in powerful units, I can too.

Pods allow for extreme flexibility, especially with deployment and combat squads. I can always make sure, the unit I want, will be exactly where I want it, when I want it (barring poor reserve rolls, but that's what Comms Relay is for )

The long range firepower you are looking for isn't in the pod or dropping in (if it's long range, why drop in? ) . It's the heavy weapon in a combat squad deployed normally, next to a thunderfire cannon in bolstered terrain.

General Hobbs wrote:

Drahad wrote:
I still think Salamanders (with Vulcan) have an edge, if you use LoTD.
His special rule makes all melta Mc in his detachment.. including the cover ignoring melta and multi melta on LoTD, who happen to be SnP.
The LoTD don't benefit from CT, but Vulcan's special rule is not a CT.
So that's about 155pts for 5 deep striking (precise deepstriking) 3++ melta toting marines who ignore cover and can unload all weaponry on arrival, not too shabby.
And if you ally in UM with Tiggy, you can make sure they get there when you want them.

That is, until they faq this.

Except only 1 melta can be carried and if they are in the Salamanders detachment the Tiggy reserve rules won't affect them.

1 melta, 1 multimelta, 1 combimelta.. and tiggy has acces to divination (and thus scrier's gaze) a 75% chance to get it.

Drahad wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:

Drahad wrote:
I still think Salamanders (with Vulcan) have an edge, if you use LoTD.
His special rule makes all melta Mc in his detachment.. including the cover ignoring melta and multi melta on LoTD, who happen to be SnP.
The LoTD don't benefit from CT, but Vulcan's special rule is not a CT.
So that's about 155pts for 5 deep striking (precise deepstriking) 3++ melta toting marines who ignore cover and can unload all weaponry on arrival, not too shabby.
And if you ally in UM with Tiggy, you can make sure they get there when you want them.

That is, until they faq this.

Except only 1 melta can be carried and if they are in the Salamanders detachment the Tiggy reserve rules won't affect them.

1 melta, 1 multimelta, 1 combimelta.. and tiggy has acces to divination (and thus scrier's gaze) a 75% chance to get it.

Ah, didn't think of that. Thanks.

HQ: 350 points
Tigurius
165 points
Cato Sicarius
185 points

Elites: 320 points
9 Sternguard and Sergeant
Heavy Flamers/4 combi-plasma/ Sergeant has meltabombs
Drop Pod Transport
320 points

Troops: 660 points
9 Tactical Marines and Sergeant
meltagun, missile Launcher, combi-melta
Drop pod
210 points

4 Tactical Marines and Sergeant
Flamer, combi-flamer
Drop pod
120 points

9 Tactical Marines and Sergeant
meltagun, missile Launcher, combi-melta
Drop pod
210 points

4 Tactical Marines and Sergeant
Flamer, combi-flamer
Drop pod
120 points

Fast Attack: 250 points
Storm Talon Gunship with Skyhammer Launcher
125 points
Storm Talon Gunship with Skyhammer Launcher
125 points

Heavy Support:
Thunderfire Cannon with Drop pod
135 points
Thunderfire Cannon with Drop pod
135 points

1850 on the nose.

 Redbeard wrote:


A) No.

The point of a pod list isn't to get as many pods on the table as possible, it's to get as many marines where you need them as possible. Putting combat squads in pods means you're paying for extra pods that you neither want, nor need.

This is wrong, completely. The whole point of a Drop Pod army is to Alpha Strike the first turn and do as much damage as possible. Spamming 5 man squads with special weapons is a VERY effective tactic as it creates so many targets for your opponent to shoot at, intercept ect. that no matter what some are going to survive. I ran a list at 2000pts. with x13 drop pods and wiped out a very good Tau army with it, he could not kill everything as there was to much on the table.

Now in regards to what I have found effective this is a "ODST" themed Drop Pod army that I have been playing with:

HQ:

-Tigirius

ELITES:

-x5 Sternguard
*w/ x2 Heavy Flamer
-Pod

-x5 Sternguard
*w/ x2 Heavy Flamer
-Pod

-x5 Sternguard
*w/ x2 Heavy Flamer
-Pod

TROOPS:

-x5 Tac Marines
*w/ Melta
-Pod

-x5 Tac Marines
*w/ Melta
-Pod

-x5 Tac Marines
*w/ Melta
-Pod

-x5 Tac Marines
*w/ Melta
-Pod

-x5 Tac Marines
*w/ Melta
-Pod

-x5 Tac Marines
*w/ Melta
-Pod

FAST ATTACK:

-Storm Talon
*w/ Skyhammer Missiles

-Storm Talon
*w/ Skyhammer Missiles

HEAVY SUPPORT:

-Thunderfire Cannon

-Thunderfire Cannon
-Pod

-Thunderfire Cannon
-Pod

TOTAL ARMY: 2000 POINTS

Tactics:

-Between the Sternguard and Thunderfire Cannons there should be plenty there to handle my anti infantry duties with the TAC squads soley kitted out to handle any armor I may come across along with the Storm Talons.

-Tigirius is there so when he comes down he can phsycic shirek and cast other awesome spells to buff my guys even more, that and since he comes with the Warlord Trait to re-roll hits with all units within 12 inches means he can basically use that tactic twice.

Alpha strike is not the only purpose to a pod army... All be it that it is a nice thing and very important to still be able to deliver a powerful alpha strike, but pods can be used to secure key objectives late game, or simply as a one way transport to get your unit across the field in one turn. Don't underestimate the tactical possibilities of the drop pod.

i don't think there doctrine affects the special issue ammo

 Super Ready wrote:
I agree on Salamanders and actually reckon they'll do better than Space Wolves for it. It's all down to that alpha strike. Sternguard should be given heavy flamers and a couple of combi-flamers for anti-infantry, with the bolters firing either ignores cover or 2+ wound - Tactical squads should be given melta for armour. Just use those rerolls to take out as much as is possible, barring poor dice or *really* spread out enemy deployment you should have a great advantage from the start.

Thunderfires should be left to fire last to tackle anything left - if there's a dangerous unit set to counter-attack they can use Tremor to hopefully stop them from charging, and with Sternguard the flamers should help there too.

While Sternguard are more expensive than combi-armed Wolf Guard the latter don't get the heavy flamer, and the Tac squads should be just a little cheaper than Grey Hunters, so the points cost isn't an issue. If you've done enough damage on the drop then the risk of counter-attack that Space Wolves get to laugh at shouldn't really matter much anyway.

A sm taq squad, with 10 men strong with two flamers, normal sgt with combi-flamer and drop pod, they are 195 pts, 205 if you give them two meltas

A grey hunters pack, 10 hunters strong, with two flamers and the drop pod, they cost 185 pts, with one less flamer, if you give them the two melta 190 pts, you have one less special weapon because the lack of the sgt, but you have counterattack and 2A on each grey hunter, if you toolup the pack is more expensive
Here is other, 10 gh, 2 flamers, plasma pistol and the drop pod, 200 pts, same like before, 205 with meltas
If you want a real assult force 10 Gh, 2 flamers, power axe, wolf standard, mark of wulfen and the drop pod 230pts, 235 pts with melta, thats give you, a hole squad with 2A base, rerolls of ALL 1´s in one assault phase per game (that mean you reroll 1´s to hit, to wound, armour save, inv save, and, if you give them with biomancy, feel no pain) a power weapon and a beast with d6+1A with rending, just for 35 more poinst than the tac squad, that a huge difference betwen the gh and the tac, the gh keep the title of best close quarter unit

10 Sternguar, 9 combi-weapons, heavy flamer and the drop pod, 365 pts , thats so expensive

The wolf guard is another history, 9 Wolfguards with 8combi-weapon, one wolfguard on tda with power axe and heavy flamer, and the drop pod 257 pts, the wolves keep the upper hand, you have again, counterattack, one 2+/5++ sv and one power weapon, for 108 point less than the sternguard, thats a win in cost-benefit , the stern guard have special amunition, the wolf guard have hairy brass balls , they dont need them, they can have more melee weapons with that 108 points or maybe buy some plasma pistols or maybe some storm shieds, even with one less men, and only because to have access to the heavy flamer, the wg are more costeffective, drop another man and join a wolf priest with pe and give the hole squad combi-plasma and, instead the heavy flamer, give them the assault canon, and you have a really dakka unit that can kill almost everything in just 1 volley of firing...
They keep the title as a really good drop pod assault army, considering that is a 5thed codex

Nevermind.

 anyeri wrote:
*snip*

You need to ensure you play to the strengths of the SM's. Wolfs have bolt pistols, counterattack and fancy cc upgrades. With SM you need to make use of the chapter tactics, relentless grav weapons, MC flamers/meltas etc etc

I'm loving this as a list building exercise, hopefully we can have a best of drop summary at some point!

Also, don't forget we're not supposed to be listing points :-)

gmaleron wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:


A) No.

The point of a pod list isn't to get as many pods on the table as possible, it's to get as many marines where you need them as possible. Putting combat squads in pods means you're paying for extra pods that you neither want, nor need.

This is wrong, completely. The whole point of a Drop Pod army is to Alpha Strike the first turn and do as much damage as possible. Spamming 5 man squads with special weapons is a VERY effective tactic as it creates so many targets for your opponent to shoot at, intercept ect. that no matter what some are going to survive. I ran a list at 2000pts. with x13 drop pods and wiped out a very good Tau army with it, he could not kill everything as there was to much on the table.

I find this hard to believe. Unless the Tau player just wasn't good. I know my Tau list wouldn't bat an eye at 7 drop-pods landing on turn 1, because you'd drop into a kroot screen and all that alpha-striking would be spent killing 20 cheap models, after which, the rest of the army's firepower would cripple you.

5-man spam squads mean you're paying a 35 point tax for each 80 point payload. Pods just aren't all that useful once on the ground, and their stormbolters aren't adding to your capabilities. This is simply inefficient. I've seen how successful pod lists work in competitive environments (GTs and the like), and min-sized squads just doesn't get it done, at least not in the last edition, and I see no reason to believe that would start to be effective now.

Consider that, given the list you present below, I can combine

6x

-x5 Tac Marines
*w/ Melta
-Pod

Which costs you 115 points/pod, for a total of 690 points, into:

3x

x10 tac marines, w/ melta & combi-melta
- Pod

Which costs me 195 each, or a total of 585.

I save 100 points. I can buy an assault marine pod with dual flamers for 95, and have 5 points left over, maybe meltabombs for the assault sgt.

What do I lose? 2 pods w/ stormbolters, and 3 non-alpha-strike melta shots. I gain 5 more bodies, 3 bolters and 2 flamers (and a meltabomb).

You had 11 pods, meaning you got to land 6 on turn 1, assuming these would be the 3 sternguard and 3 tacticals. I've got 9 pods, so I get to land 5, now 3 sternguard and 2 tactical. We've got the same sternguard, but I'm dropping 20 tactical marines to your 15. I can actually take more melta shots against more targets off the drop than you can. I can also alter my combat squads at deployment time, so that I'm doubling up the meltas where needed and leaving 5-man bolter squads to handle scoring drops. Or I can swap out a tac pod for that dual-flamer pod against infantry heavy opponents. I have more flexibility, more bodies, and better alpha-strike capability. You have more immobile pods.

---

A comment on your list:

just2fierce wrote:

4 Tactical Marines and Sergeant
Flamer, combi-flamer
Drop pod
120 points

Unless you're relying on these for scoring, you can do this sort of pod much cheaper with assault marines;

4 assault marines + Sgt
2 flamers
free drop pod
95 points.

That's a 25 point discount. What's more, I think the assault marines synergize better with the CC HQ units (they were going in this pod, yes?) . Those 25 points can then go into that sgt to give him a power fist or something.

Just for giggles, don't forget the deathstorm drop pod from Imperial armor. I kinda like the idea of taking it over the thunderfire cannon. It seems to fit more in a way.

 anyeri wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:
I agree on Salamanders and actually reckon they'll do better than Space Wolves for it. It's all down to that alpha strike. Sternguard should be given heavy flamers and a couple of combi-flamers for anti-infantry, with the bolters firing either ignores cover or 2+ wound - Tactical squads should be given melta for armour. Just use those rerolls to take out as much as is possible, barring poor dice or *really* spread out enemy deployment you should have a great advantage from the start.

Thunderfires should be left to fire last to tackle anything left - if there's a dangerous unit set to counter-attack they can use Tremor to hopefully stop them from charging, and with Sternguard the flamers should help there too.

While Sternguard are more expensive than combi-armed Wolf Guard the latter don't get the heavy flamer, and the Tac squads should be just a little cheaper than Grey Hunters, so the points cost isn't an issue. If you've done enough damage on the drop then the risk of counter-attack that Space Wolves get to laugh at shouldn't really matter much anyway.

A sm taq squad, with 10 men strong with two flamers, normal sgt with combi-flamer and drop pod, they are 195 pts, 205 if you give them two meltas

A grey hunters pack, 10 hunters strong, with two flamers and the drop pod, they cost 185 pts, with one less flamer, if you give them the two melta 190 pts, you have one less special weapon because the lack of the sgt, but you have counterattack and 2A on each grey hunter, if you toolup the pack is more expensive
Here is other, 10 gh, 2 flamers, plasma pistol and the drop pod, 200 pts, same like before, 205 with meltas
If you want a real assult force 10 Gh, 2 flamers, power axe, wolf standard, mark of wulfen and the drop pod 230pts, 235 pts with melta, thats give you, a hole squad with 2A base, rerolls of ALL 1´s in one assault phase per game (that mean you reroll 1´s to hit, to wound, armour save, inv save, and, if you give them with biomancy, feel no pain) a power weapon and a beast with d6+1A with rending, just for 35 more poinst than the tac squad, that a huge difference betwen the gh and the tac, the gh keep the title of best close quarter unit

10 Sternguar, 9 combi-weapons, heavy flamer and the drop pod, 365 pts , thats so expensive

The wolf guard is another history, 9 Wolfguards with 8combi-weapon, one wolfguard on tda with power axe and heavy flamer, and the drop pod 257 pts, the wolves keep the upper hand, you have again, counterattack, one 2+/5++ sv and one power weapon, for 108 point less than the sternguard, thats a win in cost-benefit , the stern guard have special amunition, the wolf guard have hairy brass balls , they dont need them, they can have more melee weapons with that 108 points or maybe buy some plasma pistols or maybe some storm shieds, even with one less men, and only because to have access to the heavy flamer, the wg are more costeffective, drop another man and join a wolf priest with pe and give the hole squad combi-plasma and, instead the heavy flamer, give them the assault canon, and you have a really dakka unit that can kill almost everything in just 1 volley of firing...
They keep the title as a really good drop pod assault army, considering that is a 5thed codex

SM tac squads cannot take 2 flamers and a combi-flamer, it's 1 special, 1 heavy, and 1 combi.

Any love for an Imperial Fist drop list? I was thinking that the bolter drill and Tank Hunters would be pretty good.

I want to make a drop list as well, but want to make it a little more CC oriented. At first i though Templars, but I want to be able to take librarians in the list if I felt the need without taking allies.

yeah, I was just taking it for another scoring unit but the Assault squad being cheaper is just as good and better suited for that role. Sicarius and Tigurius work well together, imo.

thanks redbeard, I'm going to make that change.

 Redbeard wrote:

gmaleron wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:


A) No.

The point of a pod list isn't to get as many pods on the table as possible, it's to get as many marines where you need them as possible. Putting combat squads in pods means you're paying for extra pods that you neither want, nor need.

This is wrong, completely. The whole point of a Drop Pod army is to Alpha Strike the first turn and do as much damage as possible. Spamming 5 man squads with special weapons is a VERY effective tactic as it creates so many targets for your opponent to shoot at, intercept ect. that no matter what some are going to survive. I ran a list at 2000pts. with x13 drop pods and wiped out a very good Tau army with it, he could not kill everything as there was to much on the table.

I find this hard to believe. Unless the Tau player just wasn't good. I know my Tau list wouldn't bat an eye at 7 drop-pods landing on turn 1, because you'd drop into a kroot screen and all that alpha-striking would be spent killing 20 cheap models, after which, the rest of the army's firepower would cripple you.

5-man spam squads mean you're paying a 35 point tax for each 80 point payload. Pods just aren't all that useful once on the ground, and their stormbolters aren't adding to your capabilities. This is simply inefficient. I've seen how successful pod lists work in competitive environments (GTs and the like), and min-sized squads just doesn't get it done, at least not in the last edition, and I see no reason to believe that would start to be effective now.

The Tau player was quite good thank you (has won a few tournaments at my FLGS and we are a very competitive and very good game store) however he does not run a Kroot Screen as he does not like Kroot. That being said he did have x3 Riptides, x6 Broadsides and a ton of Firewarriros and I was able to take it to them thanks to some risky drops that paid off and good rolls when it came to taking down his Riptides. Just because people do not play the way you do does not make them "not good" Tau players and you can be skeptical all you want. The fact is spamming multiple small units does and can work. I never said I was knocking the x10 man TAC squad as that is all I used to run, however being able to spam a few units of x5 man pods works very well, maybe not against some armies but it can be quite effective

Razerous wrote:

 anyeri wrote:
*snip*

You need to ensure you play to the strengths of the SM's. Wolfs have bolt pistols, counterattack and fancy cc upgrades. With SM you need to make use of the chapter tactics, relentless grav weapons, MC flamers/meltas etc etc

i know the sm have another strenghts, but he is making a comparison between grey hunters and tac squad, and wolfguard and sternguard, i know you have to make the best of the advantage and disadvantege of your units, the fact is that Super ready is suggesting that the new sm are much better, on point-effencency thant the wolves on drop pod lists, even with imperail fist and bolter drill the wolves make a better job on closequarter combat, just join a rune priest with adivination to a 9 grey hunters pack and they overcome a tac squad on bolter fire, even with a boost of any kind inside the new codex; besides been a old codex, the space wolves keep the step with this edition , well, obviosly, the flyers still the head ache of the space fleasacks

Someone a lot more knowledgable than me needs to crunch a lot of numbers, because right now I can't figure out if Pod Wolves are better than the best SM Pod list. Heck I can barely do the pros and cons.

Wolves:

Pro:
Army wide counter-attack
Two specials in their 'Tac' squads, the second of which is free points-wise (means two marines firing specials w/o snapfire on the drop, not just one)
Elite marines (wolfguard) have MUCH cheaper combi-weapons
Rune Priest are cheap and nasty

Cons:
No combat squadding
No rerolling combact tactics


Someone better than me should do the pros and cons of SM compared to SWs





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Redbeard wrote:

Unless you're relying on these for scoring, you can do this sort of pod much cheaper with assault marines;

4 assault marines + Sgt
2 flamers
free drop pod
95 points.

See, there you go. That beats SW hands down for flamers. GHs need 10 guys (and 185) points to bring two flamers. Wolf guard can sort of do it with 5 guys (either two combi-flamers or a combi-flamer and a TDA WG with a heavy flamer) but both options cost more than SM assault marines. Whoops, forgot WG can be purchased in squads of 3. 3 WG, two combi-flamers and a drop pod comes to 99 points. Still more expensive than the 5 assault marines and they are only one shot.

Sicarius
Ironclad w/two heavy flamers in a pod
10 Tactical Marines, melta, multi-melta, combi melta in a pod
10 Tactical Marines, melta, multi-melta, combi melta in a pod
10 Tactical Marines, melta, multi-melta, combi melta in a pod
10 Tactical Marines, melta, multi-melta, combi melta in a pod
10 Tactical Marines, melta, multi-melta, combi melta in a pod
Thunderfire cannon in a pod
Thunderfire cannon
Thunderfire cannon

1711 or so. I had another pod with the TFC but I realized... 8 is as good as 7 for pods and there's no reason to waste points on an empty drop pod.

I do like having the option for dropping a TFC in my opponent's deployment zone to catch my opponent in the crossfire and score a pretty easy linebreaker.

I wonder...

135 points for a drop pod and TFC
or
95 points for that assault marine squad in a pod
or
105 points for that squad with a combi flamer in a pod

What do we think?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sicarius
Ironclad w/two heavy flamers in a pod
10 Tactical Marines, melta, multi-melta, combi melta in a pod
10 Tactical Marines, melta, multi-melta, combi melta in a pod
10 Tactical Marines, melta, multi-melta, combi melta in a pod
10 Tactical Marines, melta, multi-melta, combi melta in a pod
10 Tactical Marines, melta, multi-melta, combi melta in a pod
5 Assault Marines, flamer, flamer, combi flamer in a pod
5 Assault Marines, flamer, flamer, combi flamer in a pod
Thunderfire cannon in a pod

It should be 1750 on the nose. What do we think?

15 meltas (5 of which are combis and all reroll to hit once per game)
6 flamer templates (2 of which are combis)
2 heavy flamer templates
1 AV 13
9 AV 12
1 TFC which, if dropped first turn, would make for a great linebreaker.

Everyone's LD10 for morale and pinning checks.

What do people think about deathwind launchers? I'm always tempted to toss some on my pods just to make them something that my opponent needs to account for. For the price of a basic tac marine, a S5 large blast isn't too shabby. Not being able to fire on the turn it lands is a pain, but it can create a legitimate threat to infantry blocks and at least an annoyance to tough infantry, MC, and side/rear armor of things within 12". Not a big threat, but not a big cost either.

Thatguyoverthere11 wrote:
What do we think?

Second list is better. Too much melta, not enough anti-horde in the first list. Why all melta though? Why not some plasma? Rapid fire at close range could come in handy.

Super Newb wrote:

Thatguyoverthere11 wrote:
What do we think?

Second list is better. Too much melta, not enough anti-horde in the first list. Why all melta though? Why not some plasma? Rapid fire at close range could come in handy.

Good call. One plasma gun is only 5 points more and combi-weapons all count the same. Sicarius gives one squad tank hunters which would be interesting with grav/plasma weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think we can all agree that multi-meltas are better than plasma cannons in this instance?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I rechecked the points and, by my count, there are 5 points to spare.

I am looking into the deployment of the army and seeing a problem... Sicarus needs to be on the table for his reroll to reserves. I need all TAC squads on the first turn and, because of that, I don't have any room for Sicarius. It was so much easier when DPs could fit 12...

So, drop the multi-melta guy from a squad, give the meltaman a plasma gun and put combi-plas on the sergeant. Maybe a power weapon if the points are there. I really want to put the meltagun back on the Dread and give him 2 hunter-killers.

Still playing with points. But, I want to be able to make maximum affect from Sicarius's FC. Maybe a powersword on the sergeant... who knows.

Played my first game tonight against a grey knights player who made some mistakes. He ran a crowe purifier list so no warp quake.

Quickie lists from memory:
Me
Tiguirus and the Ultramarine detachment: 3 5 man tactical squads with melta combi melta, 1 with a missile launcher with flakk, all in pods.
Command Squad for Tiggy with plasma guns, apothecary and storm shields pod
Legion of the Damned 5 man, multimelta, grav pistol and power fist.
2 hunters
Librarian Fireboy of the Salamanders detachment
Assault squad and 2 flamers, pod.
sternguard with combi flamers and 2 heavy flamers, pod.
command squad with 5 flamers, pod.
scout squad, cloaks and rifles

Him: 2 rifleman dreads, 1 purifier squad in rhino, 1 of their dev squads in rhino, 1 purifier squad in razorback/split, Crowe, ADL, DreadKnight with shunt. I want to say 1 more purifier squad behind the adl, but I don't remember killing it.

The player was rusty, but he is a multiple tournament winning player. He came in second at Adepticon this year.

Not gonna post a full battle report, just my observations. We both made dumb mistakes...I dropped Tiggy and the plasma gunners in to wipe out a razorback instead of gunning down an exposed squad ( and I dropped right in close to the grey knight gunline). He shunted over to flame that squad, instead of assaulting my left flank, and he forgot to assault Tiggy and the plasmagunners.

I called Ultra rerolls on the drop, didn't need to use it because all my meltas hit on the drop. Casting prescience on the plasma gunners helped take 3 wounds off the dreadknight. used storm of fire on the LOTD and they finished off the Dreadknight and it helped them.

Rerolls on the drop with flamers was FANTASTIC. He did make a lot of saves, but against anything squishy, it's aces. The sternguard with 2 heavy flamers and the combi shots with the ap3 shots took out hhalf a 8 man Purifier squad. The 5 man command squad with the libby using flame breath ( did not reroll that) wiped out a 5 man purifier squad and put a wound on Crowe, the 2 assault flamers killed 3 purifiers.

The 8 pods were great. Blocked his LOS to the Relic, allowing my backfield squad to seize it and run.

At the end of the game I had all 8 pods, the snipers, 1 tac squad, 1 lone tac marine. He had Crowe and 3 purifiers left, and a rifleman dreadnought. It sounds close, but I had it wrapped up by turn 4. Had my LOTD sergeant not whiffed on 1's with a power fist and then a 2 on an invuln, I might not have lost as much as I did.

Lessons learned: LOTD are very good...3++ is a huge bonus.
Loved the 2 command squads, but yes, I know they are pricey. Have to figure out a way to get the same punch cheaper.

Not a powerful enough army to table someone, and losing tac squads hurts. if this had been an objective game, I may not have won. ( without the relic the game would have been 2 to 2 instead of 5 to 2.)

I'm thinking 10 man tactical squads with plasma cannons to replace the command squad with plasma, 10 man sternguard squad split to replace the flamer command squad. Now if I can jimmy a larger LOTD squad....