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That tournament FoC is. slowed to put it nicely.

I wouldn't put good entry fee money at that stupidity.

Yeah I gotta agree with this. It doesn't make any sense, it'll promote some mad deathstar type armies, and actually it benefits Orks alot as we have some of the best troops in the game. Run 180 boyz and I guarentee you'll coast to first place.

What does the rest of your list usually look like? If you're running multiple 30 man boyz squads then just keep the lootas on the ground behind them and spread everything out. His only target will be the boyz who can afford to lose 6-7 boyz then on your turn you unload on that thing till its dead. If it doesn't die then more than likely its going to have to fly off or drop into hover.

I second grabbing a second squad of Lootas, its not spam and even if you showed up with three squads they can get over it, we're two editions behind on our dex so its not like we have a lot of options here. Also get a dakkajet, its one of the best dogfighters around right now.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
(except the worthless flashgitz

This just confuses me, have you not seen their FAQ? They have Ignore Cover now, do you have any idea what that does to Tau stealth suits, or virtually anything that hides in cover?? Flash gitz are freakin sweet, at least in my experience, though i dont recommend them for Hellturkey counter, not bad as Heavy Infantry counters though.

 Grimmor wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
(except the worthless flashgitz

This just confuses me, have you not seen their FAQ? They have Ignore Cover now, do you have any idea what that does to Tau stealth suits, or virtually anything that hides in cover?? Flash gitz are freakin sweet, at least in my experience, though i dont recommend them for Hellturkey counter, not bad as Heavy Infantry counters though.

Wait, what? Someone doesnt see how theyre pointless? Lol....1 sec:

10 Flash Gitz w/ More Dakka and Shootier Upgrades cost 350pts. Blastas is pointless as that -1 to AP roll isnt as big as you think since the cost is high and now you got Gets Hot! to worry about.
Thats the bare-boned list. Taking less than 10 is dumb because their rate of fire is horrible. Now lets go onto the other problems:
Theyre on foot. Heavy slot means you use 2 Heavys to get these things a battlewagon since they cannot take any dedicated transports and they NEED transportation as T4 4+ save models will die fast before they even reach their 24" range on something worth shooting at.
To improve survivability, add a Painboy. Since the painboy doesnt take the upgrades you only pay 420 instead of 430 but lose a gun. Now they shoot 18 shots that are S6, AP D6, 24", NOT twinlinked but happen to ignore cover for some reason?
Kaptin Badrukk is actually pretty good, but hes forced to be with an insanely overpriced unit.

This unit runs almost as much as a 6man bikernob force with 2pks, 3 bigchoppas, 5 kombi scorchas, painboy, AND a boss mixed in and is nowhere NEAR as killy. Theyre a BS2 short range shooty unit that has no way to help fix their orky aiming problems, be it twinlink or better BS for some reason. To top it off, they have almost no melee capabilities since they lack a PK or dual CCW.

No, theyre worthless. Beyond worthless. Easy to clean off the board and insanely expensive. Ignores Cover was literally given to them in an attempt to try and make them viable - didnt work. Either give them twinlinked or make all the upgrades come stock, but whichever one also let them take a dedicated transport....then they might be worth it.
Also for the record theyve had ignores cover for quite some time now. Thats been there longer than i played orks, which is well over a year lol

 Grey Templar wrote:
Either he'll have to snap shot(no firing templates!), lose the flamer entirely, or you'll kill the Drake.

He almost never has to snap shoot. He has a 5+ invuln so never needs to Evade, and he's demonic so he ignores shaken and stunned results on a 2+

Well firtsly, i dont buy the Blasta Upgrade, its just a waste of points, and they footslog it for me as my Warboss is usually walking with them into combat. Why? because their still nobs. Ive usually only got 5 and a painboy and so they go walking towards whatever i want them to kill, blasting at it the whole time. Its amazing the kills they can rack up, especially on annoying things like Tau Stealth suits who just keel over and die without their Cover Save.

However to me its fairly obvious you dont like them, so this is the end of the argument for me, im just gonna tell you that after they got Ignore Cover they started showing up more at my hobby shop, and i was using them before that as Heavy Infantry killers, which they did fine with. So in short, i like them, you dont, and thats how its gonna stay.

 akaean wrote:
Another option is to take the Mad Doc, and start passing out Cybork to your army.

I disagree strongly. The Mad Dok is 160 points, plus the 5 point Cybork per model is too expensive at 1000 points. Then you have to obey his Med Pack Rule with a unit you wish to be stationary.

Do these tournaments allow for Allies and Forge World? I would infer not from their conservative FOC restrictions. If they do, you could give them a Pain Boss from the IA8 Dread Mob, but no Cybork. ~80 points and they still get 5+ FNP against the Baleflamer. Or give him a PK and put him and up front in a 20 strong Spanna Boy Mob with their 3 point Cybork. 22 wounds with 5++ and 5+ FNP makes for a hell of a meatshield. Plus, they give 5+ cover to the Tide behind them and free the HQ slot for a Warboss on a Bikes. Stick him in the middle his own 30 Mob until they get close enough to charge. Not much can handle all of those wounds at 1000 points. If your Chaos opponent has one of his Big Meanies, put the Warboss against him. You can afford to accept a challenge with you Nob and have at least 4 PK attacks to hit his unit. If things work out right, you can join the Pain Boss to the unit giving them FNP, or even some Spanna Boyz with 5+ invuls to take the hits from the Big Meanie.

If not I would still recommend the Green Tide. A KFF Big Mek and 20 strong Mobs with as many PKs as you can take up front, and an ADL with a Quad Gun manned by a maxed out Kannon Battery. No Lootas. They die too easy and are wasted with no redundancy. If the Kannons take the Baleflamer punishment, it will only wound on 5s. If the Boyz take it, there are so many of them it won't matter.

 RancidHate wrote:
The tournament entry you can't do much about but, otherwise, tell them to stop complaining about legal force org choices or go somewhere-else would be my first option.

You make it sound like playing somewhere else is an option. Do you live in a somewhere that has more than one place to game conveniently? Many don't, and even if he did, this 'suggestion' gives the OP no input on defeating a Heldrake at 1000 points with a restricted FOC.

 Gangrel767 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Either he'll have to snap shot(no firing templates!), lose the flamer entirely, or you'll kill the Drake.

He almost never has to snap shoot. He has a 5+ invuln so never needs to Evade, and he's demonic so he ignores shaken and stunned results on a 2+

You are forgetting 1-3 on the damage table. I was not talking about Evade.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Either he'll have to snap shot(no firing templates!), lose the flamer entirely, or you'll kill the Drake.

He almost never has to snap shoot. He has a 5+ invuln so never needs to Evade, and he's demonic so he ignores shaken and stunned results on a 2+

You are forgetting 1-3 on the damage table. I was not talking about Evade.

Actually I wasn't. It has demonic possession so it ignores those results on a 2+, just as i said above.

Right, forgot about that.

its still a good chance of taking it out of the game for a turn because of the other results.

Absolutely!

Snoipah wrote:


But doesn't your squad of lootaz get burned the first turn the drake comes in?

Also, I really don't want this game to turn into a flier fest. also lootaz shouldn't be in CC.

You need to stick your Lootas in a transport. I'm quite fond of Battlewagons, nice cheap ones with Death Rollas or RR. If you take a mega armoured warboss with them too then they get Slow and Purposeful which means they get to drive around and dakka at full BS, until the Warboss gets bored and jumps out of the assault vehicle to go and Krump something squidgy.

Sneaky.

Too bad it doesn't work against fliers, though.

Stop grouping up, spread out, put yourself on different levels of ruins, stop being bad.

Stompzilla wrote:
If you take a mega armoured warboss with them too then they get Slow and Purposeful which means they get to drive around and dakka at full BS

Yes, but not faster than Combat Speed. But if he takes his 1 HQ, 1 Elite, and 1 HS in that group, you are talking about 450 out of 1000 points. What else should he take with those 550 points to compliment the MegaBoss and Lootas in a BW?

Some of the other advice is great as well boyz to block the helldrake, a second group of lootas.
as a third option.... I hope no one covered this already as I did not read the whole thread.

1. buy or build an orky Aegis Defence Line
2. Either get the FW flaxadakka gun or scratch build a quad big shoota/loota gun.
3. Get a gretchin squad to shoot it. BS 3

I personally feel its a good solution and it provides you the oppportunty to build a custom model, which should give you bonus points in a paint score at a tournament.

Something to think about.

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
a second group of lootas

From Original Post:

Snoipah wrote:
we have tourneys every now and then, you're allowed 1 heavy support, 1 elite, 1 fast attack, 1 hq, up to 6 troops, and 1 flier, 1000 point limit.

It's been mentioned before, and it's worked really well for me:
Aegis + quad
Big Gunz unit (x3 Kannon), all the upgrades (krew, ammo runts, runtherd). Durable unit, dirt cheap cost.

Stick your lottas behind the line too, have a spare grot fire the quad. Even the kannons have a fair chance of hitting a flier with the ammo runt re-rolls. Even an Icarus is worth considering, keep your ammo runts for re-rolls for this.

Well I have a friend who uses two drakes...just be grateful he's only got the one!!!

Template weapons (such as flamers) can only hit models under the template on a single level. This can be on the same level as the firer, or one level higher or lower. A Jump model, Jet Pack model, Jetbike or Skimmer that fires a Template weapon at a unit in a ruin may target models on any single level of the ruin.

Page 101

Is the hell drake a jet-pack, Jum-pack or skimmer when its zooming? Then it may only target models on the ground floor and one floor above (given that its base is placed on the table. If it wants to roast lootas sitting on the third + floor then it has to hover, and that's when you nail it.

I've had someone at the club argue that the drake is actually above the ruin, I argued contrary, but in the end, I just conceeded. ask before hand, place your lootas accordingly; If its 'above' then place the lootas low, if its below, then place the lootas high.

If you want to be really spiteful take Chaos allies with a naked sorc, 10 cultists and a heldrake with the autocannon. The only thing more satisfying than killing a heldrake is killing a heldrake with a heldrake.