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That's the point. The rules should be allowed to be denied in a tournament.

I feel your side is the inconsiderate side. You're telling me you want to force others to allow you to use a silly crossover whenever you want. You tell me to let you have your fun, but the prospect of having Martians in Dreadball and Deadzone aren't appealing and would make me consider dropping the games altogether. It would impede on my fun.

don't see the problem with just offering decks of cards on with the rules personally. did necromunda have tournaments? how likely is it dz will have htem, won't they Just be campaigns?

This was posted on the facebook page. Shows off the plastic domes quite nicely:

Dreadball has tournaments all the time

Earth Dragon wrote:
That's the point. The rules should be allowed to be denied in a tournament.
I feel your side is the inconsiderate side. You're telling me you want to force others to allow you to use a silly crossover whenever you want. You tell me to let you have your fun, but the prospect of having Martians in Dreadball and Deadzone aren't appealing and would make me consider dropping the games altogether. It would impede on my fun.

That's some reverse logic. You don't like an add-on from game creators, want to disallow it from others & the other side is inconsiderate one.


Tournament organizers can always choose what to allow in their games. Season 1-only, ORX-only or whatever.
In friendly games, you don't have to play with people you don't want to. Don't want to play against Steve, or MA-army? Don't.

 adhuin wrote:

Earth Dragon wrote:
That's the point. The rules should be allowed to be denied in a tournament.
I feel your side is the inconsiderate side. You're telling me you want to force others to allow you to use a silly crossover whenever you want. You tell me to let you have your fun, but the prospect of having Martians in Dreadball and Deadzone aren't appealing and would make me consider dropping the games altogether. It would impede on my fun.

That's some reverse logic. You don't like an add-on from game creators, want to disallow it from others & the other side is inconsiderate one.


Tournament organizers can always choose what to allow in their games. Season 1-only, ORX-only or whatever.
In friendly games, you don't have to play with people you don't want to. Don't want to play against Steve, or MA-army? Don't.

When it comes to being forced to mix an IP I care nothing for, yes, the side saying it needs to be official is being inconsiderate as that option puts folks that don't like in a position to be a bad guy. I spent plenty of money on a couple games and had NO idea they would be part of the official rules. Leave them as optional. Folks should the right to "Say no to crossovers" without being marked as a villain.

For the guys that want Klingons, they can find minis and draft rules if they want, but if we're playing a league, it should be an easy task to cut out all non-warpath teams, and not having it turn into a cage match with arguments of them being "official" teams.

I realize my view is gonna go on deaf ears here since you guys are obviously pro-MA, but there are plenty out there who had no desire to be locked in to any crossovers. I'd rather save it for special tongue in cheek occasion and not have the expectation that they should always be allowed unless that is the unanimous consensus.

I actually care nothing about MA. I pledged a buck simply so I can access buying Blaine (I like him as the new mascot) and the Knight character to add to my Basilean KoW army. I'm far from pro-MA. But don't let that stop you from putting words in my mouth. Whether you want to admit it or not, Mantic made an agreement with the company that made MA, and part of that agreement is allowing them to add MA to DZ and DB. They feel it's a good idea and that it'll draw up support for all the games to have cross interests. They can't please everyone, and in this case, you're the one who isn't pleased. It happens. It just happens that your request that is being denied is a bizarre one to begin with. Most people want MORE options, here you want to DENY more options.

And most tournaments don't allow unofficial rules, so please don't even try to say you're in favor of denying this as an option.

It is honestly not worth getting wrapped around the axle over. If mantic wants to crossover thier games, just put the stuff you dont like up for trade in the swap section and call it a day.

I honestly didnt care for it either but it shouldn't be a big deal to be made to pee in the punch bowl over.

Point on here is that they want to come out with the game, how about you just run with that and fund the parts you want and just ask for a trade on the stuff you dont? It shouldn't be an excuse to just bark and go over the top.

I can see why it might seem a little classless to put in the other stuff from other games, but its not honestly done to be a personal insult or something other then a fun little angle to include fans of other Mantic games that might find it fun to add something extra to what they already own.

Yeah, I'm all for crossovers. Its just for fun. These are GAMES we're talking about here.

Also, I can't see Deadzone being the type of game that lends itself to a tournament as well as Dreadball.

Back on topic a little bit, is anyone else waiting to see the Deadzoine stuff in order to help make a decision on MA? I feel like there are quite a few people who are, and that could have a pretty big impact on this campaign.

Earth Dragon wrote:

When it comes to being forced to mix an IP I care nothing for, yes, the side saying it needs to be official is being inconsiderate as that option puts folks that don't like in a position to be a bad guy.

So this is one of those "speaking up against hate speech is itself hate speech" things to you? We're being inconsiderate because we're putting you in a position where your own inconsideration shows?

Given that in many ways MA is DZ lite then it is inevitable that there will be a crossover at some point. DB is a little harder ro justify especially that the Martians need a playing style and potentially additional models sculpted to cover the positions.

DZ especially could add money to the MA KS, but in my opinion needs to be handled correctly. While acknowledging there is a fairly substantial and vocal group calling for it, there is also a lot of pelple just buying in for the MA stuff.

If there is a crossover maybe it should be the rules plus card deck , as a add on, bur not a separate goal. Perhaps, the $500k point could be a chance to offer it together with a more MA relevant biggie?

Asfor Mantic getting the license from Topps to use MA in their other games, I suspect this will be doubtful. I suspect this will be tricky part if Mantic do issue some crossover stuff,I doubt that Topps will let them incorporate the Martians and their imagery into the Warpath universe - bit like GW and LOTR/Hobbit for WH Fantasy.

Topps are actually extremely likely to say yes and probably already have. Their head of licensing has a pledge and has been chatting in the KS comments a lot.

From what I've heard, Mantic basically has the use of the IP for free with free reign to do whatever they like with it, Topps approached them and wanted them to make the game just for the sake of getting the product out there and expanding the range of Mars Attacks stuff.

There are already tons of downright bonkers comic crossovers with Mars attacks, everything from ghostbusters to popeye, they're pretty lenient about where the IP ends up.

Adam Levine is a pretty cool dude, yeah.

I think the martians are a really cool race. I think a Crossover to Warpath, DZ and DB would be really cool.

It is always ok, to say to a race of a game: No, I don't want it.

Some would not like Dwarves in space, or what are doing Skaven in Space??? It is ok, to say I do not like some parts of a game and don't want to play with them. Everyone can create house rules banning the martians or other races.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Earth Dragon wrote:

When it comes to being forced to mix an IP I care nothing for, yes, the side saying it needs to be official is being inconsiderate as that option puts folks that don't like in a position to be a bad guy.

So this is one of those "speaking up against hate speech is itself hate speech" things to you? We're being inconsiderate because we're putting you in a position where your own inconsideration shows?

I spent money on a game I haven't even recieved and didn't realize Mars Attacks was part of the deal. I don't want Mars Attacks, nor do I want to play with Mars Attacks in Deadzone. Saying "Well I want to" doesn't make you right. Can you not see you've already branded me as the bad guy comparing this to "hate speech".

Still just blown away how ensuring there are "optional" rules and not contained in source books is so unacceptable. THAT'S where you are being inconsiderate to where you feel I should have to deal with a crossover I didn't know was happening when I spent plenty of money on something. I wouldn't have backed deadzone if I knew this was going to happen. Their uninvited guests to the party who are rude, obnoxious, bust out hard drugs, and say "Stop trying to ruin our fun" when you say "please leave".

Earth Dragon wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Earth Dragon wrote:

When it comes to being forced to mix an IP I care nothing for, yes, the side saying it needs to be official is being inconsiderate as that option puts folks that don't like in a position to be a bad guy.

So this is one of those "speaking up against hate speech is itself hate speech" things to you? We're being inconsiderate because we're putting you in a position where your own inconsideration shows?

I spent money on a game I haven't even recieved and didn't realize Mars Attacks was part of the deal. I don't want Mars Attacks, nor do I want to play with Mars Attacks in Deadzone. Saying "Well I want to" doesn't make you right. Can you not see you've already branded me as the bad guy comparing this to "hate speech".

Still just blown away how ensuring there are "optional" rules and not contained in source books is so unacceptable. THAT'S where you are being inconsiderate to where you feel I should have to deal with a crossover I didn't know was happening when I spent plenty of money on something. I wouldn't have backed deadzone if I knew this was going to happen. Their uninvited guests to the party who are rude, obnoxious, bust out hard drugs, and say "Stop trying to ruin our fun" when you say "please leave".

I kind of get what you are trying to say, but should every KS tell us every expansion they ever plan on adding for eternity, just in case someone may or may not want that expansion. I mean, almost all popular games (videogames, board games, wargames) get expanded on at some point and we surely don't know it when we first sign on. Games expand, and usually, this is a good thing. I get that you're upset, and I have no right to say you can't be. But you have to know when you buy games that their is a HIGH probabiltity for expansion in the universe and you may or may not like the new faction / setting or whatever.

I agree with Earth Dragon to an extent, whilst I wouldn't mind to much in playing them in DZ or DB in a fan type list I would NOT want them in the source books or official army lists for tournaments. Mars attacks has there own game/universe leave them to that and Warpath to theirs.

Huge difference between expanding your own IP and adding in an existing IP that is on a different level as to how silly/gooberish it is in look and humor. I may be the only one in this thread with the opinion as I am not backing Mars Attacks, but I'm not the only one with the opnion as evidence on Mantic's forums, the KS update in Deadzone, and a couple of various blogs. Review the Kickstarter video for Deadzone. It is declaring that they are trying to establish the Warpath universe as a legimate, fairly serious IP. I bought into that concept, and now they are diviating from it just so they can increase sales, and this is all before we get our stuff.

If they are done completely on the side and are available from their site or a special "Backers Reward" for backing Mars Attacks and left optional, do whatever you want. But I'm firmly against this IP getting added into the deal I signed up as "official fluff" and left as something we can play as "toungue in cheek" on the occasion but push them to the side without much fuss and appreciate "Warpath" and what is going on there.

Earth Dragon wrote:
Huge difference between expanding your own IP and adding in an existing IP that is on a different level as to how silly/gooberish it is in look and humor.

I find this statement very funny since I equate ridiculously silly and comical (in terms of sculpts) with Deadzone, not Mars Attacks. The MA sculpts are realistic and actually look good. Mantic definitely needs to stick with 3D modeling.

If the Mars models were painted up with a less cartoony paint job they would certainly fit with Deadzone figures. I can think of a number of camo paint job combinations that would fix any problems there.

I don't get why people are so against having cross compatibility. Do people not use Warpath figs in 40k? Do people not use Warhammer figs in Kings of War and vice versa? Do people not use Inquisitor or Necromunda figures in each other's games or in 40K? What's wrong with having the built-in option to use figures from one game in another? Especially if they're made by the same company?

overtyrant wrote:
I agree with Earth Dragon to an extent, whilst I wouldn't mind to much in playing them in DZ or DB in a fan type list I would NOT want them in the source books or official army lists for tournaments. Mars attacks has there own game/universe leave them to that and Warpath to theirs.

This is all that's being asked for. No one is against compatibility options. They are against the two universes fusing and MA rule sets becoming apart of the source material and apart of the tournament scene.

How dare a tournament scene have silly armies that didn't require hand crafting or custom models. :-/

I don't think the models have anything to do with it themselves, it is that we want to keep the fluff separate.

Sure make a dreadball team of martians, but just have the different positions and let people proxy them in (or provide some "unofficial" rules for them), but don't put them in the source material.

Is there a picture of the MA-dreadball players or an ETA for the Dreadball pledge-level?

Nay, and nay. Although its only a week and a half left so they'll have to do something about it quickly. Unless they thought up the DB team way in advance, the best we could hope for are renders... may be able to use the existing ones and replace/modify their gear/weapons and add in shoulder pads and poses etc.

All this argument about add ons that werent in the original version of the game makes me wonder how many 40k players took their bat and ball and went home when the Tau came out because they didn't sign up to fight little blue men.

A very large amount, Vain. A lot of people were very annoyed about this 'anime rubbish' infecting their game.

People were OK about the necrons, until they read the fluff that had them responsible for everything, ever.

Really? I haven't come across anyone who did this (with the exception of one total tool, and I am not implying only a tool would do this)...ok, I have not come across anyone reasonable who has done this.

Though weren't the necrons around for ages?
Like Gorkamorka and before (actually a quick wiki search shows me that Gorkamorka wasn't actually as far back as i thought, being released in 1997)

Well, yeah. Necrons were around in the 1997 Christmas White Dwarf issue and were hinted at in Gorkamorka too.

And people were fine / excited about them then, then the army came out years later and there was still excitement.

Which turned to eye rolling sighs as they read the fluff, due to it feeling like the necrons were shoehorned into every single ancient event. EG Creation of the Orks, the Eldar, the enslavers thing, the Old Ones and the Machine God.

Admittedly, it wasn't as bad as current Wardian fluff, but yeah. People were annoyed about it.

MA-guys and saucers would make a kick-ass Necron proxy-army.

The difference is though, that Tau and Necrons, whilst having inspiration from anime and terminator/tomb king themes, were new factions created specifically for the setting. MA Martians are from a completely different setting, with a completely different style. I'm fine with the rules being compatible, and I'd love to be able to play games with/against them. But I really don't think they should be mentioned in the fluff at all. That's very easy to do, provide a small pamphlett/card deck/whatever that has the DZ martian rules, maybe with it's own sandbox narrative for why they're fighting - but this isn't part of official deadzone at all.

I was planning on getting some DZ rules for some 40k things, ie. including a Dawn of War 2 (video game) Blood Raven detachment as a playable force in deadzone, just for fun. Or an Eisenkern force etc. Rules, maybe a narrative, but not official.