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Just let it slide . If he ever rans into someone playing a full drop pod list in a friendly they wont play against each other and are done. If he ever rans into someone on a tournament a judge will quickly solve the debate.

Juraigamer is that also how you would play it or are you simply arguing RAW?

 Mywik wrote:
Just let it slide . If he ever rans into someone playing a full drop pod list in a friendly they wont play against each other and are done. If he ever rans into someone on a tournament a judge will quickly solve the debate.

Juraigamer is that also how you would play it or are you simply arguing RAW?

Its gotta be how he would play it, because the rules are clear that all models embarked on drop pods do not count.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Mywik wrote:
Just let it slide . If he ever rans into someone playing a full drop pod list in a friendly they wont play against each other and are done. If he ever rans into someone on a tournament a judge will quickly solve the debate.

Juraigamer is that also how you would play it or are you simply arguing RAW?

Its gotta be how he would play it, because the rules are clear that all models embarked on drop pods do not count.

Did i disagree? Why not let him answer my question anyway?

 juraigamer wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:


Please cite actual rules that disagree.

Been doing that, but oh well for those without a book, page 124 brb:

"Units that must start the game in reserve are
ignored for the purposes of working out how many other units
may do so. A unit and its Dedicated Transport are counted as a
single unit for these purposes. Independent Characters are also
counted as a single unit regardless of whether they have joined
another unit or not."

To me, this means that it doesn't matter if the IC joins a unit in a drop pod or flier, it still counts towards the reserve limit.

The FAQ doesn't matter in this case, because it doesn't address this situation in the rulebook, there it says you can't do it.

Wrong. The more specific rules for drop pods and their FAQ supercede the less specific rules as stated on page 124 of the rulebook. I'm not sure how you can not grasp this and am beginning to suspect that you're trolling us to see how many pages of responses you will get. This will be my last response.

 juraigamer wrote:
Been doing that, but oh well for those without a book, page 124 brb:

"Units that must start the game in reserve are
ignored for the purposes of working out how many other units
may do so. A unit and its Dedicated Transport are counted as a
single unit for these purposes. Independent Characters are also
counted as a single unit regardless of whether they have joined
another unit or not."

To me, this means that it doesn't matter if the IC joins a unit in a drop pod or flier, it still counts towards the reserve limit.

The FAQ doesn't matter in this case, because it doesn't address this situation in the rulebook, there it says you can't do it.

OK... now can you explain why you feel that 'counts as a single unit' automatically means 'counts towards your reserves limit"?

Because if counting as a single unit is all that is required for the unit to count towards your reserve limit, the drop pod is also going to count towards your reserve limit, based on that quote. Despite the rules elsewhere saying it doesn't.

 juraigamer wrote:
Just the same happyjew, page 124 tells us IC's are always counted as a separate unit in reserve, regardless of if they join a unit, so two specific rules are colliding. What do. Which takes precedent? Both rules take effect, being in the pod and being an IC. Page 124. I'm not arguing what it says on page 36, please stop blindly quoting it. I have never encountered two specifics colliding before like this. I'm looking for an explanation on this, since page 1, not copy paste and knee jerk responses.

Funny. I just made a full drop pod army that will never be allowed to get on board except for the second half.

HQ-IC
HQ-IC
Techmarine-IC x 2
Squads x 4
Drop Pods x 4


Based on what you are saying, I have 4 Drop Pods with a squad and an independent character inside each one. These would be 4 units (squad and pod ignored in calculations). Half of these could go to reserve. Now the problem is that "Drop Pods and units embarked upon them must be held in reserve and must enter play using the Deep Strike rules." Since all Drop Pods must start in reserves and half of them can't and you can't deploy the pod with the models inside (because they are embarked on the Drop Pod) normally the game just explodes.

Why does this happen? All of the pods must start in reserve. Also half of the pods can not start in reserve (they have IC aboard). Half of the pods can start in reserve. Half of the pods is not all of the pods.


Tell me, how is the above handled according to you?


Ps. This is stupid.

 kaapelikala wrote:

HQ-IC
HQ-IC
Techmarine-IC x 2
Squads x 4
Drop Pods x 4

...how is the above handled...?

So if we're playing Purge the Alien then I'm counting 12 units (2HQsd, 2 Techmarines, 4 squads, 4 DPs). Your drop pods start in reserve automatically and are not counted when determining reserves. The Squads start on the pods and therefore aren't counted either. If you don't put anything else into the pods, then you only have 4 units that I am allowed to count towards determining reserves. So, you can put 2 more units into reserves. If, however, you put your 2 HQ units onto a pod, then you only have 2 units that I am allowed to count towards determining reserves. So, you can put 1 more unit into reserves. Finally, if your pods have room, and you, for instance, put 1 HQ into DP-A, 1 HQ into DP-B, 1 techmarine into DP-C, and 1 techmarine into DP-D, then you have no units that I'm allowed to count towards reserves. This is because all 8 units are embarked on 4 units that "must arrive by Deep Strike" and in this case all units that "must be deployed by Deep Strike (along with any models embarked upon them) are ignored" when trying to calculate how many units may start in reserves. (p36) This is further clarified with the same language on p124 and reconfirmed in the FAQ when it states "Do unitS [plural] that are TRANSPORTED in a vehicle that MUST start in reserve count towards the number of units that can be placed in Reserves? For example, must I count the units IN a DROP POD or Valkyrie towards the 50% of units I can place in Reserves? (p124) A: No." (emphasis added).

So, to answer the OP question:

gausus wrote:
If i put all my units into 7 drop pods 4 of them arrive at the begining of my first turn.
In that scenario, if i get to go second, my oponent does not have ant thing to shoot in the first turn. He can just move his units, and that is is?

Yes, if you go second, then all your opponent may do during his first player turn is move his units around.

Yes, if you go second, then all your opponent may do during his first player turn is move his units around.

Not entirely true. He can cast blessings and use wargear like forinstance the Grimoire. A daemon player will be more than happy for your drop pod army to go second...

 FlingitNow wrote:

Yes, if you go second, then all your opponent may do during his first player turn is move his units around.

Not entirely true. He can cast blessings and use wargear like forinstance the Grimoire. A daemon player will be more than happy for your drop pod army to go second...

As a Daemon, I am happy to go first against Drop Pods, because of the Grimoire.
But as a GREY KNIGHT, I absolutely MUST go first, to the point that I will pay you $1. Warp Quake ahoy!

 kaapelikala wrote:

 juraigamer wrote:
Just the same happyjew, page 124 tells us IC's are always counted as a separate unit in reserve, regardless of if they join a unit, so two specific rules are colliding. What do. Which takes precedent? Both rules take effect, being in the pod and being an IC. Page 124. I'm not arguing what it says on page 36, please stop blindly quoting it. I have never encountered two specifics colliding before like this. I'm looking for an explanation on this, since page 1, not copy paste and knee jerk responses.

Funny. I just made a full drop pod army that will never be allowed to get on board except for the second half.

HQ-IC
HQ-IC
Techmarine-IC x 2
Squads x 4
Drop Pods x 4


Based on what you are saying, I have 4 Drop Pods with a squad and an independent character inside each one. These would be 4 units (squad and pod ignored in calculations). Half of these could go to reserve. Now the problem is that "Drop Pods and units embarked upon them must be held in reserve and must enter play using the Deep Strike rules." Since all Drop Pods must start in reserves and half of them can't and you can't deploy the pod with the models inside (because they are embarked on the Drop Pod) normally the game just explodes.

Why does this happen? All of the pods must start in reserve. Also half of the pods can not start in reserve (they have IC aboard). Half of the pods can start in reserve. Half of the pods is not all of the pods.


Tell me, how is the above handled according to you?


Ps. This is stupid.

While I agree that this formation is 100% legal, it does not address his logic. He would likely say that the IC or squad can not both deploy in the drop pod and be a legal formation. Since The drop pods are dedicated transports the IC would be required to start on the field. (Unless he is willing to admit pg 124 does handle this because drop pods must arrive via deep strike)

Orock wrote:
Isn't there. Rule in sixth now that says if you have no models on the board at anytime now you lose?

At the end of the game turn only.

So starting with the entire army in drop pods is fine.

 juraigamer wrote:


Been doing that, but oh well for those without a book, page 124 brb:

"Units that must start the game in reserve are
ignored for the purposes of working out how many other units
may do so. A unit and its Dedicated Transport are counted as a
single unit for these purposes. Independent Characters are also
counted as a single unit regardless of whether they have joined
another unit or not."

To me, this means that it doesn't matter if the IC joins a unit in a drop pod or flier, it still counts towards the reserve limit.

The FAQ doesn't matter in this case, because it doesn't address this situation in the rulebook, there it says you can't do it.

No one is arguing that an IC counts separately when calculating reserves.

Your argument for Pg.124 simply tells you that they are normally counted separate when joined to a unit. It mentions nothing in regards to being embarked on a transport that must be taken in reserve. There's nothing telling you you can't do it either....it tells you what you can do, by virtue of specific permissions. In this case, we are given explicit permission to ignore the IC (or MODEL) when calculating reserve totals, because he is embarked on a transport that must start the game in reserve.

What about using a small amount of table units, like TLOS hiding TFC, to allow for some additional units like scout speeders. Thoughts?

Edit: Ahhh got linked from tactics... Didn't realise it was YMDC

 NickTheButcher wrote:

 juraigamer wrote:


Been doing that, but oh well for those without a book, page 124 brb:

"Units that must start the game in reserve are
ignored for the purposes of working out how many other units
may do so. A unit and its Dedicated Transport are counted as a
single unit for these purposes. Independent Characters are also
counted as a single unit regardless of whether they have joined
another unit or not."

To me, this means that it doesn't matter if the IC joins a unit in a drop pod or flier, it still counts towards the reserve limit.

The FAQ doesn't matter in this case, because it doesn't address this situation in the rulebook, there it says you can't do it.

No one is arguing that an IC counts separately when calculating reserves.

Your argument for Pg.124 simply tells you that they are normally counted separate when joined to a unit. It mentions nothing in regards to being embarked on a transport that must be taken in reserve. There's nothing telling you you can't do it either....it tells you what you can do, by virtue of specific permissions. In this case, we are given explicit permission to ignore the IC (or MODEL) when calculating reserve totals, because he is embarked on a transport that must start the game in reserve.

This doesn't quite work. The IC is not "a unit that must start in reserves", the only wording that allows an embarked unit in a drop pod to be ignored along with the drop pod is the statement that units and their dedicated transport are considered one unit. Even when embarked in a drop pod, the DP is not the IC's dedicated transport, therefore he must count towards reserves.

You are ignoring the FAQ that says anyone embarked on any transport (not just dedicated) are not counted. It's been quoted multiple times in this thread - perhaps you would like to read it?

rigeld2 wrote:
You are ignoring the FAQ that says anyone embarked on any transport (not just dedicated) are not counted. It's been quoted multiple times in this thread - perhaps you would like to read it?

Fair enough. Not even sure why I chimed in since it's in my best interest for it to be allowed. LOL

Ok. So one question - does anyone tested an all drop-pod list and would like to share the info, how did the game went?

@juraigamer

1. In the described scenario, is the IC embarked in a transport that must start in reserve? (yes/no)

2. Do units that start embarked in a transport that must start in reserve count towards your reserves limit? (yes/no)