Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I just based my entire daemon army with some hobby sand and i know it should seal with some watered down PVA/Elmer's glue so the sand doesn't flake off. I was just wondering what's the best way to do that?

How watered down should the glue be?
Should I dip the bases or can I brush it on?
Anything else?

Thanks for all the help

I also use watered down glue to seal my sand.

My advice would be to water it down severely like 5:1 ratio of water to glue.

Due note sometimes the watered glue will create a layer that will make the sand into one entire piece and come off over time.

You can also use just about any sealer from the craft store, and brush it on.

I spray matte varnish on mine with my airbrush.

I have used watered down glue...you want it pretty liquid, I would say MRPYM's ratio is pretty good...do some tests and see what works for you.

I've watered my PVA down so it's semi-clear and pretty liquidy. That ratio does sound about right. I apply it by dropping in an eye dropper and letting it pool out over the base as to not disturb any grains that may not have adhered properly when first applied.

I glue it down with a 2/1 mix of PVA to water, then drip a 3/1 mix of black paint and water on to seal... and then another 3/1 mix of paint and water as the basecoat. Then the usual varnish/flatcote at the end.

Between those four layers it seems to hold the sand on quite well.

I base my models first, then prime them. The primer holds the basing on just fine.

matte varnish.

Not sure on the exact ratio, but mine is likely similar to what's been suggested (milky appearance, flows more like water than glue). I also add paint to the mix, though. Since I'm slopping the watery sealant all over everything (brushed on, not dipped - it's a sloppy application, so it takes no time at all with a large-ish brush), I might as well get some pigment to seep down into the nooks and crannies, while I'm at it. Sprays never seem to cut it on rough basing unless I really drown the bases (which I don't want to do, if the model is already attached). With a heavy application, it seems to soak in sufficiently on its own - no need for a surfactant. Binds everything quite strongly, too. Sand doesn't shed, grain by grain - if the base takes a hard enough knock to dislodge anything, it's going to be a whole chunk.

 Todosi wrote:
I base my models first, then prime them. The primer holds the basing on just fine.

Likewise.

Add a drop of surfactant to your glue-water mix.
It will allow it to better cover the sand and lock it down (it will lock each grain with every other, and the lot into one whole. Rather than just a surface coat over the top layer of grains).

Surfactants lower surface tension - you could use rinse aid, detergent, windex, etc.

 Todosi wrote:
I base my models first, then prime them. The primer holds the basing on just fine.

I tried that once myself, apparently I did something wrong because about half the sand chipped off as I was painting.

My current favorite method is to make watered down wood glue about 1/1 or until a bit more viscus than milk in a disposable cup then dip the whole base in till it just covers the sand. i usually paint on the sand after so having it on the feets of models isn't too big a deal.

Apparently I do it all wrong! I actually PVA first throw on flock, then when I seal with a matte varnish I call it a day. Haven't had any problems yet.....

The reasons some people have succes with some methods, and others do not is because this is a highly variable process.

For example, if you use very thin flocking or sand, less glue is required.
If you use thicker amounts, or larger granules (with less surface area overall) you need more glue.
If you use very small particles, in very thin layers, a liquid paint applied from above might work.

So, what I am saying is that there is no wrong answer here - get some ideas from the various people, and see what works for your SPECIFIC use.

Or go check out some of the various terrain videos on youtube, that way you can see EXACTLY what someone is doing, to see how their technique works with their specific basing.

Experiment, try things, have fun.

best of luck!

I my sand on top of slightly watered glue, then when dried I put on more watery glue to seal the top, all by brush.

Finally, the gloss and matt varnish sprays that are applied to the whole finished model give an extra layer of protection.

 Vulcan wrote:

 Todosi wrote:
I base my models first, then prime them. The primer holds the basing on just fine.

I tried that once myself, apparently I did something wrong because about half the sand chipped off as I was painting.

Here is my complete process;

1. Using Elmer's White Glue or Titebond Wood Glue, paint the entire base with glue.
2. Immediately dunk the base in my sand and gravel mixture
3. Blow off the excess and make sure the rim of the base is clean.
4. Allow to dry at least 4 hours.
5. Prime the model completely with Krylon Black Primer.
6. Allow to dry overnight and paint as normal.

No problems with basing coming off in over 15 years of gaming.

I use a single drop of washing up liquid (helps it flow really well)

I'll add my 2 cents I guess:

I PVA glue the base, flock it, then let dry overnight.
I then take clear polyurethane and drop it on, dropper style, to completely soak the flock. Allow to dry overnight.

Matte coat or primer/paint, and ready to rock and roll.

Zero issues so far, except this past time when I was using metal shavings for flocking (experimenting lol), but I think there was still some WD40 residue around that messed with it., and a lacking of contact surface to hold onto as the shavings are spindly.