Dark Angels vs ??

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**Niexist**

Animus wrote:
Niexist wrote:
Don't see anything in there about robot girlyman, or the ultramarines, do you?

Not there obviously, but as I said there are conflicting sources of the matter.

The Ultramarines Legion of Space Marines was assigned to the control of Roboute Guilliman and its forward base relocated to Macragge. The Primarch quickly assimilated the many wonders of the Imperium and set about his new role with skill and enthusiasm. His chief talents, as ever, lay in war, and he soon led the Ultramarines in fresh conquests in the galactic south. He succeeded in liberating more worlds during the Great Crusade than any other Primarch, and the worlds he brought within the Imperium were to benefit from his organisational skills and passion for efficient government.

Whenever Roboute Guilliman freed a world from the tyranny of Orks, Chaos or other aliens, his first priority was to set up a self-supporting defence system. Once a world was safe he could move on, leaving behind enough advisers to ensure that industry would be created, trading routes set up with the Imperium, and government directed towards the prosperity of the people. In this way the Ultramarines could conquer worlds faster than any other Space Marine Legion.

Meanwhile, the fortress of the Ultramarines grew on Macragge. Some Ultramarines remained behind to supervise the work, which progressed rapidly thanks to the ready trading network and advanced industries of the planet. Within a year a training base was established, and recruiting began on the planet Macragge and surrounding worlds. It was not long before the Ultramarines Legion recieved its first influx of warriors born and bred on Macragge. Thanks to their usual thoroughness of organisation, the Ultramarines were able to recieve constant recruits throughout the Great Crusade. Because of its strong recruitment base and Roboute Guilliman's tactical expertise the Ultramarines soon became the largest Legion, having more recruits than any other Legion and suffering fewer casualties.

Nothing about Smurfs in yours, and nothing about dress wearers, dog fondlers or heretics in mine.

So you're going to take a quote from a codex made in 1995, with all the history changes GW has made, and try to say it holds the same value as something written in 2013? Your information is about 20 years dated, and we all know that the history of warhammer 40k was EXTREMELY different in 1995 than it is today.

**Animus**

But it comes from Codex Space Marines too, the one from 2008, only five years old, the setting hasn't changed much since then.

**Niexist**

Animus wrote:
But it comes from Codex Space Marines too, the one from 2008, only five years old, the setting hasn't changed much since then.

Most recent = cannon

What is so hard to understand about that?

**Animus**

Niexist wrote:
Animus wrote:
But it comes from Codex Space Marines too, the one from 2008, only five years old, the setting hasn't changed much since then.

Most recent = cannon

What is so hard to understand about that?

That's not the canon policy though. As you've seen with my quote, GW will use what they want, going so far as to copy almost exactly fluff that was at that point 13 years old.

**Kain**

Niexist wrote:
Animus wrote:
But it comes from Codex Space Marines too, the one from 2008, only five years old, the setting hasn't changed much since then.

Most recent = cannon

What is so hard to understand about that?

GW Canon for both Fantasy and 40k is essentially whatever you want it to be, you can pick and choose and straight up make stuff up and it'll be as good as anything else so long as it's your interpretation.

**Chris_P**

For arguments sake I think we need to go with the most recent canon available for whatever group you are talking about or at least let us know what canon time period you are bringing to the discussion. We all know that the only constant with 40K fluff is change.

**Void__Dragon**

Niexist wrote:
Wow and with 250,000 they still won less battles than the Luna Wolves, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves, since that is the order given for the most successful chapter/primarch.

Pretty pathetic when you have 10x as many space marines as everyone else, and still don't win more battles.

You seem upset.

The Ultramarines also had the most successful compliances, of any chapter.

**Niexist**

Void__Dragon wrote:
Niexist wrote:
Wow and with 250,000 they still won less battles than the Luna Wolves, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves, since that is the order given for the most successful chapter/primarch.

Pretty pathetic when you have 10x as many space marines as everyone else, and still don't win more battles.

You seem upset.

The Ultramarines also had the most successful compliances, of any chapter.

I'm not upset, I'm just quickly learning why most people don't like ultramarines, or ultramarine players.

**Orblivion**

Niexist wrote:
Void__Dragon wrote:
Niexist wrote:
Wow and with 250,000 they still won less battles than the Luna Wolves, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves, since that is the order given for the most successful chapter/primarch.

Pretty pathetic when you have 10x as many space marines as everyone else, and still don't win more battles.

You seem upset.

The Ultramarines also had the most successful compliances, of any chapter.

I'm not upset, I'm just quickly learning why most people don't like ultramarines, or ultramarine players.

Well it might not have been their job to stick around and set up their own little empire strictly speaking, but the worlds controlled by the Ultramarines are in better shape than any other area of the Imperium now. So overall they did a better job.

**Void__Dragon**

Niexist wrote:

I'm not upset, I'm just quickly learning why most people don't like ultramarines, or ultramarine players.

What makes you think any of us are Ultramarines players?

I'm sorry that the Ultramarines could muster a force that would crush the Dark Angels without much fuss, but that is no reason to be so upset.

**Mr Morden**

@Niexist

Speaking for myself I have Dark Angels, Ultramarines and Space Wolves as vaiable armies and building up my Black Templars...........

I really think you should just content yourself with the fact that the Dark Angels are a formidable force within the Imperium.........driven mainly by hidden secrets and a search for attonement.

Does the current fluff still have the Lion sleeping in their fortress? If he awoke, well then all bets are off as a living Primarch could unite or destroy the Imperium (or both) under his leadership.

**Wolfex101**

I am a Dark Angels player and I agree that the Ultramarines would definitely be able to muster an army that could beat the Dark Angels. However, I doubt that they actually would. Gathering the army and resources needed to wipe out the Dark Angels is something the Ultramarines and the Imperium just can't spare. Even if they did there would be huge areas of Imperial space severely weakened or completely undefended. The Dark Angels and their successors would have no problem doing this if they had to. The Ultramarines also have the weakness of their devotion to the Codex. The Dark Angels would know all of their tricks and plans and use that to their advantage. They would inflict heavy casualties onto the Ultramarines before they kick the bucket. All in all, it wouldn't look pretty for the Imperium if they ever decided to make a move on the Dark Angels.

**Mr Morden**

Indeed - as the Dark Angels are a mobile Chapter - it makes it even harder to bring them battle on your terms.

The Inquisiton could do it if they found cause but they would need a very flexible and extremely powerful force to do so. Thats not to say a vain and power mad Inquisitor would not try...........Going to war with a First Founding Chapter is usually a major error.......those who instigate such actions tend to suffer, even as the Imperium does.

**Very Superstitious**

Everyone seems to have forgotten about pretty much the largest asset the Dark Angels have, The Rock. After the entire Dark Angels legion fleet bombarded and tore apart and entire planet that shield was still going strong, albeit with a few cracks. If the Dark Angels made a stand on The Rock, it would be near impossible for the Imperium to bring the resources to bear to take it.

Plus with the rumour of STCs on board, they couldt just blast it to smithereens, and then when the boarding action happens, the undisclosed amount of Deathwing members come into play...

**mjl7atlas**

Ok, now I am intrigued as to where this "STC" and "undisclosed amount of Deathwing" information came from.

**Niexist**

mjl7atlas wrote:
Ok, now I am intrigued as to where this "STC" and "undisclosed amount of Deathwing" information came from.

From the newest DA codex.

The Dark Talon does not just drop ordnance; it delivers an
archaic holdover from the Age of Technology. The weapon
carried in the belly of each Dark Talon is an archaic stasis
bomb. In the workshops deep in the Rock, the Techmarines
labour lovingly over the construction of each bomb, using
an STC template they have repeatedly denied owning.

Then if you look at the Command chain in the codex, it clearly says the 1st and 2nd company have "an undisclosded number of deathwing terminator/knight squads" and "an undisclosed number of bikes, land speeders, and atmospheric fighters"

**sing your life**

I think some of the chaos legions could get really strong if they came together.

**herpguy**

I'm pretty sure I read that Space Wolves are almost at legion strength.

**Mr Morden**

Where did you read that?

Legions (in current fluff) had tens of thousands of the Marines, some had several hundred thousand Marines.

If the Wolves had that many the Imperium would be a very different place ...............

**Kain**

The Space Wolf great companies are of unknown size, but are stated to be larger than a codex compliant company and at times operate almost like chapters of their own rather than companies. So an exceedingly generous estimate would be twelve thousand space wolves.

**raiden**

dark angels are just emo

.

But as for the topic Smurfs win, just to many + they have thicker plot armor haha. space wolves have nowhere near to legion strength unless I missed that in there lore.

But, personally, I would much rather live on a planet ruled by the smurfs (Macragge) than DA, BA, or SW. if marneus called all of the smurfs successors to aid him then over half the marines in the imperium would be bound towards Ultramar.

**Void__Dragon**

Kain wrote:
The Space Wolf great companies are of unknown size, but are stated to be larger than a codex compliant company and at times operate almost like chapters of their own rather than companies. So an exceedingly generous estimate would be twelve thousand space wolves.

More like an exceedingly wrong statement, lol.

There are twelve Great Companies.

The largest of them numbers 200 Marines.

This comes out to a number of less than 2,400. And in Battle of the Fang, the Space Wolves number about 2,000. The number could have increased or decreased in that amount of time, though not by much.