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 HerbaciousT wrote:


David Attenborough is old and British. He has one of the single greatest narrative voices known to man.

Someones never heard a Morgan Freeman documentary

Ward. Bangels deserve some buffing, and Ward delivers when it comes to buffing unique playstyles. I just turn a blind eye to disagreeable fluff (GK wearing Sisters as war paint was a line he should never have crossed).

SJ

Th0rh4mm3r wrote:

 darthnatus wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Jimsolo, the BA are now the worst list in the game. It's not about tactics, its about overpaying for every unit in the codex. There is literally no way to overcome this over the course of a series of matches.

3 Death Company (no jetpacks) for 60 pts. 10 pts/model less than Tyranid Warriors who are synapse creatures or 3 pts/less than Ymgarls who are tank busters (Leman Russes are easy, Land Raiders are a bit of a challenge) and they only get pistols and chainswords.

Yet they are only 1 point more expensive on foot than Khorne Berserkers and totally worth the point to boot!

What kills the Blood Angel Codex for me is the cost of the bloody jump packs! 15 points for a jump pack for a single Death Company Marine. This needs to come down closer to 3 points to be competitive. Anything more than that and you might as well take Rhino's and just pile out on your oponents turn one when it gets wrecked.

Every model in that Codex that can take Jump Packs as an option are over paying compared to 6th ed book.

Edit: I'd take Ward or Vetock for Blood Angels. I would like Cruddace too over Kelly. The Space Marine Codex has a lot of interesting builds in it. Kelly's Chaos Marine Codex was un-imaginative.

There's more than that killing the codex, but the jump pack situation is certainly a big one, I won't argue there. Isn't there a way to make Berserkers score? That alone can potentially make them infinitely more valuable, depending on the circumstance.

Ward. Bangels deserve some buffing, and Ward delivers when it comes to buffing unique playstyles.

Exactly. I don't even care so much about the "buffing", but Ward is very good at writing rules that allow unique and different play styles which is exactly what the BAs should have (at least in comparison to other MEQs).

So it sounds like the problem with the codex isn't an issue of the codex being outdated, but of people trying to play 6th edition games with 5th edition tactics ... drivel ...

I'm not sure you quite get what people are driving at. It's a lot more than just the assault nerf. They are pointed very very high for the standards of this edition and some of their usr's don't actually even really work anymore. Saying "Your army is fine because tactics" followed up by listing vague anecdotes like "well I saw two guys", and "that time I used them once" almost always smacks to me of someone who doesn't really get the issues and wants to come across as "superior" in some way. Apologies if I've misunderstood you.

Admittedly, they are not nearly as bad in this edition as some think, but yeah, they have some huge huge problems that you're just not going to over-come over the course of say, a 4/5 game tournament. As an allied detachment they are a little better and that's what mine had been relegated to (mainly so I could get a Storm Raven into my DA army), but since the new marine book is out I don't even use them for that anymore. They really do need a significant update.

Yeah, they're as bad as I think. I've lost once to other BA this edition. Reverse that for Eldar. You think that's a coincidence?

Granted, way too many BA players try to play them too macho and I shoot them to pieces. And then spoiling assault them. Nothing says "BA lose" like spoiling assaults.

But the same play style works even worse against Tau/Eldar. I try to use fast vehicle/SoS/Corbulo shenanigans against Tau/Eldar/Demons, but it really just doesn't work.

Not ward if you value your story. He makes good if not OP rules but he really butchers the back story of your army. I have refused to purchase books written by ward since really the back story is at least half of what your paying for and just torrent his books for the rules. I'll read the fluff better writers write in other editions.

RIP Beloved Necrons, Burn in Hell Tomb Kings in Space.

From reading my Necrons I would have to say Ward.
He might overdo the fluff a little bit, but he's way better and more interesting in writing the rules.

Fortunately, BA fluff is a lot more established than Necron fluff.

Punisher wrote:
Not ward if you value your story. He makes good if not OP rules but he really butchers the back story of your army. I have refused to purchase books written by ward since really the back story is at least half of what your paying for and just torrent his books for the rules. I'll read the fluff better writers write in other editions.

RIP Beloved Necrons, Burn in Hell Tomb Kings in Space.

Are you actually mentioning to pirate books, Seriously?

Being a thief isn't exactly better when you complain as such.

Also Metal Tyranids wasn't exactly a better theme.

 aapch45 wrote:
I honestly want Phil Kelly to write the blood angels codex, maybe with troke, although, dakka you are going to Hate me, I wouldn't mind seeing robin cruddace CO WRITE with Phil..

What do you think? Who should write..... gods (and emprah) know they need a reboot. I feel so bad for my poor blood angel friend..

Let me know dakka! Thanks

Whomever wrote the CSM codex. Great codex.

@thraeda: Please discuss IP thievery on some other site. It's not welcome here.

Also Metal Tyranids wasn't exactly a better theme.

Mecha-Nids ... yes. This image pleases me. lol

Whomever wrote the CSM codex. Great codex.

Insert "Can't tell if serious" meme here ...

I'd prefer that BA not become "codex: some overpowered unit that sucks all the creativity from the list" like CSM.

 darthnatus wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Jimsolo, the BA are now the worst list in the game. It's not about tactics, its about overpaying for every unit in the codex. There is literally no way to overcome this over the course of a series of matches.

3 Death Company (no jetpacks) for 60 pts. 10 pts/model less than Tyranid Warriors who are synapse creatures or 3 pts/less than Ymgarls who are tank busters (Leman Russes are easy, Land Raiders are a bit of a challenge) and they only get pistols and chainswords.

Also they can't claim objectives despite being troops choices.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:

Th0rh4mm3r wrote:

 darthnatus wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Jimsolo, the BA are now the worst list in the game. It's not about tactics, its about overpaying for every unit in the codex. There is literally no way to overcome this over the course of a series of matches.

3 Death Company (no jetpacks) for 60 pts. 10 pts/model less than Tyranid Warriors who are synapse creatures or 3 pts/less than Ymgarls who are tank busters (Leman Russes are easy, Land Raiders are a bit of a challenge) and they only get pistols and chainswords.

Yet they are only 1 point more expensive on foot than Khorne Berserkers and totally worth the point to boot!

What kills the Blood Angel Codex for me is the cost of the bloody jump packs! 15 points for a jump pack for a single Death Company Marine. This needs to come down closer to 3 points to be competitive. Anything more than that and you might as well take Rhino's and just pile out on your oponents turn one when it gets wrecked.

Every model in that Codex that can take Jump Packs as an option are over paying compared to 6th ed book.

Edit: I'd take Ward or Vetock for Blood Angels. I would like Cruddace too over Kelly. The Space Marine Codex has a lot of interesting builds in it. Kelly's Chaos Marine Codex was un-imaginative.

There's more than that killing the codex, but the jump pack situation is certainly a big one, I won't argue there. Isn't there a way to make Berserkers score? That alone can potentially make them infinitely more valuable, depending on the circumstance.

Death Company on foot are the best of our troops choices in terms of power level in 6th. They do need a transport though to get them across the table. However they are not scoring units, so it means you then have to make the list around wiping out your opponent. Assault squads with jump packs don't do much, but then anything with jump packs is pretty rubbish for us in 6th ed.

Jimsolo is right when he says that the way we play is different now and a change of tactics is needed but considering that our whole codex was geared towards jump pack marines and now jump pack marines are rubbish is a big concern for us. They just don't make it across the table. That was one area where we excelled before in 5th edition. The fact that we need to rely now on the areas where our codex wasn't geared towards is actually our weakness because we are not working with what is supposed to be our strength but we are working with the other areas of the codex that didn't get much attention.

For instance, take Terminators. They are certainly as good as SM Termies, but we don't get any characters i.e. Lysander to attach to them to make them a super strong beatstick.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
Fortunately, BA fluff is a lot more established than Necron fluff.

I hope this isn't a case of people hating Mephiston fluff. I remember discussing this one time with people and they didn't like the fluff of how Mephiston came to be and then blamed Matt Ward for it. I had to point out to them that Ward didn't write that fluff and that Mephiston was like that way back in 3rd ed.

Th0rh4mm3r wrote:

 darthnatus wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Jimsolo, the BA are now the worst list in the game. It's not about tactics, its about overpaying for every unit in the codex. There is literally no way to overcome this over the course of a series of matches.

3 Death Company (no jetpacks) for 60 pts. 10 pts/model less than Tyranid Warriors who are synapse creatures or 3 pts/less than Ymgarls who are tank busters (Leman Russes are easy, Land Raiders are a bit of a challenge) and they only get pistols and chainswords.

Yet they are only 1 point more expensive on foot than Khorne Berserkers and totally worth the point to boot!

What kills the Blood Angel Codex for me is the cost of the bloody jump packs! 15 points for a jump pack for a single Death Company Marine. This needs to come down closer to 3 points to be competitive. Anything more than that and you might as well take Rhino's and just pile out on your oponents turn one when it gets wrecked.

Every model in that Codex that can take Jump Packs as an option are over paying compared to 6th ed book.

Edit: I'd take Ward or Vetock for Blood Angels. I would like Cruddace too over Kelly. The Space Marine Codex has a lot of interesting builds in it. Kelly's Chaos Marine Codex was un-imaginative.

Cruddace fluff isn't actually too bad, it's his rules that make me hate his writing.

Also, the DC mehreens are overpriced TO THE MAX as the initial loadout is near useless, and upgrades for BA are extremely pricey.

Punisher wrote:Not ward if you value your story. He makes good if not OP rules but he really butchers the back story of your army. I have refused to purchase books written by ward since really the back story is at least half of what your paying for and just torrent his books for the rules. I'll read the fluff better writers write in other editions.

RIP Beloved Necrons, Burn in Hell Tomb Kings in Space.

I think both versions of Necron are pretty good fluff-wise. Ward's great at rules, he just needs to let someone else do fluff.

DarthOvious wrote:

 darthnatus wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Jimsolo, the BA are now the worst list in the game. It's not about tactics, its about overpaying for every unit in the codex. There is literally no way to overcome this over the course of a series of matches.

3 Death Company (no jetpacks) for 60 pts. 10 pts/model less than Tyranid Warriors who are synapse creatures or 3 pts/less than Ymgarls who are tank busters (Leman Russes are easy, Land Raiders are a bit of a challenge) and they only get pistols and chainswords.

Also they can't claim objectives despite being troops choices.

... I like your name

Punisher wrote:
Not ward if you value your story. He makes good if not OP rules but he really butchers the back story of your army. I have refused to purchase books written by ward since really the back story is at least half of what your paying for and just torrent his books for the rules. I'll read the fluff better writers write in other editions.

RIP Beloved Necrons, Burn in Hell Tomb Kings in Space.

Necrons were already thematically Tomb Kings in Space before Ward worked on their book, and by a LOT of rumormonger accounts he was not the first person to work on that book and may have just done a final polish on it.

Old Necron Lord Model BTW:


So yeah, Tomb Kings in Space. You can even take it further as both Necrons and Tomb Kings are undead races, both have ties to Egypt thematically (CCW weapon design and for Necrons they had Space Pyramids), oh and both are basically raging against younger races and species and while the generals are still full of personality, their troops are not.

So yeah totally Ward's fault there.

On another note, Ward already did the 5th Ed Blood Angels book, so by some accounts it's already "ruined", so how can it really get "ruined" again?

 darthnatus wrote:

... I like your name

Always two there are. So if we see any more sith lords round here we better kill them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ClockworkZion wrote:

Punisher wrote:
Not ward if you value your story. He makes good if not OP rules but he really butchers the back story of your army. I have refused to purchase books written by ward since really the back story is at least half of what your paying for and just torrent his books for the rules. I'll read the fluff better writers write in other editions.

RIP Beloved Necrons, Burn in Hell Tomb Kings in Space.

Necrons were already thematically Tomb Kings in Space before Ward worked on their book, and by a LOT of rumormonger accounts he was not the first person to work on that book and may have just done a final polish on it.

Old Necron Lord Model BTW:


So yeah, Tomb Kings in Space. You can even take it further as both Necrons and Tomb Kings are undead races, both have ties to Egypt thematically (CCW weapon design and for Necrons they had Space Pyramids), oh and both are basically raging against younger races and species and while the generals are still full of personality, their troops are not.

So yeah totally Ward's fault there.

On another note, Ward already did the 5th Ed Blood Angels book, so by some accounts it's already "ruined", so how can it really get "ruined" again?

Gosh!!!! You're not saying that Ward is getting blamed for fluff he isn't responsible for are you? Imagine that.

 DarthOvious wrote:

 darthnatus wrote:

... I like your name

Always two there are. So if we see any more sith lords round here we better kill them.

I keep trying to read your name as "Darth Obvious" the Sith Cousin to "Captain Obvious".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarthOvious wrote:
Gosh!!!! You're not saying that Ward is getting blamed for fluff he isn't responsible for are you? Imagine that.

Honestly, I'm surprised I haven't seen claims that he made the Dodo, the Dinosaurs and at least 3 kinds of really fluffy baby seals go extinct and is causing Global Warming at this point. The man's list of sins is becoming more myth than reality by people who don't do the research and just like to assign blame.

The thing is that Ward DOES have issues writing solid fluff, but those can be ascribed to a lack of a real editor/proofreader who helps him refine his ideas. The rest is hyperbole and classic internet escalation that tries to turn small things into really big things.

Like how people claim the Necrons and Blood Angels are now Super Bestest Friends Forever because they stopped fighting each other, killed the F--- out of a Tyranid invasion and both sides were so depleted that they said "Screw it. I'll kill you next time." That is not a friendly relationship, that's one of mutual convenience. If it'd been a different Dynasty fighting the Blood Angels things may have been different.

The point is that the internet as (a collective whole mind you) is REALLY bad at research. Well that and being objective about things.

Honestly, I'm surprised I haven't seen claims that he made the Dodo, the Dinosaurs and at least 3 kinds of really fluffy baby seals go extinct and is causing Global Warming at this point. The man's list of sins is becoming more myth than reality by people who don't do the research and just like to assign blame.

I don't really know anything about the man beyond his Codex work (which I enjoy - I got in to 40k when noise marines still rocked actual electric guitars so in my mind excessively over- the - top writing fits the setting just right), but I like to think of him as having a running series of jokes with his office buddies. They would be jokes similar to the Chuck Norris jokes, only instead of how tough he is they would involve the things Ward has supposedly done wrong. lol

So anyway, yeah, I still say I'd like him to write the book again, but to maybe team with Vetock. While Ward's rules tend to be fun, Vetock has had some very good success with synergy in the books he's written.

ClockworkZion wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

 darthnatus wrote:

... I like your name

Always two there are. So if we see any more sith lords round here we better kill them.

I keep trying to read your name as "Darth Obvious" the Sith Cousin to "Captain Obvious".

Nah, it was a name I came up with one time when trying to make my Xbox live username. It has just stuck with me ever since.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarthOvious wrote:
Gosh!!!! You're not saying that Ward is getting blamed for fluff he isn't responsible for are you? Imagine that.

Honestly, I'm surprised I haven't seen claims that he made the Dodo, the Dinosaurs and at least 3 kinds of really fluffy baby seals go extinct and is causing Global Warming at this point. The man's list of sins is becoming more myth than reality by people who don't do the research and just like to assign blame.

The thing is that Ward DOES have issues writing solid fluff, but those can be ascribed to a lack of a real editor/proofreader who helps him refine his ideas. The rest is hyperbole and classic internet escalation that tries to turn small things into really big things.

Sure the fluff behind Draigo is a bit weird but to be honest I like the fluff in the BA codex. I love The Sanguinor and all the fluff behind him. Also to boot he is pretty much my favourite 40k model. Its just sad that I don't think he is worth the points anymore.

Like how people claim the Necrons and Blood Angels are now Super Bestest Friends Forever because they stopped fighting each other, killed the F--- out of a Tyranid invasion and both sides were so depleted that they said "Screw it. I'll kill you next time." That is not a friendly relationship, that's one of mutual convenience. If it'd been a different Dynasty fighting the Blood Angels things may have been different.

I have to point this out too. Even to Necron players who should know better.

The point is that the internet as (a collective whole mind you) is REALLY bad at research. Well that and being objective about things.

This is true

On the topic of bad Ward fluff why in hell does Calgar kill an Avatar with ease even though he got his ass handed to him by the Swarmlord and only survived because of his Honor Guard? It seems like everybody's killing Avatars these days. In the codex entry for Avatar of Khaine does it just say "Gets his ass handed to him repeatedly."?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the topic of bad Ward fluff why in hell does Calgar kill an Avatar with ease even though he got his ass handed to him by the Swarmlord and only survived because of his Honor Guard? It seems like everybody's killing Avatars these days. In the codex entry for Avatar of Khaine does it just say "Gets his ass handed to him repeatedly."?

 darthnatus wrote:
On the topic of bad Ward fluff why in hell does Calgar kill an Avatar with ease even though he got his ass handed to him by the Swarmlord and only survived because of his Honor Guard? It seems like everybody's killing Avatars these days. In the codex entry for Avatar of Khaine does it just say "Gets his ass handed to him repeatedly."?

Swarmlord is much better in close combat than an Avatar.

If it makes you feel better the Sisters of Battle have Saint Praxedus who is a Canoness killed a Hive Tyrant in close combat by bashing it's head in, something that you can't even do on the tabletop (not unless the Hive Tyrant fails to wound at least 1 time and get past your 3+/4++). At least Calgar can -potentially- kill an Avatar. Especially if he's in Terminator Armor.

And fluff in the books has been said to be brainstormed and agreed on collectively at GW, they just leave the person working on the book to write the specifics up.

Personally I do not understand why people complain about the fluff. As long as the rules are solid, units make sense etc I do not care if they suddenly decided that e.g. Ultramarines are direct descendants of smurfs.

Matt ward for rules. Anyone else for fluff. But since that won't happen Phil Kelly would be nice.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Ummm...I hate to be that guy, but do the Blood Angels even need a new codex? At all? The 'dex doesn't really seem that dated to me...

...You're joking right?

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
Ummm...I hate to be that guy, but do the Blood Angels even need a new codex? At all? The 'dex doesn't really seem that dated to me...

...You're joking right?

I'm hoping he is.

 darthnatus wrote:
On the topic of bad Ward fluff why in hell does Calgar kill an Avatar with ease even though he got his ass handed to him by the Swarmlord and only survived because of his Honor Guard? It seems like everybody's killing Avatars these days. In the codex entry for Avatar of Khaine does it just say "Gets his ass handed to him repeatedly."?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the topic of bad Ward fluff why in hell does Calgar kill an Avatar with ease even though he got his ass handed to him by the Swarmlord and only survived because of his Honor Guard? It seems like everybody's killing Avatars these days. In the codex entry for Avatar of Khaine does it just say "Gets his ass handed to him repeatedly."?

It helps that the Avatar got killed before Ward wrote it in as well in previous fluff.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
Ummm...I hate to be that guy, but do the Blood Angels even need a new codex? At all? The 'dex doesn't really seem that dated to me...

...You're joking right?

Other armies are in much more need of a new codex than Blood Angels.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 darthnatus wrote:
On the topic of bad Ward fluff why in hell does Calgar kill an Avatar with ease even though he got his ass handed to him by the Swarmlord and only survived because of his Honor Guard? It seems like everybody's killing Avatars these days. In the codex entry for Avatar of Khaine does it just say "Gets his ass handed to him repeatedly."?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the topic of bad Ward fluff why in hell does Calgar kill an Avatar with ease even though he got his ass handed to him by the Swarmlord and only survived because of his Honor Guard? It seems like everybody's killing Avatars these days. In the codex entry for Avatar of Khaine does it just say "Gets his ass handed to him repeatedly."?

It helps that the Avatar got killed before Ward wrote it in as well in previous fluff.

Not good enough. Matt Ward needs to be crucified to a stake and then set on fire. Ya know, just because.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KingDeath wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
Ummm...I hate to be that guy, but do the Blood Angels even need a new codex? At all? The 'dex doesn't really seem that dated to me...

...You're joking right?

Other armies are in much more need of a new codex than Blood Angels.

Orks & Tyranids are the only two that come to mind.

Orks & Tyranids are the only two that come to mind.

Sisters Of Battle.