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I get confused with plastics, but isn't PVC the plastic that GW has always been using? The plastic that AoW used in their first dwarf boxed kit, the slayers they did with Renedra, too? And probably the original HeroQuest?

This would be awesome because it's my favourite material to work with. I'm expecting some Sedition Wars style plastic, but the other would be just perfect.

 Erasoketa wrote:
I get confused with plastics, but isn't PVC the plastic that GW has always been using? The plastic that AoW used in their first dwarf boxed kit, the slayers they did with Renedra, too? And probably the original HeroQuest?

This would be awesome because it's my favourite material to work with. I'm expecting some Sedition Wars style plastic, but the other would be just perfect.

That's polystyrene. PVC is polyvinyl chloride.

 judgedoug wrote:

 Erasoketa wrote:
I get confused with plastics, but isn't PVC the plastic that GW has always been using? The plastic that AoW used in their first dwarf boxed kit, the slayers they did with Renedra, too? And probably the original HeroQuest?

This would be awesome because it's my favourite material to work with. I'm expecting some Sedition Wars style plastic, but the other would be just perfect.

That's polystyrene. PVC is polyvinyl chloride.

Ok, thank you. So, have we seen PVC in other brands? :S I'm sorry!

Searched around and found a few people with Gamezone plastic resin in hand:

http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=72156
"Included are 30 models: 2 champion figures (one male, on female), a standard bearer, a musician, 13 male Lancers and 13 female Lancers. Only three of the female Lancers have the spears attached to them - the rest are all separate. As you can see, one of the spears has broken off the shaft in transit, but it went back on easily enough with no visible mark. Whilst some of the other spears are a bit bendy, its easy enough to straighten them out again due to the resin material.

Each model also has room on the back for a very nice dagger to be attached, which I hadn't realised. For those of you who are considering making them into Blackguard like I am, the shield hands each have a band around them, which is slightly irritating as it needs to be removed. Fortunately, again here the material works in your favour as they are pretty easy to file off. The female models are holding their left hands much higher than the male models, so I think I'll have the boys in the front ranks as their poses look more natural without shields, and the girls in the back. The shields are really nice though and its a shame I'm not going to be using them - I think that I'll hang a couple on my converted Cauldron, and maybe glue the rest back on when GW release their own plastic Blackguard so that the Lancers become spearmen again.

The final criticism that I have is for the bases. They are thinner than GW bases, as you can see in the shot below (alongside one of my converted Swordsecutioner, for comparison):

Image

When the model is mounted on a GW base, the proportions sit slightly higher/taller than a GW figure. However, this isn't too much of an issue if you want the models to stand out, and its not like GW is always consistent with their proportions and sizes anyway. Sadly, I now need to wait for 20 GW bases to arrive before I can get painting!

The two champion models come with 'slots' which you can cut off, but I had some spare straight slotta bases and just dropped them in.

Initial thoughts: So far I'm pleased, though not blown away. They'll do the job nicely and stand out from the GW range, which works well for Blackguard, and the two champion models I can use to replace the converted Cauldron attendants (freeing up the Executioners for Executioner duty again). I think the packaging could be better as the spear shafts are extremely light and prone to bending. They are, however, great value for money: 30 models for 23.99 euros. I can't remember the last time I bought a box set from GW where I got one model for each £1 spent, probably back in the £5 for 5 days, let alone <£1 per model (though maybe in the Battalions?).

I'll update with my final thoughts (and pictures) once painting is completed, which should be next weekend."

http://kiwihammer.co.nz/my-dark-elves-beginning-to-come-together/

"This is one of the Plastic Resin Dark Elf Light Cavalry from Gamezone Miniatures (http://www.gamezoneminiatures.com/tienda/es/). These models are dirt cheap and if you order from the site above they credit your account the cost of shipping so you save money on your next purchase. The kits aren’t particularly friendly to assemble and there were a lot of flash lines that needed removing but all in all it wasn’t too bad. They come with a few different weapon options (tack-on crossbows etc.) and for the price are well worth it in my opinion."

"This is one of the figures from the Gamezone Plastic Resin Spearmen set. The box gets you 30 figures (including command) for 25.50 Euros. The models go together well and are a bit cleaner than the Dark Riders. You can assemble them with or without shields but you’ll have to do some cutting/filing if you don’t want shields and the pose doesn’t really suit no shield that well. Painting was relatively easy with the details easy to get at. The box comes with a mix of male and females with the females having long hair and and different (but not exaggerated) torsos. All in all a fantastic deal."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9M8WQuLrAw

Not a great video, but shows how they come out of the box (not too detailed though).

Gamezone has some vids out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAwBvFUe49Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Oj6Ir_Atvc

That probably didn't help so lemme explain a little bit.

I don't have a chemistry degree or an advanced knowledge of all this, its just info I've picked up so I could be wrong.

They are both injection molded, but polystyrene is incredibly hard and due to the nature of the steel mold injections, can not have any overhang. This makes it a more automated process as a machine can squirt hot plastic into a steel mold and drop it out three seconds later and then do another one. Polystyrene cement is designed for this plastic as it literally melts the plastics together (glueing an arm to a body, f'instance). Moldmaking and tooling costs are super high because the steel molds have to be milled, and neither a block of steel or the machinery to cut them to a 0.3mm precision are cheap.

PVC can range from very soft (like vending machine toys) to very hard (like a PVC pipe). The molding process allows for undercuts, so figures can have more detail. However, polystyrene glue will not work on this type of plastic. The molds are cheaper but it is a less automated process, so the costs are a little higher. In recent years a lot of companies who cannot afford traditional polystyrene plastics but know that metal and resin is too expensive have been using this process, to varying degrees of success. Sedition Wars and early Mantic attempts had soft details. Altering the mixture by increasing the density of harder plastic compounds into the PVC has allowed for sturdier models with levels of detail that are far superior to traditional polystyrene (Avatars of War Pathfinders).

I have yet to hold the new Gamezone plastics in-hand but they are schedule to ship to me on 12/5. I hope to have them and post a review and pictures here for everyone to see and judge from.

 judgedoug wrote:
That probably didn't help so lemme explain a little bit.

I don't have a chemistry degree or an advanced knowledge of all this, its just info I've picked up so I could be wrong.

They are both injection molded, but polystyrene is incredibly hard and due to the nature of the steel mold injections, can not have any overhang. This makes it a more automated process as a machine can squirt hot plastic into a steel mold and drop it out three seconds later and then do another one. Polystyrene cement is designed for this plastic as it literally melts the plastics together (glueing an arm to a body, f'instance). Moldmaking and tooling costs are super high because the steel molds have to be milled, and neither a block of steel or the machinery to cut them to a 0.3mm precision are cheap.

PVC can range from very soft (like vending machine toys) to very hard (like a PVC pipe). The molding process allows for undercuts, so figures can have more detail. However, polystyrene glue will not work on this type of plastic. The molds are cheaper but it is a less automated process, so the costs are a little higher. In recent years a lot of companies who cannot afford traditional polystyrene plastics but know that metal and resin is too expensive have been using this process, to varying degrees of success. Sedition Wars and early Mantic attempts had soft details. Altering the mixture by increasing the density of harder plastic compounds into the PVC has allowed for sturdier models with levels of detail that are far superior to traditional polystyrene (Avatars of War Pathfinders).

I have yet to hold the new Gamezone plastics in-hand but they are schedule to ship to me on 12/5. I hope to have them and post a review and pictures here for everyone to see and judge from.

Wow, awesome, thank you very much. Ok, then it'll be likely similar to Sedition Wars stuff. I think I agree with the general opinion, the detail was a bit meh, and it's not an awful material to work with.

Polystyrene cement is designed for this plastic as it literally melts the plastics together (glueing an arm to a body, f'instance).

That's one of the reasons I love that kind of plastic. I only have to drill the weapons, pinning isn't necessary. Too bad this won't be the case, but I hope we will be able to see more information on the models and accesories during the campaign. Thanks a lot!

 Erasoketa wrote:

Wow, awesome, thank you very much. Ok, then it'll be likely similar to Sedition Wars stuff. I think I agree with the general opinion, the detail was a bit meh, and it's not an awful material to work with.

I'm not entirely sure... the above review that decker_cky linked to makes it sound not like the Sedition Wars type of pvc... but I have experience with Sedition Wars, Mantic, and Avatars of War style PVC so hopefully when my Dark Elves get here then I'll be able to provide an accurate comparison

 judgedoug wrote:

 Erasoketa wrote:

Wow, awesome, thank you very much. Ok, then it'll be likely similar to Sedition Wars stuff. I think I agree with the general opinion, the detail was a bit meh, and it's not an awful material to work with.

I'm not entirely sure... the above review that decker_cky linked to makes it sound not like the Sedition Wars type of pvc... but I have experience with Sedition Wars, Mantic, and Avatars of War style PVC so hopefully when my Dark Elves get here then I'll be able to provide an accurate comparison

That would be awesome. In all those reviews, I think the only comments about the material was talking about mold lines which were annoying on one kit and not so bad on the other. They also mentioned that straightening spears was easy due to the material, but not why. Need some hobbyists who have run the restic gauntlet who can compare it to the various other materials!

PVC minis can easily be bent back into their original shape by immersing them in near boiling water, bending them (they get very soft) and then putting them in cold water to 'fix' the change

you can also use this method to bend them into new positions although this is less reliable (sometimes they will revert to the old shape), this works best with sedition wars/mantic/privateer press 'harder' PVC and less well for the much softer types like Reaper Bones

eg http://studiomcvey.com/forums/index.php?/topic/934-changing-figure-stance-with-hot-water/

The thicker the bit you need to bend is the longer you need to keep the heat on it

A friend got a box of the spearmen and gave them a thumbs up as well. Only complaint was the spear shafts were bent on some, but hot water fixed it no problem. He doesn't think it is the exact same material as Mantic's miniatures. He went in on the kickstarter for that as well and has current figures to compare them too. Says the material is easier to work with and has better detail. It may still be PVC, but a slightly different formula.

Has Kickstarter set up in Europe (namely Spain)? I thought the whole reason GZ was doing this was because the Heroquest license lapsed in Spain. Don't they risk a C&D by Hasbro if doing it through the US Kickstarter site?

Short answer: no.
Long answer: the details you seek are in this very thread.

GameZone have good relations with Hasbro iberica (Hasbro spain)

Before this KS gets going, and to whet some appetites, thought it might be an idea to show some of the cool miniatures Gamezone have released

(warning: lots of pictures!)

 judgedoug wrote:
Gamezone has been transitioning to PVC over the past year. Their Dark Elf spearmen and cavalry are now available in PVC (at a tremendous savings, like a dollar per model) and their High Elf spearmen have just been released. I have the Dark Elves on order.

If they're as good as the Avatars of War PVC pathfinders, then I'll be very happy.

Keep us updated when they arrive. I might be interested in some DE Spearmen myself...

I love the designs for their Dark Elves. I wouldn't mind if they used this kickstarter as an opportunity to sell a few of their restic models.

Grrrr - its 6pm!

6PM?

Aww... I gotta wait ALL DAY?

Boo-urns.

Do they expect me to work and be productive.

So boring!

Gerinako wrote:
Grrrr - its 6pm!

I've been refreshing to see if it pops up but no luck yet...

Ditto - F5 is abused xD

Wait... 6PM in Spain... hmm... that would almost make sense.

Guess I can get back to F5'ing.

According to Uncle Google it is gone 6pm in Spain. :(

The project is cancelled

Last minute C&D from GW

*just kidding

Can't .. hold... breath......any...longer !!!

Gerinako wrote:
The project is cancelled

Last minute C&D from GW

*just kidding

You should be banned for making that comment. Really!

 Hellfury wrote:
Short answer: no.
Long answer: the details you seek are in this very thread.

Would you care to point them out to me? I have read this thread back and forth and haven't seen anything that would answer my question. They had to create a US registered company to use kickstarter, that means they could be treading on US copyrights. That the copyright never existed in Spain doesn't fix that.

The closes that comes is Guru's comment about them being on good relations with Hasbro, but there is nothing in any of the links that I see saying they got the license from Hasbro.

Don't want to put money into a Kickstarter and then see GameZone hit with a C&D preventing distribution to the US.

 silent25 wrote:

 Hellfury wrote:
Short answer: no.
Long answer: the details you seek are in this very thread.

Would you care to point them out to me? I have read this thread back and forth and haven't seen anything that would answer my question. They had to create a US registered company to use kickstarter, that means they could be treading on US copyrights. That the copyright never existed in Spain doesn't fix that.

The closes that comes is Guru's comment about them being on good relations with Hasbro, but there is nothing in any of the links that I see saying they got the license from Hasbro.

Don't want to put money into a Kickstarter and then see GameZone hit with a C&D preventing distribution to the US.

They only way they would have to create a registered US company is if they wanted to run the Kickstarter in US Dollars.

Also, it's my understanding that there's a difference between "distributing in the US" and "sending backer packages to US backers".

'US distribution' is more like, sending pallets of boxes to US distributors and them passing said boxes along to retail stores and online shops.

They might have some extra hoops to jump through regarding imports/fees/duties/whatevers (though I don't think it's nearly as bad as the stuff some EU members talk about), but it shouldn't be insurmountable.

 Pacific wrote:
Can't .. hold... breath......any...longer !!!

Gerinako wrote:
The project is cancelled

Last minute C&D from GW

*just kidding

You should be banned for making that comment. Really!

From BGG: Gamezone tweeted this about 10 minutes ago:

"Waiting for the KS green light. It may take a few hours. Keep calm and #heroquest"

Thanks for the update, Visceral, I was wondering if I was missing something

Forar wrote:Also, it's my understanding that there's a difference between "distributing in the US" and "sending backer packages to US backers".

'US distribution' is more like, sending pallets of boxes to US distributors and them passing said boxes along to retail stores and online shops.

They might have some extra hoops to jump through regarding imports/fees/duties/whatevers (though I don't think it's nearly as bad as the stuff some EU members talk about), but it shouldn't be insurmountable.

Depending on how litigious the Copyright Owner is they could cause issues for shipping product to customers in the states; ala Harmony Gold blockading all Macross related goods in the States because they 'have the rights to' the first series.

Visceral_Mass wrote:From BGG: Gamezone tweeted this about 10 minutes ago:

"Waiting for the KS green light. It may take a few hours. Keep calm and #heroquest"

Or Days if they haven't gotten approval yet.