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Made in us
Nigel Stillman





Austin, TX

Hi everyone!

So after talking with some fine folks in the News and Rumor section, I got a hankering to write up a 6th edition Guard codex.
Go to PAGE 2 to see the most recent version, including Inquisitors and Electro priests! Oh my!

First of all, I wrote it to allow for even more customization than the current codex which is quite a feat in and of itself. At the cornerstone are the Regimental Traits, which are as follows:
REGIMENTAL TRAIT
When choosing an Imperial Guard detachment, whether primary or allied, choose one of the Regimental Traits listed in this section. Mark the Trait you choose for each detachment on your roster sheet. All models benefit from the appropriate Regimental Traits for their detachment's Chapter, providing they have the Regimental Traits special rule. You must let your opponent know what Regimental Trait each detachment is employing, and what abilities it has as a result. In
most cases, this will be obvious from the colour scheme and conversions, but with over a million Guard regiments, you can never be too careful!

ALLIES
An Imperial Guard detachment chosen from this codex that has one set of Regimental Traits may ally with another Imperial Guard detachment chosen from this codex that has a different set of Regimental Traits (Sharpshooters and Warrior Society, for example). For the purposes of the Allies rules, these detachments are treated as if they were chosen from two different codexes and are treated as Battle Brothers.

The following Regimental Traits are as follows:
Sharpshooters: Any model with this trait may reroll any to-hit roll results of "1" when firing laspistols, lasguns, hot-shot laspistols, or hot-shot lasguns
Warrior Culture: All models with this trait have +1 WS, including vehicles with a WS value. They also add 1" to their charge range.
Deathworlders: All models with this trait have the Move Through Cover special rule and may reroll any Dangerous Terrain or Mysterious Terrain result, taking the better of the two in all cases
Hive Worlders: All models with this trait have the Stealth: (Ruins and/or Buildings) special rule
Guerilla Fighers: Any unit with this trait may run D3" after firing. Units which fired one or more weapons with the Heavy type may not run after firing.
Ties to the Mechanicus: This army may take Techpriests as a compulsory HQ choice as well as Elites. Furthermore, any vehicle gains IWND except that it succeeds only on a 6. Any unit with this trait joined by a Techpriest has Feels No Pain (6+)

Some things of note, as this is still a WIP:

For wargear, I have added an Imperial Honors section. It includes some really cool stuff from 3.5, like the Honorifica Imperialis which can be taken by a lot of different Sergeants to upgrade them to a monster stat-wise. Furthermore, for Stormtrooper Sgts it makes Stormtrooper squads Troops, and for Rough Rider sgts it makes Rough Riders troops.

This combined with the Regimental Trait system allows for a highly customizable army which you can really make your own.

I have attached the document which you should read through because if not, you're losing out on something which I feel is a fun read! Plus you can contribute.

Again, it's a WIP so not all the units are there.

A few fun things:
-Penal Legionnaires can be taken in squads of up to 30 and may take Bomb Collars.
-Ogryns can take a Commissar along for a ride
-Rough Riders can have a Commissar
-Stormtroopers can take 3 special weapons and their Special Operations are enhanced. They also have a 2 pt reduction per model
-Regimental Advisors expanded to include both a Commissar and Sanctioned Psyker
 Filename Imperial Guard 6E.pdf [Disk] Download
 Description Imperial Guard 6th edition [old]
 File size 108 Kbytes

 Filename 40k Guard Codex.pdf [Disk] Download
 Description Imperial Guard 6th edition [NEWEST]
 File size 267 Kbytes

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/10/26 16:27:26


 
   
Made in ca
Lord of the Fleet






Halifornia, Nova Scotia

Nothing so far jumps out as being particularly jarring or a radical departure, which is a good thing. I took a quick look through and saw some minor recosting and some changes I'd personally like to see.

I understand its not complete yet, but I'll highlight a few mildly confusing aspects I think could be streamlined.

In the CCS entry, you should include a line saying something along the lines of 'may include any number of regimental advisors from the entry below', because right now there's no link between them.

The Honorifica Imperialis is a neat idea and something I've been a proponent of and proposed on more than one occasion in differing formats. I personally think its a little weird to allow for force org slot swapping by upgrading a mere sergeant. Instead, I'd personally advocate giving the option to the CCS to become a '_______ Company Commander', where the ______ could be Rough Rider/Mounted, or Storm Trooper, or similar. So instead of buying a sergeant some medal for RR troops, you'd take a mounted command squad (infinitely more badass anyways) for 'X' pts, unlocking RRs. Same would go for Stormies; allow an option to purchase 'Stormtrooper doctrine' or some such on the CCS to unlock stormies as troops, maybe of a minimum size to prevent min squad spamming.

I'm a little tired so I'm having a hard time finding the right way to lay out the option list, but I hope you get the general idea. I'd also be a fun of a mounted CCS unlocking mounted platoons (PCS, infantry squads and SWS only, but must purchase mounts for 'X'pts), but it'd be difficult to work in neatly without overburdening the already complex troop choice platoons are.

The regiment traits seem fairly reasonable. I'd have to do some serious list building to see what broken combinations I could uncover between the warlord traits and the regiment traits.

Nothing glaring anyways, but I'll reserve my full wrath for when its done and see what I can do to break it.

Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress

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Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias! 
   
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Tactical Genius seems underpowered, I'm sure other factions have whats essentially this but which gives 1d3 scout moves/infiltrates/etc

Blow them out of the Sky on the other hand, seems overpowered. I'm not a fan of fliers, but even I think skyfire anytime, anywhere is not good game balance (looking at you Tau)

Love the Regimental Traits, they are fantastic. Also approve of the changes to the penal legion.

Would have to see the IG artillery before I could say if I approve of the 'dex as a whole. Though I imagine I won't like it - I seem to be unique in that I think multiple S10 pie plates that ignore LoS per turn is gak game design
   
Made in us
Nigel Stillman





Austin, TX

 Blacksails wrote:
Nothing so far jumps out as being particularly jarring or a radical departure, which is a good thing. I took a quick look through and saw some minor recosting and some changes I'd personally like to see.

Thanks, I feel that the underlying core of the Guard codex is incredibly solid and changing that would not be a good idea. With that being said....


I understand its not complete yet, but I'll highlight a few mildly confusing aspects I think could be streamlined.

In the CCS entry, you should include a line saying something along the lines of 'may include any number of regimental advisors from the entry below', because right now there's no link between them.

Argh, thank you for pointing that out! I will fix that in the next draft.


The Honorifica Imperialis is a neat idea and something I've been a proponent of and proposed on more than one occasion in differing formats. I personally think its a little weird to allow for force org slot swapping by upgrading a mere sergeant. Instead, I'd personally advocate giving the option to the CCS to become a '_______ Company Commander', where the ______ could be Rough Rider/Mounted, or Storm Trooper, or similar. So instead of buying a sergeant some medal for RR troops, you'd take a mounted command squad (infinitely more badass anyways) for 'X' pts, unlocking RRs. Same would go for Stormies; allow an option to purchase 'Stormtrooper doctrine' or some such on the CCS to unlock stormies as troops, maybe of a minimum size to prevent min squad spamming.

This is a much more elegant solution compared to what I was working with. To be honest I had my doubts about the way I was planning for the HI to be employed, however again I like your way of thinking and I will change it to that.

Honorifica Imperialis:
This model the improved statline (as shown in the document). In addition, it may be one of the following:
Rough Rider Company Commander: Units of Rough Riders that have a composition of 10 or more models are troops choices. The company command squad must take horses.
Storm Trooper Commander: Units of Stormtroopers that have a composition of 10 or more models are troops choices. The company command squad must take Carapace.
Hero of the Imperium: D3 units (chosen during deployment) are scoring.
Schola Progenum Commander: Units of Commissar Cadets are troops choices. (Lord Commissar only)

With these changes in mind, I think that this should be at least 40 points because of how powerful it is. I'm thinking more along the lines of 50 points.


I'm a little tired so I'm having a hard time finding the right way to lay out the option list, but I hope you get the general idea. I'd also be a fun of a mounted CCS unlocking mounted platoons (PCS, infantry squads and SWS only, but must purchase mounts for 'X'pts), but it'd be difficult to work in neatly without overburdening the already complex troop choice platoons are.

Yeah, this is also a big problem I have to consider. I personally think that making Rough Riders troops is more than enough since we should be very keen on avoiding option bloat. I do agree though, it would be a lot of fun. Perhaps a "Warrior Society" supplement could allow for this.


The regiment traits seem fairly reasonable. I'd have to do some serious list building to see what broken combinations I could uncover between the warlord traits and the regiment traits.

Nothing glaring anyways, but I'll reserve my full wrath for when its done and see what I can do to break it.


Haha, sounds good to me! And yes, I wanted to make sure the Regimental traits were reasonable. That being said, I feel like Sharpshooters is probably the best out of all of them right now, though other input is of course always appreciated.

Working on it right now, I'm honestly surprised at how many units the Guard have! I've really only touched on Infantry, absolutely no vehicles yet.
I do plan on adding some Artillery in the form of Rapier Platforms and also the Forge World Heavy Artillery Batteries.

As for Warlord traits, Unswerving and Tactical Genius are the most obviously powerful to me, with Unswerving probably being the top dog.

I should also mention that I am writing some things in very specifically to deal with the overwhelming superiority Tau and Eldar have, but it won't do a lot against anyone else. The Unswerving warlord trait in particular is a good example of this. The cheapness of Heavy Bolters and Mortars is another, and furthermore I plan on allowing Rough Riders to upgrade to a Xeno Cavalry for a 4+ armor save to allow them to deal with the AP5 of pulse rifles. This I will especially like feedback on since I've never really written anything like this before!

Thanks again for the feedback by the way, I will have a new update soon and look forward to hearing more!

:edit:
 Dakkamite wrote:
Tactical Genius seems underpowered, I'm sure other factions have whats essentially this but which gives 1d3 scout moves/infiltrates/etc

Blow them out of the Sky on the other hand, seems overpowered. I'm not a fan of fliers, but even I think skyfire anytime, anywhere is not good game balance (looking at you Tau)

That's fair about Tactical Genius, I will change that to D3 units being allowed to scout.

As for Blow them out of the Sky; yes testing has proven that this is a bit on the OP side especially with the cheaper heavy weapons teams. My logic was that if you were using this then you weren't doing FRFSRF but that wasn't really enough.


Love the Regimental Traits, they are fantastic. Also approve of the changes to the penal legion.

Thanks! Yeah I love penal legion and always wanted a horde of convicts; I'm glad others feel the same!


Would have to see the IG artillery before I could say if I approve of the 'dex as a whole. Though I imagine I won't like it - I seem to be unique in that I think multiple S10 pie plates that ignore LoS per turn is gak game design


I concur, the Manticore is one unit that definitely has some problems and it's very contentious. As I noted above, I'm planning on adding the Forgeworld Heavy Artillery (with a price increase because they're waaaay too good as they are now).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/19 03:02:11


 
   
Made in ca
Lord of the Fleet






Halifornia, Nova Scotia

Sure, this is shaping up well so far anyways. I like the Honorifica being a stat line boost, and having a separate option for unlocking troops. Minimum 10-man squads tacks on that right amount of a tax while still being useable.

I won't truly weigh in on the traits and warlords table until the whole thing is done, as then the synergy will become more apparent, and the combos truly unlocked.

I'll keep an eye on this, and even though I may disagree with your line of thinking at times, I'll always give a reasoned and well explained thought.

I do agree with Dakkamite though about the Blow it out of the sky order. It just feels...off. I don't know if I'd call it overpowered, so I'll wait until the whole thing is done to see how abusable it is.

Oh, and consider including Sentinels as part of platoons. Gives them a more defined role besides paperweights occupying a slot on the FA page.

Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress

+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+

Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias! 
   
Made in hu
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





i like the new techpriest but to be hones, I'm not a fan of these "regimental traits". They are way too much like the Chapter Traits of the SM and the trend is unique, race-specific army-wide special rules and not copy-paste stuff. Something like a built-in Close Order Drill would be much better.

Oh, and I would advise to make Commissars ICs. (out-of-FOC, 0-5/detachment ICs like the current Priests). And Priests should have Zealot. And I don't think that the way to fix RRs is to make them insanely cheap (just turn the Hunting Lances into Power Lances and they will be OK).

My armies:
14000 points 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






So far I really like what I see. I can't wait to see what you do with any kind of new weaponry or vehicles, perhaps a Leman Russ with a Grav cannon?
   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General





Beijing, China

 Vladsimpaler wrote:


The following Regimental Traits are as follows:
Sharpshooters: Any model with this trait may reroll any to-hit roll results of "1" when firing laspistols, lasguns, hot-shot laspistols, or hot-shot lasguns
Warrior Culture: All models with this trait have +1 WS, including vehicles with a WS value. They also add 1" to their charge range.
Deathworlders: All models with this trait have the Move Through Cover special rule and may reroll any Dangerous Terrain or Mysterious Terrain result, taking the better of the two in all cases
Hive Worlders: All models with this trait have the Stealth: (Ruins and/or Buildings) special rule
Guerilla Fighers: Any unit with this trait may run D3" after firing. Units which fired one or more weapons with the Heavy type may not run after firing.
Ties to the Mechanicus: This army may take Techpriests as a compulsory HQ choice as well as Elites. Furthermore, any vehicle gains IWND except that it succeeds only on a 6. Any unit with this trait joined by a Techpriest has Feels No Pain (6+)


-Stormtroopers can take 3 special weapons and their Special Operations are enhanced. They also have a 2 pt reduction per model


Rerolling 1s isnt that powerful for lasguns and laspistols, especilly for BS3 models, but for weapons that get hot, like hotshot lasguns it kind of defeats the downside of gets hot. Perhaps rerolls 2s instead.

also reducing stormtroopers cost, having options for making them troops, letting them take special weapons, AND giving an option to ignore the gets hot from their weapons seems like to many hits from the buff stick.

Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++  
   
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Nasty Nob






Ogryns should probably have bulky (or very bulky).

   
Made in us
Nigel Stillman





Austin, TX

Sheesh, gone for a day because of school and look at what happens! Let's work on this.

Blacksails wrote:Sure, this is shaping up well so far anyways. I like the Honorifica being a stat line boost, and having a separate option for unlocking troops. Minimum 10-man squads tacks on that right amount of a tax while still being useable.

I won't truly weigh in on the traits and warlords table until the whole thing is done, as then the synergy will become more apparent, and the combos truly unlocked.

I'll keep an eye on this, and even though I may disagree with your line of thinking at times, I'll always give a reasoned and well explained thought.

I do agree with Dakkamite though about the Blow it out of the sky order. It just feels...off. I don't know if I'd call it overpowered, so I'll wait until the whole thing is done to see how abusable it is.

Oh, and consider including Sentinels as part of platoons. Gives them a more defined role besides paperweights occupying a slot on the FA page.


For sure, and I appreciate the thoughts that you've given already.
Also at this point I've removed "Blow it out of the sky" and made "Bring it down!" a Junior Officer order, with the inclusion of Flyers so the unit can fire TL'ed weapons (albeit still snap fires) at flyers.

I have added in a Support Sentinel to the platoon which grants Split Fire.



AtoMaki wrote:i like the new techpriest but to be hones, I'm not a fan of these "regimental traits". They are way too much like the Chapter Traits of the SM and the trend is unique, race-specific army-wide special rules and not copy-paste stuff. Something like a built-in Close Order Drill would be much better.

I understand your concern, however given how diverse the Guard are I felt that it was the best available option.


Oh, and I would advise to make Commissars ICs. (out-of-FOC, 0-5/detachment ICs like the current Priests). And Priests should have Zealot. And I don't think that the way to fix RRs is to make them insanely cheap (just turn the Hunting Lances into Power Lances and they will be OK).


Aiight, so let me explain my design ethos to you:
First of all, Commissars are fine as they are. If I did make them another entry, then that would be one more entry and would clog up the book even further. Secondly, by only allowing up to 5 Commissars it would hurt some armies that rely on multiple Commissars. Plus I am keeping them for thematic reasons and allowing for a Schola Progenium force.

I specifically did not have Priests grant Zealot for one very good reason: they would invalidate Commissars. Why be Stubborn when you can be Fearless, after all? By not granting Fearless, I was able to have the Priests give some other cool abilities. I am allowing them to allow for a reroll of the first failed morale test every turn though.

As for Rough Riders, giving them Power Lances would be yet another nerf and one that is unneeded. Next, very few took Space Marine bikes before 6th edition, but now that they're all 20 or 21 points per model, you're starting to see viable bike lists. Finally, their cost is reduced because they are a possible Troops choice. The trend in 6th edition is cheaper cavalry and bikes and I am going with that trend.


ultimentra wrote:So far I really like what I see. I can't wait to see what you do with any kind of new weaponry or vehicles, perhaps a Leman Russ with a Grav cannon?

I actually had not even thought about that but I would love a Leman Russ with a Grav Cannon!

In fact, here's what I had planned:
Leman Russ Crusher (Demolisher chassis, 185 points)
Destroyer Grav Cannon Turret: Range 36" Str - AP2, Heavy 4 (Special Rules: Grav, Incapacitate)
Incapacitate: Any unit suffering one or more unsaved wounds from this weapon move as if they were in difficult terrain during their next turn


Exergy wrote:
 Vladsimpaler wrote:


The following Regimental Traits are as follows:
Sharpshooters: Any model with this trait may reroll any to-hit roll results of "1" when firing laspistols, lasguns, hot-shot laspistols, or hot-shot lasguns
Warrior Culture: All models with this trait have +1 WS, including vehicles with a WS value. They also add 1" to their charge range.
Deathworlders: All models with this trait have the Move Through Cover special rule and may reroll any Dangerous Terrain or Mysterious Terrain result, taking the better of the two in all cases
Hive Worlders: All models with this trait have the Stealth: (Ruins and/or Buildings) special rule
Guerilla Fighers: Any unit with this trait may run D3" after firing. Units which fired one or more weapons with the Heavy type may not run after firing.
Ties to the Mechanicus: This army may take Techpriests as a compulsory HQ choice as well as Elites. Furthermore, any vehicle gains IWND except that it succeeds only on a 6. Any unit with this trait joined by a Techpriest has Feels No Pain (6+)


-Stormtroopers can take 3 special weapons and their Special Operations are enhanced. They also have a 2 pt reduction per model


Rerolling 1s isnt that powerful for lasguns and laspistols, especilly for BS3 models, but for weapons that get hot, like hotshot lasguns it kind of defeats the downside of gets hot. Perhaps rerolls 2s instead.

also reducing stormtroopers cost, having options for making them troops, letting them take special weapons, AND giving an option to ignore the gets hot from their weapons seems like to many hits from the buff stick.


Okay, first of all I would like to agree that maybe Stormtroopers may have gotten a few too many buffs.
However, hot-shot lasguns and laspistols do not have Gets Hot! so I don't think that is a real upside to the Sharpshooters doctrine.

That being said, the Special Operations aren't that "enhanced" and Stormtroopers are 15 points per model instead of my originally planned 14. With the 3 special weapons though, they're tactically much more flexible.

The Stormtrooper officer can become a Junior Officer and issue an order to his squad, enhancing their "jack of all trades" role.


Perfect Organism wrote:Ogryns should probably have bulky (or very bulky).

I recall them taking up 2 transport spots. That is a good catch, thank you for that! They are now Bulky.


Thank you guys, I will have a significantly more updated document to post in a few hours!
   
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 Vladsimpaler wrote:

I understand your concern, however given how diverse the Guard are I felt that it was the best available option.


Hmmm... No Chaos Space Marine players were hurt during the making of this sentence ? But to make it serious: you don't have to give an overarching ability to the army to represent divergence. Just give platoons some big platoon-level upgrades (like infiltrate, carapace armour, +1 WS and so on) so everyone can pick-and-choose to assemble his own regiment on his own image instead of stuffing his speshul snowlake army into a generic Regimental Trait. And you need lots of upgrades. Don't stop under 25 or so. And remember: filling your fandex with useful and cool options is not wasting space !

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

First of all, Commissars are fine as they are. If I did make them another entry, then that would be one more entry and would clog up the book even further. Secondly, by only allowing up to 5 Commissars it would hurt some armies that rely on multiple Commissars. Plus I am keeping them for thematic reasons and allowing for a Schola Progenium force.


5 was just an ad-hoc number. If you feel 5 too few than make them 0-10. Or 0-20. Or whatever. They need that 2+ LOS and the flexibility badly. And you can make a single entry for the Commissar instead of copy-pasting his stats and options into the entry of every unit.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

I specifically did not have Priests grant Zealot for one very good reason: they would invalidate Commissars. Why be Stubborn when you can be Fearless, after all? By not granting Fearless, I was able to have the Priests give some other cool abilities. I am allowing them to allow for a reroll of the first failed morale test every turn though.


Well, Fearless has some quite big drawbacks: you cannot retreat voluntary and you cannot go to ground. And Commissars are also better in combat/challenges. And it is not like the Priest needs extra abilities, least it will really grow onto the head of the poor Commissar.

Oh, and to Rough Riders, I meant that they should have multi-use hunting lances that are similar to power lances: big hit on charge, weak attack afterwards but if you can overrun someone then you will be awesome. Bikers had hidden potential and were somewhat popular even before their price drop (I don't even start with the grav guns and their synergy with Kor'sarro Khan) - the Rough Riders have none of these. IMHO they really-really need some buffing instead of just a plain price drop because cheap garbage is still garbage.

My armies:
14000 points 
   
Made in us
Nigel Stillman





Austin, TX

 AtoMaki wrote:
 Vladsimpaler wrote:

I understand your concern, however given how diverse the Guard are I felt that it was the best available option.


Hmmm... No Chaos Space Marine players were hurt during the making of this sentence ? But to make it serious: you don't have to give an overarching ability to the army to represent divergence. Just give platoons some big platoon-level upgrades (like infiltrate, carapace armour, +1 WS and so on) so everyone can pick-and-choose to assemble his own regiment on his own image instead of stuffing his speshul snowlake army into a generic Regimental Trait. And you need lots of upgrades. Don't stop under 25 or so. And remember: filling your fandex with useful and cool options is not wasting space !

Haha, CSM suffer from being a test book. That being said, I think that you have some good ideas but I'm attempting to write this as if it was a real 6th edition codex. And the option bloat is a big thing since I would like this codex to be fairly simple. (inb4 guard are never simple)


 Vladsimpaler wrote:

First of all, Commissars are fine as they are. If I did make them another entry, then that would be one more entry and would clog up the book even further. Secondly, by only allowing up to 5 Commissars it would hurt some armies that rely on multiple Commissars. Plus I am keeping them for thematic reasons and allowing for a Schola Progenium force.


5 was just an ad-hoc number. If you feel 5 too few than make them 0-10. Or 0-20. Or whatever. They need that 2+ LOS and the flexibility badly. And you can make a single entry for the Commissar instead of copy-pasting his stats and options into the entry of every unit.

This is fair and I think ultimately it's a good idea (see you got me with the option bloat )
I have made Commissars a non-FOC taking choice. Their Advisors special rule allows one to be purchased for every infantry unit you have in your army.


 Vladsimpaler wrote:

I specifically did not have Priests grant Zealot for one very good reason: they would invalidate Commissars. Why be Stubborn when you can be Fearless, after all? By not granting Fearless, I was able to have the Priests give some other cool abilities. I am allowing them to allow for a reroll of the first failed morale test every turn though.


Well, Fearless has some quite big drawbacks: you cannot retreat voluntary and you cannot go to ground. And Commissars are also better in combat/challenges. And it is not like the Priest needs extra abilities, least it will really grow onto the head of the poor Commissar.

How I'm differentiating the Priest and the Commissar is that the Priest is for hand-to-hand and balls-to-the-wall craziness (see the Holy Relic). The Commissar is more for a passive support option with his Stubborn. That way, you can have both a Commissar and Priest in the same unit and get extra bonuses. I added that a Priest allows you to reroll failed morale tests as long as you outnumber your enemy in combat which is nifty and not necessarily fearless.


Oh, and to Rough Riders, I meant that they should have multi-use hunting lances that are similar to power lances: big hit on charge, weak attack afterwards but if you can overrun someone then you will be awesome. Bikers had hidden potential and were somewhat popular even before their price drop (I don't even start with the grav guns and their synergy with Kor'sarro Khan) - the Rough Riders have none of these. IMHO they really-really need some buffing instead of just a plain price drop because cheap garbage is still garbage.


Well, I just made it so that Hunting Lances are no longer one-use only. I feel like they certainly had potential; they're a unit that just need some extra utility. Rough Riders have pretty much always been a primarily counter charge unit, though now that Hunting Lances have Rending they're a lot better. Plus bigger squads equals more special weapons. I have always viewed them as more of a Dragoon unit in that sense.

 Filename 40k Guard Codex.pdf [Disk] Download
 Description 40k Guard Codex 6.2
 File size 267 Kbytes

   
Made in us
Nigel Stillman





Austin, TX

Okay, so changes for the most recent document:

Added in HQ special characters

Changed HQ stats around so that officers and special characters now have Initiative 4. I don't know why they reduced it to 3 in 5th edition but I've brought it back. Commissars also have I4 and are now an HQ choice.

They are, as of current:

-Commissar Yarrick (who has his teeth back, metaphorically speaking)
-Iron Hand Straken (now has a 6+ FNP to represent bionics and is a beast in combat)
-Colonel Shaeffer (he's baaaaaack!)
-Lord Solar Macharius (as ballin' as ever with a 3+ invulnerable save and some really swanky abilities. Plus he has THREE warlord traits.)
-Lord Castellan Creed (now has BS5 and his For the Honor of Cadia has been changed to For the Honor of the Imperium to allow for counts-as. Grants ATSKNF as an order!)
-Jarran Kell is now an upgrade character


Let's see here, I also added in a majority of the heavy support.
Of one notable entry is the new, upgunned and fething hilarious Deathstrike's Plasma Warhead which has the following special rules:
Armorbane, Wrecker, Shred, Strikedown, Ignores Cover, Concussive, Instant Death, One Use Only

Yep. It's 150 points so it's still a gamble but when it pays off, oh man does it pay off!

Some other things:
Sergeants in general have access to Special Issue Wargear, which for the moment allows Bionics or Melta Bombs. I am planning on adding in the old 4th edition Surveyor and I may add a couple small items for personalizing your dude.

Another big thing; Sergeants can now exchange their laspistol for a lasgun! How cool is that? Hell they can all take Storm Bolters now too which is pretty cool.
Imperial Guard veteran sergeants have BS4 as well which is nifty, but they are now an upgrade ala Space Marines.
   
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Nasty Nob






 Vladsimpaler wrote:
Of one notable entry is the new, upgunned and fething hilarious Deathstrike's Plasma Warhead which has the following special rules:
Armorbane, Wrecker, Shred, Strikedown, Ignores Cover, Concussive, Instant Death, One Use Only


I think that Concussive might be a little redundant on something that already has Instant Death.

   
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Nigel Stillman





Austin, TX

Perfect Organism wrote:
 Vladsimpaler wrote:
Of one notable entry is the new, upgunned and fething hilarious Deathstrike's Plasma Warhead which has the following special rules:
Armorbane, Wrecker, Shred, Strikedown, Ignores Cover, Concussive, Instant Death, One Use Only


I think that Concussive might be a little redundant on something that already has Instant Death.


You never know, they might have Eternal Warrior. :3

Also this isn't included in the current document but I was reading some background on the Deathstrike and they also have Virus Warheads.

So with that in mind, the Virus Warhead can replace the Plasma Warhead for no cost.

Its abilities:
Viral Warhead
Range: Infinite
Str: 7
AP: 2
Type: Heavy 1, Blast D3"+5
Rules: Poisoned 2+, Blind, Ignores Cover, One Use Only, Instant Death

So this has a bigger radius than the Plasma Warhead (D3+5" as opposed to D3+3", and isn't as good against vehicles, but it is significantly killier versus Infantry. I know it's silly but I like having some fun units in the army as well. I was considering adding Soul Blaze for the hell of it, lmao

:edit:
I know some may balk at the "OP"ness of the warheads but considering that it will statistically only be able to fire once you hit turn 3 (ignoring any crew shaken/weapon destroyed) and it's a one use only thing, I think it's more worth it than it once was. Thoughts/criticism are appreciated for this underappreciated unit!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/21 22:47:49


 
   
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Nigel Stillman





Austin, TX

Howdy!

Been busy with school and studyan' and learning to code so I haven't had the time to update this. Also, please feel free to add in whatever. I have been very receptive overall to ideas here so don't be afraid to put your mark on this codex! I want this to be a community effort so please don't miss out on a great chance.

Anyway, newest document:
First of all, ignore the table of contents.

Additions and fun stuff:
-Added Nork Deddog. I gave him 4 Wounds because he's a hero level character and heroes typically have an additional wound. He's a beast to put down!
-Added Captain Mogul Kamir. That's right, Captain! He gets a huge upgrade in the form of now having 3 wounds and being an upgrade to the Command squad. He is pretty beastly and although he might be a bit on the overcosted side, he makes Rough Riders troops.
-Added Manticores. I have reduced their cost by a little bit and in turn they no longer have their D3 blasts. I feel like there might be a better way to fix them so suggestions are helpful as always!
-Added Valkyries and Vendettas. Vendettas have a points increase, lose the ability to form squadrons, and lose the ability to do a Grav-Chute Insertion.
-Added Sergeant Bastonne who is now much less expensive and a much better buy
-Added Gunner Sergeant Harker, who will always be a tough bastard!
-Earthshaker cannons have Concussive

Minor mechanical deals:

Both Junior and Senior Officers pass their LOS! rolls on a 2+ instead of a 4+. This helps with surviveability a ton and is something they should have had anyway.
 Filename Guard codex 9-24-2013.pdf [Disk] Download
 Description Guard codex updated 9-24-2013
 File size 179 Kbytes

   
Made in us
Nigel Stillman





Austin, TX

Ouch, no replies. Brb killing self

Anyway, in this update, since I've added all of the units from Codex: Imperial Guard I thought I would add some more wacky/fun stuff.

In this update, we see:

-Inquisitors!
Yes that's right, an Inquisitor. Taking one of these bad boys alters the ally matrix chart for Guard, making you allies of convenience with most Space marine chapters and making you become "Come the Apocalypse" allies with Chaos. In return, you are now Battle Brothers with Grey Knights. Oh and the Inquisitor can take some snazzy stuff so it's worth it. They cannot be taken as a compulsory HQ, however.

-Electro Priests!
Yes that's doubly right, Electro Priests. These guys are a troops choice but cannot be taken as compulsory troops choices unless you have a Tech Priest as an HQ (read: you need the Ties to the Mechanicus trait to take these guys as a compulsory troops choice)

They are pretty badass, being Str9 in combat but they're also 8 points for a T3 5+ save unit with a 12" ranged weapon. They do have Rage so they are pretty brutal. Check them out on Lexicanum!

-Xeno Hunters!

Yeah baby, Xeno Hunters. They are 50 points for 10 guys who have Preferred Enemy: Xenos. They have the option to take a bunch of different xeno weaponry like pulse rifles and shuriken catapults which is pretty neat. They also have the option for a special rule like Hit and Run, Furious Charge, or Hatred to add to the fact that they are hunting xenos!

Of course as of writing this I realize that I should've given them an option for Stealth but I will add that in the next one.

Other than that, everything is about the same. Some theory-testing has gone well and you can make tons of cool builds in this that are still pretty good. Hellhounds are absolutely wreckage against Tau and Vanquishers do pretty good work against the Waveserpent shield spam lists.

Again, any and all comments are helpful!
 Filename Guard Codex Finished (!).pdf [Disk] Download
 Description Guard Codex updated 9-27-2013
 File size 184 Kbytes

   
Made in ca
Lord of the Fleet






Halifornia, Nova Scotia

I'll be taking a look later today or tomorrow.

I'm still interested in seeing how this project goes.

Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress

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One thing I noticed is bomb collars, which IMO seems to be too powerful. I think the main point of a bomb collar should be something to keep the unit in line more than as a big bomb. Maybe something like "if the unit fails a morale test remove one model in the unit as a casualty, every model in base contact with it suffers a strength A AP B hit." (put in your own numbers for A and B)
   
Made in us
Nigel Stillman





Austin, TX

Blacksails wrote:I'll be taking a look later today or tomorrow.

I'm still interested in seeing how this project goes.


Sounds great, thanks! I've gotten pretty good reviews on some other sites. In particular people were a big fan of the Ties to the Mechanicus, but thought that giving everything in the Platoon squad Combined Squads was a bit too good so I'd like to hear thoughts on that.

Buttons wrote:One thing I noticed is bomb collars, which IMO seems to be too powerful. I think the main point of a bomb collar should be something to keep the unit in line more than as a big bomb. Maybe something like "if the unit fails a morale test remove one model in the unit as a casualty, every model in base contact with it suffers a strength A AP B hit." (put in your own numbers for A and B)


Hm, well the bomb collar is only a Str4 AP6 Blast with the Shred and Ignore cover rules. As it is, it's a slighty up-gunned Frag Missile for 5 points. I do like the idea about purposefully detonating the bomb to get the unit in line.

So in that case, how about this?
Bomb Collar: Whenever this unit would fall back, instead remove one model with a Bomb Collar and the unit counts as having passed the test. Any model in base contact with the removed model suffers a Str5 AP- hit.
   
Made in gb
Nasty Nob






Why don't Xeno Hunters get preferred enemy against Tyranids?

   
Made in us
Nigel Stillman





Austin, TX

Perfect Organism wrote:
Why don't Xeno Hunters get preferred enemy against Tyranids?


I knew there was one I forgot. Adding that now. Thanks!

How does the unit seem, by the way? I thought they might be a bit good for only 50 points but considering they can't combine squads, they're a bit more fragile. I will up them to 55 points, especially considering they can get 2 specials and Xenos are becoming a lot more powerful nowadays.
   
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Lord of the Fleet






Halifornia, Nova Scotia

So, at first glance, nothing really jumps out at me as being bizarrely broken, but then again, the IG dex only needs some minor internal re-balancing. Some interesting new options, but I won't quite get a proper handle until I start trying to break the codex.

Unfortunately, I've been busy lately, so it might take a few days to hammer out some lists to see what's broken and what isn't.

Also, I still think the Vendetta is a touch too strong as its still pretty much the best option in the FA slot. I'll elaborate my point later, but sufficient to say it needs one of its strengths either greatly reduced or eliminated; its durability, transport capacity, reliable firepower, and cheapness. At 155pts, its still a touch too good, especially stacked against the sentinels and hellhounds.

Speaking of which, hellhounds should be HP 3, but the entry has it at 2.

Anyways, looks good so far, but I'll be back to discuss the vendetta issue and more. You have a good start with the vendetta, but I think it needs a bit more of a boop from the nerf-hammer.

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 Blacksails wrote:
So, at first glance, nothing really jumps out at me as being bizarrely broken, but then again, the IG dex only needs some minor internal re-balancing. Some interesting new options, but I won't quite get a proper handle until I start trying to break the codex.

Unfortunately, I've been busy lately, so it might take a few days to hammer out some lists to see what's broken and what isn't.

Also, I still think the Vendetta is a touch too strong as its still pretty much the best option in the FA slot. I'll elaborate my point later, but sufficient to say it needs one of its strengths either greatly reduced or eliminated; its durability, transport capacity, reliable firepower, and cheapness. At 155pts, its still a touch too good, especially stacked against the sentinels and hellhounds.

Speaking of which, hellhounds should be HP 3, but the entry has it at 2.

Anyways, looks good so far, but I'll be back to discuss the vendetta issue and more. You have a good start with the vendetta, but I think it needs a bit more of a boop from the nerf-hammer.

Honestly, the Vendetta isn't that bad. 3 twin- linked lascannons? Five storm troopers with 3 meltaguns and rerollable deepstrikes is far cheaper and more efficient, and in a less useful slot anyway. AV 12? IG can easily bring up lots of AV 12 (chimeras and chimera chassis vehicles) and AV 14 (Russes). Honestly, the only thing that brings it into above average territory is that it is a flyer that can drop off troops without stopping, which isn't that great when you consider its guns have a 48" range, nor is it that special when most flyers that carry troops can drop them off mid flight.

Out of the FA slot I would say that Valks are crap, now, and in this codex. They have the potential to be good, but they are simply too weak to be of use for anything besides a transport. Even if the Vendetta cost 180 points it would still be the better choice because the Valk only get a muli-laser and some weak missiles or rockets. The Valk needs a pretty big overhaul to actually fill a niche beyond being an expensive flyer transport.
   
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Halifornia, Nova Scotia

Which is why the vendetta is still a tad too strong.

The vendetta has a few problems with balance.

The first being its force org slot. The IG dex as it currently is, and to a slightly lesser extent in this one, might as well only have the vendetta for anything remotely competitive. Its still very cost effective, brings great utility and is quite durable, as AV12 flyers are renowned to be. Now, compare the firepower available in the force org slot for a similar points cost and you start to realize the Vendetta outclasses them in the tank hunting role for its cost. Sure, the Hellhound and Banewolf are better anti-infantry, but anti-infantry is available quite readily in nearly every other slot.

The second problem is its role in the codex at large. The vendetta serves two primary purposes in its offensive capabilities; to kill tanks, and to kill flyers. Its still one of the best anti-flyer platforms available, especially factoring all the other new fliers. Three twin-linked lascannons is nothing to sneeze at, and AV12 plus HP3 leaves the Crimson Hunter and Stormtalon crying in the corner. As an anti-tank unit, its still one of the more reliable platforms available, and makes it all the more appealing when the first point is factored in.

The third problem is its general utility and synergy with itself. Being a transport means its incredibly useful to motor troops around the table and drop them off late game for objectives. Now consider that's it an AV12 flyer with three hull points, and its the third more durable flyer currently in the standard codices. Then again, I don't think anyone's claiming the stormraven is overpowered, so really only the Hellturkey stands up to it in general utility and durability. Finally, the AV12 and good HP means it will stand a reasonable chance of not dying to interceptor fire when it shows up. Add in an astropath and you have a unit that will show up fairly reliably, last long enough to deal some damage, and return late game to drop troops off on objectives.

All for 130 (155) points.

Now, on to the current codex and the vendetta. The points hike is well deserved, but I feel it still fails to address the actual problems with the Vendetta as a unit. The removal of squadrons helps a little, considering the squadron rules are a little friendlier, but three vendettas in a 1500-1850 game is still a lot of cheap firepower. The loss of grav chutes helps a little as well, but the transport capacity still means it can just hover at the end of the game and reliably drop off those troops after its done its damage.

As much I would LOVE for the vendetta to be retconned as a vulture platform and have the transport capacity removed entirely, I'll have to go with something else.

I'm a very big proponent of making the Valk/Vulture platform into an AV11/11/10 vehicle. My reasoning is that more and more flyers are being released as AV10/11, and the Vendetta/Valk first began life as AV11. This helps distinguish the truly durable flyers, from the gunships, from the fighters/interceptors. An AV11 valk/vendetta is still suitably durable for a flyer (more HP than a stormtalon), but certainly makes you think about whether or not to take it over a hellhound. As it stands, the Valk/Vendetta are simply more durable in every way than the hellhound, especially considering nearly every weapon can hit a hellhound, but only a small percentage can hurt the flyers.

My ideal vendetta chassis, to promote balance within the FA slot and especially among transport and anti-tank choices throughout the codex, would be AV11/11/10 150pts flyer. Give it strafing run to simulate its ground attack role, and you have a particularly reliable and lethal tank hunter and flyer killer, while retaining a respectable amount of durability, and promoting choice in the FA slot; do you want a fast, slightly weaker anti-tank/anti-flyer and transport all in one for a little more points, or go cheap and stock up on hellhound chassis to saturate your ground force more?

Basically, my goal is to turn the Vendetta into an actual decision, rather than a necessity for competitiveness. This does that, and honestly, most people will obviously reject it out of hand, but I urge you to truly think about it. Don't rage because I want to nerf it; all that does is prove its currently a no-brainer best in class unit, and my changes would make it competitive, but give other units a chance too.

Also also, stack up an AV11/11/10 150pts flyer with three twin-linked lascannons against any other fighter and compare average durability, firepower, and cost, and you'll find the vendetta still compares incredibly well.

Stormraven is too expensive for too little dakka. That and it competes in the beyong crowded Heavy slot.
Stormtalon puts out more shots, but at significantly less S and worse AP. Also has less HP, and cost similar when equipped with skyhammers. It does have the turret which helps.
Hellturkey. Well, Hellturkey is kind of broken, so its not a truly fair comparison, but what the turkey has in anti-infantry power, the Vendetta makes up in raw anti-tank/flyer and transport utility. All for cheaper too! Though the turkey is more durable.
The DA flyers are largely a joke anyways.
The Dakkajet is alright, but again, better dakka on the 'Detta, with transport ability, and more durability for a similar price.
The Tau flyers might as well not exist.
The Crimson Hunter is arguably a better anti-tank unit, but lacks the tranport ability and durability. And its more expensive.

So vote for change. Shake it up a bit. Give the other units a chance. Boop that 'Detta with nerf bat, and bring it back to its roots. A 150pts AV11 Valk/Vendetta is a choice for a better codex, for a better future, for a better humanity!

Alright, maybe the last line was a little much, but you get the idea.

Thoughts, criticism, rebuttals. I'm 1000% open to a proper discussion on the matter.

Holy hell wall of text.

*EDIT* This doesn't address the issue between the valk and the vendetta. Just the Vendetta mostly, and the chassis as a whole.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/03 01:38:57


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The ability to bring inquisitors is really cool, I really think you're doing a great job with this. Btw i love the way you speak and your enthusiasm keep it up!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/03 02:00:24


 
   
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Honestly the only reason I take vendettas is to carry troops is because the valkyrie is crap. Woohoo I spend 100 points and get a vehicle with better side armour than a chimera, similar weapons, and bwing a flyer, and honestly I don't think side AV 12 and being a flyer warrants a 45 point cost increase, especially when pretty much every other choice in the slot is better than it as far as firepower goes. For around 100 points you can get 3 multi-lasers on sentinels, which are more durable than the valkyrie and have three times the firepower, or you can take a hellhound or bane wolf for a bit more and either murder light infantry in cover from a safe distance, or murder MEQs up close, even rough riders are better, being able to land a good number of high strength hits on MEQs at I 5.

Besides flyers aren't even that bad, there are three flyers in the game that are particularly notable, and only the heldrake can really be claimed to be broken instead of good. At its current cost (155 points) the Vendetta is nice, it isn't too cheap like it was before, nor is it too expensive (seriously, there are a million better things you can take for 180 points than a vendetta). Now, I am not saying making it a dedicated gunship would be a bad move, I would love to give it an autocannon on its nose and a cluster of HK missiles on its wings or something to make it like an AH-64, but if you make it a gunship without any transport capacity, give the valkyrie something to make it worth taking, maybe give it more missiles, or more options or something, because making the Vendetta the tank killer and the Valkyrie the infantry killer was a good idea, it was just very poorly executed. Rocket pods are okay, but not for the price they come at, multi-lasers are crap against guardsmen, the only thing it is really good against is Orks sitting in the open.
   
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I'm a little confused by your post to be honest.

I'm trying to focus on the Vendetta for the most part (the chassis by extension), and touch on the Valk later.

I totally agree with you the valk needs something better.

Basically, turning the valk into a transport/anit-infantry is a good direction.

But I think making them both AV11 puts them in a reasonable line with other flyers.

An AV11 valk with multilaser and rocket pods standard for 100pts would be in the vicinity of reasonable.

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Austin, TX

francieum wrote:The ability to bring inquisitors is really cool, I really think you're doing a great job with this. Btw i love the way you speak and your enthusiasm keep it up!


Hi Francieum, thanks for the compliments; they really encourage me to keep going! I will be adding in some more vaguely "Inquisitorial", "Priest-hood", and "Ad-mech" units to the codex to enhance the aspect that the Imperial Guard are a true melting pot.


Buttons wrote:Honestly the only reason I take vendettas is to carry troops is because the valkyrie is crap. Woohoo I spend 100 points and get a vehicle with better side armour than a chimera, similar weapons, and bwing a flyer, and honestly I don't think side AV 12 and being a flyer warrants a 45 point cost increase, especially when pretty much every other choice in the slot is better than it as far as firepower goes. For around 100 points you can get 3 multi-lasers on sentinels, which are more durable than the valkyrie and have three times the firepower, or you can take a hellhound or bane wolf for a bit more and either murder light infantry in cover from a safe distance, or murder MEQs up close, even rough riders are better, being able to land a good number of high strength hits on MEQs at I 5.

Thank you for your comments regarding the Valkyrie; in retrospect I do agree that I really seem to have left the Valkyrie out in the cold when I have been changing up all of the other fast attack options to make them more worth their points in relation to the 5th edition codex.


Besides flyers aren't even that bad, there are three flyers in the game that are particularly notable, and only the heldrake can really be claimed to be broken instead of good. At its current cost (155 points) the Vendetta is nice, it isn't too cheap like it was before, nor is it too expensive (seriously, there are a million better things you can take for 180 points than a vendetta). Now, I am not saying making it a dedicated gunship would be a bad move, I would love to give it an autocannon on its nose and a cluster of HK missiles on its wings or something to make it like an AH-64, but if you make it a gunship without any transport capacity, give the valkyrie something to make it worth taking, maybe give it more missiles, or more options or something, because making the Vendetta the tank killer and the Valkyrie the infantry killer was a good idea, it was just very poorly executed. Rocket pods are okay, but not for the price they come at, multi-lasers are crap against guardsmen, the only thing it is really good against is Orks sitting in the open.


Nose autocannon, Hunter-Killer clusters...both of those are definitely going in as options. I really like those ideas and those options will make the Valkyrie cooler and the infantry-killer that it should have been. I will also be editing the price of the rocket pods. The multi-laser isn't great but it comes stock.


Blacksails wrote:I'm a little confused by your post to be honest.

I'm trying to focus on the Vendetta for the most part (the chassis by extension), and touch on the Valk later.

I totally agree with you the valk needs something better.

Basically, turning the valk into a transport/anit-infantry is a good direction.

But I think making them both AV11 puts them in a reasonable line with other flyers.

An AV11 valk with multilaser and rocket pods standard for 100pts would be in the vicinity of reasonable.


Okay, so I know you want to roll with the AV11 valk.

Blacksails, how do you feel about the AV11/11/10 Vendetta and Valk with Strafing Fire? The Vendetta would become 150 (as you had mentioned before), and then I would drop the Valkyrie down to around 90 points and make its options cheaper.

Regarding HK Missile Clusters, I wonder if we could go for something like the Sisters of Battle vehicle where it fires D6 rockets/turn.

Since there'd be two missile clusters, I'd make it fire D3 per (or perhaps have it be D6 and twin-linked to represent firing from both)

I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this.
------------------------------------------------------

In other news, I've been playing with adding a "Traitor" or "Heretic" trait. Alternatively, it would be a supplement to this book due to the level of complexity it would bring. For example,
Units that would not be allowed: Lord Commissar, Commissar, no special characters
In return, gain the following: Chaos Spawn, Chaos Space Marine Aspiring Champion. Inquisitor loses his "inquisitorial business" special rule and may take a Daemonblade.
--------------------------------

Anyway, @ Blacksails, feel free to break it as much as you want! Someone on another site suggested doing the "Ties to the Mechanicum" trait and with the Honorifica Imperialis, making D3 Leman Russ squadrons scoring, so that you have IWND 6+ Leman Russes. (Note I said units on purpose so that you could have a pseudo-Armored Battlegroup, but I may change it to D3 Infantry or Walker units if it proves to be too OP)

Finally, do you feel that in relation to the rest of the fast attack, the Vendetta is still too good? I figured that the changes made everything else significantly more viable.

--------------
:edit:
Last but not least!

I have also been considering adding a generic "Tank Commander" model. He would be WS3 BS4 S3 T3 W2 I3 A2 LD8 and would be an HQ choice. He could be used to upgrade one Leman russ in the army and when you take him, Leman Russes become troops choices and infantry units not in transports would become fast attack.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/10/03 20:14:32


 
   
Made in ca
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Halifornia, Nova Scotia

Vladsimpaler wrote:

Blacksails, how do you feel about the AV11/11/10 Vendetta and Valk with Strafing Fire?


Blacksails wrote:

My ideal vendetta chassis, to promote balance within the FA slot and especially among transport and anti-tank choices throughout the codex, would be AV11/11/10 150pts flyer. Give it strafing run...


Hahaha, I dunno, you ask me!

Yeah, I always thought that an updated vendetta would get strafing run anyways, seeing as its literally a textbook definition of a ground attack gunship. I hope I explained myself reasonably well. Don't just accept my argument to appease me or anything, I hope you genuinely either believe it should be somewhere in the area of what I suggested, or offer some kind of alternative or middle ground.

I'll try and have some lists done for this weekend, generally in the 1500-1850 window where I find balance to be best in this game.

As for the Valk, I'd give it a default loadout of Mulit-laser and Missile Pods for 100-110pts, which makes it a reasonable anti-infantry flyer with better transport ability and for cheap. Then give it some other options, like the missiles that ignore cover or something. I'll organize my thoughts later when I write the list, but I think the Valk should be geared for an anti-infantry role with a primary emphasis on getting troops around via grav chutes.

*EDIT* Oh man, you know what this codex is missing!?

...

Wait for it...

...

Chimeras!

I just noticed that there's no entry for them anywhere. I keep being told I can take them, but they're nowhere to be found. Such a tease...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/04 02:02:34


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