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Hi All

I am slowing building a CSM army. I was thinking that once it is done, I might pick up the SM codex and use my CSM with it from time to time.

If I was to do this in a game with you, would you object?

I would obviously try to make things as WYSIWYG as possible.

I'm sure you wouldn't try to take that to a tourny, but I'd have zero butthurt feels about you playing it against me on any given weekday.

why would you? CSM > SM



however, if you worked hard to keep it WYSIWYG then i wouldn't see a problem. Just a bit weird.

As long as you tell me which codec you are using pregame and don't pull tricks like "your anti-SM rules don't apply to me because of my csm figures although I'm running sm codec" then go ahead.

 Goat wrote:
I'm sure you wouldn't try to take that to a tourny, but I'd have zero butthurt feels about you playing it against me on any given weekday.

Why not? If its 100% WYSIWYG, does it matter what colour they are or if they have spikes?

Besides, if you run a recent traitor chapter, like an Astral Claws immediately post Badab, C:SM is a better fit anyways.

Power armour is power armour. If its WYSIWYG, it'll be fine at any level of play.

I wouldnt be too fussed personally, I myself am running World Eaters on the SM dex

I was just thinking about this. GW has been pushing C:CSMs as a mostly traitor idea, but all of the C:CSM weapons and equipment are preherasy based. Really C:SMs makes so much more sense for a pirate or traitor chapter. I never understood why traitor marines just leave all their gear on the last planet they were on and start useing what all the old guys in the warp are useing. But this is a old argument.

Franz_Schubert wrote:
why would you? CSM > SM

CSM have to depends on Heldrakes and well Heldrakes to have much of a chance. I would rather play C:SM for a balanced codex.

People use a variety of codex anyway so go ahead, just remember to inform your opponent and chaos up your SM-limited models like centurions and the like.

 rohansoldier wrote:

If I was to do this in a game with you, would you object?

i'm sure any casual gamer would be happy to face such a proxy

Just talked to a friend who, after falling for 40k via the Black Library novels, is now ready to start collecting his first army.

He'll be collecting Night Lords but won't be using Codex: Chaos Space Marines, as he wants to keep them as close to their portrayal in the Dembski-Bowden novels as possible - that means Drop Pods and real Dreadnoughts, not crazed Helbrutes. So he'll be using the vanilla marine 'dex, running them as Raven Guard or maybe Crimson Fists.

I still believe that certain flavors of chaos should better stick to their codex... but in this case, he's doing it mostly for fluff and looks, so I'll be happy to play against him once he's done.

As for your chaosies, I'd say give it a go. It's not like Iron Warriors are going to change a lot with the codex swap - Land Raiders and Vindicators will still be there, and you can always take allied guard as cultists. On the plus side, despite the CSM ability to make 20-man squads of power armored dudes, combat-squad-able tac marines with ATSKNF are almost always better, and chapter tactics provide a nice boost (Iron Hands mayhaps?). On the other side, you'll be missing Obliterators (superior to Centurions IMHO), switching a beast of a HQ like the Khornate Juggerlord for a slew of somewhat overpriced, rather meh-worthy commanders, and losing Heldrakes.

However, something in those heavy siege drill Centurions screams "Iron Within, Iron Without" to me... so If you're willing to go the Vanilla Marine route with your IWs, don't think I would raise any objections

I would have no problem with that. In fact I would allow my opponent to use whatever marine codex (be it chaos, vanilla, blood, etc. ) to represent their marine army as long as it is WYSIWG and in good taste i.e. not changing codexes because I have a particular army, telling me exactly what codex you will be using, etc.

Some time ago some random guy ask the same question but for using IG models as CSM.

Looks that you have a better sense.

Why should marine players have the edge over everyone else and be able to hope between codex , while other people are stuck with one. If I can't use my IG as tau , the a csm player shouldn't be able to use his army for a marine codex .

Makumba wrote:
Why should marine players have the edge over everyone else and be able to hope between codex , while other people are stuck with one. If I can't use my IG as tau , the a csm player shouldn't be able to use his army for a marine codex .

This is a poor attitude.

All marine codices are practically the same. There are generally only a handful of genuinely different/unique units between any two MEQ codices, so an intelligent player can magnetize/convert to represent nearly every codex with relative ease. This saves money, allows for greater creativity, and lets the marine player mix it up a little more.

You also have the ability to do this. You just have to start a MEQ army.

I hope you honestly and truly don't believe marine players have to have red marine to play Codex: Red Marines, or grey marines to player Codex: Grey Marines. Why do you care that his non-spikey marines are chaos, but recently turned traitor. Or that his spikey marine are loyalist but have a genetic malfunction and are hunted down by the Imperium but continue to fight in the name of the Emperor.

Power armour is power armour and a bolter will always be a bolter. The colour doesn't matter as long as its WYSIWYG.

Because a guardsman has none of the gear a fire warrior does. Kinda not even the same race. A marine with a bolter is the same as a marine with a spikey bolter. I'll echo what others have said. Wysiwyg is the key here. If everything is modeled correctly I actually think it'd be pretty cool! Chaos centurions!

Edit: ninja'd

I'd be perfectly fine as long as it was WYSIWYG, and you tell me up front what codex it is.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 korghan wrote:
Because a guardsman has none of the gear a fire warrior does. Kinda not even the same race. A marine with a bolter is the same as a marine with a spikey bolter. I'll echo what others have said. Wysiwyg is the key here. If everything is modeled correctly I actually think it'd be pretty cool! Chaos centurions!

Edit: ninja'd

When i played 40k back years ago before getting out, and subsequently getting back in, i had a "fire warrior" squad of Gue'Vasa imperial guard i converted with pulse rifles. I used FW rules for them (though i had taros campaign rules for gue'vasa, i figured it'd just be easier). Everyone loved 'em.

So i think it'd be perfectly fine to use guard as fire warriors (for example) as long as they were modeled correctly.

I wouldn't mind at all. We are after all here to have fun with plastic toy soldiers.

That said, I would ask why just out of curiosity. Just be aware of some people will think of you as a power gamer though.

Word Bearers would thrive as Black Templars, and those cultist models would work in Crusader Squads. A Grimaldus equivalent would be a much better Dark Apostle.

The easiest legion to convert would be the Iron Warriors. They're the least mutated and don't rely on sorcery. They make perfect Iron Hands.

you payed for your plastic toy soldiers, you painted them, you payed way to much for the book to play your army.
play what makes you happy as long as you are wysiwyg who cares.
as far as using ig for tau i would let that player use them as fire warriors as long as you are actively building your real tau force.
its a game if i cant spend my money and have fun ill spend my money else ware.

 Rpant wrote:
you payed for your plastic toy soldiers, you painted them, you payed way to much for the book to play your army.
play what makes you happy as long as you are wysiwyg who cares.
as far as using ig for tau i would let that player use them as fire warriors as long as you are actively building your real tau force.
its a game if i cant spend my money and have fun ill spend my money else ware.

Who cares if it's WYSIWYG. So much stuff in 40K, is not represented with WYSIWYG, so what does it really matter? I mean Psychic powers are not WYSIWYG and people play perfectly fine without it. So if an army is not WYSIWYG is not a big deal other.

So I say who cares. WYSIWYG or no WYSIWYG, who cares.

It is a counts as codex.....wysiwyg is all that matters then.

 namiel wrote:
It is a counts as codex.....wysiwyg is all that matters then.

Agreed. I'd much rather go against a "wrong colored" force than one where power fists are really thunder hammers and lasguns are bolters. The second it's work for me to remember what's what, I'm not interested (like telling me all sarges have powerfists even though they look like chainswords).

Franz_Schubert wrote:
why would you? CSM > SM

Mono-build, lack of good units, poor variety, no legions or personality, lack of competitive units apart from the Heldrake and Nurgle marked troops.

As long as you made it clear what codex are you playing and what unit is what I'd be fine with it.

Im thinking of running CSM using Black Templars. Crusader Squads would make a cool marine/cultist mix unit

I've done it a bunch. I play alpha legion & we're known for infiltration which includes impersonating other legions! At least that's what I tell myself.

Honestly as long as it's clear what is what and it's pretty reasonably so (I wouldn't accept guard counts as necrons) I wouldn't care even in a tournament. This hobby is expensive enough as is & GW did this to themselves IMO what with half the playable armies basically being the same models.

I've been thinking about this again recently as well. I have all these sweet guys with bolters and spikes.. Problem is the spikey codex is far too limited on a competitive level.

Hellblade/talons would make perfect Stormravens/talons. Stick a whfb Hellcannon on a circle and minus the Dwarves.. Perfect TFC. Marines = Marines. Oblits are Centurions. On and on.

Never let the fact that your marines look slightly different stop you from playing another marine codex.

I saw someone use Chaos Termies and a Lord as Paladins and Draigo.

Not only do I accept the idea, I love it. Using C.SM might actually get me to play chaos again.