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Is anyone using a particular weapons loadout for the Stormtalon? Is it best to hit harder targets such as armor?

Stormraven, I am just starting to look into a weapons loadout for a new Stormraven kit, and I'm curious to know how you guys are arming them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I armed up the Stormtalon w/ the Skyhammer missiles.

I like using the skyhammer missiles myself. Its more dakka and it gives more "focus" to the vehicle. By that I mean that the talon has a strict range of weapon str and AP and that way you can use it on just about everything barring armor 14. This makes it pretty darn versatile, and the extra shots means you will be auto annihilating hordes better than blast weapons (potential 7 hits over 2 small blasts at low str and 4 hits, I think this makes your average hits more likely). If you are lacking anti tank lascannons arent bad but you are really limiting your shots from a flyer, which may or may not be on the field for long depending on the str of your opponents anti air or if they fly off. Additionally, that turret makes up for any lack of dedicated anti armor from a Lascannon because its very easy to hit rear armor 10 with it if you overshoot enemy lines (plus its given me one than one last ditch effort as i was flying off the table)

 generalchaos34 wrote:
I like using the skyhammer missiles myself. Its more dakka and it gives more "focus" to the vehicle. By that I mean that the talon has a strict range of weapon str and AP and that way you can use it on just about everything barring armor 14. This makes it pretty darn versatile, and the extra shots means you will be auto annihilating hordes better than blast weapons (potential 7 hits over 2 small blasts at low str and 4 hits, I think this makes your average hits more likely). If you are lacking anti tank lascannons arent bad but you are really limiting your shots from a flyer, which may or may not be on the field for long depending on the str of your opponents anti air or if they fly off. Additionally, that turret makes up for any lack of dedicated anti armor from a Lascannon because its very easy to hit rear armor 10 with it if you overshoot enemy lines (plus its given me one than one last ditch effort as i was flying off the table)

Ok, great news on that choice, thanks for that bit of advice!

 Kelly502 wrote:


Stormraven, I am just starting to look into a weapons loadout for a new Stormraven kit, and I'm curious to know how you guys are arming them.

Are the Hurricane Bolters worth it?
Seem like a fairly expensive upgrade on an already expensive unit that doesn't match up well with the rest of the weapons (geared to kill enemy tanks, flyers and MCs).

If you give it the assault cannon, it works pretty well.

On the Stormraven, I like the TL-Assault Cannon, Typhoon ML, and the missiles.

TL-MM is good too, if you like to get up close and personal.

Either set up will can open and deal with MCs pretty nicely. I like the Typhoons because they give me solid anti-air from range, two S8 shots have a good chance of shearing off a hull point or two off opposing flyers. The MM is good, but you need to be very close, which makes me antsy.

I wouldn't spring for the hurricane bolters myself, but I can understand why someone would. TL-AC, TL-HB, and 2x3 TL-bolters is a great way to chew through infantry. Within rapid fire range, you're looking at 19 shots at BS with twin link.

I'm not very high on Stormtalons, they just feel too flimsy. They have good firepower, but I'm always worried someone is going to have an ADL or anti-air vehicle or something that can chew it up quick.

DogofWar1 wrote:
On the Stormraven, I like the TL-Assault Cannon, Typhoon ML, and the missiles.

TL-MM is good too, if you like to get up close and personal.

Either set up will can open and deal with MCs pretty nicely. I like the Typhoons because they give me solid anti-air from range, two S8 shots have a good chance of shearing off a hull point or two off opposing flyers. The MM is good, but you need to be very close, which makes me antsy.

I wouldn't spring for the hurricane bolters myself, but I can understand why someone would. TL-AC, TL-HB, and 2x3 TL-bolters is a great way to chew through infantry. Within rapid fire range, you're looking at 19 shots at BS with twin link.

I'm not very high on Stormtalons, they just feel too flimsy. They have good firepower, but I'm always worried someone is going to have an ADL or anti-air vehicle or something that can chew it up quick.

Ok, maybe fielding more than one ST would be good if they get taken out quickly. I'm ready to get these flyers done so I can play them, can't wait. Maybe arming the Stormraven with the HB's would be good for shooting infatnry as you drop off your troops to the objective. That's alot of shooting!

For stormraven I've always gone with AC and MM. Whether or not you take the Hurricane bolter depends on its role. If you want it to deal with both vehicles and infantry, take them. But if you're using it primarily for a transport and/or AA, leave them off and spend the 30pts elsewhere.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
For stormraven I've always gone with AC and MM. Whether or not you take the Hurricane bolter depends on its role. If you want it to deal with both vehicles and infantry, take them. But if you're using it primarily for a transport and/or AA, leave them off and spend the 30pts elsewhere.

Noted! Thank you!


.


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 minigun762 wrote:

 Kelly502 wrote:


Stormraven, I am just starting to look into a weapons loadout for a new Stormraven kit, and I'm curious to know how you guys are arming them.

Are the Hurricane Bolters worth it?
Seem like a fairly expensive upgrade on an already expensive unit that doesn't match up well with the rest of the weapons (geared to kill enemy tanks, flyers and MCs).

I was attempting to look up and compare weapon systems during my lunch break, while I cannot for the life of me locate the Hurricane Bolter Sponson rules!! Some help in locating them please.

Kelly502:
It's at the bottom of page 121.

 minigun762 wrote:
Kelly502:
It's at the bottom of page 121.

WOOT!! Thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That's a bit odd, or vague, I guess you just count up the Bolters on each sponson and go from there...

A single hurricane bolter is 3 twin linked bolters, so 2 sponsons would be 6 twin linked bolters.

I'm looking at doing my Raven up as AC and MM, and its Talon escort as AC and Skyhammer.

Lascannon and multi-melta.
If you're using it as a transport, you really want to be able to pop transports.
2 missile shots, lascannons and multi-melta does a pretty good job on the armor.

-Matt

The Raven's weapons are completely interchangeable, bar the Sponsons, so you doint need to glue them on.

I wouldnt take the hurricane outside of grey knights.

Then they are strength 5 and might be worth it, even then its pushing it as you could only fire one per turn(assault, MM, two missiles, and 1 hurricane, 4+ MS)

Plus I dont see a SR getting that many turns to shoot and might as well burn through those missiles.

 Leth wrote:
I wouldnt take the hurricane outside of grey knights.

Then they are strength 5 and might be worth it, even then its pushing it as you could only fire one per turn(assault, MM, two missiles, and 1 hurricane, 4+ MS)

Plus I dont see a SR getting that many turns to shoot and might as well burn through those missiles.

GK missiles are only Str4 blasts with a "Screw Psykers" rule. GK stormravens rarely fire their missiles unless the enemy has a psyker.

So GKs will usually be firing MM, Assault Cannon, and both Sponsons. Often with the MM going at a separate target.

So yeah, for Vanilla marines the Hurricane Bolters probably aren't worth it because you don't have Psybolts.



Stormtalons should only be run with Typhoon Missile launcher IMO. It pairs best with the Assault Cannon.

Skyhammer missiles are weaker overall while not having as much utility against infantry.


Lets compare Skyhammer and Typhoon against AV12.

Skyhammer: 3(2/3)(1/3) = .66667 glance/pens

Typhoon: 2(2/3)(1/3)=.66667 glance/pens

Identical, except the Typhoon has a higher base strength which means it has the ability to engage better armor more reliably.


Now against a Space marine target on the ground who has a 5+ cover save.

Skyhammer: 3(2/3)(5/6)(1/3)=.555556 unsaved wounds

Typhoon(Krak): 2(2/3)(5/6)(2/3)=.74 unsaved wounds

Typhoon(Frag, assuming 2 hits per blast): 4(.5)(1/3)=.6666 unsaved wounds


the Typhoon has greater killing power against ground targets as well. While also having ID capability. And even the Frag missiles do more damage to space marines than the Skyhammer does.

The range of the Skyhammer missiles isn't an advantage on a Flyer, who should never be having range problems. Only angle problems.

Storm Talon with Tyohoon for many of the reasons stated.

Storm Raven as a flying Land Raider Crusader(TL MM, TL Asscannon, and Hurricanes) because it can fire all 4 weapons while zooming and the hurricanes mesh with the asscannon while the asscannons mesh with the Multi melta(that can be shot at a tank while the cannon and bolters are shooting at troops).

 Grey Templar wrote:


Lets compare Skyhammer and Typhoon against AV12.
Skyhammer: 3(2/3)(1/3) = .66667 glance/pens
Typhoon: 2(2/3)(1/3)=.66667 glance/pens
Identical, except the Typhoon has a higher base strength which means it has the ability to engage better armor more reliably.


Now against a Space marine target on the ground who has a 5+ cover save.
Skyhammer: 3(2/3)(5/6)(1/3)=.555556 unsaved wounds
Typhoon(Krak): 2(2/3)(5/6)(2/3)=.74 unsaved wounds
Typhoon(Frag, assuming 2 hits per blast): 4(.5)(1/3)=.6666 unsaved wounds

the Typhoon has greater killing power against ground targets as well. While also having ID capability. And even the Frag missiles do more damage to space marines than the Skyhammer does.

The range of the Skyhammer missiles isn't an advantage on a Flyer, who should never be having range problems. Only angle problems.

That's a very good point. They are a lot more pricy, but they do come out a long way ahead.

 Grey Templar wrote:


GK missiles are only Str4 blasts with a "Screw Psykers" rule. GK stormravens rarely fire their missiles unless the enemy has a psyker.

So GKs will usually be firing MM, Assault Cannon, and both Sponsons. Often with the MM going at a separate target.

So yeah, for Vanilla marines the Hurricane Bolters probably aren't worth it because you don't have Psybolts.

If you're going with psybolts, you should keep the heavy bolter.
It's 3 S6 shots, 4 S7 rending shots, and 6/12 S5 shots. That gives you 13 to 19 decent strength shots, and a PotMS S4 missile.

-Matt

But you also want some melta in the list.

Psybolts are worth enough just for the Assault cannon and Hurricane bolters. Maybe on a Razorback the HB is worth keeping but not on a Stormraven.

I've been using TL MM, hurricane bolters and TL assault cannons lately.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I wouldnt take the hurricane outside of grey knights.

Then they are strength 5 and might be worth it, even then its pushing it as you could only fire one per turn(assault, MM, two missiles, and 1 hurricane, 4+ MS)

Plus I dont see a SR getting that many turns to shoot and might as well burn through those missiles.

GK missiles are only Str4 blasts with a "Screw Psykers" rule. GK stormravens rarely fire their missiles unless the enemy has a psyker.

So GKs will usually be firing MM, Assault Cannon, and both Sponsons. Often with the MM going at a separate target.

So yeah, for Vanilla marines the Hurricane Bolters probably aren't worth it because you don't have Psybolts.



Stormtalons should only be run with Typhoon Missile launcher IMO. It pairs best with the Assault Cannon.

Skyhammer missiles are weaker overall while not having as much utility against infantry.


Lets compare Skyhammer and Typhoon against AV12.

Skyhammer: 3(2/3)(1/3) = .66667 glance/pens

Typhoon: 2(2/3)(1/3)=.66667 glance/pens

Identical, except the Typhoon has a higher base strength which means it has the ability to engage better armor more reliably.


Now against a Space marine target on the ground who has a 5+ cover save.

Skyhammer: 3(2/3)(5/6)(1/3)=.555556 unsaved wounds

Typhoon(Krak): 2(2/3)(5/6)(2/3)=.74 unsaved wounds

Typhoon(Frag, assuming 2 hits per blast): 4(.5)(1/3)=.6666 unsaved wounds


the Typhoon has greater killing power against ground targets as well. While also having ID capability. And even the Frag missiles do more damage to space marines than the Skyhammer does.

The range of the Skyhammer missiles isn't an advantage on a Flyer, who should never be having range problems. Only angle problems.

There are not higher than AV12 fliers around (outside of FW) and that is what you want to use your SAtormtalons for. Against AV11 and 10 the skyhammer is better than the CML despite being quite a bit cheaper.

On my raven I use the typhoon launcher and lascannon turret. Excellent stand off range when you use hover mode to kind of "back up" after zooming onto the table and all weapons have 48" range and equal target selection qualities.

 Gideon999 wrote:
On my raven I use the typhoon launcher and lascannon turret. Excellent stand off range when you use hover mode to kind of "back up" after zooming onto the table and all weapons have 48" range and equal target selection qualities.

How's that worked so far?

I can see the advantage of that loadout but I would prefer to come forward for a turn or two with the melta and assault before dropping into hover to get rear armour shots and prevent it flying off the board. After all, 1 multi melta shot and 4 rending assault cannon shots (not counting missiles) will tend to do more damage against av 10 than 1 las and 2 krak will do against av12/13. Plus getting that rear armour bypasses things such as serpent and cron shields.

Just a small note, the Stormraven has the PotMS rule so you can fire 5 weapons while zooming

As GK, my best loadout has actually been TL PC, TL MM, and hurricane bolters. Fly in, fire everything except the MM at a squad I dislike then MM a tank. Maybe it's just my local group, but a twin-linked plasma cannon is really nice to have when low save models deepstrike. I've also had fun with the HB+AC+Hurricane combo, but I have psybolts. I use mine as a pure gunship, flyers are handled by other things or ignored.
The typhoon launcher really isn't as good a choice as the multi-melta, it's just too easy to get within 12" of a vehicle and POTMS means you always have the option to fire it. You can get missiles elsewhere, melta range is a bit tougher to come by.

tedurur wrote:
There are not higher than AV12 fliers around (outside of FW) and that is what you want to use your SAtormtalons for. Against AV11 and 10 the skyhammer is better than the CML despite being quite a bit cheaper.

The Higher AV statistics is vs ground targets; you know the ones you are BS5 vs.

In 3rd, the little buit of 4th I played in, and 5th I loved the LRC; it was my go-to "heavy tank" and anti-infantry monster.

In 6th all the Land Raiders are nothing more than up-gunned transports that should only be firing their 2 heaviest weapons.

The Storm Raven however can and should be what the LRC once was to me: the Sword of the emperor cutting out the heart of the enemy(its troops)

The Storm Talon Typhoon may be a bit more expensive than the Land speeder Typhoon(nearly double), but it brings a better back-up gun, Higher Armor, Flyer with Hover mode, and strafing run(2 BS5 Kraks are 16.666% better, each, than 2 BS4 ones).

Slightly off topic, but for someone beginning to Raise a chapter, would a Talon be a good addition to roughly 1000 points already, or is the money better off going into something else?