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"Sisters of battle are definitely in the works"

Sounds pretty definitive.

Ah, the long discussion of Sisters of Battle...

I would sell most of my digestive system in order to afford a whole range of Sisters of Battle plastics, especially as the quality of such plastics has skyrocketed in detail, and in my opinion they're reaching a level of proportion that's much more appealing than a lot of their older models.

The trouble, in my opinion, is that whenever Sisters of Battle comes up, many people look at it in the scope of... what information is out there, right now, specifically pertaining to the Sisters of Battle? The actual amount of information is dismally small, and questions about SoB are typically deflected or answered vaguely at best. I've been following the topic as well as anyone, so I'm aware of the molding issues and past rumors of seeing 'greens' and whatnot.

But let's take a broader perspective. What is Games Workshop doing as a whole with 40k? What are they trying to accomplish in the long run?

We're in 6th edition. If rumors hold, we'll have Tyranids, Imperial Guard, and Orks in due course, and probably one or two other Codexes before the end of the year. Let's see what's left to update, at that point...

Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Necron, Dark Eldar, Grey Knights, Sisters of Battle.

That's less than half! Holy crap, are we already almost halfway through 6th edition? It's pretty clear that GW intends to update everything they can to 6th edition before moving on to the next edition.

That said, they didn't update *everything* to 8th edition for Fantasy, and if rumors hold, they'll be leaving Skaven, Beastmen, and Wood Elves still to be updated... But let's head back to 40k.

The Sisters of Battle and Blood Angels getting digital updates, honestly, means very little. These are stopgap techniques to keep things relevant while the actual Codexes are worked on. Space Marines had their digital update relatively shortly before getting a full update to their Codex to 6th edition. Let's set the whole topic of digital updates aside.

What else is happening in GW? Well, Space Marines, GW's biggest cash cow, was just released. More Space Marines are sold than the entire line of Fantasy for GW. They're being followed by IG, Tyranids, and Orks, and none of those armies are 'niche'. This tells me, as a man educated in International Business, that GW is working on building up CASH. Of course it's every company's goal to make profit, but why do they make money? If they just made money, put it in their pockets and left for the day, there would be no more company to come back to. Companies instead put the cash they make into new projects and products so they can make *more* cash.

But putting cash into new projects and products is risky, and the riskier the project the less chance you have of getting cash back to cover the R&D. That's just a basic concept.

Back on track, GW released Space Marines, and is going to be releasing 3 other big armies, and then that's followed by a new edition of Fantasy, which will also generate a bundle of cash! Well, what are they going to spend all that cash on? Obviously for new molds for new things, but the codexes about to be updated already have lots of plastic models and not much in finecast or metal, so those aren't above and beyond the call for a significant investment...

See where I'm getting with this? GW needs more cash to invest in a whole army re-make before they can do that kind of a thing, and it seems like that's what they're building up to.

And even though Fantasy 9th edition may release in 2014 with a few armies left in the dust, that still means we have AT LEAST until 2015 before 40k 7th, and more likely all the way till 2016.

That means between now and 2016, GW only has 9 Codexes to update to 6th edition, and 3 of those armies (IG, Orks, Nids) are already spoken for through the first half of 2014. 6 armies between mid-2014 to mid-2016? That's only 3 armies per year. EASY. That leaves GW plenty of time to update the last books of Fantasy, release lots of supplements, and expand the games they have.

Now what is Sisters to GW right now? A way to unload excess metal stock. This digital update is an interesting ploy to do just that. Some hobbyists will jump on the idea of 6th edition sisters and help deplete those stocks, and once they're gone, that's less that GW has to worry about selling off as slag.

Long story short, I think GW is going to support Sisters of Battle. It may take until 2015 or 2016 for them to do it, but they're going to get the update they need.

drbored wrote:
AMAZING LOGIC

I am exalting that post, given the release schedule and how well the armies are selling, makes perfect sense.

drbored wrote:
*snip*.

I'm actually still following the rumors that Fantasy is a 2015 release. It just makes more sense in my mind is all.

As for 6th Edition the rumors are that GW wants all the armies in 6th and then move to a longer term expansions/supplement thing with eventual releases and rules for the books that eventually get rolled in the next time the book is updated.

And honestly I don't see GW slowing down on the release schedule. They ramped up both Fantasy and 40k releases this year. We've had a release of something every month, with both systems getting representation on a regular basis. I only see this continuing until they run out of books (and then cue expansions, more supplements and maybe a 6.5 release before we see 7th).

My money is still on Sisters in late 2014 with a Marine army in the same period. It's actually a simple way logic behind this:

1. It's still "unfilled" rumors wise (we've got Nids, Guard and Orks in the first half of 2014). It's basically the earliest we can expect them
2. May is the end of GW's fiscal year, so front loading Sisters into the June or later time frame gives them time to recoup losses if it doesn't make a profit
3. Marines are a cash cow so putting them in a period of risk is just a smart move

That said, you do know that GW has been running small casting batches on Sisters since the WD codex, if not sooner, right? Those white card direct-only blisters replaced the old blisters years ago, and they did that when they ran out of old stock. Plus this isn't resin or plastic, if they need to get rid of the Sisters they can melt them down and make metal IG out of them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually speaking of melting Sisters down, this is not a new discussion. /tg/ had a topic about this that actually lead to people having severe cases of the feels and buying more Sisters.

First the set-up (thanks to 1d4chan for saving this):

One fine day on /tg/, a thread was speculating about a leaked list of future releases, with such promises as the Tau Mako, the Space Marine Land Avenger, and the holy grail, plastic Sisters of Battle. Then, a Warehouse Manager Dude explained what that would mean for the pewter Sisters waiting in storage:
[Games Workshop] have a ton of metal stock they want to try and sell first. I promise you this is how it is going down.
> We have 20,000 units of Sisters! They aren't selling in $45+ boxes sir.
> Okay break it to blisters. People want to add odd and ends. Anyone who wants a sister metal army will already have it. So we will get rid of what stock we can to those who want odds and ends... release a new codex via WD to keep them playable(ish)
> What about plastic?
> Hold off on that until X year or Y asset movements. If it does not sell by X year, melt it and sell the metal off. What-ever can't be replaced by resin or plastic, add it to the 'collector's range.'
Yes, that means our metal sisters, unbought. Forever alone in the darkness of the warehouses...will one day be opened to face the furnace. Unsold. No enemy ever purged for the emperor.
Where do you think the metal grey knights went? Sold for a marginal profit in this metal economy.
I have no sources to say this is, for fact, what GW does. However I have 24 years experience in warehouse management for similar products (metal parts for various businesses. Engines, fixings, etc.) What we can't sell sits in the warehouse for X years. After X years is up, we usually sell it for scrap / send it off to be melted down for other uses.

That lead to the following story:

Deep within the bowls of near eternal darkness, the ten sisters of battle sat within plastic containment. The two stuck together in one pocket of plastic had been good friends for well over a decade now.
"Sister Maria-kun...when will we get to serve the Emperor?" she would ask at least once a week. Ready to hear the comfort from her superior.
"Nisa-chan...soon. Soon we will show them the Emperor's fury." Maria would always reply in a confident tone.
This dance of emotional support spun on for years... one day, though. One day everything shifted. Jostled from sleep, Sister Nisa exclaimed, "Maria! Maria! We're moving! We're going to get to serve the Emperor!"
"Yes Sister Nisa!" replied Maria with excitement.
Soon, light filled their world. The dim blue gray of overhanging light-tubes. The plastic was opened, and the sisters were dumped with their squad into a massive bucket filled with other sisters.
"Maria! Where are you?!" Nisa yelled "Here here, over here!" Maria jostled her way over the other sisters to Nisa, "Surely this will be the largest holy war the Sororitas has ever seen or will see!"
Thousands of Sisters of battle yelled praises to the Emperor as they were dumped into a lead bowl. "A transport?" questioned Maria, as the cold metal touched her. The world moved again, and orange light filled the air and their bucket was placed into an enclosure.
"Its hot Sister Maria-kun! Its hot!" exclaimed Nisa in panic.
"Don't worry Sister Nisa-chan. We will serve the Emperor. We are protected!" she said as pewter droplets began to form on the surface of her armor and roll off into the container. "The Emperor protects!"
That was the last word from the sister as her face boiled away and pooled into the bottom of the container... in a matter of minutes the super heated oven had turned all the Sisters into a pewter bar. Ready to be melted into other forms or separated for its various metals.

And then someone commented on them being able to be recast as Draigo. Looks like they can now become Creed instead.

ClockworkZion wrote:

drbored wrote:
*snip*.

Deep within the bowls of near eternal darkness, the ten sisters of battle sat within plastic containment. The two stuck together in one pocket of plastic had been good friends for well over a decade now.
"Sister Maria-kun...when will we get to serve the Emperor?" she would ask at least once a week. Ready to hear the comfort from her superior.
"Nisa-chan...soon. Soon we will show them the Emperor's fury." Maria would always reply in a confident tone.
This dance of emotional support spun on for years... one day, though. One day everything shifted. Jostled from sleep, Sister Nisa exclaimed, "Maria! Maria! We're moving! We're going to get to serve the Emperor!"
"Yes Sister Nisa!" replied Maria with excitement.
Soon, light filled their world. The dim blue gray of overhanging light-tubes. The plastic was opened, and the sisters were dumped with their squad into a massive bucket filled with other sisters.
"Maria! Where are you?!" Nisa yelled "Here here, over here!" Maria jostled her way over the other sisters to Nisa, "Surely this will be the largest holy war the Sororitas has ever seen or will see!"
Thousands of Sisters of battle yelled praises to the Emperor as they were dumped into a lead bowl. "A transport?" questioned Maria, as the cold metal touched her. The world moved again, and orange light filled the air and their bucket was placed into an enclosure.
"Its hot Sister Maria-kun! Its hot!" exclaimed Nisa in panic.
"Don't worry Sister Nisa-chan. We will serve the Emperor. We are protected!" she said as pewter droplets began to form on the surface of her armor and roll off into the container. "The Emperor protects!"
That was the last word from the sister as her face boiled away and pooled into the bottom of the container... in a matter of minutes the super heated oven had turned all the Sisters into a pewter bar. Ready to be melted into other forms or separated for its various metals.

And then someone commented on them being able to be recast as Draigo. Looks like they can now become Creed instead.

Oh man right in the feels

I think Black Templars being incorporated into the Space Marine codex is generally good sign for SoB. The two armies tread on similar concepts in portraying some of the more extreme religious elements of the Imperium. Black Templars being simply a part of the Marine codex means GW can expand those concepts solely within the SoB rather than splitting similar efforts halfway with both.

I'm of the opinion that GWs approach is similar to the Dark Eldar... they'll get a release when they can do them justice.

Some in this thread have reiterated cost-benefit comparison of SoB and Space Marines... While SoB should obviously be a big part of their own codex, I think the real goal of GWs effort should be to make their codex so different that they can't be as easily compared to marines. As it is a lot of their units are simply the SoB version of some other imperial unit, when to stand on their own they need units that play to their concept. An example of what I mean is that SoB's basic troop squad necessitates having more than 10 models and so they really should have something more than a rhino to accommodate that... Or else they're an army just using left overs.

At present there is also a lack of deployment and movement diversity, which is something that needs to be addressed. It will also be interesting to see what GW does to update SoB, incorporating the additions of flyers and anti-aircraft that have now become so prevalent to the game.

Is there seriously another Fantasy on the way?! I thought the most recent one had only just come out!

 Pacific wrote:
Is there seriously another Fantasy on the way?! I thought the most recent one had only just come out!

Rumors (some of which might be pure speculation) are mixed on if it's 2014 or 2015 but apparently so. 8th ed has a few years on it now.

I thought that they were pretty sure on 2015 for 9th edition WHFB?

MrFlutterPie wrote:

drbored wrote:

Deep within the bowls of near eternal darkness, the ten sisters of battle sat within plastic containment. The two stuck together in one pocket of plastic had been good friends for well over a decade now.
"Sister Maria-kun...when will we get to serve the Emperor?" she would ask at least once a week. Ready to hear the comfort from her superior.
"Nisa-chan...soon. Soon we will show them the Emperor's fury." Maria would always reply in a confident tone.
This dance of emotional support spun on for years... one day, though. One day everything shifted. Jostled from sleep, Sister Nisa exclaimed, "Maria! Maria! We're moving! We're going to get to serve the Emperor!"
"Yes Sister Nisa!" replied Maria with excitement.
Soon, light filled their world. The dim blue gray of overhanging light-tubes. The plastic was opened, and the sisters were dumped with their squad into a massive bucket filled with other sisters.
"Maria! Where are you?!" Nisa yelled "Here here, over here!" Maria jostled her way over the other sisters to Nisa, "Surely this will be the largest holy war the Sororitas has ever seen or will see!"
Thousands of Sisters of battle yelled praises to the Emperor as they were dumped into a lead bowl. "A transport?" questioned Maria, as the cold metal touched her. The world moved again, and orange light filled the air and their bucket was placed into an enclosure.
"Its hot Sister Maria-kun! Its hot!" exclaimed Nisa in panic.
"Don't worry Sister Nisa-chan. We will serve the Emperor. We are protected!" she said as pewter droplets began to form on the surface of her armor and roll off into the container. "The Emperor protects!"
That was the last word from the sister as her face boiled away and pooled into the bottom of the container... in a matter of minutes the super heated oven had turned all the Sisters into a pewter bar. Ready to be melted into other forms or separated for its various metals.

And then someone commented on them being able to be recast as Draigo. Looks like they can now become Creed instead.

Oh man right in the feels

I ... I just got something in my eye, 's all.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
I thought that they were pretty sure on 2015 for 9th edition WHFB?

Some people are claiming 2014 though.

They fixed the problems with making plastic Sisters? Dang, now they'll have to come up with a whole new excuse. The last one lasted a good decade, but it had put up a valiant fight. Let's see...maybe, "We want to do the new plastic Sisters of Battle, but we want to do them justice and get it right, so we're looking for just the right design team to work on them." That should buy them another five years or so.

ClockworkZion wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
I thought that they were pretty sure on 2015 for 9th edition WHFB?

Some people are claiming 2014 though.

IIRC it was hastings giving the 2015 date. I'd say the people giving the 2014 date are people using historic precedent to divine rumors.

I tweeted @voxcaster (e.g. GW), " A spiritu dominatus, Domine, libra nos." as a thanks to my prayers being answered...


I know it's not a 'real' dex, but at least they're keeping us poor SoB (sic) players in mind...

 MWHistorian wrote:
They fixed the problems with making plastic Sisters? Dang, now they'll have to come up with a whole new excuse. The last one lasted a good decade, but it had put up a valiant fight. Let's see...maybe, "We want to do the new plastic Sisters of Battle, but we want to do them justice and get it right, so we're looking for just the right design team to work on them." That should buy them another five years or so.

How about "The failed release of the plastic Witch Elves at 3.5 pounds per model for core proves that people don't want to buy female miniatures. Now, back to making more Space Marine Dreadnoughts!"

 MWHistorian wrote:
They fixed the problems with making plastic Sisters? Dang, now they'll have to come up with a whole new excuse. The last one lasted a good decade, but it had put up a valiant fight. Let's see...maybe, "We want to do the new plastic Sisters of Battle, but we want to do them justice and get it right, so we're looking for just the right design team to work on them." That should buy them another five years or so.

If that's how they felt, then they'd probably just squat them. It seems that GW never actually made a promise to never squat anything again, so they'd be totally free to do that if they didn't want to work on them.

And yet, they're willing to put in the work to make this mini-update.

Squatting sisters would just result in angry neckbeard pickets, and its not like people are queuing upto go into GW stores as it is...

gakky codexes that took mere hours to write, with limited or zero new models will be accepted by the chronically mistreated sisters players out there.

 Troike wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
They fixed the problems with making plastic Sisters? Dang, now they'll have to come up with a whole new excuse. The last one lasted a good decade, but it had put up a valiant fight. Let's see...maybe, "We want to do the new plastic Sisters of Battle, but we want to do them justice and get it right, so we're looking for just the right design team to work on them." That should buy them another five years or so.

If that's how they felt, then they'd probably just squat them. It seems that GW never actually made a promise to never squat anything again, so they'd be totally free to do that if they didn't want to work on them.

And yet, they're willing to put in the work to make this mini-update.

Its odd tough, that they dont support the rules with models. Especialy so since they seem to have a policy not to release any new rules without models to represent it. I think this comes close enough.
If it were not for the fact that FW is not very good at keeping secrets, I would hope that sisters were about to go forgeworld this fall.

One very positive thing we can take from this is that it, IMO, pretty much proves that the Sisters aren't getting folded into another codex. Were that the case, it would be rather pointless spending the effort to update them into 6th as their own codex when another codex would just update them anyway.

 Fayric wrote:
Its odd tough, that they dont support the rules with models.

Reasons for this were already posted ITT. Namely, that it will take a while to get said models made, and they want to wait until the best time financially to do so. This is just a stopgap, not a proper update.

 Fayric wrote:
Especialy so since they seem to have a policy not to release any new rules without models to represent it.

This won't include any new units. Also, just look at the Sisters as they are now. See any models specifically for Celestians, Dominions or Retributors?

 Fayric wrote:
I would hope that sisters were about to go forgeworld this fall.

I sure wouldn't. How would this be a good thing? The Sisters would have their models released slowly and sporadically, would become more obscure and their being a FW army would make them banned from certain tournaments and people could refuse to play them. This would be quite awful, really.

But I doubt that it's what's going to happen anyway. If the plan was to hand them over to FW, why bother with this? Were that the case, they would probably just transfer them over so that they'd never have to work on them again. And yet, they have done this. Why would GW spend the time and money on this only to hand them over to FW?

 Troike wrote:

 Fayric wrote:
I would hope that sisters were about to go forgeworld this fall.

I sure wouldn't. How would this be a good thing? The Sisters would have their models released slowly and sporadically, would become more obscure and their being a FW army would make them banned from certain tournaments and people could refuse to play them. This would be quite awful, really.

But I doubt that it's what's going to happen anyway. If the plan was to hand them over to FW, why bother with this? Were that the case, they would probably just transfer them over so that they'd never have to work on them again. And yet, they have done this. Why would GW spend the time and money on this only to hand them over to FW?

Actually, it's not too far fetched of an idea. If you consider the rumors that Forgeworld is going to become more closely tied to Games Workshop's regular store, and that FW models might be available for order through the store, and how many people are trying to push for the acceptance of Forgeworld models in regular games...

And from a business perspective, FW would be able to make more profit on selling fewer models (that's what they do now) so a niche army like Sisters would fit right in. GW could offer support in the form of a new plastic dual-kit for troops and FW could pick up the rest of the options.

Do I think that's going to happen? Nah.

Sisters of Battle is as unique a force as you can get. Even just from a rules perspective, they're unique, and when so many Space Marine armies dominate the tabletops, 40k could use all the unique armies it can get. Any dilution of that by removing an army from the line, won't help the game at all. Now, folding Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves together would actually be a *good* thing for the game, as it would be easier to update ALL of the Space Marines more quickly, would give all of the Space Marines access to a broader range of kits, and ultimately result in more sales as players of SW, BA, and DA become able to buy things normally only available to the regular SM.

Folding Sisters of Battle into another army does nobody favors.

GW has shuffled stuff off and let FW take it over before (see Chaos Dwarves) but I don't agree with FW's military look for the Sisters, it lacks a certian level of class I think.

Then again I like my 40k being a bit over the top so that that as you will.

ClockworkZion wrote:
GW has shuffled stuff off and let FW take it over before (see Chaos Dwarves) but I don't agree with FW's military look for the Sisters, it lacks a certian level of class I think.

Then again I like my 40k being a bit over the top so that that as you will.

Seconded. Forgeworld sisters are a bit boring.

 pretre wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
GW has shuffled stuff off and let FW take it over before (see Chaos Dwarves) but I don't agree with FW's military look for the Sisters, it lacks a certian level of class I think.

Then again I like my 40k being a bit over the top so that that as you will.

Seconded. Forgeworld sisters are a bit boring.

I think the real issue is it feels like they're trying to basically design them like Marines and that makes me sad.

Yeah, SOB should be OTT and religious. Not marines-lite.

Troike wrote:One very positive thing we can take from this is that it, IMO, pretty much proves that the Sisters aren't getting folded into another codex. Were that the case, it would be rather pointless spending the effort to update them into 6th as their own codex when another codex would just update them anyway.

True. Plus they just got their own section on the website.

Fayric wrote:If it were not for the fact that FW is not very good at keeping secrets, I would hope that sisters were about to go forgeworld this fall.

Ugh.

FW has neither shown much interest in the Sisters as an army (they've got .. what .. the Repressor, and a set of DOORS), nor an understanding of the details of their fluff (Vraks, IA2).
Plus, I'd rather have the army stay Codex-legal, anyways. Even though *I* don't go to GW tournaments, I do like reading about SoB players placing high. And let's not even go into community/LGS acceptance.

pretre wrote:Yeah, SOB should be OTT and religious. Not marines-lite.

They should be a mixture of both, imo.

But where did FW make them "Marines-lite"? Did I miss something? All I read from FW's SoB fluff so far was that the Orders Militant supposedly don't care about Cardinals going rogue (despite this being, y'know, kinda their job) or their members being tortured for months in some lunatic's dungeon until the heroic Astartes can rescue the Damsels in Distress.
Oh, and that SoB supposedly have an Order with blue robes. /rolleyes

The one good piece of fluff they wrote was the Repressor, but amidst all the other stuff and the general neglect it seems like an exception from the rule.

 Lynata wrote:

pretre wrote:Yeah, SOB should be OTT and religious. Not marines-lite.

They should be a mixture of both, imo.

But where did FW make them "Marines-lite"? Did I miss something? All I read from FW's SoB fluff so far was that the Orders Militant supposedly don't care about Cardinals going rogue (despite this being, y'know, kinda their job) or their members being tortured for months in some lunatic's dungeon until the heroic Astartes can rescue the Damsels in Distress.
Oh, and that SoB supposedly have an Order with blue robes. /rolleyes

FW has this thing about pretty much ignoring any really religious aspects of the Sisters.

And I could live with blue robes if there was a justification for it of some kind.

 Lynata wrote:
Oh, and that SoB supposedly have an Order with blue robes. /rolleyes

I'm not entirely sure if you are being sarcastic or not but what is so bad about SoBs with Blue Robes?

 Vain wrote:

 Lynata wrote:
Oh, and that SoB supposedly have an Order with blue robes. /rolleyes

I'm not entirely sure if you are being sarcastic or not but what is so bad about SoBs with Blue Robes?

They wear primarily red, black and/or white armor/robes.

Gotcha!
So no room for splinter factions or anything after the big six?

Vain wrote:I'm not entirely sure if you are being sarcastic or not but what is so bad about SoBs with Blue Robes?

I like to stick with the original fluff of the core GW studio - and that happened to say the Sisters use red, black and white/silver for their heraldry.

It's not widely known as it was only ever pointed out in the painting sections of the codices and WD articles, but I like this sort of detail. And it's a good example to nitpick for how whoever wrote IA2 either didn't know such details or just didn't care. That being said, they pretty much were a no-show in that book anyways - "Forces of the Inquisition", with 90% of the book being Grey Knights and the only SoB things being a pair of Exorcists. Oh well.

Vain wrote:Gotcha!
So no room for splinter factions or anything after the big six?

Not in this fashion (hah!) - the Minor Orders are all offshoots of the six big ones, and their heraldry reflects this.

I think I have a quote somewhere, gimme a sec

[edit]Ah, there we go:

"The uniforms of the Adepta Sororitas are based upon the original garments worn by the Daughters of the Emperor. The Orders of the Ebon Chalice and Valorous Heart display the colours of the original Convents, unchanged for 4.000 years. The other Orders continue this principle with only minor modifications to distinguish them on the battlefield. The Orders Militant make use of three main colours in the design of their uniforms; black, white and red."

However, GW also released a Painting Masterclass article for the SoB to accompany the 3E Codex, which included a colour scheme section where they elaborated a bit on the concept of re-arranging these three "sanctioned" colours for use with a Minor Order, or the option of using completely "Alternate colour schemes":

"Whether you decide to paint your Sisters of Battle in the uniform of one of the major convents or want to create your own using the same heraldry, the same colours and techniques should still prove useful.
Of course, you may simply choose to use a whole new colour scheme from your own imagination. Here are a few examples of dramatically different colour schemes to get the inspiration flowing."
1st pic: Sister in golden armour and red robes
2nd pic: Sister in blue armour and white robes
3rd pic: Sister in yellow armour and red robes
- from WD #292

The wording makes it clear that those combinations aren't really covered by the fluff, but again, that's just me nitpicking.