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 Mr Morden wrote:

It won't likely matter for pick up games but for those who get all up tight about RAW?

That just saves time. A person who would have problem with this is not a person worth playing against in the first place.

You mean they didn't take the time to add two lines to the Army Special Rules section to make that crystal clear? Oh well, spot one of the earliest entries to the FAQ when it gets released.

Troike wrote:So, a big drawback of the previous codex was its lack of flexibility. Generally, we were confined to a few specific builds in order to be competetive. I'm curious about the consensus of the flexibility of this new codex. To me, it seems like we've got some more flexibility, now?

pretre wrote:

 Troike wrote:
To me, it seems like we've got some more flexibility, now?

Yes, there seem to be 2-4 good builds you can make not counting allies so far.

I'm going to disagree with pretre here. Overall, I'd say we lost flexibility.

1. CCS: I know few people ever took them before, but with the loss of Relentless from their AoF, there is no reason to take a heavy weapon based Celestian Command Squad now.
2. Heavy Support: Nerf to PEs (loss of attacks, loss of Battle Frenzy), and AoF nerf means Retributors are sidelined. HS at this point is Exorcist x3.
3. Dominions. AoF is pointless for FlamerMinions, and noone ever took Storm Bolters before (and still won't). I suspect most will be Melta x4.

Sure, some things have become more flexible. The canoness might actually take the field after the Celestein nerf. You can have a ton of Conclaves, Priests are grossly undercosted (free Rosarius for everyone!), and BSS can spam Immolaters in the era that killed RazorSpam. But for fielding actual Adeptus Sororitas? The army lost out.

 streamdragon wrote:
I'm going to disagree with pretre here. Overall, I'd say we lost flexibility.

I'm going to disagree with your disagreement.

 streamdragon wrote:
1. CCS: I know few people ever took them before, but with the loss of Relentless from their AoF, there is no reason to take a heavy weapon based Celestian Command Squad now.

We gained other options though, like the all power weapon wielding CCS who stacks nicely with the Canoness' ability. The AoF is more in line with what the Canoness does and since the AoF are in different phases both can be used in the same turn. This is actually a buff for the Canoness.

 streamdragon wrote:
2. Heavy Support: Nerf to PEs (loss of attacks, loss of Battle Frenzy), and AoF nerf means Retributors are sidelined. HS at this point is Exorcist x3.

Heavy support was already basically Exorcists x3. The loss of the D6+1 attacks means we lost one attack on average, but we're more consistent. Battle Frenzy disappearing was their real nerf but dropping 5 points makes that more consistent. I don't know many people who didn't run triple Exorcists as is, but I do want to point out that Retributors with rending Heavy Bolters were just too cheap. At least all three of their heavies are the same cost now so the Rending Heavy Flamer option is 40 points cheaper than it was before.

 streamdragon wrote:
3. Dominions. AoF is pointless for FlamerMinions, and noone ever took Storm Bolters before (and still won't). I suspect most will be Melta x4.

Most suggestions for Dominions I've seen where alpha-striking enemy tanks with them so this works fine for me. It just means that Leman Russ behind an Aegis can be more easilly killed now.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Heavy support was already basically Exorcists x3. […] but I do want to point out that Retributors with rending Heavy Bolters were just too cheap.

I just don't understand what you mean. You just seem to contradict yourself ! And I did play one exorcist and one heavy bolter squad.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Heavy support was already basically Exorcists x3. […] but I do want to point out that Retributors with rending Heavy Bolters were just too cheap.

I just don't understand what you mean. You just seem to contradict yourself ! And I did play one exorcist and one heavy bolter squad.

They were 19 points per Rending Heavy Bolter and you could have 4. That option was too cheap for what we were running and I'm pretty sure everyone knew it. If you took Retributors you didn't even look at the other options because of how dang inexpensive that was

As for the Exorcists, most lists I've seen, had at least 2 if not 3 of the things. They've been our go-to heavy support since C:WH and it's actually surprising it got cheaper.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Heavy support was already basically Exorcists x3. […] but I do want to point out that Retributors with rending Heavy Bolters were just too cheap.

I just don't understand what you mean. You just seem to contradict yourself ! And I did play one exorcist and one heavy bolter squad.

It's only a contradiction if the two statements are actually opposing each other. HB Retributors were too cheap for what they rocked and Exorcists have been the primary go-to Heavy Support for most players. No contradictions here.

I ran 3 Exorcists in 90% of my games, occasionally I ran a rending Heavy Bolter squad to shake it up... Not that it was much of a shakeup! Now my games will be 90% 3 Exorcists and a 4 Heavy Flamer squad occasionally.

Anyone who tried to play Sisters competitively since their chapter approved article when they got exorcists has run 3. The change to retributers is actually like their WD list pre-chapter approved

Even under Codex Witch Hunters most of us who tried to run competitive lists ran 3 Exorcists...

 streamdragon wrote:
I'm going to disagree with pretre here. Overall, I'd say we lost flexibility.

1. CCS: I know few people ever took them before, but with the loss of Relentless from their AoF, there is no reason to take a heavy weapon based Celestian Command Squad now.
2. Heavy Support: Nerf to PEs (loss of attacks, loss of Battle Frenzy), and AoF nerf means Retributors are sidelined. HS at this point is Exorcist x3.
3. Dominions. AoF is pointless for FlamerMinions, and noone ever took Storm Bolters before (and still won't). I suspect most will be Melta x4.

Sure, some things have become more flexible. The canoness might actually take the field after the Celestein nerf. You can have a ton of Conclaves, Priests are grossly undercosted (free Rosarius for everyone!), and BSS can spam Immolaters in the era that killed RazorSpam. But for fielding actual Adeptus Sororitas? The army lost out.

No one took CCS because they were expensive and had a canoness tax. Guess what? Canoness are good now and command squads can spam heavies or specials or power weapons and give great buffs to the army. Hence, much better.
PEs have always sucked. Retributors are more reliable and got the easy bake oven back. I can't tell you how many times I failed my 4+ or 5+ AOF for rets. Having it be on Ld 9 or higher depending on my army is awesome. Also, HS has almost always been Exo x3 except for rare corner cases like bastion lists.
Dominions aren't the flamer guys anymore. They are the ignore cover melta guys. We lost flexibility to gain power here. On the other hand, Seraphim and Celestians both make good flamers as do BSS since HF got cheap as hell And you got the easy bake oven in HQ and Heavy, if you want it. We are not lacking for flamers anymore.

Expand your ideas of what a good sisters list is. We just got a lot more options.

Hello,

I am writing to you to seek a refund for my purchase of the epub / mobi version of the new Codex Adepta Sororitas. I purchased this version in order to be able to view it in different formats, however having seen the low quality of the production I am utterly appalled and think this is the most unprofessional piece of penmanship I've ever seen from any company. In order to prove that I am not simply seeking a free download, please see the itunes receipt below. I was so disorientated by the various empty pages, tables crossing multiple pages and general low quality of the document I felt I had to spend an additional £25 just to view the Codex.

I purchased the eBook edition on 11/10/13 with order number ******. Please let me know how and when I will receive my refund.

Many thanks,

pretre wrote:Canoness are good now

Hum, what ? Did I miss something ?

@Still Standing: I'd put that in quote tags and give us some context to for that next time.

And I'm quite curious to hear the answer if there is one.

Makes me glad I got the iPad one.

Oddly enough I've found out that the ebook one doesn't include the Seraphim Superior in who can take an Eviscerator on the wargear list while she is included in the iPad's annotation for the same thing. (and her options is weird in the first place since she doesn't have real access to the melee weapons list anyways).

Lots of people are bitching about flamer dominions being nerfed.

IMO 5 dominions with 4 flamers and an unused ignore cover AoF better than 2 flamers with AoF TL that's unreliable.

Even though I consider flamer dominions improved 4 Ignore cover melta guns is even better. The problem isn't that the unit sucks, it's that it competes against something better in the force org slot.

The only bad thing I can say about dominions is they bleed kill points like crazy in the scouring if they are used for a suicidal alpha strike, but I guess they can always outflank instead.

That's a great point. 4 Flamers is better than 2 flamers twin linked.

schadenfreude wrote:IMO 5 dominions with 4 flamers and an unused ignore cover AoF better than 2 flamers with AoF TL that's unreliable.

4+ rerollable is not reallty unreliable, and 5 flamers 10 bolters twin-linked is WAY better to clear off an objective than just 5 flamers not twin-linked. I guess I could use two squads of 5 flame-throwers to get even better results but… oh wait, no, I have already burned up all my other FA choices. How strange ? On the other hand, I got plenty of room for Elite slots, HQ slots, and troops slot.

So what is the new fluff, that the ads spoke of?

 Still Standing wrote:
Hello,

I am writing to you to seek a refund for my purchase of the epub / mobi version of the new Codex Adepta Sororitas. I purchased this version in order to be able to view it in different formats, however having seen the low quality of the production I am utterly appalled and think this is the most unprofessional piece of penmanship I've ever seen from any company. In order to prove that I am not simply seeking a free download, please see the itunes receipt below. I was so disorientated by the various empty pages, tables crossing multiple pages and general low quality of the document I felt I had to spend an additional £25 just to view the Codex.

I purchased the eBook edition on 11/10/13 with order number ******. Please let me know how and when I will receive my refund.

Many thanks,

the reason for the empty pages is because that's how epub is. it makes its own page breaks depending on how much fits on the screen and the editor added page breaks also apparently. when you zoom out as far as you can (making the text as small as possible) you get a better idea what the the editor intended the page to look like.

 Kroothawk wrote:
So what is the new fluff, that the ads spoke of?

All the Sisters who died in the Bloodtide are now honored martyrs.

They expanded on the Major Orders and gave some lines about the flexibility of Minor Orders. They also listed some of their battles and victories. Minor stuff, but nice.

There were also some new quotes (at least I assume they were new). I liked the one where an Immolator fries some Warp Spiders while they were busy being arrogant behind some ruins. The units also had their fluff expanded a bit, a prime example being how Seraphim Superiors are highly respected within their Order.

 Troike wrote:
The units also had their fluff expanded a bit, a prime example being how Seraphim Superiors are highly respected within their Order.

Erm ... you consider that an expansion of fluff?
Well, maybe considering the lack of respect shown by GW: Seraphim Superiors still not available in Europe.

You know, Kroot would know these things if he'd read the book instead of waiting for people to tell him about it

 ClockworkZion wrote:
You know, Kroot would know these things if he'd read the book instead of waiting for people to tell him about it

Hey, I am not that dumb to buy this ... product.

And I don't own an IPad or tablet and won't take a computer to a gaming event. I wait until they get a real release.

 Kroothawk wrote:

Erm ... you consider that an expansion of fluff?

Read my post again. I was giving it as an example for my point about unit fluff being added to, and that in turn was meant as an addition to what others had posted above.

So yes, plenty of new fluff in there.

Troike wrote:So yes, plenty of new fluff in there.

I wouldn't say plenty. I would say tiny piece of new fluff sparkled around


This made me laugh :

 Kroothawk wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
You know, Kroot would know these things if he'd read the book instead of waiting for people to tell him about it

Hey, I am not that dumb to buy this ... product.

And I don't own an IPad or tablet and won't take a computer to a gaming event. I wait until they get a real release.

Ones willingingness to purchase the current rules for their army is not a test of ones intelligence but their willingness to adapt and change with the times.

You can print the eBook, it's in the ToS so that is just an excuse anyways.

So after reading the codex, I think my next unit shall be a command squad. They seem to be a viable choice now, and I've just been itching to model and paint some Celestians. Ideally, I'm going to have them all helmeted with a fleur adorning the helmet, along with the helmet markings they had in Soulstorm. I may have to resort to gouging some heads off (if that's even possible to do well with these metal models), but I think I'll have a lot of fun making them.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I wouldn't say plenty. I would say tiny piece of new fluff sparkled around


This made me laugh :

Spoiler: