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Now that the new codex is out and games have been played, I am wondering if they have moved up, down, or stayed the same in power rankings. Before the codex drop, They were mid-tier army and Tau, Eldar, and Necrons had been considered the top tier groups.

Still mid-tier.

There are official power rankings? or just a perception that the newest book is killing everything just because it is new?

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
There are official power rankings? or just a perception that the newest book is killing everything just because it is new?

LOL no. Just opinions of what armies are considered better than others given their rules/cost/etc.

so what is your point? did they get better? probably.

They got better, but did they get better enough to become top tier? Probably no. GW have decided 6th edition is Xenos edition, and despite having 6th ed codices there are no Spess Mehreens in the top tier of competitive armies (Though sometimes Grey Knights manage to sneak in as Necron allies).

I am not trying to make any point. I am just curious that, after games have been played with the new codex, did the army progress out of the middle-of-the-road pack of armies in people's opinion. My local meta is limited to playing against mostly Tau so my experience is somewhat skewed.

Marines alone. Mid tier.
Marines with Tau allies.... well, that's a different story.

With out a mc of are own marines are still a army. In the age of gun line armies we don't stand a chance as we we can't make are own gunline.

Well Marines definitely went up, I'd argue that they at least passed DA in the power rankings.

SM are excellent. As a stand alone codex I would put them up near Tau with eldar and nidz being the top. The problem being that all the top armies other than nidz are allied forces. Therefore SM+allies is the real question. With Tau or IG allies they are near the Taudar and Chaos Crons and should compete just fine.

SM counter the MC trend, and have all the tools they need to win games.

While not IG, nercon or GK tier brokenness (5th ed problems) they are probably the 2nd best 6th book, with tau being first.

Now that's just army book, not how they handle on the field.

People are still working out the combos and builds, so its still a bit early to tell. C:SM is not as obvious as Eldar and Tau were, as chapter tactics makes some units far more useful then they would be by themselves, and given the number of chapter tactics, its going to take bit longer.

I'm probably completely talking out of my @$$ here, but for some reason, I can't help but shake the feeling that the Centurions (both varieties) will be the unit that people find ways to swing the pendulum. Just the one game I've been able to play showed me how powerful the simple 3-man squad with grav-cannons can be in general conditions, once you throw in transports to close the distance for the relatively short ranged weapons, things could get hairy (albeit it very expensive). Also, while the assault version looks fugly as all get out, you can't deny the impact of 10-16 S9, AP2 hits at initiative rolling out of a Landraider, even though the target selection is a bit sketchy.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
so what is your point? did they get better? probably.

They did get definitively better by a large margin with this new codex. Can they overpower the Tau? With equal skill players, equal luck, no. With the previous factors, but the marine player being a bit better, yeah.

It is way too early to tell. I recall there was a solid month after Tau came out where people thought they weren't good. Space Marines need more competitive testing than they've currently had. Give it a few weeks and a GT or two and we'll see, but now we can't say. I think they went up from lower mid tier to lower top tier personally. Basically every list they used to do competitively can now be done cheaper or with some other added benefits.

How do they deal with mc there is no way to reliable way for them to take down any mc . i can't began to explain how many times 2riptides have destroyed over half my army and i never got more then a few wounds on them. also all the nid mc that you can't kill ether

zilka86 wrote:
How do they deal with mc there is no way to reliable way for them to take down any mc . i can't began to explain how many times 2riptides have destroyed over half my army and i never got more then a few wounds on them. also all the nid mc that you can't kill ether

Grav Weapons?

Lascannons, melta, plasma guns, krak grenades, meltabombs, powerfists, snipers..

Bolters can down most MCs, and the T8 ones are still plenty vulnerable to assault cannons , heavy bolters etc.

Force enough saves and the MC is going to die.


You have heap more options than some codexes.

Will they automatically kill, stuff and mount any MC without fail, before it gets to respond? No.

Nor should they.

I'm not buy centuries as there ugly. And still dont reliable kill any mc. are lack off not having are own mc to counter other mc is are problem. also not able to make a good gun line is a nother problem lack of having and good vehicles is a nother problem as i won't use them as ther unreliable only landriders are good but i really don't feel like buying 3of them


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have tryed all of that and nothing works it takes way to many shots to kill it by that time it has killed my unit shooting at it

What is your definition of reliably kill?

My Daemon and DE MCs don't last long against marines as a rule. Riptides and similar are very resilient, but cost a ton of points. They aren't supposed to go down easily.

Marines have ok vehicles. Not as sexy as the Eldar or Necron ones, but light years better than orks, most DE, most CSM, Daemons...

 ansacs wrote:
SM are excellent. As a stand alone codex I would put them up near Tau with eldar and nidz being the top. The problem being that all the top armies other than nidz are allied forces. Therefore SM+allies is the real question. With Tau or IG allies they are near the Taudar and Chaos Crons and should compete just fine.

Nids being the top...

Reliable i would like them to last longer then a trun our two i use to run with 2rhinos and 2preds and non of them make it to trun 3ur 4

jifel wrote:It is way too early to tell. I recall there was a solid month after Tau came out where people thought they weren't good. Space Marines need more competitive testing than they've currently had. Give it a few weeks and a GT or two and we'll see, but now we can't say. I think they went up from lower mid tier to lower top tier personally. Basically every list they used to do competitively can now be done cheaper or with some other added benefits.

Agreed, something interesting might pop up down the line, but I don't see how anything in power armor can be even remotely top tier competitive in the current meta game.

ansacs wrote:SM are excellent. As a stand alone codex I would put them up near Tau with eldar and nidz being the top. The problem being that all the top armies other than nidz are allied forces. Therefore SM+allies is the real question. With Tau or IG allies they are near the Taudar and Chaos Crons and should compete just fine.

Nids? Top? lewl? Nids might be able to make a stretch at the upper tier if DE, GK and SW didn't exist....but they do. Having a hard counter, or 3, basically means that you aren't top tier...period. Nids are basically the middle of the mid-tier.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:Well Marines definitely went up, I'd argue that they at least passed DA in the power rankings.

Agreed. Better than DA at least, since the bike lists are comparable, the DA terminator lists is....poor, and I feel the "generic-wing" tactical based army is better on the vanilla side of things. That said, I think the DA codex is being somewhat propped up by the Standard of Devastation.

labmouse42 wrote:Marines alone. Mid tier.
Marines with Tau allies.... well, that's a different story.

The real question is...are Tau bringing marine up by combining in an interesting and unique way, or are marines bringing Tau "down" and you'd be better off with a pure Tau army? I think primary Tau are better personally, so marines would be propped up via the strength of the Tau allies.

IMO, they got better, but the inherent failings of power armor in 6th edition will limit them from seriously challenging the current top tier of Eldar, Tau and Demons/IG/Necrons.

zilka86 wrote:
Reliable i would like them to last longer then a trun our two i use to run with 2rhinos and 2preds and non of them make it to trun 3ur 4

So just like everyone else's vehicles then. My ork and DE Vehicles are lucky to last long enough for me to use them at all. Often they don't even get a turn 1.

I was actually asking what you meant by reliably killing a MC. MC are expensive fire magnets, so they tend to be tough to kill to compensate.

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 ansacs wrote:
SM are excellent. As a stand alone codex I would put them up near Tau with eldar and nidz being the top. The problem being that all the top armies other than nidz are allied forces. Therefore SM+allies is the real question. With Tau or IG allies they are near the Taudar and Chaos Crons and should compete just fine.

Nids being the top...

Nids are such a hard army to rank at the moment. I've seen players (besides myself) smash through the top meta lists with a well run Nid list, but it just isn't common. They lend themselves too much to a unique style of play, that frankly takes a long time to get used to. Few players actually go threw the process (or are naturally quick enough) to pick it up and play them hardcore. Based on my own personal experience, I think they should be lower top-tier or higher mid-tier, but then once you look at the final rankings of various GTs, Nids look like a lower Mid-tier or even low tier army.

I think PrinceRavens point though is that every top army now uses allies except Nids. We do sometimes see one strong Nid player doing very well in a tournament, but everyone else uses allies. (Although frankly, the only army I would want to ally with is Dark Angels.)

If ther was i way to kill mc in go i be happy but you can spend the hole game shooting at them and thers a good chance the will still not die mc are just to tough

My point is more that there are too many difficult matchups for Tyranids for them to be considered top tier. Playing against multiple Rune Pirest Space Wolves, Tau, Eldar and, of course, Dark Eldar is always an uphill struggle for Nids if the opponent is reasonably skilled and has a well-built list. Compare that to the current top tier (Tau, Eldar, Necrons & maybe Daemons) who will have an advantage or be on an even playing field against the vast majority of their opponents.

zilka86 wrote:
I'm not buy centuries as there ugly. And still dont reliable kill any mc. are lack off not having are own mc to counter other mc is are problem. also not able to make a good gun line is a nother problem lack of having and good vehicles is a nother problem as i won't use them as ther unreliable only landriders are good but i really don't feel like buying 3of them

Try bike squads with 2x grav guns or legion of the damned with gravgun, combi-grav, and a multi melta/plasma cannon. Either of those will deal some serious pain to any MC.


@Thread
Notice I said stand alone dex. They rank below eldar but above Tau (Tau alone can't capture outfield objectives well enough). Though I could certainly agree that necrons could be higher. There is one build that is good (2x Flyrant+spammed Tervigons). With this build and a good player that understands this build they are top tier level. Though honestly allied armies edge them out of top tier almost completely in tournaments. DE are not a hard counter to nids, I hear it all the time but the poor AP on the guns just doesn't do it. GK are more of a counter however you are thinking of horde nids if you think that.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
My point is more that there are too many difficult matchups for Tyranids for them to be considered top tier. Playing against multiple Rune Pirest Space Wolves, Tau, Eldar and, of course, Dark Eldar is always an uphill struggle for Nids if the opponent is reasonably skilled and has a well-built list. Compare that to the current top tier (Tau, Eldar, Necrons & maybe Daemons) who will have an advantage or be on an even playing field against the vast majority of their opponents.

We are hard countered by SW with Drop Pods and multipe Priests. Even then we have Shadows protection, but thats still hard. However, SW are becoming increasingly less popular, with DA and SM updates. DE likewise are decent against us, but as a solo army they still get crunched by Flyrants and Biovores (neither of which they have an answer to) And again are extremely rare. They're potent as an ally to Eldar, but... Eldar may as well take Tau, who are usually better.

I don't think Eldar or Tau are hard counters to Nids. Focus out Markerlights and Tau have a real hard time with multiple MCs. You just HAVE to kill those Markerlights! Eldar also can suffer. Those pseudo rending weapons are almost never in range on their infantry, and they sure as heck aren't getting out just to shoot. Eldar and Tau are good, but Nids are fairly balanced against both I think.

I never said "hard counter", I just said it's an uphill battle.